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The Prestige

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:13 / 25.11.06
No, it just sort of came from my head.
 
 
Scrubb is on a downward spiral
16:43 / 26.11.06
I presume at this stage of the thread, spoilers are to be expected?

I saw this yesterday and loved it. As with others, I am rather miffed by the number of comments about how obvious the Fallon/Borden "twist" was and how unenjoyable the film was once you'd spotted it. I had no idea that it was coming at all - by that stage, all my attention had been drawn to the Tesla machine/drowning of clones, and Borden's set-up in the final act - and thought that it was a lovely reveal.

Some other bits and pieces that I don't think have been mentioned so far:

* There's were some comments upthread about which of Angier and Borden are the "real" magician, which I think is missing the point somewhat - rather, Borden is the magic geek and Angier is the showman. Borden cares about the mechanics of how tricks work - he (and his brother) create all his own tricks (remember that amazing workshop?) and he takes pleasure in the process of the trick itself. His shows are lacklustre until Olivia comes to him - he doesn't understand that the trick itself is not enough, he also needs the show to surround it.The frustration of seeing Angier's transported man isn't simply that "his" trick has been stolen, it's that he cannot work out how Angier does it - bear in mind that Olivia was meant to steal the secret of the trick, when the only secret to be stolen is that of a twin, which obviously Angier cannot replicate, or at least not in any manner conceivable to Borden.

Angier on the other hand doesn't really understand, or want to understand how the tricks actually work - his delight comes in fooling the crowd, "the looks on their faces" (as he says when he's dying). He doesn't build his own tricks - Cutter does that for him - and, as others have said, when he can't work out how to do the Transported Man (even though Cutter has already provided him with the solution), he simply throws money at it until it works although he doesn't care *how* it works. For Angier the show is everything, even at the expense of getting his hands dirty and eventually murdering dozens of his clones.

* Tesla *does* build a machine for Borden - but it's not designed to do anything more than provide some spectacle for his Transported Man (again, this is after Olivia comes to work for him and brings Angiers sense of showmanship over). The first time we see Borden perform the Transported Man, it's in that dingy little theatre with nothing more than two wardrobes on the stage - but the next time, with Olivia, it's in a bigger, grander theatre with electricity sparking between the two wardrobes to provide distraction. Of course, this also distracts Angier when he sees this version of the trick, and he presumes that the machine has something to do with the workings of the trick, forgetting that the first few times it was performed it was done in much simpler settings.

* I'm somewhat baffled by the ongoing discussion about the workings of Angier's Transported Man - whilst it certainly would have been possible for Tesla to present the illusion that the machine worked, via multiple top hats etc, everything after that leads to the conclusion that the machine worked and Angier murdered his clones after every performance - the tanks transported away from the theatre each night, the first time the trick is shown to the theatre's proprietor (who would be unlikely to be fooled by a drunken Roux), the final shot of the multiple tanks with bodies in, the need for blind stagehands, Angier telling Borden that he doesn't understand the sacrifices he's made.
 
 
CameronStewart
17:32 / 26.11.06
>>>I am rather miffed by the number of comments about how obvious the Fallon/Borden "twist" was and how unenjoyable the film was once you'd spotted it.<<<

It's not that the film was unenjoyable - I actually liked it a lot - but I did feel that the experience, for me, would have been far grander had Nolan succeeded in his misdirection (of course assuming, as I do, that it was intended to be a surprise and not something that was supposed to be obvious). Movies like Fight Club, The Usual Suspects, and yes, even The Sixth Sense suckered me in and the final act reveals were quite surprising and satisfying. I wasn't even particularly looking for the twist, trying to be clever and figure it out in advance, there was just a moment in the film when my mind connected all the pieces and I realized what was going on in - I think - advance of when I was meant to.

Aside from that though I think there's a lot to like in The Prestige, and it's overall a very well-crafted film.
 
