BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Assessing your own practice

 
  

Page: 123(4)

 
 
This Sunday
05:37 / 17.08.07
I just pulled dinner out of the oven and put a slice and a glass to the side before scoring my own. That's the best part of my practice and it's the best result, too.

It's probably a good thing the rest of you are putting in the effort to keep the sun going 'round and us going 'round the sun, sky up, dirt down, and all that.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:22 / 17.08.07
so saideth Zir Ipol

I've never used a teacher and I never will aside from that great punisher and lover of fuck-ups, the universe.

the first point. "no teacher but the universe."

The issue with most people that consider themselves a teacher, advanced in their years, a mentor, high adeptus maximus; the unchecked ego starts to creep in if it hasn't already set up full root.

the second point. "human teachers are fallible."

why do you feel that the universe isn't trying to teach you via the medium of human teachers??? They're part of the entirety of existence as well, as it happens. You dismiss them, you dismiss "the great punisher and lover."
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:38 / 17.08.07
Zir Ipol: That's just daft though. What if you wanted to learn to be a better plumber? Would you start ripping the floorboards up and yanking the pipes out at random? Or if you wanted to be a hairdresser, or a carpenter, or learn a martial art, or make really great pizza. You wouldn't think twice about getting training from someone in the know for those things--why should magic be any different?

I have teachers and I'm bloody glad of them. My teachers are my friends and peers--not Adeptus Majors in funny hats, but good mates who've been around the block a few times and can give me good solid info based on their experiences. I've come on in leaps and bounds since I got off my Lone Darque Magus high horse and started accepting advice from people who've gone a bit further down the path than me.

I've had bad teachers too, of course, and I'm not going to understate the potential for horrendous vandalism to be wrought by an unchecked ego in a teacher hat esp. when the subject at hand is teh hmadjyx. But being aware of that isn't the same as assuming that all teaching is false and damaging.
 
 
brother george
17:19 / 17.08.07
Funny thing is, most real Adeptus Majors are quite unassuming, quiet and friendly.
 
 
Quantum
17:29 / 17.08.07
...but do have funny hats.
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:50 / 17.08.07
Hmmm, this one makes me think everytime, when magic is considered to be about the one eternal true divinity, then perhaps there is a case for no human agency, yet every human becomes an expression of that precept so every human being at there best is a direct expression and reflection of that precept. Human beings at there worst maybe considered otherwise but yet still containing that potential.

Now there are alot of assumptions their and so many systems differ in philosophical expression that the above precept can become a little worn, unless its a precept you happen to subscribe too.

Also their is this longing to find a god/goddess in another human being without recognising our own frailty and weakness at the outset. Without recognition at just how lame we are sometimes its difficult to recognise the particular weakness of any teacher, looking for ideals tends to make you think that you may be one since that is what you are trying to ascribe too.

Its a raw deal trying to be perfecti, any teacher worth there salt recognises that they are still a beginner a student, if they dont and they inflate there knowledge instead and try to make that they are the cosmos, demi urges of grandiosity appear along with the fault lines.

Teaching magic as well has a variety of different approaches, any one approach raised over the rest, i personally would be wary of, their are advantages and disadvantages to all of them, finding what works best for me is a part of that process, but its also a case of finding what works best for the environments i am in as well.

Teachers teach they do not command or insist that there way is the only way, except of course spiritual totalitarians.
A community of teachers is probably the answer to that dilemma as is a variety of choices and an understanding that all truth is very human in terms of our own understanding.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
21:58 / 17.08.07
wolfangel,

nice summation.
 
 
Sublime Pathos
01:16 / 19.08.07
Yea, I retract what I said earlier. Sorry I had more than some beers in me and wasn't too happy with someone acting like a teacher.

