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Superman Returns - Post -release thread

 
  

Page: (1)2345

 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:38 / 28.06.06
As I cower under this crate, listening for ther telltale screeching of my monstrous hunter, I rather wish Superman were here to SAAAAAAVE ME (let his warm hands break right through it).

Alas, no such luck, so I must spend what little time I have left collating reviews of this movie, which is now released in the US and ready for discussion.

So. Yotsuba and Benjamin said:

This movie is to movies what Superman is to superheroes.

Everything you've ever wanted to see in a Superman movie and tons of things you never thought of. Honestly, the Donner films are quaint curios, a nice try, but this film makes it abundantly clear that no one should have tried to make a Superman movie until the technology existed to make this one. Seriously.

The flying, the OUTRAGEOUS feats of strength all feel solid as a god damned rock. The performances all mesh well into the fabric of the film and its world. Brandon Routh is a perfect choice, as you don't think of anything else but Clark Kent and Superman when you see him. Posey and Spacey were fantastic. There's stuff in there that unless you've been spoiled (I wasn't) might legitimately surprise you. And if you haven't been spoiled you will literally have no idea where this is headed next.

But what really sells it is the detail. The dust. The sonic booms. The atmosphere. It is the most seamless live action superhero movie I've ever seen.

Just as there are some things Superman can't do, and that's why other heroes exist, obviously there are a myriad of other movies that can't do what this one does. That are exceptional in their own ways. They are subtle where this movie is bold. But just like there are some things only Superman can do, there are some things only this movie can do. You've never known what a Superman could actually do until you've seen this movie, trust me.

The strange thing is, I'm not compelled to see it again like RIGHT NOW. It is eminently satisfying and gratifying and when it ends, you don't want it to start over. Or at least I didn't. It's iconic, the way Superman is, and that's not the kind of thing, I guess, you can just get pummled by again and again.

I certainly will see it again, but I doubt it will be the same experience. Not knowing at all what to expect, I think I was able to really enjoy the film on its own terms, without waiting for this part or that part. Everything was completely fresh and awe inspiring when it needed to be.

Just one really incredible movie.

And Finder, that reviewer [on Newsarama] was Mike SanGiacomo, the man who tried to convince the world that Paul Gulacy was what was right in comic books and people like Darwyn Cooke and Cameron Stewart were what was terribly terribly wrong with them.


Spyder added:

I have seen this film. It is quite enjoyable. Easilly the most satisfying superhero movie since Spider-Man 2. Worlds beyond that X3 rubbish. It just feels... right, I suppose. You should go see it if you have not.


Teehee. "Krrrrrrrypt-tinite." Giggle.


Cameron Stewart, taking time out from being no Paul Gulacy, said:

Benjamin, I agree wholeheartedly (about the movie, I mean, not about San Giacomo ).

From the still photos I'd seen, from the trailers, from the bits I'd read, I had reservations. I thought Routh looked too young and thin, I thought Kate Bosworth was unconvincing as both a seasoned reporter and a brunette, I had my little nitpicks about the costume.

But I absolutely adored Superman Returns from beginning to end. Routh was a perfect choice, there wasn't a minute in it that I didn't completely buy him as Superman and Clark Kent. The action scenes are exciting and epic, the flying scenes are breathtaking, Spacey manages to be both funny and truly sinister. There was one scene (I won't spoil it) that almost had me in tears, and I really wasn't expecting that.

There's one plot development that is a significant deviation from the comics, and I'm not quite sure how it will play out in subsequent films, but for this one at least it didn't bother me.

Loved it. Loved it loved it.


Solitaire Rose:

I saw it in an Imax trheater with four sequences in 3D, and I have to say that I liked it a LOT more than I thought I would. Spacey carried the movie on his back, and while the Superman sequences were well done, I kept wanting the movie to go back to Luthor. The plot was well done, and fed off of the older movies without wallowing in them.

It also reminded me why I like the Movie Superman so much more than the comic book Superman. He is, at heart, a very simple character, and the movie remembered that, making the PLOT complicated and not his reaction to it, if it makes any sense.

Parker Posey in ANY movie makes it better, but I was really surprised how well she did at the "sidekick" part.

Bosworth didn't look old enough to drive, let alone be a reporter who's been in the business for at LEAST seven or so years.

My nitpicks were actually mentioned by someone behind me in the theater who said, "They should call him Super-Stalker."


Mister Six:

From the opening sequences featuring the John Williams
score, there is a nod toward the original film's
style. It's immediately clear that Bryan Singer
understand the character and has hit the nail on the
head with his vision of the comic book character on
film. I had read that the directot had immense
adoration for the first two films and had set his
feature to follow them, but to see a modern movie,
released a good twenty years since the last time
Christopher Reeves donned the tights to fight a
supervillain borne from the Cold War and voiced by an
uninspired Gene Hackman still embrace its celluloid
legacy is nothing short of ingenius and touching.

