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Castaneda and Magick

 
  

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ciarconn
21:33 / 05.08.02
I attended some workshops with a woman that supposedly had studied tensegrity in a Castaneda workshop (Before the book was published). the exercises we did were no exactly the same on the book. Honestly, I did not follow the exercises on that time because I was also training Muay thai. I might them that now. The workshop lasted a week, and I did feel... different.
 
 
Papess
16:05 / 20.08.02
*bump*

Some quotes from DJ:

"I have been saying this over and over to you, and you think that I am merely repeating myself. I know how difficult it is for the mind to allow mindless possibilities to become real. But new worlds exist! They are wrapped one around another, like the skins of an onion. The world we exist in is but one of those worlds" ~Don Juan

Ahh, The Holiest of Holies, the onion.

"To seek freedom is the only driving force I know. Freedom to fly off into that infinity out there. Freedom to dissolve; to lift off; to be like the flame of a candle, which, in spite of being up against the light of a billion stars, remains intact, because it never pretended to be more than it really was: a mere candle" ~Don Juan

Freedom horrible freedom?

Thought for food.

May Tricks
 
 
Sebastian
17:40 / 22.08.02
May, those were two of the favourite quotes I kept running and running in my mind. The other was that of the warrior's mantra, "I propose that you do one nonsensical thing that might turn the tide. Repeat to yourself incessantly that the hinge of sorcery is the mystery of the assemblage point. ", and a most misterious and intriguing one, "When sorcerers talk about molding one's life situation they mean molding the awareness of being alive. Through molding this awareness, we can get enough energy to reach and sustain the energy body, and with it we can certainly mold the total direction and consequences of our lives.".
 
 
Sebastian
17:49 / 22.08.02
Rex wrote Anyone tried Toltec Tai Chi aka Tensegrity

I practiced at home for a while. The most notable effect was that I started feeling during the day sensations at the energy centers the passes supposeddly address, spleen (left lower ribs), gallbladder (right lower ribs) and adrenal glands (lumbar dorsum). They were neither unpleasant nor pleasant, just intriguing to feel them there for a few seconds and then they vanished. Like a warm electric pulse. The one in the adrenals was however sort of an inaudible pop!. They would occur at any time in no pattern, twice or threee times a day. That was all. Nothing else reportable. I got bored out of the passes quite quickly, especially considering I was doing them alone, and following the instructions while trying to find "my own way" to do them was driving me nuts.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
21:02 / 23.08.02
"I propose that you do one nonsensical thing that might turn the tide. Repeat to yourself incessantly that the hinge of sorcery is the mystery of the assemblage point. "

The wonders of not-doings. Don Juan taught that death stalks you and that is how we meet our demise.By not doings, we change one thing in our daily routine, we make it that much harder to be snagged by mortality.Coffee instead of tea.Taking the bus to work instead of driving. Turning left instead of write.These deviations open a whole new world for us on a daily basis.By applying these techniques, I have been allowed to play witness to some incredible synchronicities and oddities on a daily basis. So much so that it is A normal occourance and I thank power for that gift.The world is what you make it...and it will always talk back to you.

Think of the assemblage point like the dial on a radio...we have been stuck on the same station for our entire existence.The shifting of the assembelage point by the sorcerer's blow/bodily trauma/willpower shifts our awareness to whole new worlds/ widens our bandwidth.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
21:24 / 23.08.02
In reference to Tensegrity:

I was exposed to the first tensegrity tape about 6 years ago. I watched as CC's Chakmols(spelling?) performed the excercises. ( A side note: Anyone ever notice how much the lead chakmol looks like switch from the Matrix?)
At one point in the tape,they were doing this breathing excercise that concluded with a hard clap above the head. At the point of the clap, I barely noticed what appeared to be a beam of energy shooting straight up to the sky...I kid you not. In fact, I think May can testify to that as well. It intrigued me but I am such a lazy fuck that my experiences with Tensegrity has been minimal apart from theory.
And that's what makes me a wizard.Theory,not practice...LOL
 
 
Vainamoinen
12:37 / 24.08.02
Here

A fellow countryman of mine I believe walks a high path.

-= Vainamoinen an t'Fionn =-
 
 
Papess
14:48 / 27.08.02
Okay, wondering what others think of this idea.

Inorganic beings: the unveilled gods and idolatry of mankind.

