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Why are you a vegetarian? Or why not ?

 
  

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Cherry Bomb
12:52 / 19.04.02
Last night I saw a highly disturbing Frontline on the American Meat Industry. Needless to say it was stomach curdling, and I even felt sorry for those poor cows going through a detergent bath - it reminded me of "Meat Is Murder," just like Morrissey said.

I'm not being sarcastic, really. Anyway it made me think about vegetarianism. In a way, I would LIKE to be a vegetarian. But then.... I just polished off a breakfast sandwich that included sausage.

I've been thinking a lot lately about my penchant for processed food, and I know some of you live quite healthfully out there. So talk to me - why are you a veggie? Or were you one and decided not to? Try and talk me into becoming one, I'm not sure if I will but I will listen.
 
 
Traz
13:03 / 19.04.02
I went vegetarian for a couple months just to prove I could, but I enjoyed the taste of animal flesh too much to quit for good. Even "Fast Food Nation" wasn't enough to convince me to stop my murderous ways. And sick cartoons like this just make me laugh.
 
 
Spaids
13:23 / 19.04.02
I am not and have never been a vegetarian. I do appreciate the arguments in favour of it, and indeed don't eat meat at every meal(Actually I'm rather sparing with it). The only advice I would give you on the topic is this:
If you feel strongly enough about the plight of animals for the meat trade, go vegetarian. There are plenty of vegetable substitutes from which you can gain the necessary vitamins and mineral etc.
The only thing I've never understood is Vegans. There are proteins and suchlike inherent in cheese, eggs and milk that you cannot get from anywhere else and are somewhat necessary for a healthy life.(someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that front) End of advice, not I expect it do you any good.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:27 / 19.04.02
Speaking for myself. I enjoy the fact that I belong to a omnivorous species which can consume meat, vegetables and industrialized products. Overspecialization leads to extinction, and all that. And the cruelty towards animals bothers me but won't make me stop eating them. We're all trapped in a system where energetic exchange is done through consumption of other living beings, vegetals or animals. What I *do* is use my power as consumer and choose companies with more humane policies regarding animal rights.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:35 / 19.04.02
Vegetarian = weakling.

I believe in, what I like to call, 'The Life of the Strong'. The basic philosophy? Hard, hard men and women enjoying one another, appreciating each others bodies - sexing meat. I mean, in what way is this kind of lifestyle compatible with tofu, mung bean or provamel soya drinks? No, 'The Life of the Strong' is predicated upon gristle, fat and enjoying RICH, STRONG MEAT IN DELICIOUS GRAVY.

C'mon, who really wants to be a weakling? Get w/ the program - enjoy one another. Enjoy 'The Life of the Strong.'
 
 
Shortfatdyke
13:43 / 19.04.02
cherry - if you're munching your way through sausage sandwiches, then perhaps you don't want to be a vegetarian that much. i stopped eating meat because i had to - i couldn't physically bear to eat it. a lot of people have said it happened to them in this way.

i turned veggie after reading a lot of stuff about how animals were killed. i am not at that stage yet regarding turning vegan, but i think if i investigated the industry properly, i would be.

i don't feel sorry for the animals killed for the meat industry. i feel fucking angry.
 
 
Loomis
13:47 / 19.04.02
I went vegan 2 months ago, due mainly to environmental reasons (you can get stats on the net-basically it takes something like 15 times the natural reasources to produce the same amount of meat as plant food- etc etc etc) and also for animal cruelty reasons. Since then I've been doing more research on the net, sites like PETA, etc, and it only confirms my decision. I don't think it's wrong to eat animals, but some of the torture they go through makes me sick. Unless I can guarantee that the animals live in reasonable conditions then I'm going to avoid it.

Although it's early days yet so don't think I'm preaching. But it was soooooo easy to do. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to get all the things you need. And you lose the habit and the taste for animal products so quickly. I was actually amazed at how fast my habits changed. I would never have believed it if someone had told me.
 
 
sleazenation
13:50 / 19.04.02
hmmm interested in looking at the hostility to the meat industry...

Is the eating of dead flesh inherantly wrong? as opposed to say dead plant matter
Is there a way to kill the mant of meat required by the meat industry in a humane manner?
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:50 / 19.04.02
Well, there was egg on it, too, sfd.

