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The Prestige

 
  

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Alex's Grandma
20:20 / 17.11.06
It's not as if Nolan doesn't go to great pains to make it blindingly obvious to anyone actually watching the film that Borden and Fallon are twins swapping places with one another, short of actually coming out with one of them wearing a sign saying DO YOU SEE? and the other wearing a sign saying WE ARE BROTHERS!

Well yes, but then what's the point of the reveal? It seemed to me, what is your mortal Barbe-enemy, Hellbunny, that if Nolan had got this out of the way a bit earlier on he'd have had more time to focus on the (it seems to me anyway) more interesting stuff to do with a)whether the teleportation machine actually works (I may need to watch the movie again, and it won't be a chore, but I still think this is ambiguous, hence my worries about Tesla's reputation; and if it does, it seems like a slightly clunky, 'deus ex machina' device) and b) what Angier was attempting to do when he went to the trouble of dragging the machine off to Bourdin's execution.

To be honest, it seemed a bit fluffed
 
 
CameronStewart
20:52 / 17.11.06
>>>)whether the teleportation machine actually works (I may need to watch the movie again, and it won't be a chore, but I still think this is ambiguous<<<

Remember the part when Angier tests the machine for the first time, and lays the pistol out so that he can kill himself if it goes wrong and he's deformed or something, and then after turning the machine on he's shocked to see a perfect duplicate of himself, whom he then shoots (or who shoots him, depending on your point of view)? How is that ambiguous?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
21:42 / 17.11.06
Thanks Cam, I was about to say that.

Of COURSE the teleportation machine is deus ex machina, that is the whole point. Angier can not duplicate the Transported Man for the same reason he couldn't conceive of the idea that the old Chinese man wasn't really weak and hobbled. Angier didn't have the chops to sacrifice any part of himself for his trade, so he threw money at the problem in order to cheat his way to a similar result.

Look at his unwillingness to kill birds in his act. Sure, by modern standards thats a horrific idea, but at the time that was part of the sacrifice the stage magicians made for their art.

The film boiled down to a true magician and his rival who had to use shortcuts to achieve the same results. In the end their rivalry destroyed both of them, one of them was actually killed and the other could never perform again, his public persona having been executed.
 
 
Corey Waits
06:35 / 19.11.06
Well, call me an idiot but I didn't see the Fallon/Borden thing coming at all. So yeah, I loved the movie, thought it was amazing, and was more than happy to suspend disbelief and give myself over to the film for 2 hours.

I can imagine how disappointed you might be if you went into the film wanting to "figure it all out" as soon as possible, but if that's the case, then I recommend putting your semiotics-studies on the back-burner until after the film ;)

Movies are about fun, not proving how smart you are... Maybe that was another of this film's subtexts...
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:07 / 19.11.06
I don't think it's so much that people want to figure it out - like the audience at a magic show, they want to be amazed and mystified - it's just that if the film is heavily trailed as having a twist, and all the reviews are necessarily cagey about it because there is a twist, you can't help but be aware as you watch that there is a twist and thus be more sensitive to what that twist could be.

I guess that what most people who spotted the Borden/Fallon and the double-drowning things ahead of time had a problem with was that they weren't amazed and mystified enough (or for long enough): that the film, while very entertaining and clever, wasn't clever enough to keep them guessing prior to the two big reveals.
 
 
Corey Waits
20:54 / 19.11.06
it's just that if the film is heavily trailed as having a twist, and all the reviews are necessarily cagey about it because there is a twist

That's why I always try and avoid reviews for movies that I want to see, that way I go in without any expectations at all.

Too many times I've read a review, gone to see a movie and then come out of it agreeing completely with the review. But if I hadn't read/watched the review, what would my own point-of-view be?
 
 
Thorn Davis
08:04 / 20.11.06
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Remember the part when Angier tests the machine for the first time, and lays the pistol out so that he can kill himself if it goes wrong and he's deformed or something, and then after turning the machine on he's shocked to see a perfect duplicate of himself, whom he then shoots (or who shoots him, depending on your point of view)? How is that ambiguous?

It's a bit ambiguous because it's Angiers narrating it to his arch enemy, and they're both unreliable narrators and one of the devices the film uses is to have them narrate their stories to each and then reveal that they're stringing each other along, it's not unreasonable to be suspicious of what Angiers tells Borden in that final scene. It's not conclusive evidence that the machine doesn't work, but it does lend that note of ambiguity.

I actually came out of the cinema 100% confident that the machine was a dud for a few reasons. For one thing when Angiers gets shot he says "Ugh. Twins," as though it's the only explanation. He knows Borden knows about Tesla, so why isn't his reaction "Oh - you cloned yourself too, eh?" What's more his dying words are complaining that the world is solid, miserable and explainable, which doesn't fit with someone who's just discovered real magic. Furthermore, the closing monologue seemed to invite the audience to not accept the resolution of the film at face value - it seemed to me to explicitly state that a trick had taken place and what the audience had been told isn't really what happened.

