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My introduction :)

 
  

Page: 123(4)567

 
 
Proinsias
18:36 / 13.03.07
Mama said the pistol was the devil's right hand.
 
 
spectre
18:37 / 13.03.07
D.U.F.S., the sport of kings; well, the sport that kings place bets on, anyway.
 
 
spectre
18:39 / 13.03.07
and thinking of guns, and drugs, and Johnny Cash, etc:

Early one mornin' while makin' the rounds
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed I stuck that lovin' 44 beneath my head
Got up next mornin' and I grabbed that gun took a shot of cocaine and away I run
Made a good run but I run too slow they overtook me down in Juarez Mexico
Late in the hot joints takin' the pills in walked the sheriff from Jericho Hill
He said Willy Lee your name is not Jack Brown
You're the dirty heck that shot your woman down
Said yes oh yes my name is Willy Lee if you've got the warrant just aread it to me
Shot her down because she made me sore
I thought I was her daddy but she had five more
When I was arrested I was dressed in black
They put me on a train and they took me back
Had no friend for to go my bail they slapped my dried up carcass in that country jail
Early next mornin' bout a half past nine I spied the sheriff coming down the line
Ah and he coughed as he cleared his throat
He said come on you dirty heck into that district court
Into the courtroom my trial began where I was handled by twelve honest men
Just before the jury started out I saw the little judge commence to look about
In about five minutes in walked the man holding the verdict in his right hand
The verdict read in the first degree I hollered Lowdy Lowdy have a mercy on me
The judge he smiled as he picked up his ben 99 years in the Folsom pen
99 years underneath that ground I can't forget the day I shot that bad bitch down
Come on you've gotta listen unto me lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie; cocaine.

 
 
petunia
19:21 / 13.03.07
There ain't no place to run!
There ain't no place to run!
There ain't no place to run!
You dirty son of a gun
 
 
Saint Keggers
20:20 / 13.03.07
-thread rot

Hi Scarlett_156! Welcome aboard!

-end thread rot-
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:23 / 13.03.07
Yeah, hi Scarlett. Don't be put off- as you can see there are many varying opinions on gun ownership on here (I'm against it myself, but many people I respect aren't).
 
 
Sole Eater
20:36 / 13.03.07
An estate is a relatively limited area in which to control a population, when compared to Australia which is pretty massive. So whilst the impact of shotgun-toting middle-management types on an elk population will have some kind of limiting effect, I'm dubious about the effectiveness of lone hunters vrs feral animals within the Australian environment.

Not as true as you might think. Whole populations of critters have been wiped out by injudicial gun usage. One of the reasons we have green groups nowadays campaigning for animal population management (I'm not talking about the rabid, dreadlock-toting professional protesters here) is to stop the degradation of species through lone riflemen taking potshots at passing wildlife.

Crocodiles were never considered a threat during my early years up here in the Territory. Then the government placed a total ban on the hunting of crocs by anyone other than the tradition owners. Within 15 years the noisesome buggers were back in plague proportions.

Same deal with the ferals I shoot. When hunting on Arnhem Land, it is with the express written permission of the traditional landholders through one of the Land Councils. They know only too well the damage caused by these foraging beasties which destroy sacred waterholes with their penetrative hooves, carry tuberculosis and generally make it hard for the native species to survive.

Killing a donkey or a pig from half a mile away, for the apparent main purpose of feeling empowered as a human? I still don't see it as anything much but cruel, I'm afraid. The benefit to the environment sounded, even in the original post, like an attempt to justify the pleasure of the killing

The empowerment is a terminal by-product, if you like, not the driving force of the exercise. The application of skills learned on the shooting range taken to the next level is mainly what I'm seeking. To draw a bead on a smallish, moving target at 500 metres; allow for windage, judge the distance and squeeze off a head shot that drops a three quarter tonne bull gives more satisfaction than popping a possible at the range. The "thrill of the hunt" is a term that wasn't coined lightly.

