Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Policy & Help >

New Forums

Page: 1 2(3)4 5

15:35 / 01.05.02

Ierne: Nope. Not kidding. It was the first, and best, idea that popped into my head for maintaning a safe environment. That said, its major deficincy is someone who already has multiple suits and is willing to sacrifice them. Any free speech clause can be bandied about as a license to post like an asshole. I'd have no problem watching someone get booted for violating that sort of environment.

I still don't think we need a gaming forum. The spectacle teems with fan-threads and is likely seen in that light by lurkers and passers-by. It's more like a (sub)cultural litmus test or an indoctrination program than a round table discussion. That it would add nothihng might be its worst crime; and that it would embarrass.

15:40 / 01.05.02

well personally i think the did emma and scott shag thread is pretty pointless noise rather than meaningful debate. Its also hardly the most convincing arguement that a gaming forum wouldn't resemble the online equivelent of the eltlingville comics, sci-fi and roleplaying club...

16:04 / 01.05.02

I find the idea that a gaming forum would embarass anyone to be highly prejudicial.
I've spent the last 15 or so years of my life being embarassed to be a gamer because of the stigma attached to it. And to find that here is incredible.
I have started a number of threads today to do with gaming, meeting with relative success, and I don't think any of them could be considered an embarassment to the perceived high-falutin' ideals of Barbelith.

Zoom.

Morlock - groupie for hire

16:38 / 01.05.02

Of course, with a roving forum we could just (shock, horror) try these ideas out. If any of 'em fly, they can be given a more permanent home.
Tom, best guess on difficulty?

16:50 / 01.05.02

I think a general-gaming forum could be interesting, purely because there are enough people on the board at the moment making musings. I also think that, far more than some of the other fora, it would require SERIOUSLY tight moderation to avoid the degeneration Tom et al mention. Now, I know Tom isn't a big fan of moderation like that, but it would help.

But my other idea, I think it came up earlier as the "roving forum": a temporary forum, temporary title. It's always present, but it's content regularly gets changed. IE: at the moment, there are noises for a gaming forum. That'd be where it goes. When gaming noise dies down, if another topic starts coming up that could need a forum... in it goes. So there's always ONE extra forum, but the role it plays varies.

(On a gaming front: not so much of a pen and paper man myself, but bear in mind there are VERY VERY FEW serious discussions of anything vg-related on the net. Hell, even the Edge forums are chock full of shite; I think the discussion here would probably be better. If moderated-tightly, etc.)

My two penneth, anyhow.

pointless and uncalled for

16:58 / 01.05.02

I have no problems with tight-moderation and would happily see cusm and Zoom as mods.

16:59 / 01.05.02

I think we should try both ideas (The Body/ sex forum and the Gaming forum) for a trial period of about a month to see if they're "worthwhile".

pointless and uncalled for

17:10 / 01.05.02

I would say that any new forum suggestion receiving more than a handful of support be earmarked for introduction to the board.

Each new forum would have to be supported by a minimum of two people willing to act in a moderator capacity, both being agreeable to Tom and would be slated for a two month run. A poll could be taken at the end of the first month and should there be any problems that are not resolved by the end of the second month (lack of use, forum deterioration, board denigration etc) then the forum can be consigned to an early grave and all active and valuable (moderators discretion) threads be distributed to an apporpriate alternative forum.

No more than two new forums at a time.

Matthew Fluxington

17:24 / 01.05.02

I'm against the 'sex' forum for many of the reasons that have already been mentioned, mainly that it's a) unnecessary given the conversation and head shop already get both ends of the sex-talk spectrum, there's no need for a third forum to dilute things further, and b) I'm afraid of what kind of embarassing penis-ear threads will clutter it up.

About the gaming forum - on one hand, we can get all the gaming threads that are cluttering up all the forums lately into one little ghetto, so that people who have something like an allergic reaction to seeing "RPG soundtracks" in the music forum can live live their lives free of that sort of thing. On the other hand, why can't you all just go somewhere else? If you like the gamer folks here, why not just start a private message board or email list and invite yr Barbegamer pals over to hang out? That seems a lot more reasonable than starting a Gaming forum on Barbelith.

I think that additional forums on Barbelith should have more to do with Barbelith as a concept rather than the demands of a vocal minority...additional forums should be logical.

17:35 / 01.05.02

I find it interesting that people seem to be okay with a "tightly moderated" Gaming Forum.

