BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Fuck Barbelith.

 
  

Page: 12(3)456

 
 
Ender
05:46 / 23.05.07
Wingman here, hey guys, how can this thread go on with no one asking my opinion?!

I was talking with Steve, and he and I both think that the name MUST BE Steve, but he wants royalties, sorry.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
06:20 / 23.05.07
How is Steve?

I don't know about everyone else, but barely a day goes by when I don't think about him, running across the lawn in his cut-off denims, being showered by the sprinkler. Tearing off his t-shirt, and then getting into a fight with the gardener, which I watch
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:39 / 23.05.07
Sorry Ender. This is bigger than one man. Steve belongs to the world now.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:48 / 23.05.07
I'm still of the (apparently minority) opinion that it if we took all the effort and fandangle surrounding a name change and instead applied that energy towards rebranding "Barbelith" as, well, this instead of just a nonsense word for a fictional satellite, it would be just as easy and more productive.

So far the fandangle extends to two threads - one in Policy and this one. A comparable amount of fandangle expended on outreach would probably achieve little.

The part of the argument that doesn't get aired much, other than "the forum being calleed Barbelith means that a disproportionately large number of people want to join to talk about comics and the chaos magicks, creating a disproportioante weight and what appears to be a drop in quality". That is that the word is a Grant Morrison word. When the site was dedicated to annotating The Invisibles, with a bulletin board for slavish fan devotion, that was all well and good, but we are now down to about a dozen old stagers with unhealthy emotional investment in Grant M, and some fly-ins who usually leave when it turns out that the board is not what they expected, which they might have learned if they had read the thing, but never mind. Is it really fair to the man to continue to use a term that might otherwise provide the name for a fan forum, or to us to be the sump for people looking for a fan forum?

This is pretty academic, of course, because the name isn't likely to change - it would require too much effort and too much concord between members and owner.
 
 
Jared Louderback
08:49 / 23.05.07
How about The Mongooses! That's a good team name! The FIGHTING MONGOOSES! Think about it! Everyone is afraid of snakes, and even snakes fear mongooses!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:59 / 23.05.07
Sorry for going off on one, id- I've never heard "twee" used to mean homosexual before and wasn't sure where you were going with that.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
09:14 / 23.05.07
So far the fandangle extends to two threads - one in Policy and this one. A comparable amount of fandangle expended on outreach would probably achieve little.

But that's just idle (Convo) and not so idle (Policy) discussion about whether we should change the name. I imagine the whether has a lot of fandangle generation potential left in it.

Once (if) there was consensus on the name-changing, we'd still be left with actually choosing the new name. That might take us out of fandangle and into fooferaw territory.

Perhaps even a kerfuffle.

Is it really fair to the man to continue to use a term that might otherwise provide the name for a fan forum, or to us to be the sump for people looking for a fan forum?

Well... sure. I mean, the Sisters of Mercy isn't a Leonard Cohen tribute band, and O Brother, Where Art Thou wasn't the film Sullivan was dead-set on making. If somebody started a forum for discussion of cartooning called "D'Oh!" I doubt Matt Groening would bat an eyelash.

It's not like GM has only ever coined one word or concept or phrase that could be the anchoring point for a fan forum or site. And "the sump for people looking for a fan forum" is pretty much the original problem, no?

And -- indulging in my own bit of fanwankery -- I think seeing a word Grant Morrison coined grow and evolve into a symbol of active thinking, progressive discourse and creative energy would fit very well into the broader lines of the writer's general themes. With all the discussion of living language and linguistic confines and traps that sprawl across Grant Morrison's comics writing, I think Barbelith as not-his-satellite-any-more is maybe a better use of "Barbelith" than a fan or annotation site would be.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
09:14 / 23.05.07
How about The Mongooses! That's a good team name! The FIGHTING MONGOOSES! Think about it!

Well I've thought about it, Jared. I have.

But I never, ever want to have to think about it again.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
09:20 / 23.05.07
There's something ... wrong with them, the mongeese.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
09:49 / 23.05.07
Okay, Matt, but I have a question, what *is* this site supposed to be? Is it a Grant Morrison fan site or not? If not, I don't see a reason for it to be called Barbelith at all and I don't understand how we owe to the gentleman to make his hypersigil expand further for him into... um... magic space and are very unlikely to be able to do so to anywhere near the level his original casting of it has. It's out there on comic shop shelves everywhere beaming it's GMy vibeness with undiluted purity and it's circulation surely way outstrips the visibility of this site.

