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Underground > Comic Books >

The Ultimates #5: Something Finally Happens

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05:17 / 11.07.02

Question is, was it worth the wait?

Hmmm.

(I thought this was supposed to be double-sized?)

The Natural Way

07:49 / 11.07.02

Well, I'm sure it's fun, but nothing can excuse the all out naughtiness of a two month wait. Oh, uh "Hitch wanted to make sure the fight scenes were extra special"..... Get it in on time, cocky!

The Natural Way

11:00 / 11.07.02

Yes, fun indeed, and very nice art, but LATE! NAUGHTINESS!

The book always reads really well and Millar has a good handle on the characters. The soldier boy stuff really came puring outta the Cap'n in this one. And Giant Man got fucked right away. Knew he would.

I want Kang.

14:46 / 11.07.02

I liked it. The last page was worth the wait.

Zoom.

05:03 / 13.07.02

Still didn't get it down here. For explanations from Hitch check Rich Johnston "Lying In the Gutters" 07/08 column at http://cbr.cc

Colourist Paul Monts dropped in the WEF infor regarding editorial trying to force sound effects and following agreement on dropping them. I take that more or less as rumor.

10:43 / 13.07.02

Something new appears to be going on in The Ultimates: wide-screen action with a small dash of realism for flavour.

I like it alot.

13:14 / 13.07.02

yeh i really dug it. it's millar's standard omnibaddie shitting on the whole team for an issue then being goliathed, but with the aforesaid realism on this title the overall effect was greatly improved. his take on the hulk is i think brilliant, not just a dumbly lumbering monster nor some conceptual Nemesis nor even just a rampaging id machine, but specifically banner's own repressed id gone wrong, him as a child, a disturbed sociopath and a demigod all at once. too late tho.

and the bit with thor and the hammer was just like my first wank.

The Natural Way

09:34 / 14.07.02

I know. I was there.

Well, we got our big fight at last and OF COURSE it delivered: it looked excellent and filled all 22 pages. Non-stop. Hoorah. So, the Marvel public get what they want, as do The Ultimates, as do the readers....but, great, it's a fucking disaster. The team gets the shit kicked out of them and the whole thing's a PR nightmare.

The boys and gals still have to prove theyselves.

The next threat has to be superbad - something so awful that the public and the media are forced to concede, amidst the inevitable cries for the gang to just fuck off and stop letting their team-mates trash the city, that they NEED our heroes.

The Hulk was bad enough, but he was obviously the starter before the main course, and with the advent of Black Widow next time and all the Latverian foreshadowing going on... hmmmm... International espionage plus rogue state (a popular theme in the airwaves of late) could it equal a certain 'Man in the Iron Mask' trying to perfect some kind of goddawful superweapon? Are the UN inspectors having trouble getting a gander at some nasty future threat?

Is Millar fucking Bush?

Whatever, if it's not Doom's turn now then I think we can safetly say he's just waiting round the corner. Other BIG BADS:

Loki (he's gotta turn up - that'll be fun)

Kang (the Avengers baddie)

and....

"There's more sides to this war...."

THE RED SKULL.

Yay!

Fanboy leaping!!

I really think this is a great book: I love the logical conclusion of the Widescreen thing, the FX, the pace, the feel, the 'private' army attatched to the Triskellion (and the fact that they actually perform a function and aren't just there to look nice), Thor, Cap, Wasp, Iron Man....and Giant Man getting beaten up. And it's funny and it'll read well in trades and my kid bro and his mates are very happy.

I know there'll be some grouching, but, for nice fun when I'm bored on the train and I can't be bothered with that Oscar Wilde book, the Ultimates is perfect. I just enjoy it a lot and it doesn't get anymore complicated than that.

Moan about the real Avenger's book - now that actually does suck.

16:24 / 14.07.02

right now i like the idea of loki as thor's pr manager/confidant or p-a. in the myths they were always staunch companions - they often disagreed and used different methods, but their loyalty to odin, the mission and each other was pretty much unquestioned [until the whole death of balder thing. messy bizness]. i wouldn't be surprised to see millar do more of a trickster/light-bringer thing to loki, having him as the unseen force behind the formation of the team to promote mankind, push it into its next phase of evolution n that. [u r only forerunners] this would be cooler, less manichaean and fit better with the original avengers origin [the boyz first got togther to fight the hulk who had been unleashed by loki or s'thing]

kang and ultron [maybe a vision prototype gone wrong?] get my vote as baddies, but from what millar's been saying the stories probably won't have that traditional kind of build em up/knock em down structure to them. i say bring on vic von doom, sworn enemy of american capitalism and benevolent ruler of the world's only true technological utopia. probably the latverians are happy enough to let un inspectors in, just the us is so far behind on its payments to the weapons inspectorate that they can't get a decent operation together. 'you couldn't make it up'

18:21 / 14.07.02

They HAVE to save Doom for Ultimate FF!