I strongly believe that Angiers was taken for a ride - like a theatre audience he was begging, begging, to be duped by Tesla. He's totally complicit in his own deception, just like the audience. The way it's set up that he has to plead to get the machine, they make it a bit difficult - just enough to convince him it's worth having, and to keep fleecing him for money until they give him a machine that's all flashing lights and no substance. He returns to England, livid mad at Borden for pulling a big scale pladeg/turn/prestige on him and sets out to trap him with his new transported man trick, which I assumed involved Root again.

It just seems too much of a leap that the company Borden sends Angiers to just so happens to actually be capable of real magic. Borden knows the Tesla coils are just zappy fun lights - he's got one of his own - and he uses that to misdirect Angiers into wasting years and thousands of pounds. Plus, right up until that moment the film has occupied the same physical universe as we do - bringing in real magic at the end is just like... it screams to me that the director's using film to recreate that sense of "how the hell did they do that???" that magicians created at the turn of the century where you think you've seen something impossible, but actually there's a mundane explanation for it.

But that's just my take on it.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:42 / 20.11.06
The Angier shooting a clone scene ISN'T actually told by Angier to Borden.

Angier's notebook, iirc, ends with something along the lines of "And then I turned the machine on, but I am not going to tell you what happened, neener neener"

If Root was the one who was drowned, did Angier just drop him into a tank of water every night for a laugh, somehow knowing which night Borden was going to be there for the frame up?
 
 
Thorn Davis
16:09 / 20.11.06
[QUOTE]The Angier shooting a clone scene ISN'T actually told by Angier to Borden[/QUOTE]

Yes it is - not in the diary, but verbally, right after Borden shoots him.

As for the dropping Root into the water - no I think Root was the one who appeared on the balcony every night doing the "Ta-daa!" moment, as that was all he was really capable of. I think Angiers went into the tank every night and just - you know - got out if Borden wasn't there. We know it's part of his act - it's mentioned twice. I think it was Angiers that Borden watched 'drown', but I don't think he died. We see him practicing holding his breath under water after his wife dies - and Borden did get him out the water tank. We don't see that but Borden says "I dragged you out that tank..." when Angiers visits him in jail. So I think Angiers went into the tank but didn't die, and escaped from the coffin or the morgue (he keeps repeating a line about being the man that gets out the box) and the reason you see the one dead body in the tank at the end is because he silenced Root.

That's my theory - I'm not 100% on that, and I reckon there's a shot or a line in the film that might anchor and explain it all some over way, but which won't be obvious until you watch the whole thing on slow motion on DVD or something. But the one single thing I'm sure of is that they didn't clone anyone with zappy Tesla magic electricity. Like when David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear, i couldn't quite put my finger on how he did it, but I was 100% certain that it didn't just vanish and reappear.
 
 
nighthawk
16:19 / 20.11.06
I strongly believe that Angiers was taken for a ride - like a theatre audience he was begging, begging, to be duped by Tesla. He's totally complicit in his own deception, just like the audience. The way it's set up that he has to plead to get the machine, they make it a bit difficult - just enough to convince him it's worth having, and to keep fleecing him for money until they give him a machine that's all flashing lights and no substance. He returns to England, livid mad at Borden for pulling a big scale pladeg/turn/prestige on him and sets out to trap him with his new transported man trick, which I assumed involved Root again.

See, that's exactly where I thought Nolan was headed, which was why I felt cheated by the 'real magic' ending. But I don't think this reading's supported by the film itself - there's too much to explain away, from the positive i.d. of the corpse to the covered tanks and the closing shot. I'll definetely be watching it on dvd to see if I can persaude myself otherwise though; because, for me, this would be a much more successful end to the film.
 
 
PatrickMM
17:26 / 20.11.06
If he wanted to get out of the tank, it makes no sense why he'd have a lock on it, or enough water to go over his head in the first place. I didn't see the film's trailer or read many reviews, but the fact that the film starts by Michael Caine telling you "Watch Closely! We're doing a twist ending here people!" forced me out of my usual viewing habit into looking for a trick mode, and I saw the Fallon/Borden thing pretty early. I was waiting for the actual twist to happen, since the actual teleportation/cloning thing just seemed to come out of nowhere, though it does fit thematically.