 
Baz Auckland
02:17 / 27.11.06
Even if the double Borden was spotted early on, there were still the nice journal twists that made me smile. First Angiers is reading Borden's diary, only to have it suddenly address him by name, and the same later with Bordren reading Angiers' where he admits to framing Borden for murder...
 
 
matthew.
14:12 / 27.11.06
I just realized something. When Christian Bale does the trick with the cage and shows the bird to be alive, the little boy in the audience knows that the bird has been killed and has been replaced. If this isn't foreshadowing for what Hugh Jackman does at the end, then I don't know what. It seems to me that the evidence saying the machine actually replicates the person is in far more quantity than evidence saying the machine didn't work and Tesla just bought hats.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:20 / 27.11.06
What about the deleted scene on the DVD where you see Tesla visiting a series of hat-shops? Oh wait, it's not out yet...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
17:03 / 27.11.06
Cameron: "Uh, excuse me? Examples of where I'm "wrong" please?"

Ah, but I don't need to give examples. I'm taking the piss out of you. Do you see?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
17:34 / 27.11.06
In my opinion, part of being a sophisticated cinema viewer is about going along with the process of being fooled, rather than approaching a film as (apparently) some kind of competition with the director, reviewers and people with whom you discuss the film. This thread has demonstrated, I think, that some intelligent viewers didn't find the Borden/Fallon device blindingly obvious. The notion that those who didn't lack the vocabulary to decode cinema, or didn't watch "closely", is borderline insulting I think. I understand that to some, a film ~ particularly a film known to have a twist ~ may seem a puzzle that you're determined to solve. But attitudes like the above seem really quite aggressive and contemptuous of anyone who doesn't share them.

Awwww, dude. I didn't mean to be aggressive and contemptuous, but really, if what I said upset you and your film-watching skills then I seriously recommend you grow a thicker skin.

Essentially, there's no problem with anything you're saying about being 'a sophisticated film viewer', and I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, that's the precise argument I'd use with people like Cameron, who seem to delight in watching films with supposed trick or twist endings and then complaining that it was all too obvious, and/or that there were massive plot holes that prevented him enjoying it (something you won't find such people saying about more traditional types of cinematic narrative - it's as if the existence of a puzzling, twisting narrative is a challenge to be overcome and then spat upon with some of the contempt you mention).

Someone up-thread mentions that they guessed the ending of The Usual Suspects fairly quickly, and this baffles me, because it's not a twist. We're invited all the way through to believe that Keyser Soze might be one of our cast (hence the mystery about his identity), and Verbal's set up as a con man. The pleasure is in watching how the reveal is set up (note that 'twist ending' and 'reveal' are not the same thing in a narrative), just as it is in The Prestige. But it doesn't matter in either film if you don't guess, or are sufficiently immersed that 'guessing' the ending is the last thing on your mind - they work just as well either way.

It's not a question of intelligence, and any survey of various knock-out twisting narratives on this board will find clever, witty and cinematically erudite posters who had no clue until the final five minutes. It's not a big deal. The thing is, we do now have the tool to guess this kind of thing relatively easily should we be of a mind to do so. To me, it makes no real sense that Chris Nolan, a man who has made a career so far out of skilfully skewed narratives, the man who made Memento work so well (with editor Dody Dorn), who even managed an almost flawless reveal in the last third of his Batman movie, would have suddenly left so many massive clues to the Borden/Borden reveal strewn throughout the narrative if he meant it to be part of a twist ending (Occam's Razor - what's more likely?). Not only the kind of cool clues most get by watching the film a second time, a la ...Suspects, but obvious ones. Long close-ups of Fallon at the end of scenes, indicating significance. Long edits of particular shots of Fallon, also indicating significance. The fact that Fallon, unlike Cutter, never speaks and barely acts, and is therefore not a character but a cipher. The question that arises - why, if Borden is so all-fired savantastic when it comes to magic and illusions (and so dead set on making sure everyone, especially his rival, knows it), does he need an ingenieur in the first place? Why is Borden so upset when he's kidnapped? There are so many other examples - subtler hints and blatant pointers, in script, blocking of scenes, editing, the dramatic pacing of the narrative... If you want to look, it's there to be seen, not guessed. I kind of like that there are people out there who don't like to look, and I'm not belittling them. But I have no time for those other people who deliberately pick these things apart and then complain that they're broken.
 