And the honoring of material is not restricted to the
previous films. Acute viewers will notice a very
direct reference to the character's first appearance
in Action Comics as he tips a car over his head (this
time to save the driver rather than bully a crook).

The performances are top notch and without giving
anything away, Kevin Spacey gives one of his most
understated and restrained performances (good thing)
and James Marsden his most lively (very good thing).
Parker Posy delivers some welcome humor and even
pathos to the film with her character, a direct
reference to the first film's Miss Tessembacher.
Brandon Routh arrives as a successor to Reeves'
performance and does it great honor. From his diction
and poise to the awkward physical language and
humanity of Clark Kent, Routhe doesn't so much imitate
Reeves' performance, but does it homage. He saves a
crashing aircraft only to deliver a speech that 'I
hope this haven't put you off on flying' and you can't
help but see the character for what he is, a simple
country boy in overly designed tights.

And that brings us to the costume, here redesigned to
apparently make the average American feel even more
self conscious about his or her body. The sleek lines
and ribbed material hammer home that this is a perfect
human devoid of fatty tissue, lithe as a swimmer but
with the power of a God. Apparently he does a lot of
walking as well because the costume features the
biggest boot soles I've ever seen outside of a Hot
Topic, complete with little S's on the back heel in
case you were worried that you had misstaken the Man
of Steel for someone else.

The tone of the film is one of hope, something that in
the current climate of global war we have lost sight
of. Superman watches world wide insanity reign over
the globe first over TV airwaves then in a very moving
scene as he listens from space, drinking in the
implications of a world without heroes where a blue
and red savior will not be coming to defuse a bomb,
rescue hostages or even put out a house fire.

The danger is not just that this world is in danger,
it's bitter and cold without a hero. Indignant, the
people Superman used to protect have moved on. Like a
spurned lover, the world is trying to act like they're
better off without him. The story goes that Superman
left five years ago without a word to anyone. He was
thought gone forever and his biggest fan, Lois Lane,
turned her back on him, winning acclaim for writing an
article against him, building a case for why he was
never needed in the first place.

Superman's return is not just for the world that the
film is set in, but for the audience as well who, if
lucky, have put behind the fourth (there were four?)
film so many years ago. With the return of the
Metropolis Marvel, there is hope, there is a safety
net in the fact that there is a savior to answer our
cries for help, something to keep the monsters at bay.

Well, at least in the movies... at least for the
summer.


You have no idea how hard it was to do that while trying to avoid spoilers. I love you guys. I suppose I'll never live to see it, anyway.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:53 / 28.06.06
Thanks, Haus, for compiling and editing those & opening up the new thread. I'm completely psyched to see this movie (as if that wasn't apparent from the pre-release thread) and overjoyed that it's getting such positive reviews all around. Cheers.
 
 
Billuccho!
00:38 / 29.06.06
I'm not sure how to describe this movie. It wasn't bad. It wasn't great, though. It just was. As it stands, it barely whelmed me. If "whelm" can be used as an action verb.

I liked all the actors, and I was quite surprised to see Kate Bosworth turning out the best performance in the whole thing. Spacey was, y'know, Spacey. Skeletor was a cool Perry White. Sam Huntington was a terrific Jimmy Olsen, and also had one of the best performances in the thing. Marsden got more to do in this than he probably did in the entire X-Trilogy. The kid wasn't annoying. The cameos were fun. Parker Posey was fine. I even liked Marlon Brando... FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE...

It was a waste of Eva Marie Saint and Kal Penn, though. Methinks they ended up on the cutting room floor. A lot.

Brandon Routh is no Christopher Reeve, but I don't feel like comparing them. He did a fine job. A bit stiff, but, well, that's Superman for you. He didn't play Clark or Superman over-the-top.

I don't want to be too spoilery here, but let me say I was disappointed at the lack of a climax or resolution. The movie had no ending; it just stopped after about two and a half hours of build-up. Luthor and Superman barely got two minutes of screentime together. Luthor's plan simply... doesn't happen. And then that's it. There was no resolution for any of the plots.

It was good to have John Williams' theme music back, but I felt it was overused. It popped up too much and got old after a while. Every mention of Superman? Bam! Play the theme!

A few tiny bits nagged at me. The dog-eat-dog joke. A couple deaths caused by the good guys. That kinda thing.

But then, the saving-the-plane scene was fantastic, and probably the highlight of the movie.

The movie just didn't feel complete. It also could've used some more emotional resonance. So yeah, I was kinda disappointed, but then, I went in expecting to love it. And instead, I find that it was just decent.
 
