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Discussion of the behaviour of Deus est Daemon Inversus [Formerly "Mordant's Personal problems in Temple"]

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21:50 / 17.05.06

or 10 times out of 11. Or do I mean 10 times out of 10?

Oh I'm all confused now. 9 times out of 11 is wrong though, I didn't mean that. You all knew what I meant though didn't you?

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:57 / 17.05.06

Right. To recap:

DEDI, I think you've misjudged the mood of Barbelith quite badly. Lots of people have given you a break, but you are relying too heavily, I think, on the idea that the comparative politeness of Barbelith when compared with the murky world of competitive being-the-Hermetic-Order-of-the-Golden-Dawn means that it can be rolled over. Either that or you genuinely believe that you're leading a popular movement, here. There was a fellow who described almost exactly your current behaviour curve, albeit slower, and ended up getting banned because Barbelith could no longer successfully integrate his behaviour into its operations. This, I'm afraid, is what will eventually happen to you, sooner or later. On current form, quite a bit sooner.

You have a chance here to apologise for your bad start and attempt to go about your business in a less attention-seeking way. You may well not get another one. So, it may be worth thinking about what Barbelith is actually worth to you.

22:09 / 17.05.06

I think the thread title should be changed. It seems unfair and insulting about Mordant, a fine mod if there ever be.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:11 / 17.05.06

Meh - it contains the intent of the thread starter. It's evidential.

22:13 / 17.05.06

The thread title's one of our lesser concerns, I think. More pressing is the fact that persistent harassment/abuse by PM has taken place - which is one of those Barbelith (and general message board) no-nos. As Haus says, DEDI has misjudged what's acceptable here, and needs to do some swift adjusting.

22:14 / 17.05.06

Maybe we could retitle this thread since clearly it's not Mordant who has the problem but the DEDI headi.

Very specific brand of misogyny surely, focusing only on mothers, as DEDI does.

Harassment and abuse are boxes determinedly ticked so far. Not holding my breath awaiting a postcard from Self Awaria though.

22:17 / 17.05.06

Oops. That's what I get for posting while watching simultaneous dvd. The argument has moved on. Evidential, I agree, ignore me.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:30 / 17.05.06

I don't know about persistant, because he did stop sending them when I told him I wasn't going to enter into any further PM conversation. However I do find it rather disturbing that when faced with what he thinks is a male interlocutor, Dedi seems to default to insulting a female relative. This is not healthy, and not very Barbelithy either.

I still hope that we can resolve this without a ban. I honestly believe that Dedi has something to offer Barbelith, in terms of specialist HCM knowledge, and I think Barbelith has a lot to offer Dedi if he'll try and meet us halfway.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

22:32 / 17.05.06

3) We move to have you booted without 2), on the grounds that your contributions to the board have been relatively few and the issues, such as they are, are reasonably clear-cut.

I like this one, Ganesh.

There are certainly many, many message boards out there where calling someone's mother a whore is a regular and even accepted practice. The "lol I am teh 733t haXX0r" places. He'd probably feel much more at home there, and I think expediting his move to a place like that is a good thing for all concerned, including DEDI himself. Harassing Mordant in PMs and clearly having not a bit of regret over it shows his true colors well enough for me.

Oh, and I probably shouldn't have called him an asshole. I certainly wasn't helping the situation any. Sorry, Barbelith.

Tryphena Absent

23:13 / 17.05.06

DEDI, a number of people spent a large amount of time trying to get you to explain why we should let you join barbelith. If you are banned now you will not be able to come back to this space with the identity that you used to join. At this point in time if you wish to continue to be a member of this message board I would advise you to apologise to Mordant for the abuse you have levelled at her and to Jake for the words you have directed to him.

You are here because we gave you the benefit of the doubt, now your behaviour suggests that the benefit be revoked. I am quite aware that you are capable of taking a step back and regarding your responses in a different light because you did that in order to enter barbelith. I suggest, politely, that you do it again and consider whether your problem is created by other people or yourself. If you want to post on barbelith it is time to think more intently about the way you talk to people online.

03:27 / 18.05.06

I'd like to take a moment to echo Jack Fear's comment regarding Ganesh being a funwrecker. Boooooo on you, Ganesh!

--------------

FWIW, I asked DEDI via PM to hold fire and have a think about a week ago. You can see how much thinking he did and how he's resolved to proceed after hir break. I'm for starting the banning discussion now, barring something constructive from DEDI. Not really in a breath-holding mood tho, TBH.

05:26 / 18.05.06

Not really in a breath-holding mood tho, TBH.

Me neither. He's proved he's a prick, and is going to refuse to engage with any attempts to talk to him sensibly, or God Forbid, acknowledge that his behaviour is in any way at fault. Can't we just ban him now without the handwringing?

05:43 / 18.05.06

Well, Mordant seems amenable to a last-ditch attempt to meet the man halfway. Doomed it may or may not be, but as the chief target of abuse here, I think we go with her suggestion. Nina seems to think DEDI's capable of self-reflection and a change in approach, so let's give him the one chance to reevaluate the situation and act accordingly.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

06:48 / 18.05.06

Mordant is a wonderful person, but in this instance I think she's being far too nice.

Why should all of Barbelith have to meet this joker "halfway?" Halfway to him is halfway too far, as far as I'm concerned. I'd have to agree with Illmatic, at the risk of having my ma called a whore again. Just ban the guy and avoid the whole, painful, drawn-out ShadowSax thing. There are scads of very nice new people on the board, and I really don't think we'll miss this character, or feel bad about kicking him to the curb.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

07:00 / 18.05.06

Well, I think this will have to be resolved soon, one way or the other. Like I say I still hope that we can sort things out without a ban, but I have to admit that it doesn't look promising right now.