The only plus side I can see is that the site might sweep up Cool and Interesting People (TM) who liked the Invisibles but already have some other focus and aren't going to swamp the site with fanboyish squeeing, and I'm guessing most of us are already here (preens). Unfortunately this plus carries with it the inescapable minus of future Epops (who might turn up anyway, I suppose). Ach... nobody here needs me to tell them any of this...

I think the rebranding is a good idea, but branding something brand new would probably be even better. To me, at least, it's the ideas that matter, and I think they can survive being seperated from the name. Dontcha think?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:59 / 23.05.07
To save time, I have preemptively closed the connections with every name except the Haus of Pancakes.

Ta.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
10:07 / 23.05.07
I wondered what that metallic, smouldering smell was.

With my beaming Lazercat eyes I re-open the connectors to Sibelian's Lovingly Restored Edwardian Conservatory.

Ha.
 
 
Quantum
10:08 / 23.05.07
Like any debate about changing the board, it's a waste of typing. The best thing is to argue about what the new name *should* be in a big old catfight since it won't ever actually change;



STEVE DO NOT WANT! DAKKA DAKKA!
 
 
Quantum
10:26 / 23.05.07


PANCAKE CAT WANT HAUS OV PANCAKES!
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
10:27 / 23.05.07
(I agree with Quantum to an extent, but I also like talking about names and branding and identity-association, so I don't really mind tossing this stuff around.)

What *is* this site supposed to be? Is it a Grant Morrison fan site or not?

Not.

If not, I don't see a reason for it to be called Barbelith at all

If we were creating an online forum from scratch with no overt intention of discussing Grant Morrison at all, I'd say there is no reason to call it "Barbelith" as well.

But there's (a) a lot of effort and energy and goodwill behind this iteration of "Barbelith," and (b) renaming it would cause a lot of divisiveness, angst, arguments over best names (STEVE aside, which is obviously perfect) etc.

and I don't understand how we owe to the gentleman to make his hypersigil expand further

We don't. That's not a central concern of mine, anyway. Were this site currently named "Gaffleflab" after a special kind of sandwich made in Tom Coates' favourite restaurant, and had it evolved from a sandwich recipe site into this discussion board, I'd be arguing just as strongly to keep "Gaffleflab" and saying that it means more to more people than the sandwich name means to just the sandwich.

...and are very unlikely to be able to do so to anywhere near the level his original casting of it has. It's out there on comic shop shelves ... it's circulation surely way outstrips the visibility of this site.

I disagree there.

World population > comic-book readers > late '90s comic-book readers > late '90s "mature comics" comic-book readers > late '90s Vertigo comic-book readers > Invisibles comic-book readers > Invisibles comic-book readers who remember the name of that satellite thingy > Invisibles comic-book readers who remember the name of that satellite thingy and care to look it up on the Internet.

Google for "Barbelith" returns first this forum, second the old "Bomb" archives, third a Wikipedia entry on this forum, fourth barbelith.co.uk.

Dollars to donuts that if the "Barbelith Temple" project comes off, Barbelith will have more currency from that once it starts circulating than from the Grant Morrison fanstragglers. Anecdotally, the call for submissions to the project seems to have attracted a lot of new applications from interesting, intelligent people to the board.

I think the rebranding is a good idea, but branding something brand new would probably be even better. To me, at least, it's the ideas that matter, and I think they can survive being separated from the name. Dontcha think?

Well, mostly. A name change would entail a lot of discussion about names, and as we all know discussions can get a bit terse around here sometimes. Some people would probably drop off through the changeover, not updating their bookmarks or whatnot, and other "satellite" posters (ha! ha!) who don't stop in consistently would lose track of the site. More dwindling.

I have no guarantee that a new name would be more engaging and attractive than Barbelith, but a certain sense that the changeover would entail a drop in active posters.

From a more practical perspective, if I'd taken the time it took me to write this post and e-mailed some of my more intelligent, Internet-centric friends to invite them here, I might have done a bit to accumulate new members. If I'd taken this time to post something on my blog, or a reply on someone else's blog, mentioning Barbelith (the forum), it would raise the Barbelith-as-forum stock a bit more out there in the ether.

Every day, the Invisibles gets older. But Barbelith-the-forum doesn't, because new members arrive, new posts are written, new ideas are tossed around. Inevitably, Barbelith-the-forum would/will eclipse Barbelith-the-Morrison-satellite, while keeping an interesting tie back to its earlier roots. Which also appeals to me.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:40 / 23.05.07
Why don't we just call the site "underground". It's a really generic term and it's already at the top of the page and we'd never have to talk about it again.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:48 / 23.05.07
I have to say that my only real concern with a name-change is purely selfish and presumes that the site address changed too. I post a lot from work and I'd be worried that a new iteration of the site could be blocked by work filters. Which would certainly mean I'd be posting less.