Of course, that's just the last minute or so of what may have been a five hour hunt. To stalk a wary buff (and believe me, the buffalo on the Walker River flood plains are very wary) is no mean achievement. Biting sandflies, oppressive heat, dehydration, the threat of getting bushed all add to the challenge. The buffalo have incredible hearing and their sight isn't so bad either. But what will bring you undone is their sense of smell.

And of course, while on the flood plains, every pool could contain an unseen 6 metre lizard with hunger pang or just a morally outraged sense of territorial pride. Not really sure where you could find that sort of closeness to Mother Gaea in the big smoke. Spraying aphid spray on the roses maybe?

As I said, quite empowering really.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:41 / 13.03.07
the rabid, dreadlock-toting professional protesters

I know we're in different countries, but I think that stereotype could maybe do with another thread, cos I can see that one getting REAL messy.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:57 / 13.03.07
The empowerment is a terminal by-product, if you like, not the driving force of the exercise. The application of skills learned on the shooting range taken to the next level is mainly what I'm seeking. To draw a bead on a smallish, moving target at 500 metres; allow for windage, judge the distance and squeeze off a head shot that drops a three quarter tonne bull gives more satisfaction than popping a possible at the range. The "thrill of the hunt" is a term that wasn't coined lightly.


So you get your kicks at showing off your skills (even if it's just to yourself) and "dropping" a target that's more difficult than an object, and so you can feel good about yourself, another living creature loses its life with a bullet in its head. Not so you can eat, though you come up with an afterthought justification about side-benefit to the environment. Not so you can protect yourself, because it's half a mile away posing no threat. This still seems pretty callous and cruel to me.

It almost doesn't seem a big leap from the kind of attitude you describe to the way a sniper would describe the pleasure of getting a difficult head shot on a human being.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:59 / 13.03.07
Sorry, that was quite clumsily written in places, but I hope the point comes across.
 
 
ibis the being
22:11 / 13.03.07
In the sober light of day I've put the bullets at one end of the house and piece at another. I don't have children. I can't really just "get rid of" what is, inappropriate or not, a gift from my father in law. He would probably rather take it back than have me dump it off... and I don't want him to have it. A lock box is a lovely idea but at the moment I don't even have the money for postage stamps, so, that'll have to wait.

More than the ins and outs of "gun safety" per se, what interests me is the way having a gun in my possession dramatically skewed my sense of vulnerability to Crime and Bad Guys. Where before I had felt relatively safe in my house alone - and before moving here I have lived alone for years - but as soon as I brought a handgun home I became preoccupied with home invasion. Every little noise in night raised my hackles. My father in law watches the local news, which in our city sensationalizes local violent crimes to an absurd degree, and obsesses over the idea of arming and defending himself against intruders. I think that becoming armed somehow actualizes general threat to your personal safety in a way that nothing else really does, other than a real personal assault.
 
 
Corey Waits
22:33 / 13.03.07
I shot a gun once. I had a strange moment of existential terror when I realized I could kill myself or anyone else in that room with my finger and will. The force alone makes you feel so powerful. I hated it.

Being a city-dwelling Australian, and having had no contact with firearms at all, I can say with near-certainty that if I had had easy access to a gun at various stages of my life I wouldn't be here today. Feeling depressed and worthless is one thing, but feeling depressed and worthless and having a quick and simple means of ending it is something entirely different.
I suppose that if you're living in the US and guns are a daily reality then you probably wouldn't have such a fatalistic point of view...

I want to shoot a gun so I can feel the existential terror for myself, plus I figure if I ever want to write a character shooting a gun, it would probably be impossible to describe accurately without having done it myself.

Those are kind of two very different viewpoints on the issue, but yeah, I just wanted to add my 2c.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
22:58 / 13.03.07
I suppose that if you're living in the US and guns are a daily reality

I live in the US and have never touched a gun. The only guns I've ever seen are the ones in police holsters, and once when I was in West Virginia I saw them being sold at a WalMart, which startled me no end. I still tell that story to my friends in California for the shock value.
 
