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Tom! The Board Is Broken!

 
  

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Quantum
16:13 / 02.07.07
Tom! Help! The board seems to be busted and we can't do anything about it! We can't ban anyone, the admissions process is laughably labour intensive, people are gradually wandering away as they get frustrated and it seems to be getting worse rather than better! We can't change anything and stagnation is a horrible stifling demise for anyone to have to suffer.

Is this how you tell us it's over? You never return our calls, you're always too busy for Us Time, are you just letting us down gently by keeping quiet and hoping we'll all go away?

Should we move on, try and get over you, have a collective ice cream and romcom evening and sob into our beers about how good it used to be? Is there anything worth saving of our pitifully abusive relationship or are you just leaving us to twist in the wind?

BARBELITH IS DYING, TOM, DYING I TELL YOU!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:43 / 02.07.07
Preexisting threads:

Topic of concern - admissions

Topic of concern - banning

Topic of concern - naming
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:52 / 03.07.07
Comments on plasticbag.org, perhaps?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:55 / 03.07.07
Why don't we just stand outside his house and bellow? Same principle.
 
 
Tom Coates
13:07 / 03.07.07
Guys, I'm really sorry. I know that you've heard all of this before, but I've been working 14 hours days to prepare for the Hack Day event, then worked a 41 hour day from Saturday at 8am until early Monday morning. Then had half a day off, then flew to the US for work, where I've been slogging my guts out before going to a conference on the weekend. I know it's not very helpful, but I'm not not helping out because I don't care. I've got 32,000 unread e-mails to deal with in my Inbox, I'm supposed to be moving to America and I'm in the middle of developing and launching a new product.

Now, what needs to be done?
 
 
*
13:42 / 03.07.07
In a nutshell, it seems to me like the board wants to be completely sustainable by the people who have the time, energy, and desire to commit to it. As to the details, we're doing some amateurish "community needs assessment" over on Yahoo, which I'll report back to those of Barbelith who didn't want to or feel able to participate after a period of time as-yet unspecified (my guess is three months). Much of the stuff will just clarify and quantify what's already been said in the other threads, though I'm still hoping to find ONE TRUE ANSWER to why many people feel negatively about the board.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:43 / 03.07.07
Well, to be honest, Tom, nothing we haven't already talked about. The applications process is labour-intensive, and while it does its job of excluding a specific strain of malicious troll attempting to get in under multiple false identities it probably also leads to a fair few people either not being able to get in or losing the impetus to post. However, fixing the applications process would be time-consuming and probably not currently within your gift.

Banning is a long-winded process, at present, although actually the mechanical part of that is not the only issue. However, it is the only obviously and purely negative part. We have basically just addressed this - the problem is that you do not have time to read the banning threads and context in their entirety. The solution is to outsource that knowledge. I'd suggest that after a banning thread appears to have run its course, Randy or I, or whoever else is nominated, email you, copying in the other party - that way, if the other party thinks that the decision to ban has _not_ been made conclusively, they can challenge it and we can sort it out on the board. An email saying "we have agreed to ban (user number) does not count unless copied to the other party, nor does such an email not coming from the recognised email address of one of the people trusted to report this). It's not a perfect solution, but a solution involving giving people other than you the power to ban or suspend does not appear to be on the table. While such a solution is not on the table, we can't really speed up the applications process, either, because we cannot quickly arrest the activities of people intent on causing disruption.

As I understand it, we now have imperfect fixes in place for these two problems. However, the fixes remain imperfect and consequently people are unhappy with the impaired functionality. If fixes cannot be made available, then we need to talk frankly about how what is good about Barbelith can be moved to another platform, one perhaps hosted on your servers and with you as consultant in its creation and implementation, but which does not have the current issues from the software not being designed to deal with the current situation of the board.

At present, people are moving off to other bulletin boards or other social tools, such as LiveJournal. People are talking about setting up new boards, which may or may not succeed. What Barbelith has is, for better or worse, brand equity and also a place in many people's bookmark folders. So, a discussion of what might realistically be done, if not in terms of fixing the current code then replacing the entire set of code, might also be worth having.
 
 
Quantum
13:53 / 03.07.07
What they said. The easiest win I can see at the moment is a tool to stop trolling, whether that's an effective ban or a freezing mechanism or whatever, in the hands of moderators. That would make a big difference, and allow an easing of the admissions problems etc.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:18 / 03.07.07
Moderator lists desperately need updating. People who've officially left or have simply stopped posting for a significant amount of time include:

Conversation:

Goodness Gracious Meme (locked herself out of the board on purpose)
Ganesh (same)

Policy:

GGM
Ganesh
cusm( no sure, haven't seen around for a while)

Headshop:

GGM

Laboratory:

MJ-12 (seen once in every six blue moons)

Switchboard:

Cherielabombe (hasn't posted here for years that I've noticed, bar the very occasional moment in Big Brother threads)

AF&D:

GGM

Books:

Ex (?)

FTV&T:

cusm (?)
Ganesh
Matthew Fluxington (stopped posting here years ago)

G&G:

GGM
cube (drifted away)
Tom Tit (left in a huff a couple of years ago)

Music:

Matthew Fluxington

Gathering:

bitchiekittie (possibly - I've not seen her here for ages)
Bedhead (those who know him IRL have said that he's been too busy for Barbelith for a good while now)

There are probably others, too, but frequent name changes mean that I don't actually know who a lot of the moderators are. And then there are the older members who don't post an enormous amount, but do seem to be hovering about - Sax, rizla. I don't know if that means that they're not logging in often enough to be effective moderators, or if they're reading but not posting.