 
Billuccho!
00:42 / 29.06.06
One more thing: It seemed like this film was more of an homage to the Donner films than, you know, a movie which stood on its own. Considering I'm not in love with the Donner films, nor do I actually own any of them on DVD or VHS... yeah. I wasn't feelin' it, I guess.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
04:43 / 29.06.06
I agree with a lot of what Bill just said, so that means I can go to bed and not type it all up.

Thanks!
 
 
Ben Danes
06:49 / 29.06.06
Really liked it, besides it being overlong (duh) and the curious decision of casting Tucker Carlson as Jimmy Olsen.

Bosworth was surprisingly solid, given that she was panned in most reviews I had read. She looks skinnier than her sick kid though, which was always worrying me in the back of my mind when she was on screen. I can see how some people may not like such a fragile looking Lois, (see licence comment above) but just based on her performance she was real solid. Routh was the surprise though, and really won me over by being a bit less wooden as Superman than Reeve, and doing some nice scenes as Clark. I actually would have liked to have had some more Clark scenes, that's how well I thought Routh did there.

Spacey was great as Luthor, and did well channeling Hackman-Luthor (your Luthor preference could colour your opinion here. I like pretty much all iterations of Lex, so no probs with me). His exchange with Lois along the lines of "And millions will die Lex?", "Once again the press underestimates me; billions will die!" was the line of the movie.

I liked all the homages to the Donner film(s), such as the Williams score and the same fonts being used for the opening credits scene, the Krypton crystals and so on. Good decision to keep Superman I and II in 'continuity', as there's parts I love to death in the Donner films, and parts that make me cringe at times as well (Otis, Hackman at times, flying counter-clockwise to turn back time, "Can you read my fucking mind" arrgh). I think the best way to sum up Superman Returns is that it is everything that is good about the Donner films, without all the crap stuff. If that sounds good to you, then you'll probably love it.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
09:28 / 29.06.06
A few tiny bits nagged at me. The dog-eat-dog joke. A couple deaths caused by the good guys. That kinda thing.

This was the one thing that nagged at me, but probably in the opposite direction. When his henchmen were crushed and Lex made the point of loudly proclaiming they should leave everything.

THEY WERE KILLED BY THEIR OWN AVARICE, YOU SEE.

But hey. It's Superman.
 
 
Ben Danes
11:38 / 29.06.06
Super-Kid, I could have definitely done without him killing. Will we see him suffer pre-teen-style angst over killing in the next film? I'm dead against Superman ever killing full stop, so definitely thought it was not needed. I didn't even think the henchman had been killed when he did it, so that made it even more unnecesary, as the thought hadn't even crossed the mind.

When they first cut to the dog(s) at the mansion, I thought they were both snacking on the old ladies bones, Lex just having left her there for them. Which was (just) a tad more darker than what Kitty went onto elaborate.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:20 / 29.06.06
Somethin was bothering me last night after seeing it and it clicked on the walk to work this morning.

Astronomers found what they thought was Krypton, told Superman where it was, and then when all the "Hey, where the fuck is Superman?" talk started none of these STAR Labs guys thought to call into Lois?

Also, IS Superman 2 in continuity with this movie? There was no mention of Zod and the other Kryptonians when Clark was getting emo about being the last survivor.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:28 / 29.06.06
I thought the kid was all emo, no?

huh.

I don't remember the chain of events being that astronomers found Krypton, told Superman and he left. Didn't he just say that astronomers thought they had found Krypton? Given his cosmic evesdropping skillz, a conversation wasn't really necessary.

It's also unclear how strictly the previous films are in continuity. I mean despite the fact that it has been said to take place after Superman 2, there's nothing in the film that 3 or 4 didn't happen as well, is there? Unless I missed something (which is possible since I kept putting my 3D glasses on and off even though it was not an IMAX theater) the only plotpoint that seems definite from the previous films besides the obvious (Superman arrives, saves peole and the world loves him) is that Kal El got to shake his thing with Lois.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:44 / 29.06.06
I haven't seen it, due to being a no-good limey, but Dave's Long Box review made me laugh:

Superman Returns is better than Batman Returns, but not as good as Batman Begins. It's also not as good as X-Men 2, but it is better than The Fantastic Four and is about a third as good as both Superman and Superman II combined. It's not up there with Blade, but it's twice as good as Daredevil and five times as good as Catwoman. It would take all the combined good parts of Elektra, Batman and Robin, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze to equal half of Superman Returns, but Superman Returns would have to be twice as rad to equal The Incredibles or Spider-Man 2. Having said that, I'd say it was a little better than X-Men 3 and four times as good as Superman III and IV (separately.) It's no Swamp Thing, though.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
14:29 / 29.06.06
That's pretty funny.