I thought it was a good looking, entertaining movie, but Nolan was too fixated on gimmicky stuff rather than really engaging with emotions. If you're going to make this obsession with twists and tricks in the movie, you better have a really great trick, not just confirmation of what I figured had happened. Plus, I feel like the emotional core of the film could have been the troubles that Fallon/Borden had in sharing their identity, so maybe revealing the twist earlier would have allowed him to delve into their troubles in the present rather than just in a sum up at the film's end.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:46 / 20.11.06
The film boiled down to a true magician and his rival who had to use shortcuts to achieve the same results

Well according to that analysis, who was the true magician? Seeing as whichever way you cut it, Angiers and Bordin were both relying on special effects to a greater or lesser extent, do you mean Tesla? Or do you mean the Michael Caine character who, as the narrator for a lot of it, has to be considered a bit suspect, I think. What was going on in the Bourdin execution scene (what was Caine's character up to when he appeared to almost swap identities with Fallon, for example?!!)

Really, I don't suppose there are any answers.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:42 / 21.11.06
...what's the point of the reveal? It seemed to me, what is your mortal Barbe-enemy, Hellbunny, that if Nolan had got this out of the way a bit earlier on he'd have had more time to focus on the (it seems to me anyway) more interesting stuff to do with a)whether the teleportation machine actually works (I may need to watch the movie again, and it won't be a chore, but I still think this is ambiguous, hence my worries about Tesla's reputation; and if it does, it seems like a slightly clunky, 'deus ex machina' device) and b) what Angier was attempting to do when he went to the trouble of dragging the machine off to Bordin's execution.

But I heart you! How can you be my mortal Barbe-enemy if I heart you?! I never hearted Flux, you know. And you wouldn't make me snippy if you weren't so mean to goths, pulling their hair and kicking their shins and so forth.

In deference to Cameron, who is usually wrong about movies (especially ones with 'twists') but who is a very nice man*, I will allow for the possibility that, despite Nolan's form for tightly controlled swerving narrative, he completely ballsed up the reveal for the Fallon/Borden arc and intended it to be a twist ending all along, thereby making the fillum well clunky.

*I have been practicing my 'fake patronising' tone in online correspondence of this nature. Do you like it?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
11:12 / 21.11.06
It's a bit ambiguous because it's Angiers narrating it to his arch enemy, and they're both unreliable narrators and one of the devices the film uses is to have them narrate their stories to each and then reveal that they're stringing each other along, it's not unreasonable to be suspicious of what Angiers tells Borden in that final scene. It's not conclusive evidence that the machine doesn't work, but it does lend that note of ambiguity.

Thorn, you explain and express my reasoning far more clearly than I ever could. Will you accompany me to my next job interview?

I'm glad other people are leaning toward the "not real magic" ending - I do think it's a bit of a cop-out, in a film about illusion, for the illusion to be that the illusion is an illusion, when it's actually real. If you see what I mean.

I'm still not sure about the drowning thing though. But the only way I can resolve the many-doubles-drowned or one-double-drowned issue to my own satisfaction is by watching the final frame of the film again, very closely. If there's loads of tanks stretching off into the distance, which was what some people saw, I will have to reluctantly accept that the Tesla machine worked.
 
 
Blake Head
09:08 / 24.11.06
FILM _AND_ BOOK

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I had been meaning to read Christopher Priest for a while after hearing about him as an especially good literary fantasy/mystery writer, and last week I came across a copy of The Prestige on my mantelpiece of unread books, and I thought, with the film coming out and that: that’ll do. And it’s a wonderful, exemplary book (I haven’t read Carter Beats the Devil, but from the sound of it neither the film nor the book of The Prestige is anything like it in terms of narrative or tone.) So, much of my reaction to the film, which I was initially very excited about, was in relation to Priest’s novel, which is very different. But for one thing this thread is for the film, and for another Nolan is well within his rights to, and clearly does, construct his own take on the work, and so I don’t want to appear to review it on the basis that the film version is in any sense “wrong” in its direction. With that caveat in mind, I’ll attempt to write down some thoughts on crucial differences between the two and keep it to specifically how that impacts on the film.

mkt made the following comment:

I've read a few criticisms of the film that mention the obviousness of the ending, and I'm baffled. The film is called "The Prestige". My understanding was that the whole film was about expectation, showmanship and willingly being taken in - of course you know where it's going, but you willingly suspend disbelief and enjoy the performance.

I disagree. The film explores the idea that performance magic is tied to suspension of belief, you know it’s a trick, but crucially you don’t know how it’s done, which is premised on the idea that secrets have a degree of power. What Nolan does with the film is dramatise the conflict between the power gained by holding secrets and the cost of deceiving people, and while I’m not entirely clear what the film’s conclusion leaves us with as a message, I suspect that other values are largely being prioritised: Borden’s child is shown as being a real-life concern more important than the squabbles of stage performers or their secrets, and for that matter the wonder left in the minds of the audience. My problem with this in terms of cinematic technique is that I agree with those above that I think there are meant to be a series of “big reveals” in the closing minutes, so the “obviousness of the ending” makes the film appear more clumsy than profound if the intended effect is trickery. And then, if we’re going to accept the conceit that The Prestige as a film is a kind of magic trick where we are astounded at how the narrative does what it does, both the film and the characters are let down by a conclusion that takes you backstage and empties the secrets of their worth as secrets. And normally I don’t think that would bother me much, but in a film based on ideas of bilocation, misdirection, unreliable narration and irresolvable mysteries, such a laborious walkthrough of each stage of the trick isn’t just disappointing but neglectful of both the basic thematic and original source materials.

