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Discussion of the behaviour of Deus est Daemon Inversus [Formerly "Mordant's Personal problems in Temple"]

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Daemon est Deus Inversus

18:09 / 17.05.06

[moderator note - this text is quoted from Mordant Carnival, in another thread]

Now, as you point out, all this is irrelevant to the topic of the thread. Would you therefore like to take all this out of the Temple and into the Policy, please? Pretty please? Pretty please with sugar on it? If you think my conduct has been unbecoming to a moderator, please feel free to go and start a thread entitled Mordant Carnival Is A Meany PooPoo Head. Have fun. Use your crayons. Go outside the lines, even. Just take this crap out of the Temple and stop badmouthing my mum.

18:14 / 17.05.06

Personally, I think your conduct's been unbecoming to anyone, and this little development does you no favours. What point are you attempting to make here?

18:20 / 17.05.06

Copy posted from the other thread which has been modded for deletion:

Daemon est Deus Inversus
21:16 / 17.05.06
Mordant has posted this sort of crap all over the place. He suggested that it should be a thread in Policy. Enjoy. I would suggest that readers read the hexagram thread in Temple.

18:22 / 17.05.06

Cheers, Lula. This is getting confusing.

18:25 / 17.05.06

I'm assuming that, although there's no link or bolding, the initial post here is a quote from Mordant? If so, DEDI, it'd be useful for you to give some indication of what, if anything, you are attempting to say here. I'm aware that you've sent Mordant rather unsavoury - even abusive - PMs, but I'd be interested in hearing what you have to tell us.

18:26 / 17.05.06

Copy posted from the other thread which has been modded for deletion:

Ganesh
21:21 / 17.05.06
Since you've a) double-posted, and b) posted a second time on the one I haven't contributed to, here's my cut 'n' pasted comment from the other thread:

Personally, I think your conduct's been unbecoming to anyone, and this little development does you no favours. What point are you attempting to make here?

Let's hang on and see which of your two double-threads is deleted, eh?

Darque Lorde Mordant Carnival
21:23 / 17.05.06
You mean this thread, Dedi?

While you're at it, Gentle Reader, you might want to look here, here. Oh, and here.

(PS: Dedi, you might want to make it clear that your post above is cut'n'pasted from my post in the hexagram thread or people are going to get hopelessly confused.)

18:33 / 17.05.06

Other thread has been modded for deletion, as Lula says. Could we all use this one, please?

18:36 / 17.05.06

And could we get some of the backstory here? Because, so far, I'm thinking DEDI presents perhaps the most clear-cut example so far of abuse/harassment of another poster. Could either DEDI or Mordant give us some sense of the events leading up to the Hexagram thread?

18:36 / 17.05.06

Thanks Ganesh, I seconded your request to delete the other thread so it should be gone soon. I have PM'd Illmatic and asked him to repost his post here, otherwise the thread will just be full of copy-paste's from me.

18:38 / 17.05.06

There's some background in one of the other threads around here, iirc - Modertion Requests, possibly, or one of the troll-specific ones.

Hopefully, DEDI, we'll be able to sort all this out for you. By kicking you the fuck off the board. Fingers crossed.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:39 / 17.05.06

ctrl+c'd from the other thread:

You mean this thread, Dedi?

While you're at it, Gentle Reader, you might want to look here, here. Oh, and here.

Should do to be going on with.

18:44 / 17.05.06

*copied from double thread*

Mordant's first post to the thread was Well, at least the lad's on topic. 'Sorry' would be nice but for now I'll settle for useful engagement with the forum.

In what sense does this constitute posting "this sort of crap all over the Temple? Could you clarify? I consider this response remarkably forgiving bearing in mind you've sent hir personal messages insulting hir family. I might point out you've also just again called hir a "little shit". Way to go.

It seems personal insults are alright when you are doing the namecalling, but when challenged you don't wish to retract them or admit that you're behaviour may have caused ill will. Quelle surprise.

You know, no matter how much you know about ceremonial magick, basic human courtesy and politeness can go a long way.

18:46 / 17.05.06

OK, that's better. I think all the posts are here now.

DEDI, could you pleade clarify what the issue is that you wish to discuss? That way we can actually try annd engage with you on the subject. It would also be helpful to provide a summary.

Daemon est Deus Inversus

18:50 / 17.05.06

I double posted in error. Mordant, aparently, can't conduct, or participate, in a thread in Temple on the hexagram or anything else.

He threatened me with Policy. This, and the inadvertant companion thread, is the same that I would express to him or any other cheap blackmailer: "You, and the whore your mother, can do what you will." (Which is the same context in which, in a private communication, I rferred to a woman I don't even know).

18:51 / 17.05.06

Could we agree, for the purposes of this discussion, that Mordant is a "she" rather than a "he"?

18:56 / 17.05.06

Nobody threatened you with anything, Beavis. Settle down. The suggestion to take it to Policy was made so that you can pursue your allegations of Mordant's misusing moderator authority without derailing the hexagram thread any further.

18:57 / 17.05.06

Ganesh: You are a funwrecker.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:02 / 17.05.06

Ta, 'Nesh, but getting my pronoun wrong is actually the least insulting thing that Dedi has done.

Dedi, I am prepared to offer you an olive branch here. My suggesting that you take this to the Policy wasn't a threat, it was an invitation. The Policy is the place to take concerns about moderator conduct. If you honestly feel that you've been unfairly treated, this is the place to make a case for yourself.

You seem to think that my misconduct is clearly evident, but you can see from the responses here that other people don't see things the same way. Help us to help you by outlining your concerns in a calm, reasonable manner, giving links to examples where appropriate, and by being prepared to accept counterargument without reading it as attack.

