Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

The Ultimates #5: Something Finally Happens

Page: 1 2(3)4

The Natural Way

19:03 / 25.07.02

I'm not sure that Millar only reads well when accompanied by a good artist. So far, we've only really seen his widescreen stuff (apart from Swampy which was ages ago), and I think cool, easily readable art - with a sense of drama and scale - is vital if'n you want to pull that kind of thing off successfully (one of reasons, I think, apart from fill in writers and illness, why UXM hasn't rocked quite as hard as it should).

We've yet to see his solo, creator owned (possibly non-super) books yet. I won't write the man off before I see what he can do - tho' I do appreciate that there might be some grounds for doubt and grumping.

And it is a guilty pleasure. One of the reasons I enjoy it so.

The Natural Way

19:09 / 25.07.02

Bizunth: forget realism (and certainly forget Watchmen [fuck knows why you brought that up - who cares what Millar said]) - "realism" is just another form there for the plundering. I like Hollywood, but if you want DEPTH and BEARD (perfectly good things in their own right) go elsewhere and stop interrupting my beautiful, flowing runce-juice.

21:14 / 25.07.02

Word to the brother.

For fuck's sake we live in the post-modern age. Realism is at least as aesthetic as it is functional; Millar seems to understand this.
If people would bother to read the interview they would see that Hollywood is referenced just as much as reality.

Also, on the topic of execution, the Ultimate's cooler pace has allowed for some surprisingly articulate storytelling.

As far as I'm concerned, 6 contained the most articulate and exciting action sequence in recent comic-book history.

Murray Hamhandler

00:06 / 26.07.02

I'm glad that Millar came out w/the above comments on the same day that I was going to point out that it was disingenuous bordering on insulting to be calling the man a sadist, etc. Some people get too wrapped up in the work of a given creator and begin attributing their feelings (positive or negative) about the work to the creator him or herself. Arguments can be made as to whether or not the creator's intent should figure in to one's interpretation of the creator's work, but I think that it's often unfair to assess a creator's character solely on the basis of interpretation of the creator's work. Millar, for instance, may not be as successful at communicating his intent as he would like to be (he's not the most skilled writer that ever was, after all), but work that may be interpreted as sadistic in nature does not neccessarily paint the creator of said work as a sadist. It's certainly somewhat more valid, however, to assess a creator's character on the basis of comments made in an interview...

It should also be said that I think it can be kind of unfair to harshly judge a discrete installment of a story outwith the context of the story as a whole...but I guess that's an obstacle in interpreting or critiquing most forms of ongoing narrative and, as such, a whole other ball o' wax.

Murray Hamhandler

00:23 / 26.07.02

Or...maybe no one actually ever seriously called Millar a sadist? Can't find a non-facetious example of such, now that I'm looking. Still, you know, you can take it as thread-rot that can be applied as my opinion in similar situations.

The Natural Way

08:42 / 26.07.02

No, I have toyed w/ the idea that he's a bit sadistic in the past. I wasn't being wholly facetious. There's always this streak of weird cruely running through Millar's work. I could give you examples. But, TBH, I don't really care..... Whatever, I didn't mean to give the impression that he sits around watching footage of starving children for kicks - just that he derives the same pleasure from seeing the Authority utterly degraded as his readers. But we're not writing that shit......

But, yeah, enough w/ the psychoanalysis already. I'll shut up.

yawn - thing's buddy

09:44 / 26.07.02

this whole sep 11 thing is worrying me still.

remember the 'what if superheros' were real' paradigm, which ripped into existence after watchmen and Dark Knight? - how the industry was infected with 'real' versions of superheroics?

Remember how shit that was?

Can anyone be arsed with this approach a second time around?

Are superhero comics going to become Emergency Services docu-zines?

yawn.....

09:58 / 26.07.02

if millar is a sadist then ennis must just be a dribbling fucking spree-killer and catholic manrape machine. but he's not. the people here ought to be too sophisticated to make inferences about a man's personal/political character from his work, and they should certainly be able to separate those inferences from the simple aesthetics of the work itself. i don't think an artist's political views should take priority over whether a piece of art is being well turned out, which both the ultimates and authority certainly are/were.

yawn - thing's buddy

10:04 / 26.07.02

i only half beleive you

yawn - thing's buddy

10:09 / 26.07.02

and the other half agree with you too

The Natural Way

10:34 / 26.07.02

I don't think you need worry too much yawn. I'm sure everything will still be fun to read. Remember: THE RED SKULL. Everything's better now....