Comparatively, the novel highlights several less static answers to the “puzzle” of (primarily) Borden’s identity without a definite conclusion being reached; the reader is constantly told here is where I show you that I have nothing to hide, here is where I show you the impossible, now be amazed that I have tricked you. The three stages in the structure of a trick even incorporate the narrative voice:

Let me first then consider and describe the method of writing this account. The very act of describing my secrets might indeed be construed as a betrayal of myself, except of course that I am an illusionist I can make sure you only see what I wish you to see. A puzzle is implicitly involved.

The act of telling the truth, of revealing secrets, is itself reduced to being another and perhaps a primary method for preserving secrecy. Which is a way of saying that I don’t think there was the necessity for the film to reveal its own construction so earnestly, where presumably the “cost” of not doing so was the intelligibility of the film to certain audience members. The repetition throughout the film that Borden must be using a double doesn’t need to be taken at face value, it’s a belief of Cutter’s, this could have been shown as an act of misdirection on the part of the director, or undercut by another possibility, but we’re basically given it by the conclusion as reality. The shift of emphasis from a trick where there’s doubt as to how it is done, to a trick that is seen through and it is slowly revealed how it is done, confirms a definite move away from the novel, which would be fine but that the change limits the possibilities of the film in favour of simpler and less interesting answers.

The double theft of journals in the film adapts the literary structure of the novel’s main narrative to its own ends (though entirely dispenses with the modern day setting that acts as a framing device to the entire novel) but misses the subtlety of their employment. The cinematic journals puzzle, antagonise and misdirect, but they misdirect in a direct way, they contain lies and half-truths, they miss, if we choose to see every act as a magical act, the practice of showing the audience that the magician’s hands are empty. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But the strength of the novel lies in the characters’ being partially “seen” even when they employ misdirection to obscure themselves, each character offers a perspective on the other that they themselves can’t see, while the film uses the journals only in the act of them hurting one another; the actual act of deception, convincing the other the journals are genuine, is so minimal as to rob the “trick” of any glamour and reduce it to two men playing manipulative private games.

The conceit of each magician reading the (artificial, manipulative) journal of the other dramatically changes the nature of their relationships. The tragedy of their literary relationship is of the misunderstandings that lie between them, and also their similarities. Rather than the highly visible differences in class and attitude portrayed in the film, the novel, while giving each character a unique back-story, essentially presents their feud originating in two individuals who broadly occupy the same world, and whose differences are in matters of stagecraft, technique, creativity (Borden sees Angier at first as exploitative, Angier perceives Borden’s act to be crude) but both gentlemen wear top hats – so to speak. It’s not just that the film follows the common feature film tendency for less subtle characterisation and avoidance of minimal difference, it’s that something essential about the nature, the bonds of their obsessive concentration on the other is lost when they are presented with every opportunity (on my viewing) as being opposites. I think it’s a damning enough to say that a film so visually concerned with doubling seemed to have so little to say about the psychological doubling between its two main characters.

Another thing, and possibly tied to “the cost of deceiving people” is Nolan introducing the theme that to succeed you have to make sacrifices, you have to get your hands dirty, and to a degree I think it’s this idea of “cost” that replaces mystery or doubt as the other main theme in the film. And I actually found that quite interesting, there’s a judgement being made, I think, about the importance of a real world that demands sacrifices, and how it intersects with a performative world where loss is always temporal.

I think what I found most shocking about the film in relation to the book was the violence. It was a twelve certificate I think, but the violence, both physically and in the character’s interpersonal actions towards one another, was extremely effective; I’ve watched cinematic violence far more extreme that didn’t make me wince so much as when Anger fell through the trapdoor onto the floor. Which I think is a good thing, generally, in that violence and unpleasantness shouldn’t be treated lightly, but it was hard-going in a film which, especially between the two performers, displayed an immense cruelty and a very personal animosity which rested uneasily with and I think overshadowed the professional rivalry.