 
CameronStewart
18:03 / 27.11.06
>>>that's the precise argument I'd use with people like Cameron, who seem to delight in watching films with supposed trick or twist endings and then complaining that it was all too obvious, and/or that there were massive plot holes that prevented him enjoying it<<<

What the fuck are you talking about? Where have I given the slightest impression that I "delight" in watching films with twist endings so I can complain about them being beneath me? Where have I said that I didn't enjoy the film?
 
 
Blake Head
01:29 / 28.11.06
Surely there are plenty of reasons that Nolan’s “reveal” could have been meant to surprise the audience rather than it be intentional on the part of the director as part a conclusion which was increasingly “obvious”, as you put it, Hellbunny, as the film progressed? With three sufficiently famous leads there would have been I assume a far greater degree of studio pressure to make the film’s narrative as maximally intelligible to the greatest possible audience. For that matter Nolan could have had less control of the source material than he assumed, or been too ambitious with the themes he introduced, or just had an “off” film. I loved the skill employed in Memento, I don’t think that means Nolan is now incapable of producing a film with a lesser degree of subtlety or narrative ambiguity.

If you want to look, it's there to be seen, not guessed. I kind of like that there are people out there who don't like to look, and I'm not belittling them.

I believe the point Miss W was making, not meaning to speak on their behalf, was that this attitude does come across as very near to belittling. You are capable of “seeing” the clues as certain indicators of an overall design while others don’t see that design, but that’s because they’re choosing not to look, because if they did look they’d see it. Because it’s so obvious. If they’d just look. You are sort of fudging it a bit, I think, by saying that people who don’t see the same evidence that you do are choosing not to use their perception, when presumably the truth of the matter is that some people choose to approach films, differently to you, in that they have little desire to work out the film’s structure from partial clues embedded throughout the film’s progress, and others do approach films with narrative puzzles and attempt to work them out with varying degrees of success or confirmation.

A trick ending wouldn’t be interesting unless there was evidence for it throughout the film, just as making the evidence too obvious reduces the impact of the trick. I think it is meant to be a trick ending, because of the way the “evidence” that an inquiring audience would be looking for is presented, because of the way that the film recaps things the audience could perhaps have assumed but not confirmed (eg Borden on Borden finger mutilation), and the reason I found the “trick” largely unexciting was that in finding the conclusion a confirmation of what I suspected, rather than a surprise, I didn’t appreciate that there were any other realistic possibilities. By the end of the film I don’t think, unlike in The Usual Suspects, that there were any other candidates for the “reveal”, while throughout the film Fallon was lingered on as a mystery tied to Borden, but not directly revealed, meaning that there were little grounds for doubt that he’d be tied to the revelation, or that it wasn't meant to be a revelation. Given that it’s a film that relies on misdirection, on the “turn”, I thought this element was absent, crucially, from what became the central mystery of a film, which, to just rub it in, went on to explain how they did the bloody trick!

You could also add Caine’s opinion, for what it’s worth, on what Nolan is doing after seeing it up close:

"But what you don't realize when you're watching these magicians doing all of these tricks, is that there's an invisible magician at work, and that's Christopher Nolan. He's doing 'a pledge, a turn and the prestige' without you knowing it, until the end. The whole movie is one big magic trick.".