No one should ever have to see Superman Four.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:34 / 29.06.06
Those who do not learn from bad sequels are doomed to remake them...
 
 
matthew.
20:53 / 29.06.06
Quick thoughts - will return:

I liked the Christ imagery at the end, when he falls from the sky.

The credit sequence almost made me cry; that theme is incredible.

Routh had too much makeup on.
 
 
Triplets
09:26 / 30.06.06
No one should ever have to see Superman Four.

There wasn't a Superman 4, Blues Brothers 2000 never got made. They might exist on that Earth where Highlander 2 got made. Earth-Hack.

Also: Billions!
 
 
Triplets
09:30 / 30.06.06
It's also unclear how strictly the previous films are in continuity.

They're there to inspire the new Superman films. Like how pre-Crisis fossils crushed into All-Star oil. By the pressure from Grant's giant head.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
11:45 / 30.06.06
Triplets, I like your world.
 
 
Saint Keggers
12:11 / 30.06.06
I liked the Christ imagery at the end, when he falls from the sky.
I HATED* that. If I wanted some religion I would have stayed home and waited for the Jehovah's Witnesses to come to the door.

I didn't like Brandon Routh for the simple reason that the whole time I kept thinking how much he looked like Christopher Reeve..BUT ISNT!

Kevin Spacey was good.

Parker Posey.... despise her. She has all the acting skills of a decaying eggplant.

The special effects were great. Although a few times Supe looked 100% CGI.



*Notice that I both capitalized and made bold the word hate, just to illustrate how much hatred is involved in thta particular hate.
 
 
Professor Silly
14:23 / 30.06.06
I'm assuming that since this is a post-release thread there's no need for spoiler space.

My guitarist inquired about the possibilities of Super-Conception and all that...but that seems easily explained by the sequence of Superman II: he depowers himself to be with Lois, and musta knocked her up then. Then Zod shows up and he reclaims his powers etc.

I was curious about the extra crystals that fell out of the helicopter, but since no new land mass started, I can only assume they were launched into space too. Now he has no crystals (sad)...and all those rocks that fell back into the ocean will have to be taken care of too (but in my mind, that's what a JLA is for).

I LOVED how Superman would often communicate with just a warm, knowing smile. This seemed the embodiment of the "super-chill" Superman from Morrison's All Star Superman comic.

I too saw this in IMAX 3D, and for that reason I have to go see it again...as the 3D sequences seemed a little...dark and muted. Granted, there was a great sense of depth, but still I'd like to see them in full vibrant color.

Finally, this really makes me pine for a "World's Finest" movie!
 
 
Spaniel
18:22 / 30.06.06
I HATED* that. If I wanted some religion I would have stayed home and waited for the Jehovah's Witnesses to come to the door.

I find your hatred interesting 'cause in my world Jesus Christ and Superman have a lot in common in that they're both mythological embodiments of complete and utter goodness.

I'm not a believer, by the way. That's just the way I read 'em.
 
 
matthew.
21:58 / 30.06.06
Yeah, I wouldn't immediately equate a visual reference to the Cross with evangelicalism.
 
 
Hieronymus
22:30 / 30.06.06
And the associations were there in the first films, much less from the beginning.
 
 
Mug Chum
16:56 / 01.07.06
Oh my...
 
 
Hieronymus
18:28 / 02.07.06
Finally saw it last night, after having to buy my friends ticket to get them to come with....

The movie that saved Richard Donner’s ass.

Seriously. I was never a fan of the 1970s original films. Hokey as all get out and poorly plotted, if not poorly dialogued from start to finish. I always HATED Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor. Or Margot Kidder as Lois Lane. Everybody always mocks the subsequent movies, as if they somehow slid from great to good to really horrible. But you can see, even in the first movie, that the seeds were there from the beginning. A couple of nice gems in them, but mired in a whole lot of garbage.

But this movie took all the best stuff from the Donner films and improved on them. Jesus Christ Superfather Returns… was, as a friend and Superman fanatic described it, “a love letter” to the icon that is Kal-El. What struck me the most was how much this movie was filled with hope. Hope at what could come from a resurrected cinematic Superman and hope that kindness and generosity would win out over doom or catastrophe. Just when you least expected it could come.

It did what countless other attempts at portraying Superman have tried to do and failed. It made you feel the tension, the visceral fear of a life-and-death disaster. Good CGI was made for this movie and this flick was full of top knotch work.

Little things I noticed, like the scene of the shredded boat-- lifted from Jurassic Park movies and Titanic and improved upon-- or that amazing airplane/space shuttle scene were rich with mounting danger. A lot of the moments of peril weren’t shown through Superman’s eyes or some disconnected third person perspective with Superman right on his way to save those in trouble, most of which is the standard m.o.