According to Dj, these Inorganic beings touch our lives in such a similar way to the benevolent gods and goddesses we have over the eons, given so much power to. They hear our prayers and wishes and grant our wants and desires....we continue to worship and adore them. We feel like we got what we wanted and they get our energy/awareness.

Inorganic beings appearing to those who do not "see" energy (for what it is, in it's purest form) as wish-granting, omnipotent beings. Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

*gets a big box to throw out the knick-knacks on the altar*

Guess I won't be needing those, unless I am way offside here.

~May
 
 
ciarconn
16:07 / 28.08.02
"Inorganic beings: the unveilled gods and idolatry of mankind.
Inorganic beings appearing to those who do not "see" energy (for what it is, in it's purest form) as wish-granting, omnipotent beings. Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?"

It may be a bit more complex. Yes, inorganics take advantage of us, one way or another, yes, when one does not see, one sees them through the eyes of our unconscious desires. The logical question here is, what is invocated in some chaos magik rituals? The inorganics?
I do not believe so. the rituals and godforms serve to channel and give form to our intent. The godforms are projections of our mind that give form to our power. The allies and familiars (and maybe the servitors) are other thing

On another point, I finished Castaneda´s book some time ago, but was chewing on the info. The flyers give sense to everything that lacked sense in CC´s system. It makes everytihng fit so nicely it´s almost scary. The idea of the flyers is scary itself. Good one. More on this later.

There is a ritual in central Mexico called los voladores de Papantla (the Papantla flyers, papantla being a place). Curiously, the four dancers hang from their feet to a pole, and they spin around, descending from the pole as their ropes un"spin". Kinda like making their blood gor from their feet to their head... or their energy.

Yesterday I finally found the Wheel of time, might start to read it the weekend.

My life is getting scary too. A Castanedian workshop i attended 13 years ago is being repeated. My wife might go. My father in law made friendship with a wiccan , and some of my friends might go to Guatemala to go through a shamanic ceremony with halucinogen.
And I am comfortably sitting in front of a computer

Nice life
 
 
Papess
16:50 / 01.09.02
This concept I brought up of the Inorganic beings actually projecting themselves into our world as godforms has given me a bit of an inner conflict. DJ never speaks of godforms or deities to my rcollection ans I am wondering...why not? He does state this about inorganic beings though.....

"Inorganic beings can't force anyone to stay with them...To live in their world is a voluntary affair. Yet, they are capable of imprisoning any one of us by catering to our desires, by pampering and indulging us. Beware of awareness that is immobile. Awareness like that has to seek movement, and it does this, as I've told you, by creating projections, phantasmagorical projections at times." ~Don Juan, The Art of Dreaming; page 99

This is leading me to wonder if the Inorganic beings, needing a steady source of energy, imprisoned us all. Maybe we are already living in one of those tunnels, fully furnished to our specifications and needs. Ohh, this is sounding familiar....red pill, RED PILL MORPHEUS PASS THE RED PILL PLEASE!!!!

On your point about the flyers ciarconn, which book is that in? I have an obsession with being upside-down, doing handstands often. I think I would looove that ritual, los voladores de Papantla. How cool it would be to hang upside-down and be spinning around, I know I have dreamed of doing this before.

~May

~
 
 
ciarconn
01:10 / 02.09.02
It does not appear in any book (ant least, none of CC's). Papantla s a little town in the state of Michoacan, I believe. The flyers' ritual is presented in most places in Mexico, but it is done by people who train for it. It's supposed that they traind physically and spiritually. Only men perform it. They go into a trance while they perform the ritual (i have seen some of them drinking charanda, a strong alcoholic beverage). Though my wife pointed to me that there is a TV add where a woman performs the ritual (while expereincing it as bungee) and then drinks a soda. Let me try to find more info on it. I always suspected some esoteric symbolism (four dancers hanging, one standing on the pole, leading the trance with a drum and a flute, they spin around) but I always linked it with classical mythologies (aztec directions of the universe), but only recently linked it with Castanedian parties structures (the center as the nagual, the four planets, etc)
 
 
Sebastian
13:10 / 02.09.02
"We are being invaded by beings from a dozen galaxies." (Forgot the quoted chap's name)

I personally take it that "inorganics" is a label used for anything with awareness of being (another ego nutsos saying "I-am- this-I-am-not-that") that is, or "are", beyond our own rigid spacetime-gravity-Earth-solar-system of perception. I also think that the "inorganic" beings the toltecs deal with are a distinct "breed", but this is because I am prone to believe that each of us is conditioned from the start to "perceive" a specific kind of "inorganic" beings, call it throught affinity, empathy, karma, neurology, programming, genetics, whatever, and this goes from an individual to a collective level, and, of course, it can be changed as you broaden your perception.