I wonder if, were we to start up a forum with tighter moderation than the others, and such tight moderation proved to be effective, how that would effect the board as a whole.

Would other Forums start tightening up as well? Would there be less willingness to put up with assholery? Or would the Gaming Forum go the way of the Edsel due to accusations of elitism and cliquery?

17:46 / 01.05.02

I have very little interest in RPGs but this: Why can't you all just go somewhere else? is elitest and completely uncalled for. Why don't you just type up a fucking manifesto about what you think barbelith should be and post it in every forum?

I think that additional forums on Barbelith should have more to do with Barbelith as a concept rather than the demands of a vocal minority...

Look, I know this place started as some sort of Invisibles hoo ha but thats all over now. What do Captain America, Terry and the Pirates, or Dan Clowes have to do with barbelith as a concept? Maybe we should get rid of the comics forum.

17:48 / 01.05.02

After all, you can start a private message board or email list and invite yr Barbecomic pals over to hang out. Or just hang out at your LCS all day.

17:56 / 01.05.02

Zoom sez:
I find the idea that a gaming forum would embarass anyone to be highly prejudicial.

Read what i said again. I didn't say that anything about embaressment - (I did say that it was more likely to resemble the eltlingville comic/scifi/etc etc. comic strips of Evan Dorkin. If you find that resembelence embarassing that is purely down to you)

More to the point I said a gaming forum would not regularly contribute meaningful debate. - to look at the example of your thread about gaming inspired comics what has it generated? i disection of the differences in dynamic and form between interactive roleplaying game and the solo world of comics? No, we have another thread that seves simply as a list of stuff that vaguely references gaming in some way.

pointless and uncalled for

18:03 / 01.05.02

And would you say that 4 replies is an accurate depiction of the character of a thread and all that it can be?

18:17 / 01.05.02

I think that additional forums on Barbelith should have more to do with Barbelith as a concept rather than the demands of a vocal minority...additional forums should be logical.

I don't see that the proposed gaming forum would be at odds with the general ethos of the board. I don't have time to get into gaming bigtime (of any variety), but I wouldn't deny that the growing importance of games to a lot of people demands at least as much attention as any of the other Spectacle forums. It depends how it was set up and how many people were constantly committed enough to inject a bit of quality in there once in a while. If it were to be done, I suggest:

1 - Give it a decent name and a decent forum description, very much in line with what cusm has already said.

2 - Let the people who want the forum get together and set a launch date. They can negotiate amongst themselves to come up with five or six threads to kick the forum off in high gear, rather than letting it drift into existence. Beginning the forum with the quality that people would hope to maintain provides a decent point of comparison should it lose its way.

3 - Choose moderators who will make sure that the forum has plenty of fluff-free topics set up on a regular basis: ie, people who will work bloody hard at it. I think the phrase "moderation intensive" should be synonomous with moderators who are constantly provoking quality, as opposed to any kind of censorship or rule making. Maybe there needs to be more behind the scenes communication between moderators, to plan the introduction of threads and ideas that they want to bring to the mix (I don't know how much of this there already is in other forums).

Hope some of that's helpful.

18:47 / 01.05.02

Just wanted to add, I think the roving topic forum is a really cool idea, and possibly a solution to this whole debate. It lets us try out possible forums, and if they burn out of fail, move on to something else. If they really take off, then maybe make them permanent.

Solutions via Technology!

Matthew Fluxington

18:52 / 01.05.02

I think that comics belongs, because it's part of the Spectacle, and Spectacle is a logical part of Barbelith because it's meant to be a critique and celebration of culture. I don't think gaming qualifies as part of the Spectacle because it's not a form of communication or artistic expression, it's interactive rather than spectacular. It just doesn't fit in with music, books, film, comics, or art/design.

If a gaming forum existed, I guess the most logical place to put it would be "Participation", but that doesn't seem right either.

19:10 / 01.05.02

Originally posted by Flux: On the other hand, why can't you all just go somewhere else? If you like the gamer folks here, why not just start a private message board or email list and invite yr Barbegamer pals over to hang out? That seems a lot more reasonable than starting a Gaming forum on Barbelith

Surely the same could be said for anyone who like music. Go somewhere else. Or, for that matter, people who want to talk about magic, or films. Why are these things more intrinsically a part of Barbelith than anything else? If this is a sub-cultural discussion board I can think of few recreational activities that are more a sub-culture than role-playing games. Is it just because we've always had music and film and magic discussions here that these things are a part of Barbelith? Or is it because RPG's and video games are seen as not being something that can further whatever our agenda here is?

