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Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

 
  

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Kali, Queen of Kitteh
09:42 / 13.04.08
Well, I really didn't want to nitpick the whole bit of "but if you're inside a volcano, then the air of filled with poisonous gases and your life expectancy pretty much nil , if not considerably shorter" but I let it go. Kind of.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:32 / 13.04.08
Aha - aha! Classic Shakespeare-esque historical number. Yes yes. Made a happy ARR.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:38 / 13.04.08
Andrew Rilstone had some interesting things to say about Partners in Crime:

So: let's cast aside my fan goggles and try to watch 'Partners in Crime', not as part of a thing called Doctor Who but as 45 minutes of TV intended to fill the gap between The Weakest Link and I'd Do Anything.


I think that what the straight viewer would see would be a situation comedy. The long drawn out opening gag, in which one character is looking for the other, but keeps missing him, despite the fact that he's only ten feet away, is the kind of thing you'd get in cleverly timed seaside farces or Carry On films. The main characters are broadly drawn comic 'types': there's the working class girl with the mockney accent, day dreaming about the one that got away; her nagging mother; her bonkers, dishevelled grandfather and the sinister company director who's part Anne Robinson and part bondage queen, explicitly compared with Supernanny. (Women in powerful jobs are both sinister and funny.) Only the science journalist, (this week's Highest Ranking Sympathetic Supporting Character) is played straight. The Doctor himself, of course, is hardly even a character, more a grinning collection of comic mannerisms: Basil Fawlty rather than Inspector Morse.


The opening scenes of 'Rose' said to the viewer: "These characters behave like people in a soap opera: please take them seriously". The opening scenes of 'Partners in Crime' said "These characters behave like people in a sit-com: please don't".


Etcetera. Good analysis even if you don't entirely agree with it and find yourself saying that the first ep was meant to be comedy.

Now, there's something more worrying that Rilstone picks up on, to do with Russel's apparent penchant for breaking important rules and being ironic and postmodern. I think he has a point. I have disliked these parts of the new series. In fact, more generally, I dislike most things which are labelled as post-modern simply because the dog is never a real dog, it's a symbol or a joke and you aren't meant to take it seriously or ask how glossy is its fur (only an idiot, living in a cave where there was no Media, would do that). It's a bit like bad Victorian poetry or those translations of classical literature done during the renaissance where you weren't supposed to enjoy the story but appreciate which characters represetned which virtues, which Shakespeare thankfully kicked against. All this may be controversial.

Anyway, the good thing is, that the Romans one I've just watched now on the BBC iplayer took the ideas in it seriously.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:45 / 13.04.08
E.G.:

The straight viewer will not understand, nor even listen to, the explanation that supernanny gives about what the cute little aliens are, but since it hardly makes any sense at all, that won't matter. - Rilstone

Whereas it did matter what the Pyro-persons were, and the scary stone high-priestess was genuinely nasty.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:32 / 13.04.08
Yeah, and the eyes on the hands bit was pretty creepy and also neat. It reminded me a little of that scene in Labyrinth with the Helping Hands.
 
 
raggedman
19:40 / 13.04.08
cheers AAR, interesting article, i agree with bits and disagree with others but i don't want to get bogged down in defender of nu-who arguements on the net.
for the record if any one cares (i love nu-who, think overall RTD has done a good job, Martha, Mickey and Jacqui are my favourite companionds of all time (sorry Turlough))

there's a couple of things i would point out though. i tend to think who is a kids show and is best when it's a kids horror show but it does have veer from comedy to adventure to horror etc (often within the same episode)
we know there's going to be big emotional doom(sday) coming down the turnpike so i can live with a lite episode...( i love nu-who but each season is on a 60/40 win kind of ratio for me)

i don't agree that the intro's in 'rose' were drama, jacqui and mickey were pretty one dimensional at first and my love for them comes from seeing them grow over the series,
even francine (who didn't get as much) has her moment with the master and the gun so i have hopes for sylvia and wilf having similar fleshing out/moments in the sun

the two things in the piece thar did annoy me were the blatant lie of this imaginary 'straight' viewer whose clean and pure eyes he analysed the episode through (?)
my philosophy 101 class has that down as nonsense and
the 'comically lower class obese people' line...
Stacey was the central tragedy of the episode (for me) and i didn't think she was played for laughs or that her weight and social status (looked like a damn nice house to me) were given to us to laugh at

oh lord, and this is me not going on! apologies apologies

i only came on to say something about the species with both lost planets having breeding/replicating through bonding with humans as a central plank...script coincidence or part of the theme?
 
 
Lama glama
22:32 / 13.04.08
It could be a coincidence, but if the Ood are in fact part human next week, then it's story arc-tastic.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:45 / 13.04.08
Did I miss something in the preview that suggested that?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:33 / 14.04.08
It might have been better just for the Doctor to let Donna try fruitlessly to warn people of the danger before getting embroiled in the general plot.

