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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

The West Wing

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Keith, like a scientist

17:59 / 03.04.06

i'm trying to think of someone appropriate for the new VP...was anyone notable missing from that future segment at the beginning of the season premiere?

Oh...I got it: Seaborn. I'm betting that is what is going to happen.

Josh's breakdown was quite...annoying at first, but it made sense the more I think about it.

19:20 / 03.04.06

When the "future segement" aired in the opening episode of this season, the obvious take was that Josh's arrival announcing the President meant that Santos won the election. TOO obvious. So I guessed that something had happened to Santos (assassination? resigned over a scandal?), and that Leo was now Prez.

Sadly, Spencer's death routed that theory. It's possible that Vinnick, a decent, middle-of-the-road Republican, wins, and hires Josh as his Chief of Staff.

Keith, like a scientist

15:51 / 10.04.06

Well...in a move that was probably not very shocking, at long last, after nigh on two seasons of campaigning, we've got a winner.

SPOILER

Santos.

And it looks like we will get the proper send off to John Spencer next week, on Easter, oddly. They don't tend to run first run episodes on holidays. I'm still betting on Seaborn as VP candidate.

07:32 / 11.04.06

Interesting episode. West Wing has been amazing recently and last week was one hell of a first part, but this episode seemed a little flat and weird to me. The whole thing with Leo being performed on screen confused me a lot - how much of this is genuine emotion? If so, does it feel right to use it on screen like this? How many episodes have we got left now? Four? Five? Where do you go from here? This can't be the emotional highlight of the plotlines - we've got five weeks left. There's got to be some other major plot incident or two, and then maybe a farewell to Bartlett episode? Perhaps we skip forward back to the beginning of the series a couple of episodes from the end - have one building up the context to the scenes we saw in the first episode and then the final one is what happens afterwards?

Psi-L is working in hell

09:26 / 11.04.06

I had similar feelings about the on-screen emotions of the cast. I couldn't help wondering how much of it was real...it made it all the more upsetting to watch for me.

I have really enjoyed the last few episodes of this last series though, after what I felt was a dip in quality after series 6...I'm guessing that after Leo's funeral next week, we get a couple of episodes on the transition period, so maybe Santos picking his new West Wing staff (and VP - I'm also with Keith H on the Seabourne idea) and the old cast deciding where they go next. And then posssibly finishing with the inaugeration of Santos in the final ep? Though I guess that wouldn't work with revisiting the scene from the beginning of the series would it, as he's already the president there?

Presumably they also have to finish up the Toby storyline which was left hanging in the first part of the election episode...

Tryphena Absent

11:16 / 11.04.06

Toby was RIGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTT.

Tryphena Absent

11:17 / 11.04.06

I've just read about 5 spoilers in this thread (I'm watching it on More4) but I don't care if I'm behind. I spent a good proportion of last night yelling at President Bartlett. You need to know that.

Psi-L is working in hell

11:34 / 11.04.06

We have asked for the title of this thread to be changed to reflect its spoilery nature....for those More4 viewers who unlike you might care.

Keith, like a scientist

11:53 / 11.04.06

I don't think we will see the transition. That would probably be sort of boring, and since the show isn't continuing, they don't really need to set up the next adminstration. I'm guessing, we'll get mostly Bartlett and co. in the WW stuff until the final episode, which will be mostly about inauguration with the future flashback framing device at Bartlett's presidential library.

I'm hoping it'll be lots of episodes of heartfelt goodbyes and people moving like the final stretch of Babylon 5 that made me (confession) cry week after week.

Keith, like a scientist

11:57 / 11.04.06

oh, and, as for Spencer's death being dealt with on screen....hmm...I'm fine with it, honestly. I wish that Sorkin had been writing it, because he hired Spencer and made that role to fit him, and probably would have done a nicer job. But this was a role that Spencer, by all accounts, loved and felt was important in his career, so there is some justice to him being lauded on screen as a character he acted the hell out of and in real life as the actor and person.

it gives us fans a chance to participate in mourning and honoring him, as well. something, as a rabid and loyal viewer, i feel privileged to do.