19:23 / 14.07.02

i know what you mean but i don't think they will. the only thing that might be considered a sub-plot throughout the run of team-up was the foreshadowing of bad business rewing in latveria, directly involving fury, i-man and the widow. the thing i reckon they're saving for u-ff is the surfer and galactus, two characters so unfuckingreasonably cool that only gm should be allowed to write them. the apocalypse god and the angelic antibody.

yawn - thing's buddy

22:18 / 14.07.02

I've never even touched this Ultimates thing but the way you're banging on about it Glassion (sic) makes me want to read the dam rag!

so, millar's to be trusted on this then?

usually I can't deal with his 'Morrison with welders mittens' writing style.

The Natural Way

07:35 / 15.07.02

But he's not Morrison at all, really. There's fuckall of Morrison's transcendentalist omnisubplot in Millar's writing. He just plays it big and loud and soapy, and, if you like that, and you like it done well (as far as I'm concerned Millar's the best at telling that kind of tale. Ellis can sod off.), then The Ultimates might fill the hole in yr "superheroes doing WAR!!!" cavity. S'very "spirit of the age" stuff....something I'm still not sure is a good or a bad or a "it just is the way it is" thing: should Millar be contributing to the big, bad militaristic vibe bubbling less than gently beneath these pretty, YOU-ARE-HERE, CCTV/MTV drenched times?

It's not deep and beardy (and it could be !WRONG!), but it is good.

I still say Doom next, but Kang, Red Skull, Loki and Ultron'll be quick on his heels.

yawn - thing's buddy

09:22 / 15.07.02

yeah, fair poiunt about millar not being morrison at all.

I'm very unfair towards him, cos he's west coast acottish, wrote the awful saviour strip (real superhero type shtick) and collaborates a lot with the man.

yawn - thing's buddy

07:21 / 17.07.02

ultimates: love it!

The Natural Way

07:39 / 17.07.02

Good to know that yr into fighting too, yawn.

Not enough people on Barbelith are into fighting. I mean, they talk a good talk, but.....they are like small children.

09:38 / 17.07.02

I think children actually do more fighting than adults.

The Natural Way

09:48 / 17.07.02

Aaah, but I meant 'weak like children' - unable to hold their own in the bigman, fighty world of The Ultimates.

yawn - thing's buddy

09:48 / 17.07.02

shut it you, or ah'll rip yer fuckin jaw.

woah - hulk does manhattan was amazing. best fight since zenith punched a hole through masterman and possibly even as good as the kickin miracleman took offa kid miracleman way back when!!

the art is damn good too - this stuff just feels....

BIG

yawn - thing's buddy

09:50 / 17.07.02

bio - It was your jaw I wanted to rip, but if runce reckons he's a bit tasty, well, I'm up for that too.

yawn smush (mongrol ref, brit kids!)

yawn - thing's buddy

09:54 / 17.07.02

I went out and grabbed ultimates 1, 4 and 5 cos thats all there was and demolished them in the bath last night.

I'll shut up now, but i just want to say

YEAH

this stuff is good. There really is nothing like a well coreogrsphed fight in the pages of a comic book, is there.

i remember buying the reprinted FF comics in the late seventies when a was a very small boy (who liked fighting) and getting very excited over the original kirby hulk/thing confrontation. I was soooooo on the Things side man.

The Natural Way

10:24 / 17.07.02

Yeah that's the thing: up until five (and 1, I s'pose) the Marvel Public and the readers were endlessly bitching about the lack of any action....and then it's the end of 4 and BAM! 22 PAGE FIGHT! Really feels like the best action film since Die Hard and, when Doom shows, the effect'll double (DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE!): dangerous europeans in suits ahoy!

Matthew Fluxington

12:03 / 17.07.02

I thought it was just okay. The best thing about the issue is Hitch's art - a LOT of photo referencing.

My problem with the issue is pretty simple - I'm sick of seeing NYC trashed. It's such a fucking cliche at this point, why can't they trash some other city?

There were no realistic repercussions of the events, no signs of death, the city was evacuated FAR too easily, it would never have been so fast. Never. There's a fairly recent event that is a pretty good template for what would happen in NYC was in crisis, and Millar just threw it out the window.