 
HCE
23:11 / 13.03.07
On a personal note, Sole Eater, you're totally creeping me out.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:25 / 13.03.07
Biting sandflies, oppressive heat, dehydration, the threat of getting bushed all add to the challenge. The buffalo have incredible hearing and their sight isn't so bad either. But what will bring you undone is their sense of smell.

And of course, while on the flood plains, every pool could contain an unseen 6 metre lizard with hunger pang or just a morally outraged sense of territorial pride. Not really sure where you could find that sort of closeness to Mother Gaea in the big smoke.


Well you make it sound terrible, certainly.

Which kind of begs the question; why go out there in the first place? It sounds as if the animals wouldn't really miss you if you decided to spend your time off work playing video games instead.

The idea that this is in some sense a noble battle you're engaged in, against creatures that you hsve to drive for hours to get a clear shot at, in a fight that you're pretty obviously going to win, because you have a gun, seems a bit strange. If you want to take on a real challenge with regard to your prowess as a hunter why not have a go at the American embassy? And failing that, I suppose it might be an idea to admit that you kill animals of a weekend because you find it enjoyable, and that's it?

I don't much care for that myself, but then again, I'm not a vegetarian, so who am I to criticise?
 
 
Triplets
23:49 / 13.03.07
Every little noise in night raised my hackles.

Was it particularly wise then, to have had the gun on the nightstand?
 
 
ibis the being
00:21 / 14.03.07
No, it wasn't. Not trying to argue that at all.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
00:38 / 14.03.07
Feeling depressed and worthless is one thing, but feeling depressed and worthless and having a quick and simple means of ending it is something entirely different.

Hm, I wouldn't say it’s actually that simple. Maybe for you, but imagine the aftermath. Not pretty, quick nor simple.

suppose that if you're living in the US and guns are a daily reality then you probably wouldn't have such a fatalistic point of view...

I live in the US south where guns are portrayed as being rampant things that are wielded in the streets often used to kill squirrel, pigeon or raccoons that frequent the trashcans outside of Wal-Mart. Sadly this image doesn't hold up very well with what I've experienced.
I know quite a bit of people who hunt for sport, some family members included, but I wouldn’t say I’m at all used to or even comfortable with the idea that an inch piece of steel fired from a barrel could end my life with no second thinking.

But I suppose there is something to be said from witnessing a firearm in action. Most of my family members who use guns stress the importance of safety and often find it taboo to wield toy guns in rampant and farcical ways.
 
 
Slim
01:07 / 14.03.07
I've fired handguns a few times at a firing range. I was curious to see what it was like to fire a gun and even more curious at how good a shot I am. It turns out that I'm a terrible shot and guns scare the heck out of me. They make it far too easy to kill someone.

Of course, my fear might be a result of my mother absent-mindedly pointing a loaded .45 at my chest from 2 feet away.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:18 / 14.03.07
It's a bit like juggling or reciting Hiawatha, isn't it, Sole Eater's hobby? No practical use, but a nice party piece should you find yourself in the company of people impressed by such skills.

Having said which, do those 6-metre lizards happen to look uncannily like shiny, threatening, erect penises, by any chance?
 
 
astrojax69
01:34 / 14.03.07
have we lost scarlett 156??
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:40 / 14.03.07
No - she is posting in various places, just not here. Have a look round. We'll have to work a bit harder to get a really satisfying "how can we treat people this way? What have we BECOME?" out of this one.

Hence, you know, the giant scaled penises with teeth.
 
 
Saint Keggers
01:55 / 14.03.07
They can have my giant scaled penises with teeth when they pry it from my cold dead hands!!
 
 
Corey Waits
03:30 / 14.03.07
Perhaps I should've explained what I meant by 'guns being a daily reality' in the US as opposed to Australia.

Sure, maybe you don't come across guns every day of the week, but if you felt so inclined you could go out and buy yourself a gun without too much hassle. That's true isn't it? It's not a generalisation?