Just curious.

Zoom.

pointless and uncalled for

19:10 / 01.05.02

No communication in gaming Flux?

Maybe in single player Doom style games but otherwise there is a whole and very broad range of communication involved in gaming, especially RPG's.

Besides, the Spectacle is as much about entertainment as it is communication and artistic expression. I think it fits very well there.

Matthew Fluxington

19:14 / 01.05.02

Sure, there's communication between people involved in the mechanics of game playing, but it's not a communication of emotions, ideas, concepts, and critiques from one person to a larger audience as in other Spectacle topics. As I said, games are only ever spectacular in a secondary sense, not in direct way.

I insist that if you have a gaming forum, it MUST be open to discussion of athletics and sports as well, and that it's not a part of the Spectacle family of forums. It's only fair and appropriate that way.

pointless and uncalled for

19:17 / 01.05.02

And on the subject of gaming not being part of Barbelith, I think IMHO that you are pretty much wrong.

I would be inclined to say that gaming, as part of popular culture and RPG's as part of creative culture have had a strong influence on comics and comic culture and thus in a linear fashion an affect on the concept of Barbelith.

Matthew Fluxington

19:28 / 01.05.02

Um, yeah, sure - but this isn't a community ABOUT comics. I don't think that Barbelith as a whole is meant to be the geek haven that some people are thinking it's supposed to be. This surely is a geek-friendly environment, but it isn't exactly the main thrust of the community, right?

19:37 / 01.05.02

I agree that we don't need a forum just for gaming but the problem seems to be that whenever someone starts a thread about a game three or four people show up to tell them that the thread doesn't belong in that forum. They don't contribute anything to the thread. Not to keep poking you with a stick Flux, but why even bother with the Game Theory thread? Its those kinds of attacks that make gamers want their own forum in the first place.

19:53 / 01.05.02

I really think the problem is that there are members of the board who have a very specific idea of what Barbelith is and is not about. And when something goes against what they believe to be the greater good, they attack it. I'm not saying that in some cases the attacks may not be warranted, but in many cases they're not. If we can't have a gaming forum, could I ask that topics about gaming not be relegated to having no value? If this debate has shown anything it's that there's enough of us here who value gaming that it ought to be at least a small part of the community.

Zoom.

Matthew Fluxington

20:05 / 01.05.02

Its those kinds of attacks that make gamers want their own forum in the first place.

Well, right there you hit upon something I've been biting my tongue about - that this campaign to get a gaming forum set up seems to the lobby of a small handful of people who are acting out of defensiveness about their interests, and are now beginning to spam all of the forums with gaming content out of childishness and spite.

20:28 / 01.05.02

I don't think people really understand just how subversive gaming is as a communications medium. Wake up our of the 80s guys, its not about slaying dragons anymore. RPGs express political, religious, social, even magickal ideas, often slipping them right under the door by dressing them up as a game. A game line is as much a form of entertainment as it is the line developer's medium to express their particular opinion of the world. I should know, I talk to the people who make them. You saw what Morrison did with Magick and comics. There's more of that in gaming than comics can even touch, and has been for years. Guess what? The christian fundys were right. Gaming does lead to witchcraft. If you only knew how many game authors were magickians or occultists of one stripe or another, you'd never look at a suppliment the same way again.

A good game book describes how the world (or a piece of it) works, as much as a book on magick or philosophy does. Its just a different medium, and one people don't even realize. That's why its so powerful. If that isn't in the spirit of Barbelith, I don't know what is. Enough so, that I might just withdraw my support for a gaming forum so as to not call any more attention to it.

20:40 / 01.05.02

Thanks for the interest in my threads there flux. Funnily enough, I was just seeing if the gaming threads could fit into any of the other forums, or if a separate forum was needed. I don't know why I even fucking bother with this place some days. You'd rather sit here and debate whether gaming belongs here, and I get accused of spamming 'cause I'm doing essentially the same thing in a different fashion. It's funny that you would accuse me of spite and childishness because I'm actually doing instead of just talking. And I don't think it's spam if people actually respond favourably to it. In fact, you're the only one who hasn't. Just don't fucking look if you don't like it.

Zoom.