And why is Hitch comfortable with drawing and releasing this issue of the Ultimates, but not the issue of the Authority that he scrapped cos it was about NYC under attack? That makes no sense. At least Hitch's story apparently spent a lot of time with the Authority helping to rescue people.

yawn - thing's buddy

12:33 / 17.07.02

I think the point made about the hulk killing at least 12 innocent bystanders was pretty 'new' in the context of superfights. I'm not a marvel affficionado so don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

The Natural Way

13:11 / 17.07.02

Naah, Flux, New York's been trashed before, but it's never felt so BIG and fun. There isn't a comic out there like the Ultimates - the scraps actually get me excited. Fuck realism - this is Hollywood. I love the idea of a super team w/ a mobile army. Fab. I just think the book reads really well and the characters feel modern, which is just lovely.

Millar and Hitch's I-Man actually feels as though he could repulsor ray his way through a block, his Hulk's King Kong and his Mjolnir...well, I could actually hear the THX-style, cinema quaking THUNK every time it crashed down on Banner's poor, sorry head. This is what, if we're gonna read superhero fighty books, we should all be reading.

Matthew Fluxington

13:22 / 17.07.02

There isn't a comic like the Ultimates? Oh come on. It's Authority Phase Two.

I think it's ridiculous to put out a comic like this, which plays at being smart, but ducks the issue of realism in light of recent events when it comes to laying on the violence porn. The same thing happened in a recent issue of Uncanny X-Men in which Paris is levelled, the Eiffel Tower destroyed. It's so lame, just like in the Ultimates, the consequences of the actions are irrelevant, invisible. "The city has been evacuated" is a cop-out. It's profoundly unrealistic. Having huge chunks of NYC destroyed is a BIG DEAL, and Millar et al treat it as just one more special effect.

I would have thought that September 11th would have made people think twice before doing things like this in comics and movies, or at least make them portray them in sensitive, realistic terms. I guess I was wrong.

People who want their violence porn will get what they pay for...

The Natural Way

13:49 / 17.07.02

Read thread, Fluxy: I know it's Authority MK 2. But Authority's did and goon.

Oh, right, it's a New York post 911 thing for you, aint it?

Well....I can't tell you not to get upset - that's fair enough. But stop going on about "realism". Realism's just another form The Ultimate's plunders. Superheroes aren't realistic...and would it be okay and cool if it was another city getting trashed or one of the billion other super-disasters that blow up in the MU every day? Anyway...I'm not sure if Millar's comic is morally kosher, but I enjoy reading it.

yawn - thing's buddy

13:56 / 17.07.02

and the reponse of banner is quite terrifying innit:

becoming the 'enemy' for the heroes to fight.

sinister.

The Natural Way

13:59 / 17.07.02

And I'm not entirely convinced The Ultimates sells itself on its intelligence. Some of Millars (possibly ill thought out) politics may appear in there, but the book, its press and its ads hardly reek eau de brain.

yawn - thing's buddy

14:13 / 17.07.02

Millar's good at uncovering the vacuity at the heart of American culture - and it's love of violence. And it's obsession with male power. And it's self-absorbing gloss. And it's.....

basically Millar's good at violence.

Being a member of the Buckfast Brigade from Coatbidge, this is no surprise.

If you ever come to Glasgow, you'll find that wherever you turn, people are talking about violence, fights, stabbings, doings, beltings, plunging etc.

Anyone get a whiff of sadism of Iron Man in in this series? (I know very little of the character's history - but iIget a mighty strong smell of hidden violence, narcissism and mysogyny offa this dude)

The Natural Way

14:40 / 17.07.02

I get a whiff of sadism off Millar's writing generally. There's so much cruelty in his stuff: Betty Ross is horrible, Banner's the perfect victim, Cap kicks a man (in the face w/ massive boots) when he's down and, oh dear, that SICK joke Giant Man plays on Wasp in 2 (where, yawn, he basically convinces her that the Giant-man serum is turning him inside out).... It all adds up to nasty fun w/ abuse of power.

yawn - thing's buddy

15:10 / 17.07.02

yeah, you're right about Millar. But I pick that up off Morrison too, cept his contextualises it within his cosmology/belief system wheras Millar just lets rip.

I mean Morrison's got his juvenile shite n violence fixation re: ASS 2 ASS etc... (when I saw the infamous 'double assin' scene in Requeim for A Dream I got a naughty thrill, and found myself repeating Ass to Ass in a sick American accent for the nest few weeks round the office; I bet Morrison was similarly excited)

It's an attraction to extremes of human expression basically.

17:25 / 17.07.02

You have problems.

yawn - thing's buddy

17:30 / 17.07.02

and you're wunevum asshole

21:25 / 17.07.02

Weeeee've got a Winna!

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