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Brass Eye question

 
  

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Opalfruit
11:59 / 27.07.01
Hmmm. Well the Sun's going to try and blow this one out of proportion.

I found there was a slight edgyness to a lot of the programme - is it me but did a lot of the Cast come across as slightly nervous in places?

...I'm wondering if Chris Morris will be able to weather through the Backlash that's going to follow, I know they expect it but ...I think it's going to be hefty, what with the 'Sun' stirring it's Zombies up... I mean these are people who lynch Paediatrists (can't remember how to spell) because they thought it meant Paedophile...

Things could get horrible... or they'll just forget about in a week, much like they do everything else...
 
 
invisible_al
12:26 / 27.07.01
Apparently Channel 4/ Broadcasting complaints commission have had about 500 complaints about the show.
I think I might e-mail channel 4 with a nice letter, see if people can balence out the complaints :-)
 
 
higuita
12:36 / 27.07.01
Three of us here reckon the Edmong section is in the 'society' issue programme, which we think will be the last shown.
Hell, we could be wrong.
 
 
Jamieon
13:23 / 27.07.01
I don't understand, Rothkoid; am I part of the cover up too? Or have I been lied to by these people? Or are they not in the possession of the whole story?

I can clear that up by stating, categoricaly, that I'm not lying and they're not lying - and I *know* that inasmuch as anyone can know that the people they love and trust aren't lying to them. My mother et al wouldn't get misinformed because A. She knows where all the money goes (she gets Morris all the money), and would be the first to be told if any of it were going to celebrities to pay them off (they would receive a fee if they knew they're bit wasn't for a genuine charity), or the channel 4 PR department; and B. Because she helps deal with all the legal wrangling that goes on and it's her job to know if the celebrity thing is a hoax; and C. Because the other people I know who work on the show were still dubbing mixing a night before it was originally supposed to air, because Morris was desperate to get it past the lawyers and the censors; and D. Because they're friends with Morris and he has no reason to bullshit them.

What I find frustrating about your posts is this idea that "hey man, I've got this opinion, you've got yours". Your opinion differs from mine in that it has nothing but a gut feeling to back it up. I'm in possession of certain facts which you evade by refusing to even get in the ring. Your argument amounts to:

"But why should I believe you, I don't know you...."

And then you can then ignore everything I have to say.

It's fine to have an opinion, Rothkoid, but at least allow someone to contest it. Can't you see how frustrating that logic is? It prevents any discussion regarding the matter. At least consider the idea that all the people I've mentioned (including myself) aren't lying....

All I can say is: If this stuff IS going on it must be fucking covert.

Please don't respond with "Hey man, that's just your opinion" without engaging with any of the points I've raised. It's insulting to the whole notion of debate.
 
 
Fist Fun
13:27 / 27.07.01
Making celebrities do stupid things is just Beadle's About with famous people. Hugely entertaining as it is.
 
 
Opalfruit
13:37 / 27.07.01
Well that means if they try and string Chris Morris up, we can go after Beadle....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:46 / 27.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Buk:
Making celebrities do stupid things is just Beadle's About with famous people. Hugely entertaining as it is.


Have you ever seen an episode of Brasseye? If so, do you not think that it makes some very good points about the nature of today's "serious" media, political ignorance, the culture of celebrity and ill-informed scaremongering (whether this be with drugs, paedophiles, the collapse of society)?
 
 
Jamieon
13:47 / 27.07.01
quote: Making celebrities do stupid things is just Beadle's About with famous people. Hugely entertaining as it is.

Actually, I kind of agree with you. With a team of good, convincing researchers, some very fast talking and what looks like official evidence it wouldn't be that hard to dupe a celeb or a politician. It doesn't mean they're necessarily cunts or dumb, or any of that - just that they're fallible and as open to fucking up as anyone. I'm not sure Morris is really proving anything with these stunts; except, maybe that celebrities etc are as dinny as anyone else - that they exist in three dimensions, etc. I'm not so sure that, if I was in their shoes, I wouldn't fall for one of Morris's scams.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
13:59 / 27.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Jamieon:
I'm not so sure that, if I was in their shoes, I wouldn't fall for one of Morris's scams.