21:38 / 01.05.02

OK. Look. This is a fairly clear situation where something like a vote would probably be the best way of proceeding. Unfortunately we don't really have the infrastructure to put a vote together at the moment, but it IS coming. I think we'd probably need more than a simple majority in order to create another forum but not a lot more...

I apologise if I sounded down on gamers - I'm really not. I used to role-play, I still thoroughly enjoy one-person or multi-player computer games and - for god's sake - I read comic books. I'm hardly in a position to talk. But I guess while I think comic books represent the history of the board, I think I'd be uncomfortable if I thought RPG and computer games were its future... You know?

The idea of a sex forum is really interesting, and not exclusive to barbelith, but again, the temptation to fill it with weird shit would be probably irresistable. Health is kind of interesting as well, but I don't know that there would be the interest in it, and I don't know to what extent it would overlap other categories (mainly the laboratory's medical stuff and the Head Shop's theoretical stuff). The anxiety is, I suppose, that as soon as you make it ok to post fluff as well as content, then the fluff overwhelms the content.

Anyway - this is all academic. We'll vote on the gaming issue as soon as that functionality is in place. Cool? In the meantime, does anyone else have any other ideas?

21:42 / 01.05.02

I'm finding all this "oh it's not appropriate" stuff quite hard to understand.

The development of the Underground from the Nexus into what it is now is VERY expansive; you seem to suggest that it's OK for people who, for whatever reason of interest, to post on ONE topic on the lith but NOT another. Why? They are the kind of people who wish to visit here, be part of the community... but it's a community that only tolerates certain things?

I think the thing that should be remembered is the purpose of this place. And the style.

The thing that makes a forum suitable is not the content.

It's the style of discussion.

We can all have a grown-up chat about movies, linking other references, spinning out other threads as necessary. We tolerate people posting "is this CD any good?", because it usually turns into a good thread. We even have the Conversation, chrissake.

But you want to naysay a forum just because you don't want to talk about it? I'd say the proof will be in the doing it. I completely understand the fact you don't want fora to just perform the functions of similar places on the net, sure; but for sensible, informed, and informative discussion on, say, tabletop or videogaming, isn't this exactly the place something like that is more likely to happen than on some hideous gaming-community site? At least we're going to crossover with our posts.

(Thread rot: And if you're telling me videogames can't communicate emotion, I clearly take it you've never played Planescape:Torment...)

21:43 / 01.05.02

/me points out that he posted just after Tom and thus most of his post is probably irrelevant.

22:14 / 01.05.02

I don't think that RPG's and video games are the future of this place. I don't think anyone knows what the future of this place is, though there seem to be a few who've got very specific ideas. I do think that video and role-playing games represent an area of philosophical and magickal thought that's been neglected here where we talk about such things. I mean, you want fictional reality, RPG and video games give you a universe with it's own physical laws in which to operate and explore. The Invisibles itself turns out to be a total immersion video game at the end of the series. And I realize we've grown past being an Invisibles fan site, but it's a valid example. I for one look forward to the vote.

And I still think a Health and Sexuality forum would be great. If you can't stand fluffy threads, I don't know why you look at them. This is one thing I've never understood, actually. If there's a discussion going on that holds no interest for me, or that I think is a waste of time, I don't waste my time on it. What drives people to comment on things that they're not interested in?

Zoom.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:56 / 01.05.02

And if you're telling me videogames can't communicate emotion, I clearly take it you've never played Planescape:Torment...

Please! A little tact here? I'm still not over it. *Sniffle*

00:43 / 02.05.02

A forum dedicated solely to trolling?!?!

I like the controversy forum idea.

00:52 / 02.05.02

Ah, I don't mean to start anything but ...

... how about a forum for Trolls.

I think some people here are a tad sensative, so why not create a red light district? Somewhere we can shoot off our filthy mouths (be assholes, stir the shit, share edgier stories, whatever) without having to worry about offending anyone.

This board could use more edge ...

(I'll get back to you when I have a more practical idea of what I mean by that. Or what exactly I think a Troll forum would accomplish)

Wow, go away for a day and the place is already smelling of gamer stink -- no offense, I'm a gamer myself, I know that smell -- but as a topic of discussion, gaming is dullsville. It sits somewhere between guys talkin' cars and accountants riffing about tax write offs ...

I vote "no thank you."

03:00 / 02.05.02

Okay, never mind - I went and re-read the Troll definition threads. Scratch the Troll Forum idea ... but I still like the idea of a RED LIGHT DISTRICT ...

Page: 1 2(3)4 5