I was hoping he was going to leave her there.

If I was the Docter, I'd rather be tripping the light fantastic with a dalek, frankly. Okay, the thing would be trying to kill you a lot, but at least it would be honest about it.

Catherine Tate must be good fun at parties, or well-connected or something; the decision to cast her in a show that presumably does all right for BBC1 is baffling otherwise.
 
 
Dead Megatron
22:10 / 14.04.08
alas, everything that need to be said has been said.

but, I'll say this: I'm betting good money that they will do the "we are not in a relationship, no way!" joke between Tate and Tenant at least once per episode until end of the season.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
08:45 / 15.04.08
True. And it seems like we're getting those cracks out of the way even in the previews. "Hey, kids, they're gonna say it! Just letting you know!"
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:14 / 15.04.08
I wasn't overwhelmed by this episode: in fact, rather the opposite. The "speaking Latin to the Romans" gag was quite fun and nicely fanwanky, but also consistent with Donna exploring the limitations and possibilities of the Doctor's world (and toys).

I thought the dialogue of the marble-selling family and of the Romans as a whole was wildly inconsistent, though; at one point we have Prettyboy Son mooching and moaning like he's in Skins or summink, nah't'imean, innit, does me face look bovvered? and the next half the characters are spouting Ye Olde Speake whenever they feel like it. It really alienated and disorientated me and in fact I started reading a magazine halfway though and barely absorbed the last half of the show.

I actually want to watch it again with proper attention to understand what other people liked about it, but the sight of Catherine Tate emoting all over the screen whenever I raised my eyes from the story about the Cambridge-educated stripper put me off rather.

I have to say that if the emotional core of the episode was meant to be will-they won't-they save Pompeii, I wasn't in the slightest suspense: it was pretty clear they wouldn't. Some nice acting from Tennant when he was talking about not being able to go back and save Gallifrey, however. I was disappointed that he didn't ditch Donna and adopt Peter Capaldi as his new companion, though.

Mmm.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
15:45 / 15.04.08
Yes, well, I'd rather see Tate over-emote and look appalled than have her voice reach that freakish pitch it gets sometimes.

One of MattS' interpretations was: "I could do without the writers' STATING! THE DOCTOR! HAS! A! TORTURED SIDE!."

I dunno. I like it meself.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
16:35 / 15.04.08
I suppose the excuse being that Donna doesn't know all the endless tortured backstory, so it has to be re-explained to her in an endless, tortuous way.

Peh.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:59 / 15.04.08
The Doctor really should have some sort of training video for new Companions or a brochure or something that way we--the constant viewer--wouldn't have to reminded as well.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:59 / 15.04.08
There are different ways of doing 'tortured'. Subtle ones are best.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:01 / 15.04.08
Like fr'example that Hartnall one - it's obvious that he feels fucking terrible for leading them to the city, but it's done as part of his boyish enthusiasm gone wrong.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
19:53 / 15.04.08
One of MattS' interpretations was: "I could do without the writers' STATING! THE DOCTOR! HAS! A! TORTURED SIDE!."

Actually, it was the introduction (??) of the Doctor being cursed with the burden of seeing which points in time are immutable that really struck me as getting a bit redundant. I mean, the poor guy's already the last of his race, burdened by memories of genocide, lost his Best Companion Ever, and now they have to shovel Another Reason For Anguish on the heap? Goodness.
 
 
Dead Megatron
01:16 / 16.04.08
And he's also assuming some very god-line qualities in the process. Aside from being long living and capable of regenerating, which alone is pretty cool, he can also change his own species, grow severed limbs, imsome sort of simbiosis with a time-traveling, multi-dimensional machine/being (TARDIS) and is near omniscient, time-wise. Not to mention the sonic screwdriver. I'm not familiar with the original series, has the Doctor always been this powerful? Or at some point he was just a guy who was smart and had a time-machine?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
03:38 / 16.04.08
Originally he was kinda the creepy guy who gestured to you from a dark alleyway.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
03:39 / 16.04.08
I hate when the fiance' corrects himself.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:27 / 16.04.08
The TARDIS was always incredibly powerful, look to the third story Edge of Destruction but they got rid of K-9 and the sonic screwdriver because they thought that tipped things too far in the Doctor's favour, whereas these days every episode has it's obligatory 'using the sonic screwdriver for something' moment.