Oh don't get me wrong - I love meat. But I'm just thinking about it in terms of lifestyle, etc. I've actually "given up" meat a few times but never for very long, and either strangely or likely due to the folks I hang out with I probably have more veggie friends than non-veg.

But I've just been thinking about the amount of crap that goes into meat, and also the crap that goes into a lot of food. Just thinking about it and curious as to the reasons. My best friend is a vegetarian because the taste of meat just makes her gag, but I have another friend who's veggie because although he loves meat, he thinks that in our modern society the only reason he eats it is because he likes the taste, but there's no reason to contribute to the meat industry, which he has issues with, just because he likes the tates. Then I have another set of friends who went veggie because they thought it was healthier, and actually now they annoy the crap out of me sometimes because they're like born-again christian evangelists when it comes to vegetarianism.

So you see there are many different reasons to give up meat. And I'm interested in yours.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:54 / 19.04.02
Oh I forgot to mention the irony in that I ate some pepporni and sausage pizza while watching the meat industry special. Heh.
 
 
Ariadne
13:56 / 19.04.02
I've been veggie since 1989 and like SFD I find the idea of eating dead stuff grosses me out - and that makes it easy, i suppose.

My reasons - the cruelty involved, general revulsion at corpse-eating, health reasons, the fact it's cheaper, and basically I just 'am' now - it's not something I think about.

Veganism - I've considered it but it's hard to do properly and I'm pretty slapdash in terms of working out a balanced diet.

Be warned, though - If you do go veggie you'll find there's a Runce at every second dinner party, just waiting to get all upset about what you're not eating.
 
 
lolita nation
13:57 / 19.04.02
i say do it. i know very few vegetarians who actively "miss" meat, and this was true even before the advent of meatee tastee snacks -- it seems to happen that after you've stopped eating meat for a while, the idea of eating meat just becomes disgusting. yes: this may be because most people who become vegetarian weren't the biggest meatheads in the first place. but i don't know anyone who has to, like, struggle with it.

and there's plenty of vegetarian junk food out there, anyway, if that's your concern.

i became vegetarian because meat had always bothered me; even when i was a little kid i couldn't eat anything with bones or that had anything dripping out of it that might look like blood. but besides the animal cruelty issue, it has powerful implications for the enviornment. i don't remember the statistics. but the amount of land and water it takes to raise x number of cattle, compared to x number of soybeans, is incredible.

and you'll lose weight and have more energy and feel healthier.
 
 
Captain Zoom
13:58 / 19.04.02
I've been vegetarian about 4 years now. I want to debunk a myth. Just 'cause I don't eat meat doesn't mean I eat healthily. I hate vegetables. I eat 'em occasionally. Most of my food is that soy stuff, Yves veggie meat and shit. I love the taste of meat. However, when I read that about 90% of US chicken inspectors no longer eat chicken, and when I saw some extremely disturbing photos of lab animals I decided that I couldn't do it anymore. I'm of the opinion that we have no more inherent right to be on the planet than any other creature, so why should we kill them? If an animal kills a human, it's put down. If a human kills an animal, they may be fined, but that's about it, and that's only if the killing falls under our definition of "cruel". I can't reconcile that kind of double standard between living creatures. I do my best not to harm anything.

Zoom.
 
 
The Natural Way
14:01 / 19.04.02
Actually, putting 'The Life of the Strong' to one side for the moment (but only for a moment), most veggies I know eat very badly.
 
 
Ariadne
14:03 / 19.04.02
Yeah, most people I know eat badly, veggie or not. Doesn't seem to make much difference.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
14:04 / 19.04.02
yeah that's a point - if you go veggie, cherry, watch out for idiots who go on and on about how cauliflowers and suchlike scream when they're being cut out of the ground. it's a guilt thing.

i try to eat healthy cos of having crohn's disease. but i've certainly put on weight since i turned veggie (tho i'm sure many do from age 14 to 35!).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:06 / 19.04.02
Glad Zoom's pointed that out- the amount of people who've wondered why I live so unhealthily (booze, fags etc) when I'm a vegetarian... Yeah, you CAN eat really healthily and be a vegetarian. I just don't happen to. It's the animal rights issue for me. Health doesn't enter into it.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
16:03 / 19.04.02
I've been vegetarian for 10 years. I started out for environmental reasons (huge amounts of land and water are wasted on producing a small amount of food; the same amount of land and water used for soy or whatever could feed the goddamn planet. Also every single fishery in the world is experiencing a decline in fish stocks due to overfishing. That is really frightening - exactly what would happen to the ecosystem if the fish are gone?). Since then, I learned a lot about other reasons to go veggie, and I support most of them. I do believe that if you want to hunt and kill an animal yourself for the purposes of consumption, that's cool. I'm not so hip with massive animal farms with horrible conditions and lots of chemicals. I also don't eat any dairy that isn't organic (I kind of like yogurt once in a while), because I don't see the point of keeping an animal alive in rather nasty conditions, just to milk it.