Which, if you are going to accept that that’s what the film is doing, or trying to do, links to what I was saying above about the film (which I and those I went with generally enjoyed) being dissatisfying insofar at it attempts to follow the structure of the magic trick it strongly references. Unless of course I have been tricked by Teh Great Nolan in some unseen away, but with my limited film-watching skills I don’t see any evidence for it. If the Fallon reveal is the misdirection, then I don’t know what the real trick was, except that I didn’t find the result, the prestige if you will, sufficiently captivating.

The problem, for me, personally, was that 1) the evidence was presented in what - I found - to be a visually straightforward way, which I’ll admit I was forewarned about somewhat by reading the novel 2) more significantly, I felt that partly because the evidence seemed so linear the result of the twist or trick at the close of the film was unsatisfying because it seemed to me to lead to a “closed” conclusion and where the route or journey didn’t seem, however complicated, elegant enough 3) more significantly again, I didn’t find that because of that Nolan made the culmination of the film dramatically interesting - to me.

What I’d even suggest, a little more tentatively, is that those viewers who do not confirm their opinions while the film is ongoing remain more open to a greater degree of non-linearity in the structure of films, which I think could be argued was something that The Prestige was lacking. Incidentally, this view might admittedly be only argued by me at this point, so feel free to ignore this post and the one a little further up entirely - but did no one at all catch the first few words of the film? Again, I think it’s before Caine’s early monologue, I think it’s during the shot of the duplicate hats in the forest, and I think it’s Bale speaking. Cheers.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:24 / 28.11.06
Hellbunny, nothing in yr post convinces me that we're intended to be anything other than fooled by A TWIST ENDING. Do you see? A TWIST ENDING. Prestige isn't some kind of post-twist film where surprise doesn't really matter, only the interaction between the audience and the mechanics of the twist, it's a straightforward 'we're magicians so check out the narrative magic trick at the end of the third act' film. Stop playing the apologist and stop being so unpleasant to Cam. You saw the twist coming and didn't care. Cameron saw it and did and therefore felt the film failed a bit. Who gives a toss?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:45 / 28.11.06
Awwww, dude. I didn't mean to be aggressive and contemptuous, but really, if what I said upset you and your film-watching skills then I seriously recommend you grow a thicker skin.

I'll come back to the main content of your post later I hope, but I think that rather than recommending I get used to rudeness, you should maybe be less rude. We can disagree without trying to score points like this.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:57 / 28.11.06
did no one at all catch the first few words of the film?

Have to admit that I got in about 5 minutes late and so no, I didn't. I'm getting the fucker on DVD though, if it's the last thing I do.
 
 
mkt
10:16 / 28.11.06
Prestige isn't some kind of post-twist film where surprise doesn't really matter, only the interaction between the audience and the mechanics of the twist


That's the nub and the gist right there, isn't it? I think it is, see, and I haven't read anything (here or anywhere else) that makes me think otherwise. Some of you think exactly the opposite to me, and haven't read anything that makes you think otherwise.

I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, you know.
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
10:19 / 28.11.06
I've just watched it, and I'm pretty certain that Angier is cloning himself. For one thing, he talks both before and after the act, when Root was incapable of imitating his voice very well (shown to be, when he's pretending to be Angier in the pub with Bale's character). For another, Bale's character has shown the ability to pick both Angier's techniques and the double 'from the back of the theatre', but we're deliberately shown him being astounded and perplexed, when the trick happens, and in his workshop later, both scenes which aren't being narrated to the other magician, or at all, as far as I can see (they're in 'general storytelling mode' rather than 'internal subnarrative').

It was clear to me at the time it happened that Angier was afraid he'd be cloned, and that's why he put the gun there (rather than afraid of being deformed) - but despite that, it didn't occur to me that he had been cloned, the trick in that section being the implication that straight transfer took place, that tesla had fixed the machine. Because the trap-door, in the un-tarted up show for the sponsor, wasn't visible. it wasn't spruced up, there was no reason for doubting it, as the sponsor demanded.

