Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Conversation >

Your watch.

Page: 1 2 3(4)5

*

14:50 / 06.09.06

Matt, that's pretty much what I feel. Right on.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

14:50 / 06.09.06

So you don't feel that tolerance as an abstract has a place on the board? If, for example, people all decided to be a little more tolerant by their own definition you don't think that would be of use in say avoiding the seemingly near constant meta posting on the board?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:57 / 06.09.06

reid, to the best of my knowledge we are not "feuding", although I do find the experience of reading your posts often to be akin to having a knitting needle jammed into the space between my eyeball and socket, then wiggled around.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:58 / 06.09.06

So you don't feel that tolerance as an abstract has a place on the board?

Tolerance, kindness, patience - all of these have a place on the board. As do justice, mercy, wisdom, friendship, integrity, fearless commitment to the truth, compassion, and, hey, love.

However, individuals will generally extend tolerance in different ways. So, to say "everyone should be more tolerant" essentially means "everyone should alter their behaviour in a way which I would recognise as more closely evident of what I recognise as tolerant", id est "everyone should be more tolerant of me". As you have just shown by saying that, in your opinion, you are already as tolerant of Flyboy as needs be, and much more than he deserves, because you are such a tolerant guy. You believe that many others will be in the same position, because the fact that Flyboy has not been hounded off the board demonstrates that everyone who, common sense dictates, loathes him is being tolerant of him, just as you are.

Quod erat demonstrandum, really.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

15:08 / 06.09.06

Well, no. I disagree but hey that's okay.

I struggle to think that if we all applied our own definition of tolerance to our posts the place would be a worse place. This largely because I struggle to see negative connotations for tolerance unless you assign some kind of meaning beyond it's actual meaning (i.e: "This is what you meant, rather than what you said.")

Lets take the example you've given. My response to Flyboy was more tolerant than if I'd said: "Go and fuck yourself tossface?" See, I've made the board slightly brighter than it potemtially could've been by applying my own definition of tolerance.

Now you try. Try being two times more tolerant (by your own definition) than you were going to be with your reply. Soon all three of us will be holding hands and skipping through the Conversation.

Flyboy I'm pleased that we're not feuding and I find your reply strangely gratifying, thanks for taking the time to post it. Did you see CSI Miami last night?

Are we not now horribly rotting this thread?

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

15:12 / 06.09.06

Incidently I don't require tolerance I'm happy enough to defend what I post as and when. The people requiring tolerance at the moment are not me. I just think people should stop and think a bit before high tailing it to the Policy to complain about another poster.

15:15 / 06.09.06

The people requiring tolerance at the moment are not me. I just think people should stop and think a bit before high tailing it to the Policy to complain about another poster.

If you're talking about the flirting thread I think that was started by Ganesh out of interest rather than a need to complain. The people who have posted in it posted in it as a discussion rather than to complain, too.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

15:18 / 06.09.06

I'm actually trying not to refrence anything in particular because I don't want to be seen to be pointing fingers. Also at the end of the day this is just my perspective of what's happening on Barbelith at the moment, the Policy seems to be the knew Conversation only it's nastier.

"Why can't we be friends, Why can't we be friends..."

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:19 / 06.09.06

Well, sure. And if you had been more tolerant of people having different opinions than you here, or indeed had been sufficiently tolerant of other people's opinions to disagree politely rather than getting the capital letters box out,we would indeed have been saved a chunk of metadiscussion.

However, your example suggests that you are confusing "tolerant" with "borderline capable of interacting in social space". If you had responded with your second choice to Flyboy, you would have been judged accordingly, because Barbelith is a social space and not simply a series of tests by which the user can build up their tolerance muscles, although I can certainly see why it might seem that way sometimes. As it is, you went for:

No.

Glad we've got that sorted out.

If it's any consolation I feel, not only I but the vast majority of posters here are very tolerant of you. Bask in it for a while.

Now if that reads as a contradiction have a think about why before posting back.

Incidently whilst I respect your unwillingness to answer my PM I am still interested, are we a feuding?

Which has told me that you are not interested in being more tolerant of things that you don't like, only in other people being more tolerant of things you do like. It has also told me that you are claiming the support of a vast majority for your tolerance levels, because it is common sense to find Flyboy's contributions demanding of great tolerance.

Quod, quod dixeram, erat demonstrandum.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

15:28 / 06.09.06

Cheers, Haus, that made me chuckle. Though perhaps you're right perhaps I have failed to be tolerant, though again I was applying my own definition of tolerance, as you've pointed out but perhaps I'm not tolerant enough and I should go and try again. Though you are some way to convincing me that tolerance is a waste of time. Incidently if you hadn't been being twice as tolerant as you normally are what would you have written?

