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Lesser Hexagram Ritual - time for a revision?

 
  

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Daemon est Deus Inversus
15:20 / 17.05.06
Can we get back on track: 1) there haven't been more than half a dozen literate posts on the first theory presented; 2) Mordant tried to revive private correspondence in which I called his mother a whore, which he (and it does seem that he has very little respect for her to have done so) published and re-published (whenever I posted anywhere) all over the place; 3) I gave him as much of an apology as I could: to wit, the comment on a woman I don't know was inappropriate, but I deal with little shits as I will; 4) Haus made a prior comment- early on in this thread- that a post which took me 10 minutes to write more than compensated for my calling Mordant's mother a whore; 5) Mordant persisted.

If anyone, rather than tacking on the hexagram/enneagram theme of this thread, wants
to start a thread on AKW, I'm game.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:54 / 17.05.06
Mordant tried to revive private correspondence in which I called his mother a whore,

No I didn't.

which he (and it does seem that he has very little respect for her to have done so)

I see. So ignoring insults aimed at my mother denotes respect for her, does it?

published and re-published (whenever I posted anywhere) all over the place

Examples, please. I believe I only quoted your PMs in one thread, after recieving your permission to do so.

I gave him as much of an apology as I could: to wit, the comment on a woman I don't know was inappropriate, but I deal with little shits as I will;

At no point did you say that your comment was inappropriate. (PS: you have just insulted me again. It's not a very clever insult but as it represents a step up from "your mum" I'll let it go.)

Haus made a prior comment- early on in this thread- that a post which took me 10 minutes to write more than compensated for my calling Mordant's mother a whore

Yeah, Haus was mocking you for your pointless attack on a member of my family. Naughty old Haus. By the way, thank you for re-iterating that unprovoked attack on a woman you've never met.

Mordant persisted.

I said that sorry would be nice but that I'd settle for you staying on topic. It appears that you can't even provide one out of two, which is a bit of a disappointment.

Now, as you point out, all this is irrelevant to the topic of the thread. Would you therefore like to take all this out of the Temple and into the Policy, please? Pretty please? Pretty please with sugar on it? If you think my conduct has been unbecoming to a moderator, please feel free to go and start a thread entitled Mordant Carnival Is A Meany PooPoo Head. Have fun. Use your crayons. Go outside the lines, even. Just take this crap out of the Temple and stop badmouthing my mum.
 
 
Quantum
16:27 / 17.05.06
2nd that. Stop the rot. Go to policy if you dare.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
18:05 / 17.05.06
You two have just proved my point.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
18:18 / 17.05.06
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/24761#post588107
 
 
illmatic
18:38 / 17.05.06
You two have just proved my point.

In what way? We had this answer in the Political Correctness thread in Headshop, didn't we? Do you keep it saved it saved in a special file for whenever you find arguement difficult?

Dedi, you're wrong actually.

Proved my point

Dedi, actually, I think .....

Proved my point

Dedi, why did you call my mum a whore?

Proved my point

It'd get a little tiresome surely?

I have an idea for a thread called something like Why does an interest in Ceremonial Magick often equate with Pomposity and a lack of self-awareness?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:54 / 17.05.06
Okay, people, we now have a superabundance of Policy threads on this trainwreck. I appreciate the support but I'd appreciate a return to the topic too.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
18:58 / 17.05.06
To which thread, or to any other in Temple, you are incapable of contributing a thought.
 
 
illmatic
19:00 / 17.05.06
That is so fucking wrong it's unbelievable. Let's have this out in Policy, eh? We can debate this later if need be.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:47 / 17.05.06
To be fair, I'm genuinely not capable of contributing anything very meaty to this thread because I'm not terribly well-versed in HCM. I've never claimed to be. However, a moderator's duties can also include trying to keep threads on topic, and discouraging the kinds of posts that obstruct useful discussion. That's true even when the subject matter of a particular thread is outside my area of experience.
 
 
Quantum
20:14 / 17.05.06
Let's take it from here about the hexagram as I'd be interested in some clarification of what that all means, and perhaps someone could describe the ritual and it's context for the lay reader?
 
 
LVX23
20:15 / 17.05.06
dedi wrote:
Can we get back on track:

Um, gee, yeah thanks for getting us back on track there, mate.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
21:34 / 17.05.06
Would you like to start LVX23?
 
 
Quantum
22:29 / 17.05.06
LVX23, just the fellow- The number six represents the initial re-union of the personal sun with the planetary sun of the universal self. Would you enlarge on that? And could you describe the ritual briefly for those readers (including me) not very familiar with it?
 
 
illmatic
08:27 / 18.05.06
Would you like to start LVX23?

But why would he? Why would anyone? Communication requires goodwill, and given that you’ve gone out your way to squander goodwill, and be insulting, why should anyone want to engage with you? Because you have the annals of the Golden Dawn down parrot fashion? Because you have a lot of dull book learning based on dead men’s rituals?

Personally, I don’t feel that’s not enough to make people here want to engage with you. A few basic skills are necesary for good communication - being able to admit error, realising the ability to apologise is a strength not a weakness, a sense of humour, curiosity about others, not taking criticism as personal attack etc etc. Lack of these qualities = lack of meaningful communication. You reap what you sow.