Also, I thought (at the end of the movie, not when the sponsor was saying it) that the fixed run of shows was because Angier had limited storage space beneath his own theatre, the practice space. Angier wanted the machine stored 'in [his] theatre, with the prestige materials', which is a very creepy way to refer to your own dead clones. Also he says, as he's dying, something about sacrificing himself, which bale's character doesn't believe he has done/is capable of doing, and tells bale to look around, that he doesn't see where he is, if he doesn't believe Angier is sacrificing anything. Which, again, isn't a scene that seems narrated by either of the magicians, and bale's character, which would be the only conceivable character who could be narrating the scene, has no reason to put anything about the duplicates in...

I think, anyway.
 
 
Not in the Face
12:00 / 28.11.06
Also, I thought (at the end of the movie, not when the sponsor was saying it) that the fixed run of shows was because Angier had limited storage space beneath his own theatre, the practice space.

I would agree with this. I thought it was pretty clear that Angier was cloning himself and that when he first did it, the 'clone' is so surprised at being created that the 'original' is able to get the drop on him. As to why 100 sessions? Perhaps that was as much as Angier thought he could stand. His final speech (or perhaps the one to Cutter?) was about being terrified that the clone which would appear on the balcony would no longer be him - that it would decide not to kill itself and to carry on living. 100 ius also a good round number and a number that Angier knew would tempt Borden - he had to have a long enough run
for Borden to come and see the show, be amazed, try and figure it out, decide to ignore it and then give in and come back to sneak around the set.

In this respect both Nolan and Angier were the same - the Borden brothers must have been afraid constantly that the other would break and reveal all to the woman (+ child) they loved and so ruin the trick and make all the previous sacrifice worthless. Similarly Angier was afraid that a single clone would undo all the times he killed himself.

As to the twists in the tale I saw them both coming a while before the reveal but not too long but it didn't matter - I appreciated that the film had been set up in that way but at the end of the day it was a film and not a magic trick and it would be impossible to maintain the former as if it were entirely about the trick - the point to me was about the two men and the structure of the film was a way of carrying through the theme to enhance the enjoyment of the movie.

As to the machine's abilities, Tesla admits that he created a machine for Borden but not the same machine that Angier wants. The preshadowing of the hats I think was there to insert the idea, a hook to bring the audience along - why did it matter?

For me the puzzle at the end was the role of Cutter and his reliability as narrator - he hired Borden and he tells Angier at the start that Borden is the better magician. He knew the answer to the original Transported Man and at the end he walks past Borden as himself, not dressed as Fallon, on his way to kill Angier and is then able to go to Borden's room and look after the daughter. And yet he was also the main witness against Borden in the trial, seemed convinced of the his guilt, took a bullet and buried 'Fallon' alive

It all raised in my mind a lot of questions about his role in the proceedings that weren't answered.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:09 / 28.11.06
On reflection, I guess it's pretty clear that Tesla's second machine is an SF device that really works to clone people.

I was just expecting a final twist, and the peculiar stresses in the last shots supported this impression ~ that there'd be a last-moment reversal.

I find the argument that Tesla's machine could have been a conjuring trick pretty interesting, but I guess the film does want us to accept that it wasn't a fake.
 
 
adamswish
20:06 / 28.11.06
Saw this on last night and loved every minute of it. Yes I guessed the two "prestiges" (Borden's before Angier's) but didn't find it ruined the ending.

Mainly because there's a bigger "prestige" to my mind. Actually two:

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1) at what point did Borden decide to live his act (my guess is after he saw the Chinaman's act).

and

2) did Cutter know all along about the "presitge" of Borden, only the two do pass infront of the old theatre and Cutter is entertaining his daughter at the start/end of the film (I have no guess for this as it's something my girlfriend brought up).