About gods, deities, well, back to basics for myself, maybe they are gods from the point of view they can do things "here" we attribute to gods: change our spacetime perceptions, abduct people, synchronice events, after all, what is a god supposed to do? I have forgotten already, but I think they are supposed to create cosmogonies, universes, modify them at will, cast storms, erupt volcanoes, create watefalls. And I really think anyone naming himself a God is in deep ego trouble.

I am optimistic however, as Don Juan maybe, because I like the notion of hibrydising with them. You know, if these beings can do things here that we equal to godhood, I think we can get the same, or at least a similar, "spacetime perception software" and start doing such things. Of course, this would involve "dying" a little bit in our own life time, which is what the warrior's path is all about. The notion of hibrydising is somewhat developed in The Active Side of Inifnity as an option for sorcerers at the moment they die, with a different terminology.

I think that "magical beings", as Don Juan, or anybody you can think of as "magical", are to an extent already hibrydised. We think of them as being less "real" than ordinary people as they cast "magical" occurrences and operate in "magical" terms, and although we see them much alive, ordinary people do tend to see them as a little more "dead" and definitely "un-real". So, if someone starts wondering if you are real or not, then, at least for him, you have become a little bit "magical" to an extent. If he comes to think you are "dead", then, at least for him, you are.
 
 
ciarconn
13:35 / 02.09.02
Funny you use the word hybridizing.

It reminded me of the blue scout. (Which I believe appears in the art of dreaming) An inorganic being that end up taking an organic form (and being part of CC´s party).

It is very interesting that DJ finally explains what happens after the burning awareness, after the final jump. they become a form of inorganic being, not bound by this organic, limited form. The human being as we know it is only a larval state, for the butterfly of conscioussness. And wea re kept off that meta-state by the flyers, who feed from our misery.

Thus, the problem of mortality is eliminated by not having anything to die with. The coincidence with the taoist ideas is amazing in this point.
 
 
Papess
13:49 / 02.09.02


~MT
 
 
Papess
13:52 / 02.09.02
I am just joking around in my last post.

Can someone explain the Flyers to me. Ya lost me.

~MT
 
 
ciarconn
14:04 / 02.09.02
CC explains them in his last book. The idea is that there are some inorganic biengs that feed off our energy, mainly through our ego. So they manipulate humanity into growing the ego, to have better food.
Basically, the way of the warrior serves to make us bad tasting to them, so they leave us alone and allow us to grow into higher stages of spiritual evolution. CC claims to have seen them and how they feed on us.
 
 
Sebastian
14:37 / 02.09.02
They are also supposed to have given us what we identify with our "mind". It is a very interesting and multi-faceted topic. They are also "the means by which the universe tests us.".

May, for the extended thing you may want to see Mace's trascript of The Active Side of Infinity, and on that page search ([CTRL]+[F]) for the inspiring phrase

"They discovered that we have a companion for life. We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives.".

What follows is the whole topic explained, although it is also hinted at from the beginning of the book.

And get out of that saucer.
 
 
Papess
14:43 / 02.09.02
Thank you for the link Seb.

*pokes head out of inter-stellar vehicle*
I guess I am just being saucy!

~MT
 
 
Papess
15:29 / 02.09.02
This is so awesome. Had to post this quote.

Your malady is a very simple one: your world is coming to an end. It is the end of an era for you. Do you think that the world you have known all your life is going to leave you peacefully, without any fuss or muss? No! It will wriggle underneath you, and hit you with its tail.


goddamn beasties.

~MT
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
17:56 / 02.09.02
Can someone explain the Flyers to me. Ya lost me

Aw, come now May...

I remember coming across reference to the flyers in Art Of Dreaming ( I think) or Active Side of Infinity- One of those.Also in transcripts of CC's seminars I believe...over @ cleargreen...

But really. Try to remember...

xoxo
 
 
Papess
18:59 / 02.09.02
Oh Rex, now you sound just like HIM!



My how the tables have turned! hehehe...hohoho...hahaha

Yes Rex, I will go away and actually try to think for myself.

The laziest sorceress on the planet will now go and take her seat and stop bothering the class.

*slinks off to the back of the class*

Just wait till I get my homework done!

