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That thing i do -- feminism -- size matters

  
  

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E. Coli from the Milky Way
04:54 / 31.10.06
Ok, this went offtopic and i started posting "nonsense links" -- links that answered previous posts, like the one of the bonobos and all of that. Anyway, since ths actitude mine bother people im the temple, i move here because I think i'm not babbling nonsense.

This went all because the size matters thing.

Size matters.

Hysteria comes from the greek Hystion that means "uterus".

Dr Juan Marelo-Barberá has reported numerous cases where there are orgiastic borths.

Actually, there are woman than, beside having clitoridian or vaginal orgasms, have uterinian orgasms.

In Africa some woman are able to give birth while they stand up, with no pain, feeling orgasms. That's because oxitocin -- an hormone related to orgasm, dilatation of uterus and that is founded in ergot.

In some humanist labor, it was found that, the less the neocortex is excited while labor (your human part of the brain, Quantum) and the less the lymbic/cortical system is uninhibited (your monkey/lizzard legacy, Quantum), less pain is experienced by women.

Dr Barbera also states that a lot of his patients say that when they become aware of the uterus, they lost his neurosis and are able to socialize better.

So a big penis has the evolutive advantage of stimulating better the uterus.

Look at that dyionisiac/phalic cults on india, and all that ...

During my studies on health asistant (or nursery if you want) i've listened more than three times (in mouth of woman) that "all that she needs it's a ride with a big big co**"

So i think i'm not typing nonsense ...

And Quantum, as The Specials said:
Aye aye aye, aye aye aye
Tell you baby, you huggin up the big monkey man
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:17 / 31.10.06
Size does matter. My spell-checker, for example, is clearly much bigger than yours. I'm not sure, for example, what an "orgiastic borth" is, but it sounds painful.

1. This is bordering on incoherent.

2. Even if I can pretend I can parse the "grammar" contained herein, er - what? This is just a collection of random, unsourced, and dubious statements about gender. Dubious. This is, in fact, so dubious on first glance that the Dooby Brothers may be showing up with violin cases and Tax Collector action figures at any minute*.

3. Jumping fora to deal with some weird disagreement is of questionable merit as well.

* No, I don't know what I mean either, it's late. Consequently: footnotes.
 
 
Ganesh
06:13 / 31.10.06
Are we suggesting that a large enough penis will not merely fill the vagina but somehow traverse the cervix and stimulate the uterus itself? I'm not sure it'll catch on as an alternative to epidural.
 
 
illmatic
06:48 / 31.10.06
Uterine orgasms may well exist, but surely the best person to talk about them is someone who's actually got a uterus, and has experienced said orgasm?

I mean, do men have uterus or not?
*looks down*

I'm just not sure....
 
 
ghadis
07:02 / 31.10.06
I always thought that Specials song was about Dian Fossey and it was one of the reasons my teenage self had such an interest in Zoology.

Damn. I hate it when Barbelith shatters my illusions.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:26 / 31.10.06
In Africa some woman are able to give birth while they stand up, with no pain, feeling orgasms. That's because oxitocin -- an hormone related to orgasm, dilatation of uterus and that is founded in ergot.

Evidence?


So a big penis has the evolutive advantage of stimulating better the uterus.

I think this demonstrates a flawed understanding of how evolutionary pressure shapes physiology.
 
 
Ex
07:33 / 31.10.06
You might be interested in Anne Koedt's 'The Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm'. It's a discussion of the physiological bits of women's anatomy and their effects; it also (if I recall correctly, but I won't risk a google search at work) discusses why it's been culturally important to insist that all women can only find fulfillment through heterosexual penetrative intercourse.

On the other hand, evidence of an orgiastic Borth:



And a very perky Dyfi Estuary.
 
 
Ganesh
07:38 / 31.10.06
Is that one of the Beach Bonoboys?
 
 
Olulabelle
07:46 / 31.10.06
I like your orgiastic borth, Ex.

The Anne Koedt essay is here.
 
 
Ganesh
07:56 / 31.10.06
I always wondered what Big Brother winner and original OGITV Brian Dowling was on about when he stropped, "don't you dare jodge me on my borthday".
 
 
Olulabelle
07:58 / 31.10.06
Some of Anne Koedts essay troubles me though. I object to the fact that she says women who claim to achieve vaginal orgasm are either confused or deceiving.

I also don't agree that It has also been known that women need no anesthesia inside the vagina during surgery, thus pointing to the fact that the vagina is in fact not a highly sensitive area. I mean, bagsy me not try that theory out.

So whilst it's interesting and important, in some ways it's also misleading.
 
 
Spaniel
08:01 / 31.10.06
That quote doesn't fit very well with what I witnessed when the Bosun was being born.

At. Fucking. All.
 
 
Spaniel
08:03 / 31.10.06
Sadly we got to try out some vaginal surgery minus anaesthetic.
 