Though, I do place more value upon peer networks than I do mentor types. At least with me I tend to build obsession over the mentor type and while I learn a lot from them it isn't until after the relationship is over that I can view what they taught me with an objective mind. With peer networks I'm able to view it with an objective mind during the discourse. While it takes more effort to learn this way I've found it more rewarding than the previous so far. Perhaps I've yet to have a great teacher, and yes you are correct to say that the universe teachers us through others. Also it's my understanding that the true adepts have a sense of humor so my remark was to those who claim it and focus upon that title without the sense of humor. Usually the type that take questions of their subjective experience as "great offense".

Sorry for the turd of a post earlier.
 
 
Sublime Pathos
01:20 / 19.08.07
...also I'm quite daft.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:13 / 19.08.07
'Sokay. We can all be a bit daft sometimes.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:01 / 19.08.07
(Incidentally, I really wish that the word "magician" had the same weight as "plumber" or "midwife" in people's mouths. So much of the bollocks surrounding WIIWD would just evaporate if that could happen.)
 
 
Sublime Pathos
18:15 / 19.08.07
Far off from the same taste as plumber yet close to mid-wife. People will go to magicians for charms, herbal help and cards as much as they would go to a stripper for entertainment or mental release. But when it comes to something as life and death as child birth I doubt people are willing to trust the title of magician with such affairs. By the way is there a screening process or certification to become a midwife? What kind of insurance or legal protection do you have when the child doesn't make it?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:43 / 19.08.07
Point. Midwives actually have to complete a course of study and get accredited. Maybe "cowboy plumber" would be a better fit.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
19:23 / 19.08.07
plumbers have to go through apprenticeship, journeyman & join a union (unless it's a guild), but I suppose it depends where you live.

maybe "applied symbologist"
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:02 / 19.08.07
Hence "cowboy": one of those types who advertises by sticking badly-photocopied flyers to junction-boxes, turns up in a rented van, transforms your tiny leaky washer into a humungous re-pipe job, and cocks it up sos you have to call his cousin in next week.

Anyway we've got a thread for What Magicians Should Be Called. Sorry, you can have your Assessing your Practice thread back now.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
01:24 / 20.08.07
a thousand pardons.

mind you, that cowboy plumber discription is my landlord.

nice summoning - your practice goes well...
 
 
Unconditional Love
02:02 / 20.08.07
I have a leaky pipe at present, which is messing with boiler pressure for hot water ..... nightmare, summon no more, banish these cowboys.
 
 
Sublime Pathos
16:11 / 20.08.07
Hmmmm, what would a "Cowboy" Magician entail? Guy rolls up in a beat up old gremlin to exercise a house. Calls forth the help of Shub-Niggurath and opens a rift into nothing in that linen closet you keep all of gradma's fixins' in to suck up the nasties. Now your walls start wailing every night, two guests have committed rape/suicide and translucent globs keep following you around in the kitchen.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
20:48 / 20.08.07
"don't worry. I know just the guy to set things straight. He's my cousin, so...."
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:18 / 20.08.07
The theme of "Magician 1 does a crap job because ze's a fake, Magician 2 appears and sorts it out, possibly doing M1 over in the process" is actually a fairly common one in myth and legend. In Egil's Saga there's an episode where Egil Skallagrimsson (taking a breather from zerking out and killing people) comes upon the family of a sick woman and discovers that her illness is being caused by shoddy runework. He removes the item on which the runes have been carved from her bed, shaves off the dodgy runes into the fire and re-does them properly, after which the woman recovers. Cowboy Viktis.

(The skalds and bards did not record as to whether Egil whistled through his teeth, intoned the holy phrase "dear oh dear, who's been at this, then?" and offered the family a discount for cash.)

In real life, in cultures and communities where "magician" or "witch" or whatever carries real weight, it's kind of like an actual job description. If you cannot perform--if your intended curse target doesn't die, if the person you've purported to cure doesn't live, if the bullets you've blessed fail to find their mark--then you, sir or madam, may rapidly find yourself out of a job.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:25 / 14.11.07
I recently came across a site that kind of neatly illustrates what I was trying to get at above. The author presents a number of channeled communications from various sources, including the Dagda, Odin, Loki, Thor, Brigid, Gandhi and a T-rex. (The dinosaur, not the band.)

