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Final Crisis

 
  

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Evil Scientist
07:14 / 01.08.07
So, who do people reckon is going to take the bullet on FC?

SPECULATE! SPEC-U-LAAAAAATE!

Presumably it'll be one of the five on the teaser poster (Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, Hawkman).

My personal instincts are that it'll be Bruce who gets it in the neck. Both Green Lantern and Superman have "died" before (and, really, is anyone going to be that bothered if Hawkman dies?). I can't see them killing off Wonder Woman.

It'll be Bats. Plenty of scope to do Year One (Two, Three, etc) stories. Nightwing takes up the mantle permanently.

Legends live forever. As in Legend of the Dark Knight.

Or, y'know, they'll just off another Flash.
 
 
This Sunday
07:58 / 01.08.07
It's not about caring, really, it's just having someone die. How many people actually cared when they capped Blue Beetle. Um, me. Four other people. And I just cared that it was executed badly.

This is the spin-off to the Legends reality, then? Who's enough to carry an entire universe? Hawkman could do with a totally fresh start, all things considered, and Morrison's been quoted a few times saying Hal Jordan's better off dead, but really... it's Batman. Which is a bit silly, but, he's the only one up there who hasn't died yet, right? And it'd make the fans of a more pared back Batman happy. So, yeah, Batman. Unless it's not.

Mainly, it'd be a nice excuse to tell continuity-obsessives who they shut down the multiverse for, get super-anal about developing bridge-style excuses for, and generally ignore hypertime because of, 'Y'know, Batman died for your sins?'
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:02 / 01.08.07
Did the Mirror Master trap him in some verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slooooooow mooooving diiiiiimensioooooooon?

Yes, if by Mirror Master you mean Dan Didio, and by very slow moving you mean sadfaced and rapey.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
13:08 / 01.08.07
That's exactly what I meant. *sob*
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:53 / 01.08.07
furioso, Vertigo turned LESEXY down and he didnt't pitch it elsewhere, exclusive contract and all.

evil scientist: i've yet to see any of the big 3 DC chraracters 'die' a permanent death. they can't keep the other lesser ones in the grave for a long while [or for good], let alone these other ones.
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:11 / 01.08.07
S'true Hector. They have enough trouble keeping Barry Allen in the ground.
 
 
This Sunday
16:34 / 01.08.07
And the point is, unlike Barry, they're not giving up publishing the character. They just move them on over. Heck their book(s) probably wouldn't even be cancelled or re-numbered, just slap a banner on the covers, try to minimalize crossovers for the first year and a haf, there you go.

Maybe the new continuity wave will do some good. Could be a Preemptive Crisis. Kill bad ideas before they hit the market. Resuscitate good ones. No All-Star Batgirl. Yes, Batwoman maxiseries. No torntights rape spectacle and single-shed tears. Yes, primarily nonviolent Superman. Like so.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:15 / 05.08.07
From what I remember, Grant said that not doing LeSexy was ultimately for the best since it was something of a retread of themes from The Filth. As much as I'd love to see him do more original creator owned work, we have to keep in mind the pace at which he's putting out new material compared to other creators, particularly in other media. In the time since Paul Thomas Anderson released his last movie, Grant has done New X-Men, Seven Soldiers, The Filth, We3, etc. He's giving us more stories than the vast majority of writers, and even if it's been a couple of years since his last creator owned work, that's still more recent than lot of people.

And, I think there's a world of difference between something like Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis. Virtually all the 7S minis felt more like original creator owned work than corporate properties. Just because he doesn't own them doesn't mean they're not original.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:15 / 05.08.07
And doesn't the second Batman movie come out next Summer? So yes, in preparation for that, they'll kill Bruce Wayne, make some African kid who doesn't speak English the next Batman, turn Alfred into a paedophile, make Robin and Nightwing the new Apollo and Midnighter and back slowly out of the business saying "Lesbian Batwoman? Haven't heard anything about that..."

Seriously, whatever happened to the lesbian Batwoman that Didio was so proud of?
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
07:31 / 05.08.07
Seriously, whatever happened to the lesbian Batwoman that Didio was so proud of?