Incidently the example I gave was an exageration but you're right too flippant.

reid, to the best of my knowledge we are not "feuding", although I do find the experience of reading your posts often to be akin to having a knitting needle jammed into the space between my eyeball and socket, then wiggled around.

Flyboy in your opnion how would I go about remedying this?

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:40 / 06.09.06

Though you are some way to convincing me that tolerance is a waste of time.

Well, good, reid. I think tolerance is a very important thing, and the way that it usually expresses itself best on bulletin boards is by giving people a chance to explain or alter their methods of interaction. On t'other hand, I don't know if tolerance is particulalry an issue here. I don't really tolerate or not-tolerate you, I just interact with you. I hope that at this point I have a reasonably good model with which to work out when that interaction is fun/entertaining/instructive/profitable, and how to make it so, but my objectives are gooing to be different, because we're different people. So, if I had exercised twice as much tolerance, I don't know if it would have made a significant difference. I would go further and say that I don't know exactly how one would exercise twice the tolerance as a matter of personal choice. Would that mean that before now one would have been behaving with half the tolerance one could have? That's a bit of a head-melting concept.

There probably are methods which might be useful, though. For example, recently I've been logged out of Barbelith most of the tiime. That means that when I log in I have often had more time to think about what's been going on, and to see how discussions have developed. Also, I get some mad-shit google adverts. Also also, that ties quite nicely back into the topic, because that's one of the ways interacting with Barbelith either as an absence or a spectator differs from interacting with it as an agent.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

15:51 / 06.09.06

Also also, that ties quite nicely back into the topic, because that's one of the ways interacting with Barbelith either as an absence or a spectator differs from interacting with it as an agent.

This is interesting, it sort of ties in with what I've been thinking about the silent majority on Barbelith. There are so many different degrees of interacting with the board that sometimes we as posters seem to disagree over what is or isn't a "quality" (can't think of a better word) post because one is an "agent" and the other's approach to the board is much more casual.

This in turn brings me to the mind that should different posters have a different value on their opinions as regards the board? On the one hand equality says no, on the other hand the more casual poster should respect the degree of time and effort the "agent" puts into the site.

Not sure if I said that quite as well as I could.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:40 / 06.09.06

Well, somebody who is logged in and posting is an "agent" in some capacity.

On t'other hand, we already do essentially draw some distinctions between people. For example, at the moment Caleigh is being criticised for the content of hir posts. Also, we quite often find the argument advanced, usually in banning discussions, that there are _plenty of other places on the web where you can do x_, where x is a form of behaviour that might normally go unremarked elsewhere - like calling people fags, complaining about those aggressive black panhandlers, and so on. That's usually done, I think, because Barbelith is by nature very inclusive - one thing about geeks culture is that it often has negative experience of being excluded and so, while it will bitch abbout people, ignore them or be rude to them, it shrinks from rejecting them completely, as banning, say, does. So, we reassure ourselves that there are other paces where the person will not just be accepted, but will also be happier.

It's not quite as simple as Barbelith versus the rest of thhe Internet, of course. We're probably talking more about a series of content expectations and boundaries, and a series of roles within the space that exists through constant negotiation with those boundaries. However, there are certainly things that Barbelith can do or seeks to do as a kind of charter mark which are often not priorities in other areas of the Internet, and the combination of these charter marks helps to create an impression of what Barbelith should be as an ideal form.

However, since there are charter marks but no charter, how this should function, and in some cases what those objectives are, is to an extent up for grabs.

08:28 / 09.09.06

Actually, I tend to be the anti 'I've left! I'm back!' person... I think I'm more often seen posting 'I'm back' and then vanishing again. It's been a while since I've been able to build up enough momentum to be anything like consistently present, which is a vicious circle. So sorry if this is annoying, because, like 'oh, Deva's not here, what's new...' It's just that a few things have come up lately that I'd like to contribute to, but I was sick last week and now I'm going on holiday for a fortnight, so if you're missing me over in 'experience and empathy' or the L-word thread, or wondering why I haven't started a Pinhoe Egg thread, that's why.

22:07 / 09.09.06

"Actually, I tend to be the anti 'I've left! I'm back!' person... I think I'm more often seen posting 'I'm back' and then vanishing again."

I've been guilty of this to an alarming degree myself. I believe I "left" quietly, returned (drunkenly) with an "I am returned!" sort of post in the Conversation, and then disappeared and reappeared without comment a smattering of times since then. I ultimately converted to what I think is a better way of doings things. If I feel that I'm leaving someone on the line in a particular thread, I'll PM them to make sure they know it's not an abandonment for the sake of abandonment, just one form of life interfering with another. Otherwise, comings and goings sans noisemaking.

There's something very odd about posting on and off within a community like this one for seven-odd years. I hate to see anyone go (excepting a notable few, of course).

paranoidwriter waves hello

02:15 / 15.09.06

This is my third retirement announcement of recent times (I think); so this time it must be true, right?