RULE #1: Never talk vegetarianism at the dinner table. This is when people will ask, "so why are you vegetarian?" as they chomp on a steak. If you actually tell them why, 99 times out of 100 there's at least one person at the table who can't finish their meal and is thoroughly pissed off. Of course this kind of behaviour is up there with waving a hamburger in my face and saying "mmmm!", as though I might be tempted.

You won't necessarily lose weight as a vegetarian - and you can eat really poorly, although I think I'm the healthiest eater I know. I gained quite a bit of weight eating lots of pasta and rice and grains and chips. I later lost it by switching to fresh vegetables, salad, fruit, hardcore whole-grain bread, granola, ditching white sugar, and taking up more protein. So lately, yes, I've been eating some fish and eggs, but I will be quitting that habit soon. Usually I don't really enjoy eating eggs (since the day I realised it was a chicken's ovum) or fish (there's always the "ewwwwww flesh" voice in the back of my mind that ruins any possible pleasure). Basically for me, the two main points are that a) it is not necessary to kill animals for human consumption, and b) the way farms are run is frequently degrading to the animals and the environment.

As far as health goes, most people don't eat healthily, veggie or otherwise. That's a whole other lifestyle change.
 
 
Thjatsi
16:50 / 19.04.02
I'm still undecided on the question of vegetarianism. Before I can figure out whether or not eating animals is alright, I have to decide which system of ethics I'm going to use. Some forms of utilitarianism, which I like, say that eating animals is bad. However, some other concepts of ethics, which I also really like, say that it's perfectly okay. In addition, before I can figure out ethics for sure, I need to decide which epistemology I'm going to use. So, with a little luck and a whole lot of spare time, I'll be able to figure out the whole vegetarian thing in about twenty-five years. Until then, I'll be eating meat.
 
 
MissLenore
17:06 / 19.04.02
The treatment of the animals is mostly my issue as well. I am not really against eating meat, it's that I don't support the cruelty that befalls these poor animals before being killed. If the animals were kept in decent conditions and treated humanely, as well as killed in a humane, painless way, I would not be as opposed to the consumption of meat.As well, the meat industry contributes to a lot of deforestation, since the land needed for cattle is considerably larger than the land needed for simply growing vegetables. Most people don't realize that part of the reason rainforests are being destroyed is simply for the production of meat. There are any number of reasons for being a vegetarian outside of the actual act of killing an animal, and I think a lot of "meateaters" aren't aware that there are reasons beyond that.
I also agree about how silly people are to ask "so why are you a vegetarian" at the dinner table. It never accomplishes anything but arguments. Not debates, arguments.
 
 
that
17:15 / 19.04.02
I decided to become a vegan at the age of 14 - basically due to the animal cruelty issues. I was an extremely healthy-eating vegan for 4 years, then after fun-with-eating-disorders, started binge-eating and the taboo against animal substances was broken for nearly 3 years. At which point, I became a vegan again, then a vegetarian ('cause I'm lazy). But I am seriously considering becoming a vegan again, because I realise the only reason I am not is because I am not *thinking* about the ramifications of my lacto-ovo veggieness. I am not sure if the ongoing fun-with-eating-disorders mean that it will be more difficult for me/counterproductive at present...but I do think I should become a vegan again, and this time, for life.
 
 
Not Here Still
18:11 / 19.04.02
Been veggie since I was nine, apart from two days where I rebelled against myself because some veggies are so self-righteous it annoyed me (don't ask, weird time.)

Was a scrawny little kid, and am now living the "Life of the Strong" as a veggie (but without the colon full of impacted red meat and the higher chance of heart disease.)