12:33 / 11.04.06

how much of this is genuine emotion?

Try watching Jed + Leo = Ennis + Jack.

Makes the show a whole lot more watchable, and heartbreaking.

Psi-L is working in hell

12:46 / 11.04.06

I'm never going to be able to watch the West Wing in the same way again....

13:06 / 11.04.06

As if you didn't already watch BRAVO religiously.

Please.

Psi-L is working in hell

13:20 / 11.04.06

I wasn't saying that I'm never going to watch it again, only that the Leo/Jed dynamic will forever be changed...am unconvinced whether this is for the better or worse?!

But sadly us Englanders don't get BRAVO, but I solve this inconvenience by instead owning it all on DVD for my viewing pleasure, it is still the thing I put on when there is nothing else to watch on tv...nothing beats the Sorkin years.

Keith, like a scientist

18:18 / 17.04.06

I'm not really any good at the writing stuff, but I feel like I could have written a better send off for Leo than last night's funeral episode. Sheesh! Aside from the final moments with Bartlett and the gang upstairs, and Sheen's lovely delivery of "He loved you like a son, you know." to Josh, it was kind of...eh, cold all around.

13:37 / 18.04.06

No episode featuring CJ and Danny making with the sex talk could ever be cold.

14:03 / 18.04.06

I was hoping for President Bartlett to go to his closet and pull out an apricot shirt, wrapped up in one of his own blazers.

But yeah. As far as the episode flow went, I wanted more actual funeral talk. That first scene featured EVERYBODY. Ainsley, the Bartlett gals, Mallory, Joey Lucas, Senator Andy and Toby, Danny, Hoynes, Amy, Nancy McNally, the VP...

I was hpping they'd have called Lord John, Cliff Calley, Mandy, Sam, and Jordan Kendall.

14:40 / 18.04.06

Yeah, I too missed Lord John in that episode. He really belonged in the scene when they were telling Leo stories.

I'm wondering if they couldn't have Sam in this episode, because they wanted to play up his return in the ads for next week's....

Keith, like a scientist

16:52 / 18.04.06

oh, you know what really bugged me about the way they played Leo's death in general?...the strange calmness and small screen time of Margaret. Margaret always had this mother-ly attitude towards Leo, and she didn't really have much screen time or anything to say. They seemed very close...she wasn't even upstairs with Bartlett!

I dunno. in general, it just seemed disrespectful to spend so much time on Santos this episode. I can't help but wonder what Sorkin's handling of this would have been. Probably more emotional and poignant, I'm guessing.

It seems that my Seaborn as VP theory might be in error, judging from the previews.

17:28 / 18.04.06

Vinick for VP.

They'll end this series with a smugstorm of the century.

17:45 / 18.04.06

"You're an odd woman and I've never quite understood you. But you are extremely capable and you run this office like a Swiss watch --- and you're tall which is reassuring. Leo may need you and if he does, that's okay. But if he's willing to part with you, I hope you'll stay."

Margaret is one of the funniest parts of West Wing.

Keith, like a scientist

19:52 / 18.04.06

I'm thinking more of the episode where she frets about him drinking due to his divorce papers coming, and at the end he says "I'm going home, Margaret."

She looks at him apprehensively and says "Well, ok, then."

"You're a good girl." And it gives her this little smile and the implication is that that small compliment means a lot to her.

03:43 / 19.04.06

Oh Lord. I stopped watching when Aaron Sorkin left, so everything in this past season seems like a slap in the face. Not trying to offend anyone, but I hate the treatment of Leo's character (especially in this season). All of his strength and conviction was drained.

But...
"The Iranians, they're taking to the streets!"

Also, does anyone miss Bonny and Ginger? I'm defensive about those characters, because Kim Webster went to my school.