She just showed up in Countdown. Althought why Didio would do that to a character he's proud of is anyone's guess.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
08:00 / 05.08.07
Because Grant Morrison and (oddly enough) Paul Dini won't touch her or Montoya-Question with a shitty story stick in Batman and Detective' respectively?
 
 
FinderWolf
01:59 / 07.08.07
Rich Johnston sez this week:

>> I understand that "Final Crisis" represents what Grant Morrison calls his swan song to the DC Universe. A few years ago, he declared that it was his intention to use the complexity of DC Comics continuity to encourage the DC universe to become a sentient being - this may well be his chance. Morrison has also completed his final script for "All Star Superman."

I have to admit, I'd be sort of sad if Grant made an end of writing DCU stuff. But to all things...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:59 / 07.08.07
Because Grant Morrison and (oddly enough) Paul Dini won't touch her or Montoya-Question with a shitty story stick in Batman and Detective' respectively?

Which is too bad, because for a split second I almost picked up that issue of Countdown before sanity resumed normal functioning and made me put it back down. Montoya better effin' be in this new Batwoman series. Hopefully drawn by JHW3.
 
 
This Sunday
04:23 / 07.08.07
Y'know, if Grayson's still writing Batwoman, Rucka and her do have a lot of tics in common, but I find there are things Rucka does with female characters that annoy me, and yet, the when Grayson does the same, the angle she puts on it makes it more palatable. And she likes her characters having actual friendships, actual working relationships, and the romance or the sweaty atop stained sheets, too, which I'm all for.

Although, I would like to see the new Batwoman and the new Question bigged up in the next Crisis. They lend themselves to good visuals, nice eyeball kick moments, and being half-in and half-out of the traditional supertights families, while having a dynamic and history of their own, you could plausibly spin an entire branch of DC mythology off them. Morrison could even do it, though it might take a removal from Gotham, and since neither are necessarily predicated in their characterization on being women, they'd fulfill a niche not covered by Wonder Woman, Power Girl, or the general run of female-knockoffs.

Of course, you could do all that with the Jler, Fire, too, but, well...

Really, I just like the idea of a Montoya-centered mega-Crisis of cosmic madness. With her blank face, necktie and a gun. Maybe it's just me.
 
 
Mark Parsons
04:24 / 07.08.07
If Grant is done and Waid has one foot out the door (finish B&B; get FLASH up & running), then DC might be a tad imperiled. Johns will continue to be aces, Rucka solid, Busiek totally great and somewhat underappreciated, but without GM and Waid, they're missing their best, most creative story engines.
 
 
This Sunday
04:56 / 07.08.07
I'd very much like to slide Johns off to the side, I think. He can have his own continuity, like you'd do with Miller or Byrne. So, if you like his take on the entire fictional universe, you can experience it, but if you don't, it doesn't bleed across the ficto-existence.

Right now, I'm more interested in Simone (so's everyone, I know), Grayson (there's like three of us, now, right?), and both Kesels (is Barbara Kesel still using her married name? I haven't seen anything from either in too long) and figure there'd be less grim-faced grandstanding torn-tights in the fridge if you put them in charge, and a bit more bright-colored splashy fun and melodrama, and unique perspectives on justice and various issues, instead of pushing the America/Parenthood/Apple-Pie heroism across the board. This is colored from recent (re)reads of various works by the above, probably, but I'll stick to it. Keep Rucka, though, as I do really like a lot of his work, and if he'd stop writing men as men and women as women instead of as people (does that make sense?) I'd be all over his stuff even more.

I'll be almost floored if this is Morrison's going away present to the DCU, though. If it sticks. Maybe once it's self-conscious, it won't need any writers or editorial-driven crossovers.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
05:05 / 07.08.07
this may well be his chance."