...

I know. Try not to cry.

...

My personal suggestion would be to just change the name to Underground. That way we'd draw a whole new wave of people who were actually looking for info on trains/sewers/tunnels/Justice League*.

Tom, if you're around, how difficult would it be to alter the name of the site?

*Alright, not the last one. Probably none of the others either.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:49 / 23.05.07
That'd be a X-post with Anna there.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:52 / 23.05.07
Why do people always think that inviting their friends makes Barbelith better?
 
 
Quantum
10:56 / 23.05.07
*sobs* what are you saying?!

I was thinking, and I thought of the perfect solution- we get everyone to move to a new board and we call it... Livejournal. I know, I know, it's a radical rebranding but come on people you know it makes sense.

Anna, Evil Scientist, we can call it Underground amongst ourselves but since the address is barbelith.com I'm not sure it would help. Also, the tube is a big old brand already.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
11:46 / 23.05.07
How about something with "monkey" in it? Monkeys are generically amusing these days, it seems. Or "lard"? Always good for a giggle. What about "spasm"? Makes ME smile, for sure. How about "monkeylardspasm"? super hilarious, eh?
 
 
Janean Patience
11:52 / 23.05.07
Is it a Grant Morrison fan site or not?

This surely isn't just a Grant Morrison fan site, no. For many reasons; the most obvious being that it contains so much content that has no relation to Mr M and has many members who couldn't give a fuck about him.

But is this the top Grant Morrison discussion forum on the internet? Can you find whole threads about even his most obscure works? If you want to talk about ASSuperman, is there anywhere else where it will be treated so delicately or so reverently and in such obsessive detail?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:59 / 23.05.07
Quite. What we really need is for there to be a Morrison version of Byrne Robotics or Millarworld - there must be enough people around who would be happy to run it for free? In fact, it would be a _great_ way of getting Grant to notice you, if you set one up. He'd probably be your friend and hang out with you, online and IRL, just as he did with us before we allowed ourselves to lose focus.
 
 
Quantum
12:05 / 23.05.07
just as he did with us before we allowed ourselves to lose focus.

Shurely you mean before the connectorz were closed? I think you're right though, Morrisonworld.org would be brilliant, anyone up for it?

Anyone?
 
 
Triplets
12:12 / 23.05.07
Hi id. As you've sussed I didn't mean twee that way, though apologies if it means something nastier where you are. The problem is that I can't stand overly-cute childishness. Or cats. Which are rubbish. You see my problem.

Bear in mind I am the dude who posted this weeks before you lot began throwing the laughing felines.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
13:19 / 23.05.07
This may be a bad idea, but would a subtle shift to referencing this site as "barbelith.com" be out of the question?

Too "2004 cutting-edge marketing trendz!" maybe, but it would be the shortest route for distinguishing "barbelith.com" the forum from "Barbelith" the satellite.
 
 
petunia
13:25 / 23.05.07
Or cats. Which are rubbish.

Oh dear, oh dear. I'm afraid we are now enemies, mister Lenin.
 
 
Triplets
13:31 / 23.05.07
I'm a stringent anti-catitalist.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:32 / 23.05.07
I think a grant fansite would be a better idea than a Grant fansite.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:45 / 23.05.07
I love the name, and I don't think it implies 'total Grant fanboy site' -- most people don't even remember what the name "Barbelith" means anyway or that it's from The Invisibles (for those who have only a cursory knowledge of The Invisibles, I mean - and there are many of those out there). I think the site speaks for itself in that it's long since grown out of being a fan site - like, at least 10 years long since grown out. Really, upon coming to the site for the first time, there's nothing to indicate 'Grant fansite' at all. Just a good solid message board with a cool design.
 
 
grant
13:51 / 23.05.07
o god.

i'd have to change my name

for real.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:58 / 23.05.07
I think the site speaks for itself in that it's long since grown out of being a fan site - like, at least 10 years long since grown out.

The Nexus was set up in 1998. Thank you for playing.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
13:59 / 23.05.07
grant, I will give you $5 if you legally change your name to
"Total Grant Fansite."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:05 / 23.05.07
I'll chuck in ten English pounds.
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:09 / 23.05.07
The Nexus was set up in 1998. Thank you for playing.

Yeah but you have to add some on for the impromtu Time War between Lab and Temple back in 2035.
 
  

Page: 12(3)456

 
  
Add Your Reply