And, onion, yr probably right, but Millar's characters are consistently nasty and in slightly more creepy, subtle ways than Ennis's "I'm shitting in yr stump!!" fuckOs.

12:12 / 26.07.02

yeah that's true but there's something unrelenting about ennis and the simplicity of the dark void that justifies the violence of his heroes and villains alike. bought a cheapo dredd goodnight kiss tpb to cheer myself up this week. the killing and stuff was so...much that it just made me feel worse. probably just cause it wasn't very well-written, and i'm aging superfast.

12:13 / 26.07.02

"this whole sep 11 thing is worrying me still.

remember the 'what if superheros' were real' paradigm, which ripped into existence after watchmen and Dark Knight? - how the industry was infected with 'real' versions of superheroics?

Remember how shit that was?

Can anyone be arsed with this approach a second time around?"

Yawn

See my earlier post. There really is nothing to worry about, we ain't in the 80's no more. Besides, 80's superheroics were as much about Deconstruction as they were Realism. It's a different age. Millar seems to want to combine Hollywood superheroics with just a touch of realism (small case intentional) to add spice.

The point is that Millar is proposing something very different from Frank and Alan. Their project was to take apart the superheroic myth -shatter it with a huge injection of reality. Millar, conversely, wants to reinforce it using a much more controlled dose.

He wants superheroics to be super again.

Actually, the more I think about it... okay, Frank's project was pretty similar.

Oh yeah:

Ultimate Captain Britain. Fuck yes.

The Natural Way

13:26 / 26.07.02

I know.

Maybe you guys should stop wasting yr time scribing Future Shock poo for a certain fanzine-that-shall-not-be-named and get some o' yer Britain ideas off to Bill and the Marvel Krunts.

Actually, maybe I should do some writing. At all.

yawn - thing's buddy

14:03 / 26.07.02

Hey Babies - I wasn't worried about Millar doing 'reality' - its all the other lazy fucks out there who like to ride the wave.

ps. anyone notice the constant background city 'hum' present in the Ultimates?

isn't it cool?

14:09 / 26.07.02

Yep, understood that. Was just pointing out that what Millar is doing looks radically different.

The Natural Way

13:14 / 27.07.02

Re: the Iron Man armour as racing car analogy.

See 5: Starks tech guys/engineers = pit crew.

Ridiculously so in fact.

The Natural Way

08:05 / 28.07.02

And you know how the Ultimates "save the world" next story arc.

And you know how the events of the next story arc are, in Millar's words, "foreshadowed by the dialogue in a tiny, little panel in #2".....well......

"He (cap) discovered the alien-tech that kick started the NASA program after WW2"

Eh?

What was that?

Skrulls?

The Natural Way

15:04 / 29.07.02

Yes, that's right: Skrulls.

I'm talking to myself here, but I'm just going to carry on regardless. Looking forward to seeing Millar's Ultimate Defenders, but slightly worried about the potential shitness of an U Def book: all the good writers are otherwise commited. Hopefully there won't be one, seeing as the Defenders are, historically, rather a loose knit band of individuals who tend to gather together only in times of crisis.

I shouldn't know facts like that.

Also looking forward to Ultimate Captain Britain. Arrgh! I wish someone good would get stuck into an Excalibur book.

I also want Kazar. We've got the Savage Land, now where's its king?

You know, I've had some really good ideas along those lines myself. There definitely a niche for an adventure/Indiana Jones-style book and...mmmm...I think I've found a really groovy way to rationalise The Savage Land. It's so simple and elegant and totally MU it hurts.

Oh, and speaking of all things Ultimate: Fecund had some fabulous ideas for Ultimate Silver Surfer and Galactus.

yawn - thing's buddy

17:23 / 29.07.02

I wanted to reply but know fuck all about the skrulls.

But I did love the kill crew (at least what I see of them in the two issues i own) - I'm willing to bet gold that McCarthy designed those characters which Yeowell ended up drawing.

The Natural Way

17:46 / 29.07.02

Well, it's just that I heard a rumour about the Skrulls and, obviously, I have no idea whether it's on the money, but, considering some of the evidence, there could be something in it.

I, too, know fuck all about Skrulls, except for the fact that they're the interstellar bigbad (Galactus, Eternity nd other ridiculous bastards accepted) - so, if an invasion force is on its way from outer space, they seem like the best option. And maybe Red Skull'll turn up along the way. Give the crew someone definitive to punch.

I keep returing to this thread to speculate like a fatbeard. I think it's related to "must get my hands on the next ish now!" frustration. And because I'm stuck at home feeling unwell and I've got nothing better to do.