 
Ex
08:20 / 31.10.06
Yeah, I'd agree that it's hasty and dismissive to say that women are self-deluding if they describe their physiological reactions in a certain way. I think Koedt overstates some bits and ignores others to substantiate her position - I can see why, in the course of poking against years of medical labelling, that she goes to the alternative extreme. And then you get the interesting spin-offs from the politicisation of different kinds of sensation, including the suggestion that any vaginal sensation is the product of brainwashing (sorry, no footnotes at present). All fascinating but also dubious.

But basically, I thought I'd post a mention of that essay because my first thought of a response was a string of question marks and a photocopy of my scrotum.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:21 / 31.10.06
So this is you presenting your ideas in a coherent and meaningful way and backed up with suitable references, is it?

I know that English is not your first language but For. Fuck's. Sake.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:25 / 31.10.06
(For those of you wondering what kicked all this off.)
 
 
Ex
08:37 / 31.10.06
The chance to explain yourself in more depth! Now with free length of rope, and The Barbelith Big Book of Knots!
 
 
Spaniel
08:55 / 31.10.06
It's an interesting essay, Ex, so thanks for posting it. I just find myself strongly disagreeing with some of it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:59 / 31.10.06
Hysteria comes from the greek Hystion that means "uterus".

Yes. Yes it does. It's a word used to describe an old theory that emotional problems in women were caused by their wombs. People used to believe that the womb could wander around inside the abdomen and cause women to have fits. I am not sure how this old and long-discarded idea relates to penis size.

Dr Juan Marelo-Barberá has reported numerous cases where there are orgiastic births.

Reference, please.

Actually, there are woman than, beside having clitoridian or vaginal orgasms, have uterinian orgasms.

Reference, please.

In Africa some woman are able to give birth while they stand up, with no pain, feeling orgasms. That's because oxitocin -- an hormone related to orgasm, dilatation of uterus and that is founded in ergot.

Reference, please.

In some humanist labor, it was found that, the less the neocortex is excited while labor (your human part of the brain, Quantum) and the less the lymbic/cortical system is uninhibited (your monkey/lizzard legacy, Quantum), less pain is experienced by women.

Reference, please.

Dr Barbera also states that a lot of his patients say that when they become aware of the uterus, they lost his neurosis and are able to socialize better.

Reference, please.

So a big penis has the evolutive advantage of stimulating better the uterus.

Just for the record, I and many other women experience moderate to severe discomfort and pain when the penis hits the cervix and prefer to avoid this.

Look at that dyionisiac/phalic cults on india, and all that ...

The large phalli on some statues are usually symbolic of male sexual potency or fertility. I don't see what they have to do with this idea of yours that there's a direct advantage in having a large penis in terms of benefit to the female.

During my studies on health asistant (or nursery if you want) i've listened more than three times (in mouth of woman) that "all that she needs it's a ride with a big big co**"

That's not evidence. It's anecdote--an individual expressing her personal preference.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:17 / 31.10.06
It was Toots and the fucking Maytals.

Not The Specials.

TOOTS AND THE FUCKING MAYTALS.

Normal absence is resumed.

Thank you.
 
 
Quantum
09:52 / 31.10.06
In some humanist labor, it was found that, the less the neocortex is excited while labor (your human part of the brain, Quantum) and the less the lymbic/cortical system is uninhibited (your monkey/lizzard legacy, Quantum), less pain is experienced by women.

OK. I'm going to have a crack at decoding this nonsense. What's humanist labor? Fuck knows, let's move on to the brain in labour. the less the neocortex is excited while labor... and the less the lymbic/cortical system is uninhibited let's rephrase that double negative there, to 'the more the limbic system is inhibited'.
Hmm. I don't think digital horus eye is quite sure of his neuroanatomy there, let's do some linking;

The limbic system (Latin limbus: "border" or "edge") includes the structures in the human brain involved in emotion, motivation, and emotional association with memory. The limbic system includes many different cortical and subcortical brain structures ...

So the lymbic/cortical bit probably refers to a specific part of the brain involving pleasure, if the rambling about orgasms is any indication, so probably the 'pleasure centre';
The limbic system is highly interconnected with a structure known as the nucleus accumbens, commonly called the brain's pleasure center. The nucleus accumbens plays a role in sexual arousal and the "high" derived from certain recreational drugs.

The 'cortical' part I'm not sure of, I think it's just bunged in to sound clever. Cortex is latin for bark as any fule kno, and often refers to the cerebral cortex, the outermost layer of the brain, but that's not the same as the limbic system so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Here's a clue- your monkey/lizzard legacy, Quantum aha! Perhaps he means the reptilian or R-complex, the oldest part of the brain;



But wait- as we can see, the R-complex, Limbic system and Neocortex are three different areas of the brain, how puzzling for Digital Horus Eye.