08:49 / 19.04.06

Yeah, but on the other hand he was ill and not a political campaigner. I have to say I'll agree that there was a significant decline in quality in the middle of the show after Sorkin left (season five? Early season six?) but I'd defy anyone to say that it's not been mostly firing on all cylinders for the last twenty or thirty episodes. Only a couple of dud episodes, some really interesting political stuff and I've loved the Alan Alda / Jimmy Smitts storylines, even if it did cut into my Martin Sheen time, which always sucks. In some ways, I think Leo's gradual decline through the series is probably quite interesting and thematic - Bartlett's "we're the past" speech was fascinating on that account. If you look at it in those terms you've got the glory days of the old guard and the discovery and manifestation of the next generation shown to you on screen - probably personified in Donna and Leo - one who comes into her own and one whose time has passed. I really think it hangs together pretty well overall.

00:04 / 24.04.06

Is there going to be a new continuation series after this one?

00:11 / 24.04.06

This is the last season, so it's kinda great that everybody is getting a happy ending. Sam might actually be marrying the prostitute from season 1, which would be great, cause I liked her at least.

And I told ya so with Vinick VP.

Keith, like a scientist

12:34 / 24.04.06

Chad, about Sam and the prostitute (Laurie)....holy crap, you might be right. However, she already passed the bar in DC...so his comment about her having to take it again....doesn't quite wash, right?

Anyway, I still don't believe it will end with Vinick as VP, last night's preview or no. Since they showed it in the preview, I tend to think it's misdirection.

Donna + Josh being together makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Oh how I hate myself for that.

14:18 / 24.04.06

I don't know enough about law to know whether Laurie has to pass bars everywhere she moves, I just thought since they're bringing back EVERYBODY, Laurie would be a nice face to see.

As for misdirected Vinick 4 VP... what about Bartlett for Vice? They work well together.

14:58 / 25.04.06

I don't know enough about law to know whether Laurie has to pass bars everywhere she moves, I just thought since they're bringing back EVERYBODY, Laurie would be a nice face to see.

As for misdirected Vinick 4 VP... what about Bartlett for Vice? They work well together.

You're right about the bar, I believe. A lawyer has to pass the bar in each state they wish to practice in.

However unless you mean Abby Bartlett, you're off on the VP. Jed couldn't be VP because he's already served the maximum two terms as President. A VP has to be able to assume a full four-year term in case anything happens to the POTUS.

Keith, like a scientist

11:55 / 02.05.06

And I told ya so with Vinick VP.

Ha!
(Sorry).

Vinick as Secretary of State makes a lot of sense. Everyone has always talked about how well liked he is by everyone. That job certainly needs a congenial person with a head on their shoulders.

So...no Sam, no Josh, no Donna this week. Kind of bummed me out. But I did like the Helen dynamic to this episode. Almost makes me wish we would be seeing the "Santos Years."

Looking forward to more Toby appearances, and hopefully some sort of reconcilation with Jed to bridge the gap to the 'future segment.'

18:05 / 02.05.06

So waitaminute. Vinick was up against Nancy f'n McNally for the Secretary of State position? And he went with Hawkeye?

Santos said she'd make a better what again?

Keith, like a scientist

18:14 / 02.05.06

UN Ambassador

18:28 / 02.05.06

Looking forward to more Toby appearances, and hopefully some sort of reconcilation with Jed to bridge the gap to the 'future segment.'

Yeah, me too. I'm thinking that the reconciliation will all come down to who Toby's protecting. Assuming it was either Abby or Leo that leaked the info to Toby, I think Jed will forgive him.

18:45 / 02.05.06

I thought it was clear to everyone that it was CJ who blabbed, thinking his brother had already informed him.

Keith, like a scientist

18:59 / 02.05.06

hmm...I never really thought that Toby was protecting anyone except for his brother's name now that his brother is dead. I think that was addressed in the last Toby episode, where the AG was trying to make a deal.

The CJ angle always struck me as misdirection from the writers. Perhaps I'm wrong, though.

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