Bored now.

Matthew Fluxington

19:18 / 29.07.02

The most notable thing about the Skrulls is that they are shape-shifters, and highly imperialistic. There's lot of interesting story ideas that haven't really been explored with those guys, I think.

I never did read Millar & Morrison's Skrull Kill Krew comic, so maybe there's some hint in there somewhere of what either of those guys might do with them in the future.

20:39 / 29.07.02

we're all listening mike sweetheart don't worry - sorry to hear you're unwell. re: rumours and wild speculation there's also a panel in ish 2 which refers to Banner's shady connection used to fund the super soldier program in the old days. that sounds more like a Mr R.Skull than a victoria 'lorna' doom to me. skk to hopefully appear in the next book of marvel boy. as for the skrulls, they've already had a comedy intro to the ultimate u, so we'll have to wait and see if they're going to be a threat. i think a kree invasion might be more fun as they are less obvious gross monster invader than the skrulls. skrulls are best used for stopping bullets.

22:05 / 29.07.02

Oh c'mon...

How about an ULTIMATE: KREE/Skrull WAR!!!

or how about that Nut job... KORVAC

Twig the Wonder Kid

10:14 / 30.07.02

yawn: I think you're right, those designs were a product of the new McCarthyism. I've got some character sketches somewhere that a friend cut out of a magazine and faxed me. (remember fax machines, kids).

Tom was in the Guardian this morning. What is this world coming to?

The Natural Way

10:20 / 30.07.02

The Kree would be good, wouldn't they? I had stroked the beard along those lines, but, for some reason, I just wnt with the Skrulls. I know the Skrulls are all "look at the ugly greenies!", Johnny Foreigner baddies (i.e. a bit racist), but the whole master-race vibe of the Kree's pretty played out, too. Neither are particularly healthy portrayals of otherness, so I don't really care who gets it. Oh, maybe the Kree should: the white man can definitely withstand a bit more kicking.

But then we're all probably talking poo here, and the next big bad'll be someone even more superb like MODOK. Oh, yes: that's MODOK. How I love MODOK.

onion: have you heard Fecund's ideas for Galactus and the Surfer? So good I actually emailed them to Grant, sad shit that I am.

yawn - thing's buddy

11:44 / 30.07.02

twig - fanks for confirmation: any chance of getting the bewties online?

runce - funny thing about fecund is that the word sounds orrible and diseased, but actually means something quite different.

So, what's he like:

luxuriant or jaundiced?

The Natural Way

12:48 / 30.07.02

Mmmm. 'Fecund' is alright as far as names go, but I preferred 'Hindermate' (it just sounded more annoying).

But the most annoying/truly excellent name award has to go to 'Adamswish'. It doesn't get more irritating than that (tho' I gather it's his IRL name amalgamated). I like nasty, virusey names that I just can't get "outta my head" - like the pop song. 'glassonion' is a truly disappointing name when you consider what an intelligent, funny and imaginative bloke he is IRL. But then he saves all that stuff for his posts and a writing style that borders on some kind of weird manifesto.

Sorry, this really is about as far from the Ultimates as it gets.

yawn - thing's buddy

13:24 / 30.07.02

my fault.

thinking of changing my name to yawnnui to further extend the 'tired of life' metaphor.

yawn - thing's buddy

13:24 / 30.07.02

but I can't be arsed.

18:50 / 30.07.02

Fecund is bountiful.

Proof:

MODOK: Mental Organism Designed Only for Killing

Gotta love dem big heds

18:59 / 30.07.02

Occurs to me that the Hulk's gonna be back for the end of year thrills.

MODOK and the Hulk have problems with each other.

The Natural Way

19:03 / 30.07.02

anyone up for some Hulk/MODOK slash?

The Natural Way

19:06 / 30.07.02

Actually, I could really dig on some MODOK/Supreme Intelligence sexy action.

Murray Hamhandler

23:34 / 30.07.02

As a contribution to the thread rot, I must say that MODOK is one of the most visually appealing characters in comics ever. Any character that rides around in a flying chair already has a lot going for them (hi, Metron!), but if said character is a big ugly head to boot, well...that character's damn near perfect in my book. MODOK fascinates me, even though I don't know the first thing about him (other than that he's a big ugly head that rides around in a flying chair). I bought his action figure as soon as I found out that there was one. I would love to see MODOK get his own Ultimate title. I want a MODOK breakfast cereal and a MODOK flying chair. MODOK completes me. I HEART MOKOK!!! MODOK ROKS!!!

Page: 1 2(3)4