It's interesting to note how the "voice" of each character remains virtually the same. The substance of the communications consists of two main ingredients: vague generalities and reassurance as to how much They like the author and dislike those groups ze evidently has a beef with. Everyone--animal, spirit or God--seems to be terribly concerned with things like mean goths, mean neopagans and mean people who send rude emails.
 
 
Papess
13:13 / 14.11.07
From the site Mordant mentions above:

o the Irish, my people, were forced out, by famine and other forces. Much like the Tibetans by the communists. It was needed, just as the Dalai Lama has said many times. The Tibetans had grown so used to their millennia of isolation. Such wisdom and knowledge kept from the world. That was wrong. Yet they would not budge. The communist chinese came. The Tibetans had to leave, to spread their wealth upon the Earth. It was true justice, and all the yelling and waving of "Free Tibet" banners will not alter that. For there are consequences to actions. Sealing your self from the World is an action, and one with consequences indeed. You say that the Dalai Lama is a great man and leader. He has spoken of this. Why do you not listen to him on this matter?


Can I give them a vajra-thud?
 
 
EvskiG
15:43 / 14.11.07
The theme of "Magician 1 does a crap job because ze's a fake, Magician 2 appears and sorts it out, possibly doing M1 over in the process" is actually a fairly common one in myth and legend.

K1963: Sham magician

L142.2: Resuscitation by magician

God, I love the Motif-Index of Folk Literature.

Someday I'll spring for the six-volume set.
 
 
grant
16:28 / 14.11.07
WANT!

Never heard of it before.

Sorry, going off on a tangent. But WANT!
 
 
EvskiG
19:51 / 14.11.07
A little bit more about the organization of the Index here.

Here's a sample:

D. Magic

There are many D motifs because magic is prominent in both fairy tales and myths. These motifs may refer to the types of magical transformation, to magical objects, or to magic powers. A few examples of D motifs are:

D174. Transformation: man to cuttlefish.
D711. Disenchantment by decapitation.
D1069.1. Magic handkerchief.
D1573.1. Much butter made from little milk by power of saint.
D1964.1 Savage elephant lulled to sleep by virgin.
D2143.1. Rain produced by magic.
D2197. Magic dominance over animals.

F. Marvels

It is sometimes difficult to distinguish between D. Magic and F. Marvels. [We] can offer two guidelines: first, magic is not natural. Therefore, something amazing but natural such as a marvelously strong hero, would be found under F. Marvels and not under D. Magic. If, however, a puny hero put on a belt of tremendous strength, that would fall under D. Magic. The second guideline is that magic requires a deliberate action. Therefore, although we may not think of fairies as natural, they are categorized under F. Marvels rather than D. Magic because they merely existed, in spite of any action taken by the hero or villain. Under marvels we also find beliefs about the otherworld (Tir Na Nog, Avalon, Hell, or FairyLand) and how to get there. A few examples of F motifs are:

F162.8. Magic fountain in otherworld.
F343.13. Fairy gives mortals a child.
F511.0.4. Man carries his head under his arm.
F531.6.5.1. Giants can make selves invisible.
F569.1. Woman lays eggs and hatches them.
F771.1.10. Gingerbread house.
F932.1. River pursues fugitive.
F1083.0.1.3. Jerusalem suspended in air.


One hell of a resource for magicians.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:09 / 14.11.07
Am now made of WANT.
 
 
EvskiG
20:32 / 14.11.07
Any major university should have the database online -- like here.

And it's available on CD-ROM for $400 here.

Or for $75 per volume here.

A perfect Chanukah/Christmas/Eid al Adha/Yule present.

This has been an unpaid advertisement.
 
  

Page: 123(4)

 
  
Add Your Reply