To compare this to the novel, where there is one serious interaction between the two that has serious physical consequences for someone, numerous instances of performance sabotage, and one attempted murder, the film has (correct me if I’m wrong) manslaughter, attempted murder and mutilation, self-mutilation, bird killing, finger breaking, kidnap, burying someone alive, a shooting (of Cutter – injury), several instances of sabotage, Angier getting his leg injured, a shooting (Angier’s first clone – murder), Multiple drownings, another kidnap, a hanging (murder), a shooting (murder)… It’s a horrible film. Without even going near the tortured personal relationships. Which by comparison makes the book, to my mind, seem even more elegant for conjuring such emotional resonance without resorting to such extremes. One thing the film certainly concentrates far less on is the practice of legerdemain, so though it’s referred to, the act of leaving Borden’s hand a ruin made me jump precisely because of the repeated emphasis the novel placed on how prized a magician’s skill with his hands is, in the context of his profession it’s a devastating injury. The novel is full of unhappiness and personal confusion but it’s modified by the rivals desire to find out more about one another, to understand how the other works, whereas the film seemed imbalanced in trying to combine a professional obsession and difference of methodology with a personal desire to inflict not just embarrassment but pain and destruction upon the other.

Just to go back to the attempted murder in the novel for a sec, in which Angier attempts, after one further near lethal intervention in his act by Borden, to finally just wring the mystery of how Borden performs his trick out of him and then resolve their feud completely, and he isn’t able to do either. And that’s the crux of the novel for me, the characters can’t end their relationship, and they’ve come to a point where that relationship has near-eliminated anything else they might have. Borden is unable to explain his own mysterious identity, while Angier is repulsed by his violence, and at various points they are both repulsed, by the thought of their hatred driving them to violence over as essentially petty rivalry. And they’re both culpable, and ultimately deeply sympathetic characters, whose tragedy is their misunderstanding of both themselves and each other. And that doesn’t exist in the film. There is a humourlessness behind the momentum of each character’s very personal hatred of the other. The escalation of their feud makes narrative sense, as each act of revenge further fuels the growing hatred, but the obsession does not correspondingly increase in its interest to the viewer, it’s missing something, there was no mystery to their relationship that I could perceive, no sense that would worry at each other continually for understanding, only that they would eventually and inevitably hurt one another again.

Borden’s obsessive need is partially checked by his family, and he at the last appears complicit, chastised, but certainly owed more sympathy than the monstrous Borden. That said, Borden’s literal half-victory felt shoddy to me, achieved, as it was, without Borden (Borden in prison anyway) actually doing anything. I was expecting by this point some last minute escape from the hangman’s noose, but I don’t think that the ending could be read that way. Borden (Borden the free man) is damaged by the death of his twin and the threat of the loss (to Angier) of the daughter, but combats that threat not by trickery, but by the intervention of Angier’s assistant (giving Caine a character journey of some degree) and by directly ending the life of Angier and thus the feud.

Other differences:

Caine has a larger role than the ingenieur of the book, and while that’s understandable for an actor of his stature, and there’s little to actively criticise in the three lead roles, his enlarged presence detracts, I think, from the intensity of the obsessive dynamic between the two rival performers, and I didn’t personally feel the “charge” (sorry) between Jackman and Bale was strong enough to capture the attention of an audience primed to examine the plot for tricks. Furthermore, the addition of a technically minded character who seemed to be the primary instigator of many of Angier’s tricks, rather than as simply a trusted craftsman, while giving Caine something to do, undermines the role of Angier as a magician capable of his own unique creativity and identity, which again moves away from the novels leapfrogging contest of two approximately equal magicians with different styles and different attitudes to commitment, and present the audience with more of a sense of a “real” and a “fake” magician, with the fake magician only holding his own through showmanship and the props of others. More generally, the greater emphasis on the “engineering” of magic tricks shown in the film downplays the mental and physical dexterity the magicians of the novel display, and allows far greater range for the idea that showmanship + technology = magic, which I think is reductive.

It’s a very minor point but I think it’s maybe a little telling on the emphasis in modern cinema placed on the plot, there are additions to the film like the blind stagehands which don’t jar exactly, but they do little for the film other than convey a generalised creepiness and explain for the nitpickers why there wasn’t a fuss about drowning doubles under the floorboards after each performance.

The comment about “real magic” in the film (in the sense used by Thorn Davis above) really nagged at me though. At the danger of prolonging this into a rant about the film being just “not as good” as the book, in my head I can’t see either magician saying this. The system of values that operates, believably, in the novel, is that the magicians of the age didn’t see art of deception as being in any way inferior to that of more miraculous means, and that they were not comparable except in the sense that the craft of the former was in creating the appearance of the latter without actually embodying it. The point of The Prestige isn’t about the further ramifications or reliability of the Tesla machine (Possibilities that, rather creepily, Angier pre-meditatively “closes down” with every copy made), it’s about what motivates its use, and even more so the relationship between the two different “magic” practitioners.