I always figured that 7 Soldiers was his chance, given that there's a lot of work towards that end in there. Eh, there really can't be that many people interested in the establishment of the DCU as a life-like system, can there?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:53 / 07.08.07
I'd be quite happy for Mozzer to make this his final love-letter to the DCU. i think it's time he did some more varied work for different publishers, or just totally reinvented himself via his 5-D cosmic putty buddies...whatever, really. Don't get me wrong, I love his reinvigorating work he does for superheroes, and for me Seven Soldiers was one of the most satisfying and varied works, but I'm up for him moving away from his 'staff' position at DC.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:33 / 07.08.07
Although, I would like to see the new Batwoman and the new Question bigged up in the next Crisis. They lend themselves to good visuals, nice eyeball kick moments, and being half-in and half-out of the traditional supertights families, while having a dynamic and history of their own, you could plausibly spin an entire branch of DC mythology off them. Morrison could even do it, though it might take a removal from Gotham, and since neither are necessarily predicated in their characterization on being women, they'd fulfill a niche not covered by Wonder Woman, Power Girl, or the general run of female-knockoffs.

Did they ever give "Kate Kane" a sufficient motivation to dress up in Bat-drag and kick people? I'm afraid I stopped reading 52 and never saw any real development on that front while I was reading. Renee has motivation and a visible arc that she goes through to get where she is and I could see her supporting a series as the main protagonist, though I can't see them actually putting her at the helm. But, if Kate's got a strong reason for doing what she's doing, well, I'm really looking forward to the series, especially if Renee's going to continue being her partner. And including them in the Final Crisis in some way would be a reasonable expectation, given how they usually deal with new series and crossovers...
 
 
This Sunday
17:50 / 30.08.07
Missed this, before. Anyhow, there's no real motivation for dressing up like a bat and hitting people and the heels and all. She's tied into the Crime Bible hoohaw and can, apparently, survive a very intense stabbing with enough energy to pull out the knife and toss it down to the hilt into somebody else, but that's partly because of bad art. No real development. However, for me, that is the potential. She's not at all tethered to the Batverse, really. Even less so than Montoya is, really, and the new Question really only had a police tie to the Bat-Family. It's not like she's been hiding with a hangover in the west wing of the Batcave.

I like the hero-families and the legacy types, but it's nice to see something similar and yet nearly completely removed. Montoya doesn't exist to be Vic/Charlie's follow-up, and Batwoman doesn't exist in the hopes of being Batman one day or sleeping with Robin (she may go after the Huntress, but that's just because fighting crime in Gotham makes you hot for the Huntress by law), and really, they don't even have - to memory - a Bat-beeper or something. Fresh starts along the lines of the Bulleteer.

Personally, I'd be very happy if Batwoman's motivation was because. It's a good motivation and we haven't seen much of it. No supertrauma in her past, no absurd totemic moment of clarity and intensity that reshaped her existence, just - it's a thing people do now, like torrenting music or laughing because the laughtrack on the sitcom tells you to, this putting on a costume and smacking badguys and bad thingies around.

Which is what I'd like something like Final Crisis to address and steer towards: heroes who just do good things, without the impetus of suffering and tragedy. Even All-Star Batgirl is set to establish some tragedies into her initial motivation (outside of shitty father stuff from her childhood, presumably) because we're not allowed to have simply decent, adventure-seeking people right now in the DCU. And we should. Ted Kord should never have had much of a motivation for what he did, except that he got to wear blue tights, fly a bug called The Bug, and sometimes he hit things until the world was better.

Final Crisis should be a bit literal, and stop the necessity of these absurd, heartwrenching, sadistic crises we've been led to believe establish a character's truth and essence. Suffering does not establish the true nature of a person, so much as putting them at the end, or after the end of their job does, and seeing how they react. Batwoman and The Question, together again (for the first time), kicking ass, asking questions, saving the Antimonitor from the Quintisquid Monitor-of-Tentacles. Batman in a crimeless Gotham. Superman at last all things to all people. Those would allow the characters to show themselves (for evidence, see Moore's send-off to Superman) in their reactions, those would tell us more about their core.

So a bit of that, then, and maybe later we can go back to crotch-impalings and dark moments of leather jackets, bright red Bat-armor, and Superman's knifehands and spinebreaking agony.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:54 / 30.08.07
>> Final Crisis should be a bit literal, and stop the necessity of these absurd, heartwrenching, sadistic crises we've been led to believe establish a character's truth and essence.