Oh and just to add my thoughts on the "Real Transported man" trick, the "real" Angier was killed at the staging of the act to the agent. And he limited it to 100 as he was worried about the decomposition of the copies (I likened it to using a photocopy and always copying from the copy when my girlfriend and I discussed it on the walk home from the cinema)
 
 
CameronStewart
20:28 / 28.11.06
>>>at what point did Borden decide to live his act (my guess is after he saw the Chinaman's act).<<<

I don't think so - I think that when we are introduced to the character, he and his brother have already long been working on their trick. If it was only seeing the Chinaman's act that gave Borden the idea, there would have been no reason to keep his brother a secret prior to it, and clearly none of the other characters were aware that the brother even existed. I think that Borden and brother have been living the secret for a very long time, probably starting soon after they left the orphanage.
 
 
Scrubb is on a downward spiral
07:27 / 29.11.06
I think that Borden and brother have been living the secret for a very long time, probably starting soon after they left the orphanage.
Seconded - there's some stuff early on about how both Angier and Borden come from mysterious backgrounds and very little is known about either of them prior to hitting the stage. This makes sense if Borden and brother have been planning using their twinhood in magic for some time and therefore need to keep the existance of the brother under wraps. Angier also talks about how he changed his name to prevent himself disgracing his (implied) aristocratic family.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
07:44 / 29.11.06
Oh and just to add my thoughts on the "Real Transported man" trick, the "real" Angier was killed at the staging of the act to the agent. And he limited it to 100 as he was worried about the decomposition of the copies (I likened it to using a photocopy and always copying from the copy when my girlfriend and I discussed it on the walk home from the cinema)

I wonder if that comes from what you/we know about actual cloning rather than the magical kind - that they don't tend to live long, develop faults and illnesses etc. and are generally less robust than the original?

It's an interesting idea but I'm not totally sold on it - mainly because even halfway into the act (say the 50th copy) we'd start to see the deterioration - if the compies degenerate, Angier would be acting like Root, effectively, slurring and swaying, by the time Borden catches him in the act of prestiging.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:59 / 29.11.06
On Cutter: the simplest explanation is that he takes Angier's side at first because he perceives him to be the wronged party, and blames Borden for the damage to his own career. However, when Angier reveals that he's faked his own death (or so it seems), Cutter thinks this is going too far, not just because it involves framing Borden, taking away his daughter and seeing him hang, but also, I think, because he's hurt that his friend would deceive him into thinking he was dead.

The fact that he doesn't seem surprised to see Borden enter the theatre as he leaves, however, complicates that, unless he's already gone and met up with Borden in between meeting Angier at his stately home and delivering the Tesla machine... Or unless Borden was in Fallon drag as he entered, but took it off inside. You're right, Cutter is an ambiguity in a film that is otherwise a lot less ambiguous than this thread would suggest...
 
 
CameronStewart
11:45 / 29.11.06
>>>Angier also talks about how he changed his name to prevent himself disgracing his (implied) aristocratic family.<<<

Lord Caldlow is Angier's real identity, which he returns to after framing Borden for his murder.
 
 
matthew.
13:24 / 29.11.06
Sorry, how do we know that the Lord is Angier's real identity?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:52 / 29.11.06
"Yes, I'm Caldlow. I always have been."
 
 
Dead Megatron
14:19 / 29.11.06
He could have used the machine only once, and then he and his copy could do the Transported Man just like Bale did it: whit a twin. No daily suicide required. In fact, he could have done the Duplicated Man if he wanted to, couldn't he?

Right, which would make the whole episode with Root, and the particular moral of that episode (that having a double walking around pretending to be you means you lose a lot of your power to that other person) COMPLETELY POINTLESS. Angier can't allow another person to occupy his identity, or have the reveal moment onstage instead of him. His solution is to kill the 'other' Angiers, or himself. In other words, he kind of splits himself, over and over and over again.


Sure, but I'm not talking about the moral of the scene, I'm talking about what the character was thinking. Because, if I could come up with that easier solution in five minutes, why couldn't he? I know it would defeat the purpose of the narrative, but it was, IMHO, a plot fault.