It was done through the people most in need of his help. Low angles looking up or right from the p.o.v. of those in distress, with distress that was realistic and played right to the edge (the shot of the ship pantry doorway, pointed at the sky or the door window going from surface to submerged, the shot up into the air of the Daily Planet globe plummeting right towards the camera). A super ant to the rescue.

And as the odds of making it out alive kept getting slimmer and slimmer and slimmer, it made his arrival and presence that much more resonant with relief. Because you honestly thought, for half a second, that he might be busy elsewhere.

That’s how you make a good Superman movie, goddamit. You make Superman genuinely fucking needed. And you do it by playing the danger right at the cliff's edge. He’s the Avalokitesvara/lifeguard of the world. Anything else is a job for the Coast Guard, right?

I also wasn’t sure how I would feel about the Jason thing. One reviewer I read blamed the whole piano thing on the rocking of the boat. Which simply wasn’t in the film.

But the more I thought about it, the more it seemed an apt extension, not just of the first film and his romance with Lois Lane, but of Superman himself. His character is familial. As Ma Kent said in the film, “you may be the last of your kind, but you’re not alone”. He’s not Batman, perpetually isolated, even among those who care about him. Orphan though he is, Clark/Kal-El has always known how important family can be. It’s an integral part of him. So it only seems a natural evolution of his character that he’d become a father.

Supposedly this one's going the Batman Begins word-of-mouth course.
 
 
Billuccho!
20:37 / 02.07.06
I didn't get those feelings at all, Heironymous... the thing felt like it lacked a lot of heart and soul. (Ah, irony.) But I'm glad someone got the feeling one should in a Superman film.
 
 
Mark Parsons
02:49 / 03.07.06
I was very pleasantly suprised; LOVED it. And Routh was a nice revelation: he was my one worry going in and he pulled of Clark & Superman.

It's more emotional that Batman Begins, which gives it a slight edge IMO.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:48 / 04.07.06
I really enjoyed this, and there were really a lot of fantastic moments and bits. I thought Routh was pretty good, although I saw a young actor there who didn't quite have the charisma, comic timing, presence, and overall acting skill level of Reeve. I didn't think there was any chemistry between Routh and Bosworth, and file me under those who thought Bosworth was adequate but kind of weak and miscast overall.

The plane sequence - amazing. All the shots of Supes in flight - amazing. The various 'Superman saving people' scenes - terrific. Spacey as Luthor - great except for his "Billions!" line delivery. The flying sequence with Lois & Supes - pretty darn good, esp. considering I didn't like Bosworth very much. James Mardsen did a really nice job here; best acting I've ever seen from him.

Luthor discovering stowaway Lois while brushing his teeth - priceless.

Posey was fine, did the Ms. Tessmacher thing. New Jimmy Olsen: hilarious, almost stole the movie for me. Frank Langella as Perry: terrific. I love the shot of Perry sitting back in his chair, pensive, as the whole world rejoices that Superman is back. When Perry says "Superman returns," you can feel the electricity in his voice and in his eyes.

Almost too many scenes of power grids going off and then rebooting again for me...I counted what, maybe 3? 4? One little kid in the theater shouted out in a high voice: "Not agaaaaain!" when the power grids went out for the 2nd or third time.

>> The movie had no ending; it just stopped after about two and a half hours of build-up. Luthor and Superman barely got two minutes of screentime together. Luthor's plan simply... doesn't happen. And then that's it. There was no resolution for any of the plots.

I felt similar - we don't get a resoluton of the Lois/Supes/Cyclops triangle, and Supes doesn't seem to feel the need to hunt Luthor down for his crimes , which I figured would be the next step. (I know Luthor is on a remote island and all, but there's no mention of Supes even trying or wanting to bring Luthor to justice.)

Sometimes, especially towards the end, I didn't get the extra feeling of 'oomph' that I want from a Superman movie.

Loved the final shot mirroring the final shot in Superman: The Movie. Also loved the opening credits in the style of Superman I and II.

The 2nd half of the movie seemed very quiet....even the action sequences had little or no dialogue. The pace seemed quite mellow towards the end.

The 'scourging' of Clark/Jesus was quite biblical, and Posey as Kitty Magdalene looking on, watching man's inhumanity to man in action. Shots of Superman crawling on the ground, in the mud, unable to defend himself, were appropriately disturbing. And to continue the Jesus analogy, it's a woman who goes to his tomb/hospital bed and finds he's gone! Well, that may be stretching it a bit, but there you have it.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:56 / 04.07.06
I find my thoughts echoing those of Newsarama writer/reviewer Troy Brownfield:

>> ...the shuttle/plane sequence was terrific. It was miles above anything we’d seen in a Superman film before, and exactly the kind of action that belongs in this film. More so than most heroes, Superman has always been a guy who has stopped disasters. Therefore, it is sensible to me that we have the plane episode and that we turn another major action sequence on the notion of preventing vast devastation. On the other hand, inasmuch as I look for character development and appreciate the comic films that spend considerable time on that, I also would have liked to have seen Superman hit somebody. Seriously, considering the level of effects and the vast DC Rogues Gallery, for the next film, let’s have a villain that Superman can actually do battle with.