Things I liked: I thought Bowie’s understated Tesla was excellent. The electrical effects were not only stunning but highly effective as threatening, uncanny forces. I liked that in the first use of Borden’s Transported man they show how the trick functions but that they don’t present two (undisguised) Bales on screen at the same time. It was that sort of clever open-endedness I’d expected from the director of Memento to come up with. That was an excellent review above Hellbunny, and I agree about the weirdness and dread of the “prestige materials”, although again Priest deals with this somewhat differently.

Apologies for the long post. But I do have a question about the film also – what are the opening, somewhat muffled words, which are repeated later near the end? I think it’s Bale speaking but I couldn’t make it out.
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:50 / 24.11.06
The funny thing about Tesla Machine is that it created a (quantum?) duplicate of the hat/magician/cat in it, and such duplicate comes into existence (or is brought from a paralel universe) a few metters away from the Machine.

So, the first time jackman uses the Machine, he kills his copy. BUT, in the show is the jackman that appears a few metters away (the copy) the one who survives, while the one in the Machine (the original) gets killed. Which means the guy was commiting a suicide per show.

Which was quite stupid. He could have used the machine only once, and then he and his copy could do the Transported Man just like Bale did it: whit a twin. No daily suicide required. In fact, he could have done the Duplicated Man if he wanted to, couldn't he?

Honestly, the guy was not very smart...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
10:34 / 24.11.06
He could have used the machine only once, and then he and his copy could do the Transported Man just like Bale did it: whit a twin. No daily suicide required. In fact, he could have done the Duplicated Man if he wanted to, couldn't he?

Right, which would make the whole episode with Root, and the particular moral of that episode (that having a double walking around pretending to be you means you lose a lot of your power to that other person) COMPLETELY POINTLESS. Angier can't allow another person to occupy his identity, or have the reveal moment onstage instead of him. His solution is to kill the 'other' Angiers, or himself. In other words, he kind of splits himself, over and over and over again.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
11:36 / 24.11.06
But if the other person had been Angier, he would have had the same drives and desires and understood the absolute need to keep the secret.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:37 / 24.11.06
>>>In deference to Cameron, who is usually wrong about movies (especially ones with 'twists')<<<

Uh, excuse me? Examples of where I'm "wrong" please?
 
 
X-Himy
17:30 / 24.11.06
At some point, Angier's desire to destroy Borden overcomes all that. He commits suicide daily merely as a way to frame Borden when he inevitably shows up. Angier knows that Borden cannot resist not only coming to the show but needing to know the trick.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:39 / 24.11.06
I'm a little irritated at the tone of some posts on this thread, which suggest that someone must be stupid or never have seen a film before if they didn't clock Borden as Fallon. I have done my fair share of film studies, but I also watch films to be fooled, and though I had some idea there'd be a twist, I wasn't on the look-out especially for disguises or twins, and I didn't see that double coming. I don't think that makes me stupid ~ any more than an audience member who fails to suss out a magic trick is stupid. The point is sometimes (usually?) to be pleasurably fooled.

Anyway... I also tend to the reading that the Tesla machine was a hoax. For magic (magical pseudo-science, which is the same thing) to really work in this otherwise-accurate historical context seems such a leap. You might as well have Angiers possess rapid-healing powers, an adamantium skeleton and blades snikking out of his knuckles. It's the leap, to put it neatly, from Batman to Superman. We are in the world of Batman here ~ Michael Caine fixing gadgets and contraptions to Christian Bale's back and sleeves to give the illusion of demonic, uncanny power. For the Tesla machine to really teleport people is like Earth's sun giving a man the powers of flight and super-strength.

So, for that reason I can't help resisting that explanation. And I think within the film, the final voiceover and final shots seem to suggest a final twist of some sort, even if it's ambiguous. That there are top hats on the grass and a drowned man in a case (I didn't see the other glass cases, which may change things) doesn't tell us anything new. The strewn top hats are surely stressed as a clue to the real truth, as they also appear with Caine's voiceover at the start of the film.

I can't help thinking, as Thorn did: why should we assume Tesla DUPLICATED top hats through science-magic, when he could BUY twenty top-hats in the next village? Why would we see two black cats, and assume the least likely explanation ~ that one is a clone of the other? Why, especially after we've already seen two episodes with men who happen to look like each other but aren't clones, should we choose this gullible route, the one that ignores the laws of physics in favour of fantasy? We accept that two men can look identical ~ we accept that two other men can also look identical ~ but we see two similar cats and believe this is evidence of magic?
 
 
matthew.
17:50 / 24.11.06
I agree completely with your thoughts concerning the tone of posts, miss w. I had an idea that Fallon was up to something, but I let it pass. Then, I was delighted that he turned out to be a twin. Delighted. It made me enjoy the film a lot. (And this is coming from the person who saw the ending of The Usual Suspects a mile away)
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:27 / 24.11.06
Yes, I mean this sort of thing:

Absolutely. It's not as if Nolan doesn't go to great pains to make it blindingly obvious to anyone actually watching the film that Borden and Fallon are twins swapping places with one another, short of actually coming out with one of them wearing a sign saying DO YOU SEE? and the other wearing a sign saying WE ARE BROTHERS! The key is simply watching closely and having the vocabulary to decode what you're seeing, something we've only really had for the last twenty or thirty years as a collective audience.