~MT
 
 
Sebastian
19:40 / 02.09.02
~May wrote: DJ never speaks of godforms or deities to my recollection and I am wondering...why not?

Well, maybe I can invite anybody to expand on that. What do you think would be the relation of the assemblage point, a God, and a warrior?
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
02:05 / 06.09.02
...why not?

Because the warriors path™ is a solitary one.The ideal is to not invest any personal power in anything that can capture our awareness Don Juan/CC was/is trying to teach us to achieve the totality of one's self. Inorganic beings? Gah. The mist in your dreams that your mind can't name - searches the database of your brain for an identity to fit - be it Godforms, Dead Relatives or Madonna.
The shifting of the assembelage point to different bands of awareness - from my experience and IMHO is much like those dreams you have where you are at one location and instantly some where else...there is nothing gradual about it.
(On a side note: I wonder if the movement of the body, like flipping over in your sleep, produces enough bodily trauma to shift the point...hence the dream teleportation)
Inorganic beings are everywhere. It only takes a minute shift in the assembelage point to percieve them.
Anyways, that's my rant.
Oh, and I wasn't chastising you @ all May.Heh.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
02:10 / 06.09.02
I forgot to mention that this is the importance of dream control and why Don Juan emphesizes it - again, so that nothing will be able to capture/devour our awareness, be it in Here/Tonal or There/Nagual.

Gah, I'm baked.

 
 
Papess
10:49 / 06.09.02
Well put my dear friend.

I was just joking around. I know you didn't mean to be nasty or anything.

Geez Rex, all that time I thought you weren't paying attention! I am so impressed with you!

You tickle my tonal Rex {{{hugs}}}

~MT
 
 
Papess
14:40 / 06.09.02
I think the subject of the aloneness of the Warrior's path has come up a few times. I think that clarifying this would be helpful.

I just don't get the feeling that DJ is talking about cutting ourselves off from all contact (as an extreme example) but, more that there is no dire need to be reliant upon anyone.

There is the idea of households which, would constitute individual warriors to be in cahoots with one another. This of course, does not have to mean dependance though.

Funny, I saw this quote today right after I read what you wrote Rex.

It is a fact that in the right formation, the lifting power of many wings can achieve twice the distance of any bird flying alone.

I do not known who said this but, it seemed to be suitable. I wa even thinking of this whole concept when I saw it.

Being solitairy/independant/self-sufficient...etc, does not have to mean alone. We are all just a part of the whole anyway, isn't our freedom gained partly by accepting that?

~MT
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
01:49 / 07.09.02


On another note, since I just thought of it...

HAs anyone ever looked at the comparisons between the temporal lobe and the assembelage point? Just something that has been buubling beneath for a while...
 
 
Sebastian
03:01 / 08.09.02
May, at least for myself, it is quite cear in the books that Don Juan could not even breath without Carlos, or at least without ensuring he would have him back.

Solitude in the warrior's path I take is meant to be gathered for the last thing you do in life: you die. Oh, I do yearn for that type of solitude, just the sardonic, empty eyed skull and myself.

Rex, you are a lovely chap, didya know?
 
 
ciarconn
11:41 / 08.09.02
"HAs anyone ever looked at the comparisons between the temporal lobe and the assembelage point? Just something that has been buubling beneath for a while... "

Please, could you expand this idea?
 
 
Papess
15:51 / 09.09.02
Sebastian wrote:
May, at least for myself, it is quite cear in the books that Don Juan could not even breath without Carlos, or at least without ensuring he would have him back.

I am not sure what you mean by this Sebastian,. Could you elaborate?

~MT
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
19:25 / 09.09.02
Aw shucks...

Thanks Sebastian. You are an impressive suit yourself...be warned, I am following your career...

May, I think Sebastian was saying that Don Juan was lonely, much like our mentor, who would share his Tales of Power in order to keep him coming back for more...or maybe not.Ha.

The temporal lobe idea was something that came to me after reading Invisibles and the mention of Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.(sp?) It is one of those unstructured ideas that I was tossing out here to try and gather more info and draw some conclussions. I am researching it now and I will return with my findings.
ReXXX
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
22:29 / 09.09.02
The Temporal Lobe


A little googling...
Got this...
and this...
and How Stuff Works.

Read up and lets talk...
 
 
Sebastian
12:46 / 10.09.02
Oh no, uncle Rex is giving us homework. At least I finally found a picture of the sensory homunculus, I went crazy looking for one because I wanted to put it in a thread at the head shop I think about kissing, pitty there is no mention of what the colors mean.