Anyway, he seems to say that the less the outer, evolutionarily newer part of the brain is excited and the more the limbic system is excited, the less pain women feel in labour. Looking up labour pain it turns out lots of factors influence the perceived pain of childbirth;
Many factors affect pain perception; fear, number of previous births, fetal presentation, cultural ideas of childbirth, birthing position, support given during labor, beta-endorphin levels, and a woman's natural pain threshold.
I notice that nowhere on that list does it say 'having a regular, good deep dicking from a big fat cock' as a diminishing factor of the pain of childbirth.

So, Digital Horus Eye, perhaps you could tell us a bit more about your revolutionary gynaecological insights and breakthrough understanding of neuroscience? I for one am fascinated to hear what you will come up with next. And by the way, you weren't excluded from the Temple, these aren't it's steps, and you're not Jesus. No matter how big a cock you are *ahem* I mean, have.
 
 
Quantum
10:01 / 31.10.06
It's Oxytocin, by the way, a mammalian hormone that also acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain
(Thanks to the Gardener for that musical correction, I was going to have to look it up, The Specials indeed.)
 
 
ghadis
10:21 / 31.10.06
Well, to be fair to the almighty Eye, The Specials did record a very popular cover of said song on their first lp so that part of his first post is not entirely speculative rubbish. Unlike the the other 95% of it
 
 
Quantum
10:33 / 31.10.06
Really? Well fuck my hat, I never knew that. Mind you, I didn't know that in Africa some woman are able to give birth while they stand up, with no pain, feeling orgasms. That's because oxitocin.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
10:34 / 31.10.06
Ok Quantum, yeah, i know there are 3 differenciated parts and the brain and all of this. No puzzling. The thing is that neocortical stimulation during the labor (labor=act of give birth here in Oxford Superlex for Windows) gives pain to the woman.

On references, Merelo Barberà has that book:

Merelo-Barberá, J. Parirás con placer. Kairós, Barcelona, 1980.

I've readed it all on a book of a guy that has recopilated a lot of information on matriarchal societies. "La senda aborigen"

One resuming article (in spanish) full of references if you scroll down can be found here.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
10:44 / 31.10.06
And quantum, please quote ALL that wikipedia's entry:

Oxytocin (Greek: "quick birth") is a mammalian hormone that also acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain. In women, it is released mainly after distention of the cervix and vagina during labor, and after stimulation of the nipples, facilitating birth and breastfeeding, respectively. Oxytocin is released during orgasm in both sexes. In the brain, oxytocin is involved in social recognition and bonding, and might be involved in the formation of trust between people.

Hey, that size matters I think is some kind of universal true. Man, 25 years trying to accept that and now you all come and say that it isn't true!
 
 
ghadis
10:46 / 31.10.06
Quantum, The Specials were full of oxitocin. They had it coming out of their ears. If i recall rightly, they used to bottle it and sell it on the streets of coventry. Chicks loved it apparently.
 
 
Quantum
10:57 / 31.10.06
No puzzling? Whu? I'm puzzled, dude, I am.

Quote the whole thing? It's pages long, dude, at least I read it all.
 
 
Quantum
10:59 / 31.10.06
Sorry, obvious gag- I'll edit that now. But hey, check this out Eye; Hug the Monkey - A weblog devoted entirely to oxytocin.

Here's a question- why does this thread have the word 'feminism' in the title? I'm puzzled.
 
 
Spaniel
11:00 / 31.10.06
I am actually quite interested in the claim that some women find labour an orgasmic experience. I've always put it down to the vagaries of language and the subjectivity of experience, however.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:01 / 31.10.06
DHE, that article says nothing about penis size. Where does the article relate oxytocin to penis size? Or female orgasm, or... or... anything? Where is there any evidence directly connecting large penis size in the male to any benefit at all to the female? The only person relating penis size to anything is you: a man who, by his own admission, has not had sex with a woman in 8 years because he was afraid of becoming a psychic vampire. Might I suggest that you are not best placed to tell us all how our ladyparts work.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:02 / 31.10.06
I can't even begin to understand this thread. But I'm liking Mordant and Quantum's posts in it.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
11:04 / 31.10.06
I notice that nowhere on that list does it say 'having a regular, good deep dicking from a big fat cock' as a diminishing factor of the pain of childbirth

No, but that big fat cock can break a psychosomatic dead lik between brain and uterus. And, hey, all the abdomen is full of neurons and neurotransmitters. Link

Belly's dance is really a womb dance! In some places in Arabia women give birth sourronded by other women that dance belly's dance.

Hahahha! Quantum! You've posted all the Wikipedia entry! hhahha! man, you're fool! Watch your neocortex before you start throwing shit to pedestrians !!!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:10 / 31.10.06
But is a big fat cock the only, or even the best way to break this "psychosomatic dead link between brain and uterus" (assuming such a thing exists). What about other forms of sexual activity? What about yoga, or Reichian breathwork?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:11 / 31.10.06
It's worth noting that I showed Sonja Aurora-Madan this discusseion and she's kind of gone cold on the whole meeting up thing. Sorry, dude.
 
  

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