In my opinion, part of being a sophisticated cinema viewer is about going along with the process of being fooled, rather than approaching a film as (apparently) some kind of competition with the director, reviewers and people with whom you discuss the film. This thread has demonstrated, I think, that some intelligent viewers didn't find the Borden/Fallon device blindingly obvious. The notion that those who didn't lack the vocabulary to decode cinema, or didn't watch "closely", is borderline insulting I think. I understand that to some, a film ~ particularly a film known to have a twist ~ may seem a puzzle that you're determined to solve. But attitudes like the above seem really quite aggressive and contemptuous of anyone who doesn't share them.
 
 
PatrickMM
19:32 / 24.11.06
I wasn't on the look-out especially for disguises or twins, and I didn't see that double coming. I don't think that makes me stupid ~ any more than an audience member who fails to suss out a magic trick is stupid. The point is sometimes (usually?) to be pleasurably fooled.

Exactly, but the film refuses to allow you to view it from this perspective. Michael Caine's monologue at the beginning of the film tells you to "watch closely," setting up a specific viewing mode. I never see twists coming because usually I'm watching the film from moment to moment, however, that voiceover forced me to view it from a different perspective.

It's the same thing with M. Night Shyamalan's stuff, a twist works much better if you don't know it's coming. But, because of his reputation, people viewed his later works from a detective perspective, trying to find the hidden stuff that will reveal the ending.

Why, especially after we've already seen two episodes with men who happen to look like each other but aren't clones, should we choose this gullible route, the one that ignores the laws of physics in favour of fantasy?

Isn't there a scene where Angier shoots his clone? Also, I'm almost positive the last shot had a whole bunch of tanks in it, indicating there's multiple clones. You could view it as a big twist, but there's not much in the film to support that. Common sense may say cloning is ridiculous, but in the film's logic, it's what makes the most sense.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:56 / 24.11.06
Exactly, but the film refuses to allow you to view it from this perspective. Michael Caine's monologue at the beginning of the film tells you to "watch closely," setting up a specific viewing mode. I never see twists coming because usually I'm watching the film from moment to moment, however, that voiceover forced me to view it from a different perspective.

Well, I see what you mean, but Michael Caine's comforting tones don't "force" me to do anything or "refuse" to let me do anything else! I found his voiceover reassuring, as in "now we're going to see a trick... sit back and enjoy it".

You understand what I mean, I hope. A conjuror will often tell you to watch closely. That's part of the showmanship. It's also part of the whole pleasurable game for trickster and victim that though he tells you to watch what he's doing, you still don't see it.. Obviously, some people did see it in this case, but to me, a magician saying "follow the cups very carefully" is just part of the spiel. It encourages me to sit back and relax into the process of being entertained and fooled, and places me in the hands of someone who's going to masterfully manipulate me.

Cutter/Caine's whole point is that we want to be fooled. To relax into that mood is, to me, getting entirely into the whole theme and concept of the film. To study it like a rival magician is, I accept, a valid alternative way of reading the film. I certainly don't think it forced one approach, though.



Isn't there a scene where Angier shoots his clone?


I think it's been argued above that this scene is shown from Angier's perspective, and narrated by him. Neither of the magicians are exactly reliable narrators, especially when talking to each other.

Again, I take your point. We are apparently shown the uncanny.


Also, I'm almost positive the last shot had a whole bunch of tanks in it, indicating there's multiple clones.


Well, I missed that, others apparently didn't. It seems more peculiar to me to imagine that Angier had 100 watertanks stored somewhere undetected, each with a magic clone of himself in them, than that he used his double and on one occasion drowned him. Maybe that's a bit boring of me. I guess a shot of multiple tanks, each with a dead clone inside, does settle it towards the uncanny "magic" explanation, but funnily enough I find that less satisfying.


You could view it as a big twist, but there's not much in the film to support that. Common sense may say cloning is ridiculous, but in the film's logic, it's what makes the most sense


Other theories have been advanced, but I accept that if the last shot shows lots of tanks with Angiers clones, that's what we're meant to conclude. Unless there's any get-out that this is someone else's speculative vision.

However, the top hats were returned to several times, and visually stressed, (to me) as though there was something more to that shot. I felt their combination with Cutter's voiceover suggested that we're meant to think twice about those hats. And really, in a film about illusion, conjuring and gimmicks, with the simplest explanation being the most likely, it seems bizarre to see 20 hats and think "he must have magically cloned 20 hats".
 