[I didn't mind the lack of a super-powered adversary in this one; but I agree that in the sequel we need something along the lines of Braniac, Metallo, a returned Zod, or someone of that ilk. - Finder]

[back to Brownfield review] ...The use of Richard White as a foil makes sense, but I think that Jason was wholly unnecessary. While I understand what the filmmakers were attempting to go for, all subsequent films in this continuity must now deal with the kid, and that’s frankly an albatross. You either have him onscreen and strain to keep the films from becoming “Superman and Son”, or you have to shuffle him off to boarding school or something and make the audience wonder, “Hey, where’s the kid?” Worse . . . Superman is now something of an interloper. Regardless of whether or not Jason is his kid, any move that puts him and Lois together will sunder a pre-existing family unit. Jason sees Richard as his father, and in fact calls him “Daddy”. For Lois and Superman to be together, Superman would be something of a homewrecker. And is that what you wanted to see? I’d rather see him fighting Brainiac.

In the long term, I think it’s a decent re-establishment of the franchise. There are some outstanding moments, and there are some flawed moments. I believe that it’s a good stage-setter. Next time, let’s really see Superman get to work. Preventing disasters is fine (even great), and yes, Luthor is the big, big villain. But let’s explore some other pieces of the Superman story, be they Brainiac and Kandor, Bizarro, Metallo, Doomsday, or hell, even Darkseid. And let’s spend a little more time on the actual “characters” of Superman and Clark, and what his situation means to him personally aside from the nature of his relationship with Lois. At this point, I’d classify Returns as a good start.
[end Brownfield review]

[Finder again]...although I'd say that SR was much more than merely a 'good start'. Basically, with the high quality of Batman Begins and Superman Returns, Warner Bros./DC movies are back on the map. We can look forward to Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman to complete the revived trinity of DCU biggies.

For me, Spider-Man 2 is still a better superhero movie than Superman Returns...and maybe Batman Begins is better than SR too, by a hair.
 
 
FinderWolf
04:06 / 04.07.06
>> It also reminded me why I like the Movie Superman so much more than the comic book Superman. He is, at heart, a very simple character, and the movie remembered that, making the PLOT complicated and not his reaction to it, if it makes any sense.

I think Solitaire makes an excellent point here.

Also, the point raised above about how both Donner and Singer captured the average Joe's p.o.v of Superman's rescues/feats is right on. One of the friends I saw it with mentioned this exact same thing.

I liked the moment where we see Ma Kent outside the hospital, unable to let people know that it's her boy in there.

Shot of Superman lifting up half of yacht - amazing.

Loved the scene where Parker Posey slaps and screams at Lex for actually cutting the brakes on her car (which also gave us that classic Superman first appearance cover come to life).

Kal Penn had no lines at all! He just stood around with a concerned and/or scared look on his face. I wanted him to at least say something...1 line! I didn't even see "Harold & Kumar," but I figure if you take a guy from an indie comedy and put him in a blockbuster film as a henchman, at least give him a line! (Of course, his line may have been cut in editing)
 
 
buttergun
13:01 / 05.07.06
Saw the movie with zero expectations, was very impressed. I thought the movie was fantastic. It's funny, I went to the IMDB message boards, and everyone there was bashing the film. No idea why, though their posts made them seem like fans nitpicking inconsequential things. But I was glad to find intelligent, well-written, positive reviews of the movie here on Barbelith.

One thing those IMDB'ers complained about which bugged me is the lack of action...basically, they wanted someone big for Superman to punch around. I think that would've been stupid...this movie summed up perfectly what Superman does best: saving people. Having Doomsday or Solomon Grundy running around would be foolish.

Anyway, the movie rekindled my childhood love of the original films, so I did a search and found FANTASTIC NEWS ABOUT THE DONNER CUT OF SUPERMAN II.