Oh, come on. Last night's new show was full of things that were so obviously untrue (the Hall and Oates pictures, the "HOACS" acronym, "No Offenc" - which incorporated "No Offence, No Offence, No Offence and No Fanks") that I was convinced that this was Morris showing, once and for all and not without a certain degree of frustration, that certain members of the media and those in authority do NOT pay attention to what they're told to say. I think that those not filled with their own self-importance so much would realise that they're not above being lied to or manipulated, and, you know... actually wonder if wearing a special t-shirt makes you look like a child online.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:02 / 27.07.01
>>I'm not sure Morris is really proving anything with these stunts<<

But something like the "cake" episode surely calls into question the way that (a lot of) people assume that politicians know what they're talking about when they condemn drug use, doesn't it? Anyone who's read the Daily Mail will know that some of the stuff 'reported' in there is almost as divorced from reality as the whole "joss ackland's spunky backpack" stuff...

Or is it just me who thinks there's a point to Brasseye?

Guys? Guys?

[ 27-07-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
14:35 / 27.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Jamieon:


Actually, I kind of agree with you. With a team of good, convincing researchers, some very fast talking and what looks like official evidence it wouldn't be that hard to dupe a celeb or a politician. It doesn't mean they're necessarily cunts or dumb, or any of that - just that they're fallible and as open to fucking up as anyone. I'm not sure Morris is really proving anything with these stunts; except, maybe that celebrities etc are as dinny as anyone else - that they exist in three dimensions, etc. I'm not so sure that, if I was in their shoes, I wouldn't fall for one of Morris's scams.


Yeah, to me the brass eye celebrity bits are almost like a variation on stanley milgram's famous experiment (where ordinary people were asked to apply increasingly large electric shocks to what they believed was another person- electrocuting them past the point where they pass out- just because they were told to by a scientist.) Brass Eye isn't much different: when you combine the desire of the celebrities to help out a good cause, the ego-fellating that must go on 'yeah, as a DJ (bruno brooks), the kids are going to listen to you more when it comes to the DANGEROUS drug called Cake' (possibly slightly in denial about what a laughing stock they are in the eyes of the public) and the amount of seemingly legitimate information they (may have) recorded which wasn't included in the final show.
But that said: HEAVY ELECTRICITY??? H.O.A.C.S???? Maybe they are stupid after all.
 
 
Ellis
14:47 / 27.07.01
"A paedophile has more genes in common with a crab than you or me."

Doctor Fox...

"Now thats scientific fact, there's no real evidence for it, but its scientific fact."

Christ...


I hope they repeat Blue Jam now, I never got to see that first time around.
 
 
Jamieon
14:53 / 27.07.01
quote: Yeah, to me the brass eye celebrity bits are almost like a variation on stanley milgram's famous experiment (where ordinary people were asked to apply increasingly large electric shocks to what they believed was another person- electrocuting them past the point where they pass out- just because they were told to by a scientist.)

Y'know, that Miller experiment was precisely what I was thinking about when I concocted my last post. But, reading it again, I'm beginning to think that it wasn't very well thought out. I DO believe there's a point to Brasseye. I don't just think it's 'Beadle's About' with celebrities. I just wanted to debunk the idea that we'd all be immune to falling prey to one of Morris's scams.

And yes, the CAKE thing made a very important point indeed.
 
 
Ria
15:13 / 27.07.01
germane to the post... like any other media person he can select only clips of celebrities he actually did fool.

less germane to... heard a snippet on college radio yesterday.

an English-accented male voice supposedly selling sexually suggestive videos of guard dogs attacking people("every if you don't have the courage to own such a dog, you must purchase this...") to a soundtrack of woozy ambient music. I phoned up the DJ to ask where he got this from suspecting that if came from "Blue Jam". he seemed confused by the question and I don't know if he gave me the right answer when he told me Captain Sensible. a Captain Sensible song from a new CD followed. anyway... very Chris Morris and I still don't know...

[ 27-07-2001: Message edited by: Kriztalyne ]
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:35 / 27.07.01
The piece of 'art' showing a dog with a relatively oversized cock and the head of a small child made me choke on my apple & blackcurrant dilute.

That's all I wanted to say. Carry on arguing.
 
 
invisible_al
16:54 / 27.07.01
Channel 4's viewer comment line is 020 7306 8333.