And it was not another person, it was him times two. They would both think exactly alike, so there would be very little dispute (even less than the Bale twins). They could alternate and everything. My point is, it would prevent the serial suicide he was commiting. A major plus, I reckon.
 
 
adamswish
14:46 / 29.11.06
Thanks to Cameron and Scrubb and my own look at the quite excellent film website (which contains several short clips that refreshed my memory, Tuesday had been a long day) I realised I was wrong.

Mainly because Borden mentions the "great magic act" near the start of the film. Backstage while Angier and he were plants for the other older magican.

Looking back this must of been the transported man trick he was talking about. And we kind of see it after he walks Sarah home from the other show where her nephew guessed the trick. I couldn't remember whether they had seen the chinese magic show before his "date" or not.

Oh and on a slight tangent the December issue of Fortean Times has a large piece on the life and times of Nikola Tesla as this year marks the 150th anniversary of his birth, did mean to mention it in the post up there...
 
 
CameronStewart
15:09 / 29.11.06
>>>Sorry, how do we know that the Lord is Angier's real identity?<<<

In addition to the quote Joe posted (which I truthfully don't specifically remember but I trust it's there), there's his comment about having to change his name to protect his family from embarrassment, the apparently inexhaustible funds he has to travel to America and pay Tesla to work on the machine for months (which, it's intimated, is hugely expensive), and the whopping great palace he's seen living in at the end, far too lavish for even the most successful stage performer.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:19 / 05.12.06
Just finished the book. It's so different! Actually I have to say that as a work of art it was less tidy and pleasing than I found the film (yeah I know - but I still liked it a lot) and I thought the cuts they made (Angier's family, the modern framing narrative, especially the modern instance of suspected bilocation which is totally forgotten about by the end of the book) were justified and actually streamlined the narrative a lot.

Does anyone know whether Priest had any input into the screenplay?
 
 
CameronStewart
13:58 / 06.12.06
I don't think he made any actual contribution to the screenplay, but I do remember reading that he read it and gave his approval.
 
 
PatrickMM
21:17 / 27.12.06
it's hard to believe that anyone could really pick up everything that's going on in just one viewing—especially since the Nolans make one of their big twists obvious on purpose, in order to throw the audience off the trail of the bigger ones to come.

That's from the Onion's top ten films list. Now, I've seen the film and I have no idea which twists they're referring to. I saw one twist in the story, the fact that Christian Bale had a twin brother. So, is the 'bigger one' the fact that the Tesla chamber made clones, because that seemed to be presented fairly explicitly. What are they talking about?
 
 
CameronStewart
21:57 / 27.12.06
The dvd's out on February 20th. Hopefully there will be a commentary by Nolan that will shed some light...
 
 
Thorn Davis
08:42 / 05.01.07
I can't wait to see it again on DVD either. Meanwhile, something just occurred to me. If the machine is working (and I still don't believe it really does clone folk), then why doesn't a clone pop out on the balcony on the night Angiers supposedly drowns, and thereby ruin the big stitch-up?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:01 / 05.01.07
Jesus Christ.

A clone/original does pop out, obviously not where anyone can see*, every night that Angier does the trick. A clone/original does pop out the night he supposedly drowns, because a clone/original ACTUALLY drowns as well. Hence the dead body. Hence Borden is convicted of his murder. Hence Angier can still be alive even though he's also dead on a slab.
 
 
Thorn Davis
09:21 / 05.01.07
A clone/original does pop out, obviously not where anyone can see*, every night that Angier does the trick. A clone/original does pop out the night he supposedly drowns, because a clone/original ACTUALLY drowns as well.

Right. So why isn't there a theatre full of people testifying that they saw Angiers alive and well on the balcony? Why isn't the clone doing the big reveal that night? Why is it that on that one night, the one where Borden happens to be backstage watching the drowning the balcony is empty?
 
  

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