To make the long story in the above post short -- as most fans know, Richard Donner filmed the majority of Superman II at the same time as he filmed Superman I. Studio politics resulted in Donner eventually being fired and director Richard Lester being brought in to re-shoot the movie. Lester made the flick more slapstick (ie the super-powerful Zod running around with an M-16), and also re-filmed the material Donner had already shot. For years rumors have run rampant of how much better Donner's cut of the movie would have been, and it looks like now, finally, we'll get to see it.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:33 / 05.07.06
However, note that Donner himself is not editing this recut version; it's just from his footage and his notes. (still pretty great, though)...Donner himself recently said something along the lines of 'ah, it won't be the way I would have put it together, though the guy editing it is a friend of mine, he's a good guy, I just don't want to be involved.' and it seems like you'll have to buy the whole (expensive) 14-DVD set of all the Superman movies (not including SR, of course) to get this Donner cut.
 
 
buttergun
15:09 / 05.07.06
The link I posted above gives the impression Donner's unenthused about this "Donner Cut" of Superman 2. However, if you click on the link within that link, to the original Digital Bits article, you'll see that Donner is very enthusiastic about the release. I've also checked out the Moriarity/Donner interview on AICN. Donner's reasons for not being involved are actually well thought-out...he feels that too much time has passed since he directed the film, and that it's no longer his. Therefore, having some other guy edit the footage makes perfect sense. Using Donner's notes from the period as well as early drafts of the script, he'll be able to render a more "Donner '80" release than the Donner of today could.

I think this is similar to the restoration of Orson Welles' "Touch of Evil." And to further belabor my point, re it's better to have someone else edit the footage than the director himself...look at what the Coppolla of 2000 did to the Coppolla of '76's Apocalypse Now, with Redux...and I say this as a guy who ten years ago spent $50 on the 5-hour Workprint of Apocalypse Now, so my problem wasn't with the additional material added back in...it was with the recutting of existing scenes and also the fact that much more interesting material was in the workprint that DIDN'T make it to Redux (ie Hopper's Photojournalist character getting shotgunned to death by Scott Glenn's character Colby).

I defnitely intend to buy the 14-disc set. I mean, come on! -- A digitally-remastered Superman IV!!!!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:45 / 14.07.06
I enjoyed quite a lot of this movie at the time, but parts of it felt languid to the point of sleepiness, and afterwards I wonder if the parts I enjoyed weren't just (not that this is a terrible thing) beautifully-executed echoes of Superman moments I'd seen before.

For instance:

- the credits almost made me weepy, but this was to a great extent nostalgia rush, like a Star Wars opening crawl

- the end swoops and triumphant globe-circling, ditto, but again... ditto, haven't we seen exactly these glorious hero shots in Superman: The Movie, and similar scenes at the ends of Spider-Man and a couple of Batman flicks?

- saving the plane: a great set-piece, but I feel I partly enjoyed it because it recalled the plane rescue in JLA: Earth-Two. However, the finale, with Superman stopping it in the ball-park, was an exceptional image.

- lots of sequences where Superman's effect is felt, rather than his physical body seen ~ the runaway car suddenly soaring gently into the air, the kryptonite island suddenly rising from the sea, the trees of Central Park sighing ~ which seemed reminiscent of Superman's portrayal in Dark Knight Returns, as a streak of scarlet. Superman is seen through what he does, the way he shapes the world.

- the Saviour's Passion and Suffering scene, where Luthor's men kick him in the ribs, was powerful but again, didn't we see something very similar in either Superman or Superman II, with either Luthor hanging Kryptonite around his neck, or the Phantom Zone villains booting vulnerable Superman about, or both?

- watching the good guys close to drowning was, again, one of the emotionally more wrenching moments, but again, formed the basis of one of Superman The Movie's most painful scenes.

On the plus side, I relished and admired the way this film recreated the circa-1980 feel of the first two, really subtly through things like the details of dress and car design (or so it seemed to me; the incidental music also struck the same jaunty, jazzy spirit). It captured the spirit without risking pastiche, and Routh's emulation of (continuation of) Reeve as Clark Kent in particular was absolutely spot-on. I liked the whole light-hearted, slightly retro milieu of the press-room, the city.

In a very different way, that quasi-religious imagery of Kal-El soaking up the sun's light, giving himself up to earth's gravity, hovering over us as guardian-protector, was a visual feast.

But the only other really new element ~ son of Superman ~ just didn't click for me. I don't see how it factors in with Superman I and II (if he slept with Lois, then did General Zod happen? if those movies are canon to this one, then why is Kryptonite treated here as something to be discovered and explained?) and I don't see how it would fit in with sequels within this franchise. It had shades of Zenith's surprise son, who was bad news. I don't know... pale, straggle-haired, slightly scary super-kids take the mythos in a new direction, I suppose, but I'm just not sure how it can work.

Other little niggles: action sequences often seemed filmed in that too-close, hand-held style from Batman Begins, as if jogging the picture around an inch away from the subject = exciting immersion.

And I didn't really see that the flashback to Superboy learing to fly told us much; at the time, I didn't even clock the transition to the past until I saw that this was a younger actor. I also figured Pa Kent was still alive and just driving away from the farm on an errand, leaving Martha to do the dishes, but perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention to these early sequences.