Currently you are functioning as the worst possible advert for your system and your organisation. All that learning and the sum result is - zero self awareness.
 
 
Lord Switch
08:39 / 18.05.06
The analysis of the keyword ties i with the zodiacal energies involved.

If you imagine the zodiac wheel behind the magus as he does the traditional signs
L V X see where his arms are landing. Those signs are invoked.

Also

INRI starts and ends with yod, the seed the spark, showing the cyclical nature of the Osirian magick.

The beginning is a prayer. when raising the arms to call upon IAO one stands in the atitude of apofis. symbolically being filled up by the divine light that one is then destroying inside ones body throughs ones sacrifice (the time it takes to do the rite) in order to get something new out of it.

The keyword INRI has/had been analysed differently by many different orders, but what the GD did was to explain their entire magickal outlook through it.
isis the mother creates X
Apofis, the magus destroys by alkemi
osiris the new X rises from the magus in teh shape the magus whilst it.


A final thing to consider is that when analysing, the magus all in all makes three L´s with correspond to Light life and love. One of the reasons Crowley changed the analysis was to add libery, and the secret Horusian formula of the light.
 
 
LVX23
08:47 / 18.05.06
Feeling a bit dull and jet-lagged at the moment so here are some sources:

From Notes:

"Part of the significance of the relationship between the Hexagram and the Elements come from the fact that the symbol being used is a hexagram, or the symbol of the Sun. Not only is the Sun used as the great equalizing power in the Solar system, in relationship to the other planets, but it is also the source of matter in the solar system.

All matter, esoterically, and possibly exoterically, is a result of the condensing of solar energy. This energy condenses in stages, represented by the Elements themselves. From Fire, to Air, Water, and finally solid matter, or Earth.

Thus, through the Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram, we can access Solar power in all of its various manifestations."

And here's the GD ritual and the Crowley ritual.
 
 
LVX23
08:54 / 18.05.06
Thanks Lord. I would add that in the Crowleyan forumulation of IAO the copulation and resultant orgasmic annihilation of Osirus and Isis produces the child Horus and his Sister (Ma'at?). Thus Yod Heh Vau Heh.
 
 
Lord Switch
09:20 / 18.05.06
I forget one little thing as well.

when drawing the hexagrams in the lesser rite, one moves clockwise and draws hexagrams using various versions

east 2 points up fire
south normal hexagram earth
west a diamond shape air
north an hourglass shape water

We start with fire. with yod. (and by assocation, virgo).
Then we move to the bride, earth, Heh final
then on to the son, Vau,
on to the mother, vater heh and return to Yod
We describe the YHVH cycle, substituting the Mother with the bride. Symbolising the marriage of the highest to the lowest.

The ritual seen from above counterclockwise has another funny little element, usng the usual flyffy logic within symbolsystems:

Yod, the eastern hexagram is virgo.
the northern hexagram is the Mother, the great virgin-whore. the letter is Heh. the aspiration
The next one is Air in the west, the son, the letter is vav, giving rise to the final Heh in south, earth the bride. Vav= taurus.

------------------------
a final note though.

The ceremonial magick rituals as described by the GD etc are a closed system. They work and do what they do because of the suspension of disbelief and because, within context, they represent a unified whole paradigm to work by.
By taking the rituals out of their initiatory context and reworking them, one has stopped performing the magick of the gd and is doing chaosmagick/ones own personal system with a ceremonial magickal bent/symbolism. Nothing wrong with that, but its two different approaches
 
 
illmatic
09:25 / 18.05.06
A question I’m interested in here (part voiced in my criticism of Dedi) is to what degree can the repetition of these forms become personally relevant? In repeating some gestures/visualisation/words first put on paper 100+ years ago is there not a danger that you’re just repeating a “dead form”, something without much connection to one’s life or personal experience outside the ritual space? I can understand the fun of all the scholarship etc but I wonder – what actual experiential impact does this stuff have? Also, to what degree is there room in these forms for personalisation and creativity? I’d like some experiential, not scholarly answers, if people are able to give them.

(LS - I was wriitng the above offline and have just seen your post above. You part answer my questions, but i'd be interestedin any further response. Ta).
 
 
Lord Switch
09:28 / 18.05.06
LVX

I would like to point out 2 other important things before I head out

1
In thelemic magic the formulua is
Iachus Asi Orus, to symbolise the male seed, female womb and the ever growing child. Thus not working with the symbolism of sacrifice.

2
Please do not believe the evil internet all the time
The star ruby star saphire and liber reguli are NOT thelemic versions of the traditional rituals.
For one, they are N.O.X. rituals, and that means that you should reach a minimum of tiphareth before performing them. Also, and more imortantly, they are sexmagickal rituals veiled in ceremonial symbolism.

The star saphire being the physical, actual ritual that the Gniostic catholic mass does through symbol.
 
 
LVX23
11:11 / 18.05.06
Indeed, the formula is not of sacrifice but regeneration, as is the revelation of the Aeon.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:36 / 18.05.06
For one, they are N.O.X. rituals, and that means that you should reach a minimum of tiphareth before performing them.