Here in Australia, it's illegal to own a firearm in almost all instances, and if you do have a permit to own a firearm, in most cases you aren't allowed to keep it on your home (it must remain at the pistol club where you are a member). This is suburban Queensland I'm talking about, I'm sure the laws are probably different in other states and in less-densely populated areas of this one.
And beyond the legal and beauracratic red tape, there are very few places where you can actually purchase a firearm. The only one I know of in my 'local' area is about an hours drive away.

So that's what I meant by my previous comments. Here in Australia I wouldn't even know where to start if I wanted to go out and buy a gun, but from my understanding it would be a simple task in the US.
 
 
grant
03:55 / 14.03.07
Eh. It's not like they're in every department store.

Just some of 'em.

For the record (if anyone cares) I'm a Certified Safe Hunter and a vegetarian. I've shot guns a few times in a few different places, but never to kill anything.

I have a friend -- actually, he's posted on here a couple times -- who was a state biologist and a (slightly more ethical than me) vegetarian. Had a great story about his conflict between the not killing animals and the having to kill the (invasive) coyotes who were predating on (endangered) sea turtle nests. Had to hire these bounty hunters... real hunters, you know, for hire. Anyway, it's his story, not mine.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:32 / 14.03.07
allow for windage, judge the distance and squeeze off a head shot that drops a three quarter tonne bull gives more satisfaction than popping a possible at the range

I know you probably think you know what satuisfaction is, Solo Eater, but the truth is that you don't, and you never will, until you have the experience I had last weekend, which was to take on an entire warehouse full of heavily armed South London badboys with my beautiful bisexual partner as back-up. When I finally burst into that upstairs room, blasted the last bodyguard's kneecaps off with the shottie, and then squeezed off three shots from the .38 to give the seven-foot tall gang leader two in the chest, one in the face, I felt like God himself must feel, I tell you. I felt like fucking God.

A "normal" sexual relationship will never be enough again, I suspect.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:43 / 14.03.07
You know, though, what is really normal? Is it a person who enjoys the use of guns, with and sometimes on a consenting love-partner, in an environment of mutual respect?

Or is it the businessman, in his suit and tie, who looks at the ladies on the train and wonders what they look like with their tops off?
 
 
Tsuga
09:50 / 14.03.07
I still wish there was some forum on nature and the environment. I'd like to talk more about the proliferation of non-native flora and fauna. I think Sole's justifications are thin excuses for thrill-seeking bloodlust (just an opinion, mind you), but the reality of some animals being environmental disasters is very real.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:00 / 14.03.07
I think that probably fits in the Laboratory, Tsuga.
 
 
Princess
10:00 / 14.03.07
That would go in Laboratory wouldn't it?
Or, if you thought there would be enough conversations to creat a whole new forum then you could just add an NE: to the beggining of each of the threads. Then you'd get a virtual forum like's been done with H&SBR.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:26 / 14.03.07
I wear a suit and tie, Haus. But only when I attend environmentalist protests, to challenge the reality tunnels of the dirty hippies. Ha. Hahahaha.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
10:49 / 14.03.07
...Or is it the businessman, in his suit and tie, who looks at the ladies on the train and wonders what they look like with their tops off?

Good God, did Haus just reference mid-to-late nineties Lee and Herring comedy show Fist of Fun? Moon on a stick, weak lemon drink, Jelly! etc.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
11:03 / 14.03.07
only when I attend environmentalist protests, to challenge the reality tunnels of the dirty hippies.

Interesting question: do you still get £30 and a packed lunch as a professional protester, or is there an upper salary scale if you're at an executive-level?
 
 
jentacular dreams
11:07 / 14.03.07
I'd like to talk more about the proliferation of non-native flora and fauna. I think Sole's justifications are thin excuses for thrill-seeking bloodlust (just an opinion, mind you), but the reality of some animals being environmental disasters is very real.

Very true, though obviously no animal* has caused quite as much disaster as man, both directly and by encouraging certain species of plant or animal over the native flora/fauna. It is interesting that we (often retrospectively) grant priveleges to certain species, whilst rarely taking that message to heart.

*Well, no animal bar Destoroyah, obviously.
 
 
Ex
11:13 / 14.03.07
*and love, which is unarguably a big, scary animal.
 
  

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