What needs to happen, I think, is for Dedi to take a step back and realise that his current mode of engagement isn't working. If he feels he has a genuine grievance then this can surely be articulated without falling back on playground insults.

A good first step might be to retract and apologise for those insults, and then reframe any criticism of my moderator decisions in more neutral terms.

Ball's in your court, Dedi.

Tryphena Absent

08:21 / 18.05.06

I know that a lot of you are angry but don't you think that any attempt to ask people to rethink their actions is significantly undercut by your professions of distrust in a person immediately afterwards?

Dedi, talk to me and Mordant please.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:38 / 18.05.06

I'd suggest responding to statements rather than speculating as to emotional bases, Nina. You only know that people who have expressed their anger are angry.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:59 / 18.05.06

Might I suggest holding off on posting things in this thread for a bit until it becomes clear what, if any, DEDI's response is to what has happened thus far. I am of course, aware that I can only say this by posting here, but still...

09:04 / 18.05.06

I don't think he will respond, he'll just ignore it. This is what has happened everytime elsewhere when anyone diagrees with him.

09:09 / 18.05.06

If I were Daemon I'd be more likely to stop and think and change my behaviour when presented with coolheaded reasoned responses.
As myself I'd like it to be really clear to everyone that Daemon is responding to coolheaded reasoned responses. If he responds reasonably there's hope, if he responds abusively then it's too late IMHO but at least it can't be blamed on provocation.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:24 / 18.05.06

Surely the thread title is entirely accurate: Mordant has a problem, he posts mainly in the Temple, and he has made it personal?

Tryphena Absent

10:34 / 18.05.06

Talking about people rather than to them is not a clearheaded, reasoned response.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:48 / 18.05.06

DEDI? Ball's in your court, mate.

12:58 / 18.05.06

Talking about people rather than to them is not a clearheaded, reasoned response Anna de Logardiere

Daemon, please talk to Annna and Mordant as I feel unable to keep a clear head.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:11 / 18.05.06

I'd like to state for the record that I feel perfectly capable of keeping a clear head, and will be happy to continue to engage with this topic, when and if it restarts and in whatever form.

14:01 / 18.05.06

Why should all of Barbelith have to meet this joker "halfway?"

We don't "have to". I'm merely pointing out that Mordant - who surely has the right to feel most aggrieved in all this - has suggested that there may be some mileage in attempting to do so.

17:38 / 18.05.06

Flyboy: Surely the thread title is entirely accurate: Mordant has a problem, he posts mainly in the Temple, and he has made it personal?

While I admit that your intrepretation of the wording is accurate in a literal sense, for me, the sentence implies that within the Temple forum, Mordant is having personal (ie her own) problems and is using the Temple forum to talk about these personal problems.

Since this thread has become an area for debate on DEDI's behaviour, can we not change it to something like "Making it Personal On Barbelith: Discussion about keeping it civilized and polite"

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:41 / 18.05.06

I'd kind of like it to stay as it is. Like Haus said, evidential. Maybe change it later depending on how things work out.

Dedi? Care to contribute anything at this point?

17:44 / 18.05.06

Ah. Well, fair enough. Let us continue.

18:44 / 18.05.06

As I've said, he won't post. It's beneath him, and his exalted status as offical monkeygrinder in the order. Minimal engagement with Barbelith-as-community, minimal attempts to communicate and explain, bad temper, personal attacks ... must we tolerate him? Or do we just leave it and wait for him to spring back up again in a few weeks?

18:54 / 18.05.06

The Shadowsax thing has made me a bit impatient about these people. I suppose there's a some chance (very minimal) of him changing, but I suppose there's also a chance (more likely) of luminous pink bats flying out my arsehole. GET RID OF!

21:58 / 18.05.06

This being a relatively focussed case of abuse/harassment (as I see it), I suppose I'm taking my cue from Mordant.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

02:59 / 19.05.06

I get that, Ganesh, but what's to say he isn't going to do something similar to the next person who he feels has slighted him? Mordant is one of the nicest, most laid-back people here, and if he goes crazy on her, why wouldn't he have an even worse meltdown on someone who's a bit less tolerant?

He did call my mother a whore, too, although I called him an asshole first, so I guess that doesn't really count. It does show a glaring lack of originality in his insults, however.

05:04 / 19.05.06

Well, I care about this because I'm a Temple mod. So, Mordant - given that Dedi hasn't/won't respond - any thoughts?

05:54 / 19.05.06

Jake, we're talking here about what people have done rather than what they might do. There have been many who've targetted their ire on a single poster, for whatever reason, without necessarily having 'meltdowns' with everyone else - and, in the past, a proportion of them have managed to get beyond their awkward, embarrassing first steps on Barbelith. If there's an issue of potential here, it's whether or not DEDI has the capability to do likewise.

Illmatic, if DEDI's failing to engage here, then I guess it's going to be up to those who've been most affected by his behaviour. If people feel very strongly that he should go, then I suppose it'd be up to them to either contact Tom or maybe set a time limit for discussion of the subject (as we did with ShadowSax, with the one-week thing) and invite the community more generally to comment (and I honestly wouldn't see this as "handwringing"). This thread could be used for that discussion, as the case has been set out and linked fairly comprehensively here. If the 'aggrieved parties' don't feel strongly that DEDI should go, then it's probably best to keep this thread in mind in case the same - or similar - situation arises in the future.

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