I'd like to be removed from FTV&T, for a number of reasons, but am happy to remain in Policy and G&G.
 
 
Quantum
16:21 / 03.07.07
Ex is still about I'm sure.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:24 / 03.07.07
Ah, right. Wasn't too sure on that one. Same goes for cusm.
 
 
Quantum
16:37 / 03.07.07
Hasn't been seen for a couple of years if memory serves.
 
 
Quantum
17:01 / 03.07.07
Temple needs cusm and Roy Medallion removing and Princess Swashbuckling added I believe.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:24 / 03.07.07
Could I suggest that all moderators still posting to the board be, at least, temporarily made moderators for all fora until we have enough time to organise things better?
 
 
grant
17:32 / 03.07.07
When I upgraded the Lab list a couple months ago, I got a message from cusm - ze was fine with being removed from the mod list because ze wasn't around much any more, but still pops in from time to time, so isn't really an "ex-member" or anything.
 
 
Quantum
18:07 / 03.07.07
Maybe if we sort the place out a bit we can tempt people like that back. I'd love cusm to post more.

I second the temporary mod all fora idea, why not?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:26 / 03.07.07
Erk. I don't know. I'm not qualified to be voting on moderation actions in the Temple, but more than that, I don't know that I could face logging on here at the end of a long day and seeing "you have 25 moderation actions" at the top of the screen.

Certain areas are more desperate than others. G&G, for example, probably doesn't need any more mods at all, even once the disappeared ones are removed from the list, whereas the Temple will.
 
 
Feverfew
18:29 / 03.07.07
I second the temporary mod all fora idea, why not?

I'm willing to give it a go.
 
 
grant
18:36 / 03.07.07
Speaking as someone who once had the AWESOME DUTIES of moderating everything at the same time, what you describe never really happened - there are still lots of moderators on here. You have to think in aggregate. There may be 25 moderation actions in a queue, but there are also at least (let's say) 12 moderators per action, at least 7 of whom are likely to be logged in at the same time.

As (I think) Haus has previously pointed out, the main problem with many moderators is the increased likelihood of slip-ups due to increased speed at which things take place - the wrong deletion getting OKed, basically.
 
 
This Sunday
03:25 / 04.07.07
As far as qualifying to moderate goes, one does have the ability to simply not make a call on certain requests. Probably in conjunction with my amusement/bewilderment at finding myself a mod, I tend to avoid voting either way on things of a non-technical matter if I'm not sure where the bulk of the board's interest would lie and I'd just be imposing my own tastes. (Comics, thankfully, has many mods.)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:51 / 04.07.07
Well, I wouldn't be going looking for stuff in the fora I don't read much to start moderation requests on, but if someone else is fixing a borked HTML link (one of my bugbears) in a temple thread I'd be happy to vote to agree it, maybe I've just not been on the board at the right times but it's not often that any particularly complicated issue comes up in moderation that isn't discussed in the relevant thread in Policy first.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
07:38 / 04.07.07
I think this is getting side-tracked by a needless conversation about moderation. Presumably some of you have something to say to Tom since you clicked on the thread title?
 
 
Tom Coates
11:45 / 04.07.07
There are three duties to deal with w/r/t moderation - one is to spot problems and put in requests, one is to ratify or deny those requests and one is to keep conversation moving. There's no evidence that we have more requests to deal with than people to approve them, even though there are less mods around. It could be that there are less people spotting the problems, which would be bad, and keeping the place on topic is always a challenge, but something that everyone can help out with.

I don't think there's a crisis in mod numbers, is basically my point, although it's always good to have a clean up now and then. There are clearly other problems around the place though.
 
 
illmatic
13:16 / 04.07.07
Tom, while we have your ear, could you please deselect me as a mod? Ta.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:03 / 04.07.07
There isn't a crisis in mod numbers, but we need to clear out the people who aren't regular contributors so that we don't end up with another Lionheart situation.
 
 
grant
19:48 / 05.07.07
Hate to bring it up, Tom, but you should see what's happening with the wiki.

Spam-icane.

Spam-nado.

Spam-cano.

Tspamami!
 
 
Spaniel
08:30 / 06.07.07
Woah
 
 
Katherine
08:57 / 06.07.07
I mentioned in the moderating thread about the posting etiquette thread having spammy links on it at the top but I didn't see the others.

Why do people do it? It can't workn as advertising, can it?
 
 
grant
14:15 / 06.07.07
The more incoming links, the higher the Google ranking. At least that's the theory.
 
 
grant
13:45 / 07.07.07
wiki is in serious crisis - some pages had 3 spam edits last night.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
23:12 / 07.07.07
I'll try to log in once or twice a day to help keep a lid on it, but it seems like you've got it well in hand, grant.
 
 
Tom Coates
11:21 / 09.07.07
Gah. Wikis are a nightmare to maintain. Absolutely apocalyptically hard to fix from spam. It's unbearable. I don't know that there's much I can do about that, but I will have a think.
 
 
jamesPD
12:36 / 09.07.07
Would it be possible to install a captcha for MediaWiki? I did a very quick google and they certainly seam to exist.
 
 
grant
13:25 / 09.07.07
I have protected some of the pages, so if anyone has anything they want to add to the wiki and find that they cannot, just post a message here or else start a new page.
 
 
grant
13:28 / 09.07.07
Why is it that apostrophes in the "reply" field now make my browser (Firefox) bump into "Find" rather than letting me continue typing?
 
  

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