Of course, if the Master hadn't been shot the Doctor could have used that to turn him back into a human, drop the watch into a black hole and never had to worry again. Wonderfully poetic and emotionally strong as the fates of the Family of Blood were, I'm more concerned about how he achieved them.
 
 
johnnymonolith
18:29 / 18.04.08
I am taken aback that I actually like Tate as Donna this time around; I remember being extremely irritated with her character in the 2006 Xmas special. It is nice to get someone who is not gobsmacked by the Doctor; it adds a nice dynamic and for once it keeps the schmaltzy tendencies of NuWho in check, i.e."everyone must fall in love with the Doctor but a Who-orgy is out of question" (mind you, "bloody Torchwood!" is RTD's way of compensating for orgy-less NuWho). I have this secret dream that when all of the companions (Donna, Martha, Rose, Jack and SJ) appear later in this series they form a NuLiNDA.

(am i making sense? Forgive the waffling it is exhaustion talking; all I meant to say is that I like Tate as the companion)
 
 
Lama glama
22:48 / 18.04.08
Er, you might want to spoiler your post Johnny, before more spoiler-sensitive eyes wander across it.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
23:55 / 18.04.08
Nah, Llama, he's just stating things we've already agreed about before he posted.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:31 / 19.04.08
The bees! It's all about the bees!
 
 
Lama glama
18:02 / 19.04.08
That was a good episode. Wonderful direction and a clever little script, but Donna and the Doctor sort of felt incidental to events, in a way reminiscent of plenty of sixth Doctor episodes. Two mentions of bees now, so there's definitely something going on there. I suppose bees vanishing could be indicative of climate change, and the opening of the rift between Rose's and the Doctor's world did mess around with the weather in Rose's world last time.

And again with the mysterious foreshadowing:

"Your song must end soon, Doctor."

Regeneration?
 
 
Poke it with a stick
18:25 / 19.04.08
Oddly, I thought that was the weakest of the three episodes thus far - there wasn't anything concrete I can put my finger on to make it so, it just didn't gel as well.
It was also a little too referential: sly nods to I, Robot; The Empty Child and slightly worryingly, Schindler's List, though they tried to temper it by altering the Final Solution scenario to the far more Daily Mail-friendly terror of Foot and Mouth containment procedures.

Donna, as she has all season, showed a lot more humanity(?) towards the victims here than previous companions, notably Rose. Rather than verbal punnage, she actually saw them for what they were far more quickly and clearly than the Doctor.

And yes, it's all about the bees.
 
 
Feverfew
18:47 / 19.04.08
The bees... And the Giant Brain! A brain so huge a man could die in it!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:33 / 19.04.08
A huge ever-growing pulsating brain that rules from the centre of the ultraworld! The Doctor versus the Federation! I can see it now...

Doctor: "Rose! Have you betrayed us? Have you betrayed me?"

Fade to black and gunfire.
 
 
raggedman
19:49 / 19.04.08
Noooooooooooooo
it would be Ecclestone as well, brought back for the final sanction
i can see it too clearly
'i'm so sorry'
i don't know whether to thank you for the image or cry

in addition to the ongoing breeding thing there's another legacy to mirror becoming household gods in ancient rome
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
02:16 / 20.04.08
Llamas: I said the same thing about the episode after a friend and I watched it this evening. It's very reminiscent of a old Doctor story. It seemed very Tom Baker or Peter Davison. I liked it for that.

Cap't John: My friend and I also agreed it was one of the more weak episodes, true, but we do think that Donna's empathy towards the weakened Ood and the Ood in general was the sort of compassion that Rose would have definitely shown. I appreciated that.

The bees thing. That has got to come into play. Nothing is coincidence on Who, it seems.

And my friend and I also think that the whole bit with the Doctor and Donna as household gods and also as a song sung by the Ood will be recurring theme this series as well as a possible downfall.
 
 
Lama glama
13:41 / 20.04.08
Llamas: I said the same thing about the episode after a friend and I watched it this evening. It's very reminiscent of a old Doctor story. It seemed very Tom Baker or Peter Davison. I liked it for that.

They do seem to be going for a retro vibe this year. Last week felt a lot like an early William Hartnell historical, with people taking their time to wander about the place and just have a chat. Planet of the Ood definitely had a fifth/sixth Doctor feel to it and I wonder if the Sontaran episodes will feel similar to an old story too. The writer, Helen Raynor, wrote those Dalek episodes last year and they had a classic series atmosphere when it came to things like pace and tone.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
13:49 / 20.04.08
Yes, but to be honest, I really didn't care for those Dalek episodes.
 
 
Lama glama
14:40 / 20.04.08
Neither did I. The Doctor and Martha were a bit too generic in them. Apparently she wrote it without any editing from RTD. He helps re-write almost every writer's script but due to illness couldn't do this for Helen Raynor's episodes. The only writers he doesn't fiddle about with are Moffat and Greenhorn. This year, however, he has helped with Raynor's scripts so I've got fairly high hopes for them.
 
  

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