Rex, since you like neurosciences, if you read any book by Oliver Sacks I guarantee your brain will be blown to the stars, unless you already have and you are typing from Orion.

Don Juan was a lonely being, yes, as Rex also mentions, and in this sense the warrior does embody the premise that human individuals indeed live in separate islands of perception and are shouting at each other through entire oceans, but for us and Carlos it is not possible to conceive Don Juan, or any sorcerer if thats the case, alone. The path of the warrior involves bonding with pairs, even if they perceive they are being used as staircase steps, and form the position of their AP, sometimes they are. The warrior's art of stalking itself is unconceivable in solitude, no matter how much you try to stalk yourself, a warrior has to stalk pairs. You can even think of Carlos as Don Juan's own petty tirant, if thats the case.

Don Juan was intensely charismatic, he had to draw and seduce Carlos to his company and to his world, he had to make the world of sorcerers appealing and at the same time always inconclusive, like a TV serial promising more excitment in the next chapter, just as he appeared himself to Carlos, to ensure the "apprentice" would bounce back and again, drooling, towards it. This was part of the "effect" the teachings delivered day by day have, and by no mean I claim this was self-conscious or not from the side of Don Juan, it was simply like that, the seducer and the seduced. If you read anyhting about Milton Erickson, another famous "sorcerer", you'll find some parallels in the impressions people had about him and those impressions the apprentices had about the nagual.

A significant scene in the books, an aspect of which is somewhat overlooked, occurs in Journey to Ixtlan, when a bridge appears out of nothing in front of Carlos in the middle of a storm. When he is about to walk through it and literally enter and merge in the "vision", Don Juan holds him by the arm and explains later that he was not ready to go through it, and of course Carlos - and the reader- agree... without ever checking it for themselves. This single gesture creates and sets by itself a powerful -and invisible- context for the relation between master and apprentice, and is much more powerful and compounding than just informally saying during lunch "I'll be your master, you don't know anyhting, I'll tell what is time for you to do and what you can't do". In fact, Don Juan never had to say anyhting like this, and insisted that he had nothing to teach to Carlos. No matter how much warriors genuinely care for other beings allowing them to follow their own premises and doings, in this scene Don Juan simply can not let Carlos go through the portal that has opened to him leading to other realms of perception.

Don Juan has an agenda, and is embedded in it, the agenda of a millenial tradition, but a tradition in the end. He will let Carlos go through the doors only him, Don Juan, will open for his apprentice, otherwise there would be no such master-apprentice binding, no tradition, no Sancho and Quixote, and no sorcerers party.

Carlos, of course, torn between his own legitimate door to the Unknown, his own unique springboard to the nagual, and the charismatic, loving and nurturing figure which has come to be Don Juan, springs back to safety, to the lesser unknown. Of course, we think, Carlos had to learn a lot before going through that portal, but, can we so assuredly judge that his personal power would not have eventually led him through?

I usually think that had Carlos gone through that bridge, he would have find another Master, another nagual, another guide through the stars, and another tradition of star-journeyers. He was looking for one, self-consciously or not, his personal power was somehow set that way, but he still had to make a no-way-back decision, internal or not, and thus it was set quite evidently. It was Carlos' very own personal power that gave him the choice, you either go through this bridge or you stick with Don Juan, Carlos had to decide where he would place his power, and, most importantly, it was also Don Juan's personal power that made his apprentice chose him instead of the Other Unknown, thus fulfilling the need of the tradition and its lineage.

So far to summarise why, at least for myself, Don Juan could not even breath without Carlos.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
20:49 / 10.09.02
Mmmmwahaha.

Thanks for tip Sebastian.

Yep.It's all about contolled folly...the ultimate cure for loneliness in the sorcerer's world. Retroactive encjantment seems to play a big part in the sorcerer's path. The altering of past life events to fill them with magic and reprogamming the brain. Consider Don Juan's teaxhings to Florinda Donner and Taisha Abelar. Tales of power is a great example.

On another side: Who has heard the rumour that Oliver Stone was one of Genaro's aprentices? Being the reason his production company is named Ixtlan...and his obsession with the Toltec path (think of the Doors and Natural Born Killers)

Really, this is such a great thread. I am sooooo enjoying this dialogue.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
22:05 / 10.09.02
The Toltec Nagual
 
  

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