Sorry if this post is weak and lacking in coherence; I'm putting it together between Big Brother eviction episodes.
 
 
01
20:49 / 14.07.06
Are you all on crack?

No really. Actual cooked, freebased, rock cocaine?

You all rip apart comics to big screen masterpieces like X3 like a pack of hyenas on a waterbuffalo whilst applauding steaming piles of said waterbuffalo dung ala Batman Begins and now Superman Returns. Do I live on Bizzarro world or something? Earth 2?

Stunning.

Sure this film is an epic masterpiece, a crown jewel of comic book translation to silver screen, and an overall rejeuvanation of the Superman franchise. Especially if you enjoy:

1. Boring films. What happened in this movie? Anything? Where was the action? My friend and I were pondering yesterday where the 270 milllion actually went. One decent action sequence and that's it. One.

2. Bastardizations of comics continuity. Which apparrently you do enjoy, seeing as you hailed this film as pure genius. Superbaby. How could I not see it?

3. Films that you've seen before. Superman - The Movie was a great film. Superman Returns was a light years beyond a tip of the cap to the original. It was a schlocky homage awkwardly recreating virtually every scene and plot device from the original. From the "Superman flies with Lois" scene to the Luthor property scheme plot device. Don't get me wrong. I liked all the first time.

As a kid.

In 1978.

4. Stalkers as main characters. Honestly, tell me you didn't find it downright creepy that Superman barely spoke? And what was with him always lurching around in the shadows spying on everyone all the time? What is this "One Hour Photo'?

5. Horrible miscasting. Are you telling me the best that they can do is get yet another all American girl next door and try to pawn her off as an aggressive, strong female lead? Christ... Jennifer Garner as Electra was more credible. And how old was Lois supposed to be? 21? Could she even drink legally? Did she have that kid at 16? Will her and Supes show up on Springer in the inevitable sequel? At this point you reallly just don't know...

6. ABC Afterschool Specials. The family comes together and saves the day. "Dad" flies the plane to the Kryptonite Krystal Kontinent (...which I will deal with later. Believe me.) Superbaby takes out the laughably trite bumbling henchman. And Mom keeps the ol' rag tag crew together with a stitch and a smile...

7. Campy villians. To be honest, I was never the biggest fan of Hackman's Luthor. And I hated his bumbling sidekicks Tessmacher and Otis. I recently saw Spacey on Larry King explaining how his Luthor has more dimension and is completely different.

Hey Kev, here's a newsflash for ya! I'll even put it on the CNN scrolling ticker! Your Luthor and Hackman's Luthor are EXACTLY THE SAME! That's right. They're aloof, flighty, and cartoonish.

Actually wait a second. Maybe that's not right. The Luthor on the Justice League cartoon is actually really good. Calculating. Diabolical. Manipulating. Cunning. Maybe they should've inserted him in digitally or something and saved a couple bucks on the 20-whatever million they doled out to Spacey.

8. Plots full of holes. Ok. For the four people on the planet who are unaware that Kryptonite is Superman's Achilles heel, we will establish that in the film. Even drive it home with a literal Kryptonite dagger to the ribs. But wait! Up in the sky! Something makes no sense! How does Supes land on this ridiculous Kryptonite Krystalline Kontinent, become severly drained, get his ass kicked and then manage to come back AND LIFT THE WHOLE FUCKING THING INTO SPACE? The magic of film?

The whole crystal idea was a disaster from the beginning. Just add water like you're making soup and you have new continent? What? Five year olds wouldn't even buy this schlok. Oh and the "Luthor Destroys The Train Set" scene? Is he five years old? Apparently.

And since we're on the subject of five year olds, what responsible mom (who happens to be a respected journalist) drags her kid around to dodgy situations in hopes of gettin' the scoop? And they give Britney a hard time...

9. Assanine scriptwriting. Hey why don't we base an entire story around some cutting room floor out takes of one the most lunatic actors in the history of film itself? Yes, Brando is an icon but let's call a spade a spade. The man was flat out bonkers. To base an entire script around some father-son ramblings that he probably rattled off while he was high on ether with Liza Minelli at Studio 54 probably ain't that hot of an idea to get on board with thirty years later.

10. Directors that rip your heart out. Waitaminnit! Isn't Singer supposed to be one of the good guys? Didn't he give us two outstanding X-men films? Wasn't he really the lone stand out that was able to demonstrate a successful comics to big screen adaptation keeping the essence of the books? Wasn't he supposed to spare us all the Hollywood hatchet job that so many other comic book films fall victim to?

How was this remotely a good film?
 
 
Spaniel
21:12 / 14.07.06
Well that's all of us sussed.

ALL OF US.

SUSSED!
 
  

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