 
PatrickMM
21:20 / 24.11.06
Well, I missed that, others apparently didn't. It seems more peculiar to me to imagine that Angier had 100 watertanks stored somewhere undetected, each with a magic clone of himself in them, than that he used his double and on one occasion drowned him. Maybe that's a bit boring of me. I guess a shot of multiple tanks, each with a dead clone inside, does settle it towards the uncanny "magic" explanation, but funnily enough I find that less satisfying.


I would agree that it's less satisfying. I found the whole cloning thing out of nowhere as well, and I wish there was a better explanation. However, the fact that there's a lock on the tank indicates that it's not a double, it's designed to kill him.

And I see your whole point about the Michael Caine speech, I think a large part of the film is about the fact that Angier refuses to respect what Bordan does, he desperately wants to figure it out and outdo him. However, if you're going to tell the audience to "watch closely," your trick should have a less apparent resolution than the twins thing, and the no twist, he's a clone resolution for Angier.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:43 / 24.11.06
And here we can agree, from our different perspectives ~ I also felt dissatisfied somehow. The twins twist is OK, though kind of unremarkable... the acceptance of a science fiction "magic" concept into a world of conjuring isn't really a twist, but a stretch.
 
 
matthew.
21:45 / 24.11.06
I'm confused here. Is there another theory that says the tanks weren't filled with clones? That the hats were simlpy bought? Those people who put forth that theory, have they read the novel? (The clones are called Prestiges, actually)
 
 
miss wonderstarr
23:58 / 24.11.06
(The clones are called Prestiges, actually)

I don't like the sound of that... it sounds further into SF, rather than what was apparently just a neat theory of conjuring and showmanship. Next you'll tell me the clones have a high midichlorian count.

The "theory" is on this page and the last, Matt. It's just people who saw the film putting forward another suggested reading... not really a theory.

As for the novel: I'm hesitant to consider that the authority on what we're meant to read from a film. I understand the two may be closely connected, but I don't think that means we can turn to the source novel for the final word on an adaptation.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:42 / 25.11.06
To add further (and admittedly, some of my own) confusion to this; I'm inclined to believe that Tesla's machine didn't work, but then what was Angier thinking when he went to the trouble of moving the thing close enough to Borden's gallows to (presumably) rescue him? Or did Angier want to swap places?

(This is all fascinating stuff, though - very enjoyable to be at least vaguely talking about a movie that, for once, seem worth discussing.)
 
 
matthew.
02:16 / 25.11.06
I wasn't trying to be rude, if anybody took it that way.

And you're right, miss w, we can't take the novel as final word just because it's souce.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:25 / 25.11.06
My Movie is An Oddity, by Rock Star Dave

David Bowie admitted yesterday that HE couldn't make sense of his new hit movie. The pop legend - famous for his song Space Oddity - agreed to take part alongside hunks Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman. But he admits even he is baffled by arty director Christopher Nolan's twisted tale.




A Kind of Magic: Bowie is baffled by new movie


"When they asked me to play Nikola Tesla, I thought, oh God they want me in a frock and long wig again," laughed Bowie, who shocked the world with his gender-bending antics. "Then I realised, a man with a name like that, he can't be from round here. So I did him with a foreign accent."

In a twist worthy of Nolan's crazy, time-twisting plot (see our guide on page 17), Bowie asked funnyman pal RICKY GERVAIS for guidance.



That's a prestige-ious role: David Brent was key influence


"When I asked Ricky how I should play Tesla, he said to me, 'Are you havin a laugh?'" Bowie chuckles. "We batted it back and forward for a little while, trying to work out what a mad professor would look like, then he said, why don't you just make yourself look like me? I'm good at science, I'm a bit mad." Bowie challenged the comic for evidence of his science skills, and Gervais retorted "CSE Physics. Grade One. Beat that. You can't beat that, it's the highest you can get, Grade One."

Audiences around the land have been scratching their heads over the final shots, which show top hats scattered around Tesla's eccentric hideaway. Fans are divided, some claiming Tesla CLONED the hats, and some insisting he could have BOUGHT them.

The Thin White Duke, famous for describing "Fashion" in his 1980s hit, gave a definitive answer about the headwear. "I'm pretty sure Christopher BOUGHT them," he muses. "I just arrived on the set and they were lying on the grass. I don't think he cloned them. Probably someone put them there. Could have been a space alien," he adds with a twinkle.

Do YOU think Tesla cloned the hats? Call our national-rate hotline below and vote YES or NO.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:27 / 25.11.06
That's a fine piece of journalism.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:29 / 25.11.06
That's much appreciated from the Manhattan Guardian man ~ though it did kill the thread.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:04 / 25.11.06
Oh wait a minute - did you write that? I thought it was cut-and-paste from the Daily Mail or something.

Sarcastic comment was directed only at the latter.
 
  

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