Re the health issue: I figure that, because being veggie means you live a certain number of years longer, I can carry on with my drinking and other bad behaviour for a few more years yet...
 
 
grant
18:13 / 19.04.02
I eat the fish and the eggs and the cheese, but only eat meat once a year (usually on Fat Tuesday).

Initially, there were three overlapping reasons:
1. There was a girl. We went out for a while. She was a vegetarian. I figured I'd return to campus after summer break as a vegetarian, but she stopped talking to me, mysteriously. (not the best breakup strategy, not talking to someone.) Sigh.
2. During that summer, I was visiting family in Germany and South Africa. That's Germany cold cuts for breakfast, sausage for lunch & deer for dinner and South Africa, home of the braai. A braai is like a barbecue, only without the freakin' potato salad. Everywhere we went, uncles were like "oh, the American family is here, we must greet them with a proper braai!" and we'd glut down steak, boerwors (a beef sausage) with the occasional dead chicken to break the monotony. The only relief was when I stayed with Uncle Nick, who was a transcendental meditator and vegetarian. It was such a break, I felt so much better for those two or three days, I decided to try it all the time.
3. I figured it was a good way to build character. It was a sort of my way of refining my self, working on the mind/body interface, whatever. It was about self control. (and this was the most important reason, although the hardest to explain. it's certainly the reason I stuck with it for years.)

Lemme think, that was... uh... 1989.

Sometime after that, the first summer or so, a conservative family friend tried to put the fear in me about "the pernicious anemia," so I decided it might make good health sense to eat a little red meat every once in a while. Once a year seemed easy enough. Reminds me where I come from, what good ribs taste like, that sort of thing.

And since then, I've pretty much come across a lot of the other concerns stated above, so I'm pretty glad to keep with it. It's more efficient, agriculturally, and it's less cruel - less *needlessly* cruel, I should say. Those reasons have risen to the top of the list now.

Though, as I said before, I eat the fish. Most of the ones I get are what you'd call "free range," I suppose. But that's just an excuse. I've killed enough of them in my life that I know where it comes from and how it's done. I just like 'em as food.

I should also mention that I'm not picky about it. If I'm in someone's house (someone who isn't a close friend) and I'm given something with meat in it, I'll eat it. And when I'm places where I don't know the language, it's usually not worth the hassle. I ate a brain curry once thinking it was a well-done cauliflower. Mmm. It registered about halfway through the meal that no way was that a cauliflower and that the consistency was about the same as soft sweetbreads.
 
 
Trijhaos
18:15 / 19.04.02
I don't really have a choice. I either eat what is provided or canned vegetables. I don't know about anybody else, but the thought of eating canned vegetables day in and day out turns my stomach. Given a choice, I probably wouldn't be vegetarian, I like meat a bit too much to do a complete 180. When I am given a choice of meats, I choose white meat such as chicken or fish over steak. You can do wonderful things with chicken and fish, but no matter what you do with steak it always tastes like steak.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:44 / 19.04.02
Yeah, but steak tastes damn good. Most of the time.

I thought about becoming a vegetarian, just because the idea of having that kind of control over my diet was appealing. But I love steak and chicken too much to be able to stick to it.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
20:48 / 19.04.02
I stopped being evangelical about vegetarianism a long time ago (pisses a lot of people off, it does), but this thread has got me thinking about it again. From an environmental point of view, I find eating meat completely unethical. Is it enough that I don't eat cow and buy nike shoes? What the hell difference does it make if everyone around me is still buying McDonalds food and consuming exploitative goods like there's no tomorrow (hint, hint)? Eating meat is not so repulsive that I don't do it for lack of taste; I would if I could possibly find it in my own heart to forgive myself. But hell, why should I recycle and buy organic food if everyone around me is dooming my progeny along with their own?

Fuck it, I'm really moving to the arctic circle. And I'm going to grow it and catch it myself.
 
 
Captain Zoom
21:03 / 19.04.02
I used to be quite the preacher myself, and if someone challenges me on it, I can still pull out the chops. (No pun intended) But my wife pointed out to me that I hated it when someone tried to convince me of the rightness of their religion/philosophy or what have you and I hated the idea that I sounded so pompous and preachy. I've often thought of becoming more proactive in animal rights, but let's be honest, as with most things I'd like to be more proactive in, my life gets in the way. And if it were really that important to me I'd find a way of integrating it.

