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Darkmatter

 
  

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Glenn Close But No Cigar
13:28 / 22.10.07
This may have been covered before (although if so I can't find anything on it...), but if Mods can only vote on a ban in their own forum, how might the board work out exactly which set of Mods should vote on a given ban? It's conceivable that a possible banning offence (say an ambiguous remark that might be read as being racist) might occur in Creation, and a thread proposing a ban on the grounds of this offence is then begun in Policy, in which the potential ban-ee defends the original offence perpetrated in Creation. This begs a few questions:

1) Should it be Creation or Policy Mods who vote on the ban? On the one hand, you might argue that it should be the Creation Mods, given that it's 'their' welcome mat that was soiled. However, to defend a banning offence committed elsewhere in Policy is to soil that forum's welcome mat, too, and perhaps with more splattage (to post an ambiguous remark in Creation and then confirm in Policy that, yes, it was intended to be racist, and that no, you don't care, is possibly worse than posting the original ambiguous remark).

2) If both Creation and Policy Mods feel that it is they that should vote on the ban, how is this to be resolved? Should the Mods of the forum in which the original offence was perpetrated take precendence, or should there be two votes, by two different (although at times overlapping) sets of mods? What to do in the event of one set of Mods voting for a ban, and the other not? Are both sets of votes to be considered equal?

3) If a poster has splatted across numerous forums, and the proposed ban is of the last-straw kind rather than the single-issue kind, things become even more complicated. Say the potential ban-ee has done X in Games, Y in the Gathering, and on reflection has also done Z in the Lab, do the Mods of all of those forums pitch in with a vote?

4) Some individuals on Barbelith mod in more than one forum. In the event of (for e.g.) Creation Mods and Policy Mods both voting on a ban, should a given individual only participate in one ballot, even though they mod in both forums?

5) It's conceivable that two separate ballots by the Mods of two separate forums might each involve the same 4-5 people (for e.g. a Creation ballot being voted on by A,B,C & D, and a Policy ballot also being voted on by A,B,C & D). Should this mean that the same set of 4 individuals cannot work as Mods in more than one forum to avoid this situation?

6) In the event of an individual Mod being involved in two parallel ballots on the same potential ban-ee, should they vote only on the basis of the offence caused in a specific forum, and return, quite possibly, a 'yes' in one ballot, and a 'no' in the other?
 
 
Quantum
13:42 / 22.10.07
Why so complicated? We have a discussion, which is the main part of the process, then someone proposes a ban, then whoever else sees the action gets the opportunity to vote. All that faffing about seems needless to me, who cares who votes if we trust the mods, if we don't trust the mods then we're buggered anyway.
I just noticed we're still in the darkmatter thread- shall we adjourn to topics of concern- banning, or the banning of users thread perhaps?
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
13:58 / 22.10.07
To be clear, Quantum, are you suggesting that Mods from all forums should be able to vote on a ban (which, it seems to me, will almost inevitably take place in Policy)? One potential problem with this was voiced by Haus upthread when he wrote:

I don't much like the idea of [...] the moderators of Games and Gameplay having a finger on the bancannon

Another is that if only 4-5 mods from any forum are required to vote on a ban (which will, again, inevitiably be discussed in Policy), won't it be those Mods with most time to devote to the board, and those who are the most frequent visitors to Policy, that will stand in judgement? In other words, a jury comprised, potentially, of the same 4-5 souls every time?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:20 / 22.10.07
I think the reason one might feel a bit dubious about some of the G&G mods, and certainly the reason that I myself feel a bit dubious--is that some of the mods there are... how to put this delicately... well, let's just say they have a history of not understanding why people might need to be removed from the board, esp. if the removal is occuring for reasons of bigotry towards certain groups (X-ref the discussion around the banning of the Fetch).

It's also worth pointing out that some of them have stuck their keys back through the letterbox and really oughtn't to be on the mod list anymore.
 
 
Quantum
15:28 / 22.10.07
are you suggesting that Mods from all forums should be able to vote on a ban

Post-mod-cleanup, yes. Are you perhaps worried that basically the Policy mods will become the banning supreme court? Because I was assuming that the mods of the forum the trouble starts in are going to be the ones to propose and vote. If a troll starts up in the Temple then those mods should start the ball rolling, if one starts spouting in G&G then those mods should start it rolling.
Of course, until the mod rinsing, it's probably going to be necessary to pressgang whatever mods are available from whatever fora and try to work around the crippling dysfunction of our banning mechanism.
I'm going to bump the banning threads (I hate the title of this one, specifically the use of the word dipshit).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:06 / 22.10.07
Have put in for change.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:08 / 22.10.07
Because I was assuming that the mods of the forum the trouble starts in are going to be the ones to propose and vote. If a troll starts up in the Temple then those mods should start the ball rolling, if one starts spouting in G&G then those mods should start it rolling.

That's my assumption also- apart from anything else, we can't expect Policy mods to have to keep an eye on every forum. If something goes wrong in Switchboard, then Switchboard mods will, as part of their mod duties, notice it and (possibly) propose a ban. A discussion will be had in Policy, and Switchboard mods will vote on it.

If the individual concerned has shat in various fora, then they can all have a go at banning. Perhaps the crime in comics wasn't bad enough to warrant a unilateral kick, but over in Temple the same guy was blaming the world's problems on Holocaust-faking Jewish wizards, and Temple mods choose to ban.

See, at the moment, a user can only be proposed for banning using this functionality by a forum in which they've posted. This seems fair to me, really, if we're to trust the mods at all- someone banworthy should no doubt have tripped the switch of one of the mods in the forum in which they've been so. If they haven't, then more questions need to be asked somewhere.
 
 
Tom Coates
10:03 / 25.10.07
I think I've changed it to five, with two vetos needed to stop it going through.
 
 
grant
16:38 / 25.10.07
Was the prior voting system 8 votes/2 vetoes or 8 votes/3 vetoes?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:29 / 25.10.07
2 vetoes, as I recall.
 
 
grant
02:49 / 26.10.07
Well, that was the official count, but on the actual banning screen, it said "1 of 3" vetoes after someone vetoed.

Which was confusing.
 
  

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