You can leave a message about Brass Eye on their answer phone. Lets see if we can get a few postive comments on there :-)
 
 
rizla mission
17:05 / 27.07.01
What with fucking S4C, I don't actually get to see Brass Eye or Jam at all.

"who's this Morris fellow then, boyo? His name sounds a bit Welsh, shall we put him on?"

"Noo, he's just some filthy comedian. Let's commision another soap opera about sheep farmers in Llandudno"



I did buy the Blue Jam CD recently though, and I love it. Some of the best satire I've ever heard. Makes me grin daggers and cackle like Monty Burns.

a thought:

Wouldn't it be great if some gang of cutting edge new comedians carried out a diabolically clever scheme to humiliate Chris Morris on live TV ... thus firing the opening shot of THE SATIRE WARS!
 
 
Fist Fun
17:29 / 27.07.01
I think tricking celebrities into doing stupid things makes very entertaining television. It becomes more than that if you think that the opinion of Bruno Brooks or Phil Collins is worth anymore than that of you or me.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:02 / 27.07.01
No, it is more than that because a large number of people do think that the opiniom of celebrities is woth more than yours or mine, and Brasseye shows this up for the nonce sense it is.
 
 
Ellis
19:14 / 27.07.01
The celebrity gags are similar to the Gotcha Oscars done by Noels house party. Only without Mr. Blobby.
 
 
Ganesh
19:26 / 27.07.01
Except that there's no har-de-har 'what a good sport' closure for the celebs concerned. 'Brass Eye' is fundamentally different from other shows in that there isn't that whiff of collusion; there's an edge of nastiness, of wanting to rubbish crappy, stupid bandwagonning people - whether members of the public (as in the intensely peer-pressured Paedo Focus Group) or witless celebrities.
 
 
rizla mission
08:26 / 28.07.01
yes.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
08:49 / 28.07.01
sigh...
BBC News report on Brass Eye complaints

The good thing is that Morris himself doesn't appear to get worried about media fury at his work. And I remember someone at C&B saying that after the Daily Mail made a big complaint when BE was first shown that they phoned the newspaper up and asked if they would like to have a debate about it that they could print up in the paper. There was a moments silence at the end of the line and then Daily Mail hack admitted that they didn't care about the show and had just been told to write something going on about how terrible it was.
 
 
Ellis
08:49 / 28.07.01
I wonder whether people like Brass Eye because they think its good, or just say they like it because they know it pisses off a lot people...


I also wonder whether Chris Morris made this to prove a point or just to shock...

[ 28-07-2001: Message edited by: Ellis ]
 
 
Mordant Carnival
08:49 / 28.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
I hope they repeat Blue Jam now, I never got to see that first time around.


Neither did anyone else- it was on the radio.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
10:01 / 28.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
I wonder whether people like Brass Eye because they think its good, or just say they like it because they know it pisses off a lot people...


Probably depends on who you ask, I guess, although I think that the show definitely has a lot more "real" fans than that comment seems to imply.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:54 / 28.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Mordant Carnival:
Neither did anyone else- it was on the radio.

And if you've got a fuck-off speed connection, you can download most of them (some are being remastered, and are unavailable) on MP3 from here. They weigh in at about 65mb per ep.

You can download the special (80mb or so, DivX encoded) here, too.
 
 
Ellis
18:02 / 28.07.01
I'm sure there was a program called Jam or Jaaaam on Channel 4, wasn't that by Chris Morris?
 
 
Scrubb is on a downward spiral
10:32 / 29.07.01
Blue Jam - original show on Radio.
Jam - TV version of BJ, on Channel 4a few years later.

There's Jam in every media, kids.
 
 
Pin
23:18 / 29.07.01
Was Jam actually any good, though? I seem to remember it being shit...
 
 
CameronStewart
23:42 / 29.07.01
I think (Blue) Jam is Morris at his best.

I ask again - is there anyone who can make a copy of the Brass Eye Special for me?

I've already been able to see it - thank you Mister Internet - but I'd like a VHS copy to enrage friends with.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:42 / 29.07.01
I have done, Cameron. Email me yer address.
 
 
Jamieon
10:47 / 30.07.01
Well, well...

Look at the furore this'ns provoked.