On the other hand, if everyone changed there'd be a quiet revolution. That's what I live in hope of.

Zoom.
 
 
Reason
21:41 / 19.04.02
I was vegetarian for about 5 years while I was backpacking around the world for the simple reason of expense and I simply wouldn't risk it. But when I came home, got married and found myself pregnant, my body screamed "Steak, raw, now!" and that was that. My son is three now and I still have the odd Meat indulgence. I don't really know enough about the world and the cruelty bits, but I do feel strongly about the health bits. Having worked in a health food store I found out all sorts of ailments were relieved by cutting out meat from your diet. I personally know that my body doesn't like overindulgence too much. I can feel the difference. I also tend to lean to healthy stuff like raw fruits and veggies. Those are treats for me. Processed food= gross and salty for me. All I can suggest is try it. You might like it. It's not like you have to be 100% anything. A little healthier lifestyle is still a little healthier.

Reason.
 
 
Wyrd
00:36 / 20.04.02
I went vegetarian nearly 7 years ago. I wasn't new to the concept as my brother had been vegetarian for several years before that, but he was very evangelical about it and that put me off the idea. What happened is that I met several people who were vegetarian and they cooked food for me, and I realised that it wasn't just salads, and in fact, it was very tasty.

Then, I asked myself why I ate meat. I was quite shocked to realise that I had never asked myself that question. I also realised that the main reason I ate meat was that I had always eaten meat. Considering I'm a believer in questioning assumptions and looking at societal conditioning, I was frankly astonished that I'd never thought seriously about the issue.

There were a whole bunch of reasons that I finally decided to go vegetarian, political, spiritual, environmental, etc., but I've never regetted it. I've much healthier diet, on the whole, now that I had before, but it took several years to get the combination of foods right. My brother is now Vegan, and I'm far too up to date on all the political issues around Vegetarianism/Veganism.

I've never been preachy about vegetarianism, and in fact it can be a real chore at times, including the people who immediately get defensive as soon as it comes up that you are vegetarian. Oh, and trying to eat in certain countries is fun - Germany is not great for vegetarians, and in fact, America doesn't rate very well either. Vegetarianism in the USA still seems to have a kind of label on it as if it's a somewhat freaky lifestyle choice.
 
 
The Monkey
02:47 / 20.04.02
I still exist in that mindset that the consumption of meat is a priveledge and a delicacy, not a daily-excercised right. Then again, I've also slaughtered and prepared animals myself...which would the few times in my not-so-picturesque Siberian childhood that meat would be served. There is almost a - no, there is - a reverence for the animal that dies for your meal. Now older, in America and less likely to starve, I still sometimes eat meat even though I have not prepared it, but cannot help but think about the animal that died.
I find both excesses of American behavior; the thoughtless consumption of meat and the brittle prosyletizing of vegetarianism, to be symptomatic of people who have always had a choice, thus see significance in exercising or not exercising it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:41 / 20.04.02
I've never been evangelical about it really. The other question that I always get, though, is "how do you justify feeding your dog meat if you're a vegetarian"? The answer being, of course, that it's ME that's the vegetarian. Not Biscuits.
 
 
that
10:20 / 20.04.02
Is your dog really called Biscuits?

No...evangelical veganism was never on my agenda. However, I usually found that most animal lovers in particular talked themselves into a total guilt trip. Saved me a lot of work.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:22 / 20.04.02
Yes she is... it's a long story. (Originally she was gonna be called Colonel Kurtz... or Jihad.) I tend to find it's non-veggies who draw you out on it, get you to justify yourself, and then accuse you of preaching.
 
 
that
10:25 / 20.04.02
[threadrot] Cute. (Dog name, I mean. Not non-vegetarians.) [/threadrot]
 
 
Sax
14:09 / 20.04.02
I know it's wrong, but I do it anyway - like so much in life. Eating meat, that is. Don't tend to eat masses of red meat, but I don't suppose that matters in the scheme of things - I'm still eating corpse-meat (thanks for that image, Ariadne).

I did turn vegetarian for six months once about 10 years ago, but that was purely an attempt to get a girl into bed, I'm afraid.

I'd like to be vegetarian ideally, but I'd also like to pack in smoking, not drink as much and go to the gym a bit more often. I guess the other stuff will come first, and to be honest I can't see myself giving up lamb chops for a long time. Sorry.
 
  

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