Seriously though, previously the comments of a few others, good and bad, had (in one way or t'other ) made me see that I didn't have to "leave" for a long spell, or indeed, forever, and ever. But, to the detriment of my (ahem) "inner calm" at least, I now think I returned too soon, each time. So, this time I MEAN business, yeah?!

*sits in lotus position and breathes, deeply, and consciously *

Ah... yes.... Sorry, where was I? That's it... A holiday is in order, me thinks. A break from Barbelith for my bad, naughty self, and a nice mini-break from my normal meatspace RL too. Honestly, it has been sooooo long since I've had a proper non-Busman's holiday anywhere, other than my parent's home city each year for Christmas; you wouldn't believe me if I told you how many years ago my last proper holiday was...

That typed, I will endeavour to keep working on the "Context" (etc) thingamajigs I'm preparing (as I stated elsewhere), I think. However, I now think I'm going to save my latest pseudo-scientific-cod-piece for a different venue. Maybe a (new) blog somewhere?... I dunno, yet. And of course, knowing myself, as I do, I may even get distracted by something more shiny and never even finish my current linguistically theoretical masterpiece... A bit like Leonardo da Vinci's famous 'Gran Cavallo'... er... Only without the talent, brains, ability, and beauty, of course... But if I do actually finish the ugly beast and finally decide to let it graze free and out in the open (and not on Barbelith), I'll post an alert / link around here, somewhere. Promise.

So... Until next time? Love ya Barbelith, and seriously I really don't mean ANYBODY any harm and... And.... well... Well, for now, if you'll forgive me, I'll let an old film to do my talking, for a change....

"Don't eat him Granddad, he's mine and 'arry's babby!..."

Happy Dave Has Left

14:40 / 23.09.06

Hey folks. I have returned from my sojourn in the mountains.

And I got engaged. To my girl, whom I met on Flickr. Yay Interweb!

14:45 / 23.09.06

Congratulations Dave!

15:10 / 23.09.06

Nice one, Dave.

Maybe you should stop by this thread

22:52 / 23.09.06

I'm just back from the pub in what was my last Saturday night in London and this will probably be my last time on Barbelith for a long time.. I remember back in the Gooood ol Days when there was a lightbulb to tell you when something had been updated but it's all been good - I've met some great people that's made living in London a lot more fun - All the best and all that!

22:55 / 23.09.06

Oh yeah and Squirmelia rules.

trouble at bill

11:48 / 24.09.06

ohmygod... well, best of British with wherever/whatever you're going/doing next, sah. Or best of Scottish if you'd prefer that of course.

11:49 / 24.09.06

All the best Bear. Be sure to get in touch next time you visit!

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:29 / 24.09.06

Good luck Bear! Check in from time to time.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:29 / 24.09.06

(And yes, she does.)

13:16 / 24.09.06

Congratulations Dave! Just had a look through the photosets and the two of you look really happy together. The internet sometimes gets it right.

And Bon Voyage Bear! Safe and joyous journeys to you, shaggy traveler!

lord nuneaton savage

13:42 / 25.09.06

I'm off for a week or two as well, or at least until I get net access sorted out at home. Admittedly I don't post much but I know that the realisation that I'm not observing all with my glassy eye will be affecting for many of you.

I love you darling, but...my country needs me...

*walks purposefully in the direction of a large airship*

13:44 / 25.09.06

*sobs* Be careful out there! *waves handkerchief tearfully*

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:58 / 25.09.06

B'bye, bear! See you soon!

And your lordship! Be careful out there. I hear they have a Land Leviathan. And they're ALWAYS a fucker.

15:57 / 25.09.06

Bear, I have and will miss your posts on wrestling sooo sooo much.

Savage, I salute you from the runway.

Kiltartan Cross

16:19 / 25.09.06

And your lordship! Be careful out there. I hear they have a Land Leviathan.

Good heavens. Godspeed you black emperor!

12:59 / 28.09.06

My new user ID is significantly less funny than it seemed to be last night, post-pub. Now, it seems ... quite embarrassing, and a clear enough indication that I left rehab too early. Consequently, I will be off the board for the next month or so, at which point one of my mildly less demented relations will hopefully take over.

15:24 / 04.10.06

I jacked in my job yesterday as I was tired of the corporate shite I was putting myself through. Don't have another job lined up yet nor internet access at home, so not sure how long I'll be away for. Good luck all.

15:41 / 04.10.06

Best of luck to ya, Jub. It's hard to make that jump, but you did what's best for you. Stay strong out there. You'll find something better in no time.

15:42 / 04.10.06

I second monk's post, Jub. Good luck.

Page: 1 2 3(4)5