Morrison did say something to the effect of yes, this really WOULD be the *final* Crisis. I think DC is only legally allowed to do something else called "Crisis" about 10 years in the future.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
19:42 / 31.08.07
For me, this whole thing will only succeed if the final page is Dan Didio's resignation and apology.

But anyway, on a less spiteful note, David Goyer- the Hollywood director who will soon be responsible for the Magneto film and 'Supermax', a Green Arrow prison movie*- will be partnering with two-fisted Green Lantern scribe Geoff! Johns! for a series set after Final Crisis. No word on when it will be published, so I'm guessing after FC.

* Current front-runner for Ollie's role is Matt! Damon!.
 
 
Stigma Enigma
05:34 / 05.09.07
Batwoman and The Question, together again (for the first time), kicking ass, asking questions, saving the Antimonitor from the Quintisquid Monitor-of-Tentacles. Batman in a crimeless Gotham. Superman at last all things to all people. Those would allow the characters to show themselves (for evidence, see Moore's send-off to Superman) in their reactions, those would tell us more about their core.

Thank you for saying this, I think it sounds brilliant. If anything, I too would like a shift away from the standard slugfests and ultra violence.

The ideas/possible storylines you are projecting here are very compelling to me and maybe Didio would gain something from reading this entire thread, ay?

Fett
 
 
PatrickMM
19:32 / 08.09.07
From the DC Nation panel at the Baltimore comicon:

"Are The Death of the New Gods or Final Crisis related to the ending of Seven Soldiers? According to DiDio, yes. Some elements from the ending of Seven Soldiers will play into the start of Final Crisis. "

Interesting...
 
 
Mario
13:17 / 09.09.07
Aurakles and the 666 Monsters of Chaos, perhaps?
 
 
andrewdrilon
13:46 / 09.09.07
666 Monsters of Chaos? Cool! Where was that mentioned in SS?
 
 
The Falcon
14:17 / 09.09.07
*Mister Miracle #4 and Seven Soldiers #1, fact fans!
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:00 / 09.09.07
By the way: in case I missed it, has there been any announcement of a SEVEN SOLDIERS hardback or Absolute-style special edition?
 
 
The Falcon
16:03 / 09.09.07
Nope.
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
21:47 / 19.11.07
Grant Morrison shows us a future where Batman is not Bruce Wayne; Rich Johnson says DC are killing Bruce Wayne in the summer of 2008; FINAL CRISIS, written by Morrison, uses tagline "Heroes Die - Legends Live Forever"; Dan Didio says Morrison is "writing Batman through 2008 and beyond"; and we have still to see the "Nanda Parbat Batman Breakdown/Shamanic Incident"(TM) Morrison has been promising since 52.

Co-incidence?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:04 / 19.11.07
"Hype goes before a fall."
 
 
andrewdrilon
00:52 / 20.11.07
Query: has much, if any, hint been given regarding the Final Crisis storyline? Or does it even matter, presumably being another "multiverse in peril" Crisis on Infinite Earth remake-horrorshow-trickle down thing?

Well, there were rumors going around that it was gonna involve the New Gods and Grant moving the Fourth World into the Fifth World (Kirby-tastic!) with the major superheroes becoming gods and their sidekicks taking their places...

Only hearsay though, as of now. Death of Bruce Wayne and his subsequent apotheosis, rumored over HERE.

Obviously, we can't yet be sure if it's true, but it does sound believable, given the focus on the New Gods in Countdown and Grant's unresolved use of them in Seven Soldiers. Regardless, I'm really excited to read it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:02 / 20.11.07
Aren't they all being killed off at the moment in a way that suggests the 7S 'Mister Miracle' version of them isn't continuity (it all took place inside a singularity created alternate universe of somesuch)?
 
 
The Natural Way
07:12 / 20.11.07
Perhaps, but Darkseid cdoes give that speech at the end about how "evil has won it is the dawn of a dark aeon" or something like that, so I guess he's getting excited about the Final Crisis.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:28 / 20.11.07
the idea of the JLA or DC Big Guns becoming New Gods also fits in with Morrison's JLA One Million concept, to some degree (the 1,000,000 JLA being godlike in status/stature/home bases - Batman was Pluto and had his home base on Pluto, etc.)....
 
  

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