19:03 / 17.05.06

Dedi, I am not your friend in this but I still think that the best advice someone could give you is to take a deep breath, step away from the keyboard and try to see past your own ego. If you let it go, it will all eventually blow over and you will be able to contribute to the Temple and the board generally. Along the way, you may be poked a little, which is the price one pays for abusive pms. At the moment, you are harassing a well respected member of Barbelith but you cannot win by becoming more agressive.

19:04 / 17.05.06

Mordant, aparently, can't conduct, or participate, in a thread in Temple on the hexagram or anything else.

Well, actually, ze's is one of the most prolific posters in The Temple for at least the last five years and I value hir opinions, experience and common sense highly. So your use of "anything else" there is wrong. I'd also question your comprehension of anything outside the narrow confines of your mastermind specialist subject, ceremonial magick.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of policy Dedi, it's not a court - it's rather a place where people debate (y'know, debate with opinions going two ways) what is/isn't wrong with Barbelith. Mordant asked you to start a thread because you appear to find hir conduct unbecoming. You've simply cut and pasted hir request without any explanation, and haven't been able to construct any kind of arguement, without becoming increasingly insulting.

Are you going to attempt to do so? Or are you simply going to continue storming around in a huff until you get banned?

19:52 / 17.05.06

Hm. DeDI has posted various bits of objectionable nonsense and called MC's mum a whore by PM. Am I missing any vital points here?

19:52 / 17.05.06

When problems like this arise on Barbelith and threads get started to deal with them, I always hold out hope that the member who's being asked to calm down and think about what they're posting actually will and 9 times out of 10 I'm left hugely disappointed.
I guess I'm just naively putting too much faith in people.

Dedi, please show me that things can change. You're really being given an opportunity here by folks that really do want to sort this out with you. They're not looking to score points, put you down or make you look foolish. They genuinely want to see this resolved.
Please don't waste the opportunity.

20:07 / 17.05.06

Fridgemagnet- that is about the size of it.

Can we have a summary for the thread please? A polite one?

Mordant, you are a shining example of tolerance and patience anybody should be proud to know.

20:20 / 17.05.06

Doglikesparky: Judging on past experience, he'll ignore it completely, turn up again in The Temple in a few days weeks when an opportunity arises to talk about ceremonial magick, get challenged about previous behaviour, throw a huge strop ... and thus the cycle continues. I'd like to be proved wrong, but .... I'd put money on it.

20:23 / 17.05.06

DEDI, I think it's really important that you say something at this point. I'm not sure if you meant the linked thread to be self-explanatory; it isn't. One needs to look at things in context and chronologically: it seems to me that the turning point in the genesis of this situation was the string of PMs you exchanged with Mordant (linked above): as far as I can tell, Mordant's being absolutely neutral with you, and you're responding with personal insult. What's your interpretation of this dialogue? What's behind your comments in those PMs?

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:23 / 17.05.06

Fridgemagnet- that is about the size of it.

Well, this situation originated with attempts to persuade DEDI to stop posting at best tangential material to threads with an advert for his branch of the Golden Dawn - membership $100. That was a bit of an issue. He got a bit unhappy about that and the rest, as they say, is history.

20:39 / 17.05.06

Daehkcid est Dickhead Inversus, objecting to Mordant's objection to the attack on her mother, also came out with this little gem:

Mordant tried to revive private correspondence in which I called his mother a whore, which he (and it does seem that he has very little respect for her to have done so) published and re-published

Respect. Right. DeDI, meet my mate ShadowSax...

20:42 / 17.05.06

Haus: Ah, thank you. Well, things just get better and better, don't they?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

20:43 / 17.05.06

More links, just for clarity:

Here is the flash point. Two-year-old thread bumped to plug Dedi's group. Despite the issue of the sign-up fee, I left the post unaltered. Pointed out that this sort of thing is against board etiquette and reminded Dedi that he'd already put his foot in it in the Feninism 101 thread. Shouting. Threadlock.

Then we get this, which looks like a protest against the previous comments, and a link to the old thread. Same sort of thing here.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

21:26 / 17.05.06

Hopefully, DEDI, we'll be able to sort all this out for you. By kicking you the fuck off the board. Fingers crossed.

That about sums it up for me.

Mordant: You are a saint, and possibly the most patient person to ever walk the earth.

DEDI: You are a prick. Do us all a favor and take your order and your law degree somewhere else.

Daemon est Deus Inversus

21:39 / 17.05.06

I'll be kicked off after the whore your mother, Jake.

21:40 / 17.05.06

Well, let's hold out the faintest of hopes that DEDI can take a step back, self-reflect and reframe the situation, shall we? It could happen.

21:41 / 17.05.06

Ah. If we'd but cross-posted, my last contribution would've been all the more poignant...

21:46 / 17.05.06

Oh indeed.

Well for me, that's 9 times out of 11 now.

21:50 / 17.05.06

DEDI, I can see three options at this point:

1) You stop suggesting that other posters' mothers are prostitutes, take a little time away from the board if necessary, and seriously rethink your mode of engagement with Barbelith - if you're able to do that. I understand that you're on the defensive right now, but further posting of the "your mother's a whore" variety isn't helping.

2) We expend time and energy putting the case for and against booting you off the board, and have a community-wide discussion. You haven't posted a great deal, so this may not take terribly long.

or

3) We move to have you booted without 2), on the grounds that your contributions to the board have been relatively few and the issues, such as they are, are reasonably clear-cut.

Which is it to be?

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