I'm sick of the way that the press insists on describing the Brasseye special as a "satire of paedophilia", when it is quite clear that the show's aim was to satirize the media and the culture of hysteria that surrounds it. Depending on historical location, the "subject matter" - Paedophilia - could have been replaced by any number of issues that've provoked the public and the press into violent, prejudicial anger and sensationalism. The point here is that the *subject* of the programme's neither here nor there - it's the crazy reaction that it produced that's the real issue; and this is what Morris wants to address: crazy reactions.....

It's ironic that a show that set out to satirize hysteria ended up generating so much of it. The Brasseye Special strikes me as a vision of the way an alien might interpret the demented behaviour of the press and the general public when confronted with issues too difficult, too important and, perhaps, too close to the bone, for stupid, silly human beings to properly engage with/tackle. I don't pretend that I (being as stupid and silly as anyone else) can offer any reasonable solutions to a problem like child abuse, but, equally, I'm 100% certain that the voyeuristic, Hollywood narratives spewed by the tabloid press regarding this matter; the crazed demonising; the estates on the march against the omnipresent threat of child rapists; the desperate, bored, attempts to feel - to experience catharsis - present on the death wreaths of Sarah Payne ("So senseless, so wasteful.... WHY?", etc.) and the increased sentences for sex offenders are entirely inappropriate and do very little to combat the problem. People get their rocks off through a little bit of fear and loathing, and the press makes some cash, but really, all this stuff? It's as insane as Brasseye, which only sets out to condense and describe the experience of a culture enjoying one of the darker pleasures of media overload.

It disturbs me that, as a society, we are so aculturated within this dangerous, tabloid mediasphere that we are completly unable to recognize the insane, hyperbolic ramblings of the press and our corresponding reactions, etc. for what they are; but cringe and scream "despicable!", "disgusting!", "outrageous" when confronted with our grotesque reflection.

We live inside a culture that has ceased to be able to distinguish between 2d Hollywood narratives peopled with "goodies" and "baddies" and clear distinctions between "right" and "wrong", and the subtle, challenging, complex problems presented to us by the realm of the 3d. Objectivity collapses, and we can no longer be sure where the boundary between the voyeuristic enjoyment derived from the violent action film; the crisis laden soap, etc. ends and the business of our fleshy lives begins. The BBC recently aired a cop drama "dealing" with the issue of child murder. It reduced this horrific subject to an exciting, "emotionally complex" two parter. In what way is this form of idic tourism any better than Brasseye? Unlike Brasseye it has no agenda, except to entertain, and, as a result, it only serves to hypocritically celebrate the serious issues it allegedly *attempts* to address. In contrast, Brasseye is honest about the "evil", libidinous undercurrents roaring untamed beneath the surface of our culture/media. It makes the darkness visible, forcing us, if we have the stomach for it, to deal with the blackest areas of the popular/individual psyche.

The child abuser is amoungst us dressed in our skin and our stories, and what has been our reaction to this revelation? To call him "the other", to string him up and brush him under the carpet. The government pushes for the ITC to take stronger measures to prevent us from raising this demon again.

Someone's recently threatened the Channel 4 building with detonation. The Star's "named and shamed" those resposible for the programme. One of these people I know reasonably well, and my Mother works at Channel 4.

[ 30-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Pin
10:58 / 30.07.01
Fuck me!

I've only just seen the actual media reaction (the canteen at my work has been lagging in it's tabloid stocks recently, and I spend most of my time asleep anyway, but I just caught the 1 O'Clock news) and it's plain dumb. Instead of thinking "Hang on, we're being calle idiots. Maybe we should do something about this," they've tried to ban it. It's pathetic.

Jamieon, how are C4 taking this? And does anyone here think that Morris will never work again? There's no way, after this, that celebrities will fall for it. Oh no. Wait... Yeah, pay them. That'll do it.

I don't know why i'm even shocked at the way tabloids are so annoyed at this... They must know everyone was having a laugh at their expeanse and are tyring to find a way to get out of the attack. Or have they just not forgotten "Cake" and are out for revenge?
 
 
Jamieon
11:40 / 30.07.01
As far as I know C4 are sticking by the programme.

I was told, months before the show aired, that Morris thought the Brasseye Special would serve as the capstone to his TV career. He knew the public weren't gonna dig this'n. There was some talk of him going into the movies.

Which'd be nice.
 
  

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