I'm not sure about that. Care to expand and justify that statement?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:28 / 18.05.06
Also, to what degree is there room in these forms for personalisation and creativity? I’d like some experiential, not scholarly answers, if people are able to give them.

Why do you speak of personal experience and creativity?

We are talking about actual ritual.
 
 
Quantum
13:30 / 18.05.06
I'm pretty familiar with the hexagram symbolism (I have a seal of Solomon tattoo) but not the GD or Crowley ritual, I'll look them up in the shop. Is there a Lunar ritual equivalent?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:42 / 18.05.06
I’ve got a more sensible answer to that. I really like the Golden Dawn and A.’.A.’. stuff and there is loads of room for personalising it and bringing creativity to it, without changing the outward form of the rituals or attempting to rewrite the Qabala just for the sake of it. Mine is a weird, hoodoo versioning of western magic. I don’t change the form of the rituals, if I break out the LBRP or the hexagrams or the Rose Cross, I do so in the classical form. But what the individual gestures and words, symbols and actions of those rituals mean to me changes and develops all the time. The more I do those rites, the deeper my understanding of them grows. I keep the Voodoo and the western gear separate. I’m not into calling on the Lwa instead of the Archangels at the quarters or anything superficial like that. But there is a constant interplay and feedback between the two practices that deepens my personal understanding of the mysteries behind both ways of describing the universe. The creativity and personalisation doesn’t so much occur in the theatre of ritual itself, so much as in how you personally respond to that theatre and what it means to you.
 
 
rising and revolving
13:58 / 18.05.06
Illmatic, thanks for the questions. They begin driving things in directions I find much more interesting from a personal perspective. This is the direction I was hoping this was going to go - experience over book learning. After all, that's the point of Barbelith isn't it?

So - to run the questions in reverse, first off personalisation. To me, this is the hidden secret of Thelema that acts as the key to the G.D. - by looking at what Crowley modified, you gain an understanding not of "The right way to do things in the new aeon," but of what can be changed. In short, a lot. If you actually understand the system and don't begin to personalise it on the basis of your own understanding then you've not really doing the Golden Dawn. You're emulating old dead peoples work, not doing your own (not old dead men, exclusively. A lot of strong women have shaped the G.D.)

No key adept of the traditional G.D. failed to write their own papers and make their own contributions. It's the job of an adept. These papers are variable in quality, with good reason. Adepts ain't perfect - they have their own understandings, and in some cases these supercede or contradict the understandings of other adepts.

Ask Zalewski and he'll tell you it's not GD without the classic Egyptian god-forms. Ask Yeats and he'll tell you the Celtic ones work for him. The more G.D. papers you read the more you understand it's got very little actual set in stone 'content' - it's merely a framework. Different people have different understandings and THAT'S OK. Distrust anyone who tells you there's a "right answer" because there's not - there's only your answer, today.

So, back to the start of the question - what's the actual impact of doing these old rituals? Do you risk just parroting old traditions that have no gut impact? Perhaps. My experience has been different, however. Over the course of doing the LBRP, I started (as pretty much everyone does, I imagine) waving my hands around, being unsure as to what I was doing and making funny sounds.

However, time and persistance reaped their rewards - and I'm not even sure why I gave it the time and persistance, to be frank. In time, I began to feel my hands guided. Forceful gestures became softer, yet more centered. My hands had no option but to be in the position that was correct. Something began to flow, and as it flowed it changed my shapes so that it could flow more easily. Like the pressure of water pushing a fire-hose into a solid tube - my vibration changed pitch, timbre, resonance.

Over time, other voices raised with mine when I vibrated. My visualisations became clearer. I began to feel the connection with the thousands of other people who had performed this ritual, in different times and spaces. The archangels at the quarters offer me advice, when I'm receptive enough to listen - advice that has helped change my life. More so than if I'd simply meditated daily? Possibly not - differently, though. I've begun to develop a living relationship with the magic I do - it's not something that remains in my ritual space, it's something that comes with me.

By working on something in my space, I can isolate it. Cease the million chattering thoughts in my mind and bring my will to bear upon a single thing - for example, asking Gabriel why my finances are so fucked. For which I got a pretty quick solution (it came down to fear, as it always seems to). Ritual performance has shown me how easy it is to change your life by simply changing your life. Along with how hard it is to 'simply' change your life.

I feel like it's given me tools to approach my day to day life that act as external levers. Like a flatlander, trapped in a circle I now have a way to step over the edge. To me, that's my (current) understanding of the macrocosm and the microcosm. As in my ritual space, so in my life. One is a tool to understand the other (and vice versa) and if it's not, it's not very good.

Bit long. Bit rambly. But a start.
 
 
illmatic
14:05 / 18.05.06
Bit long. Bit rambly. But a start.

Not at all. That's an absolute fantastic response, thank you. Same to Gypsy.

I haven't worked extensively with the Western mysteries, but I may attempt to write something related from the traditions I have worked within over the next few days. I've found, if not personalisation, as in adapting and changing, but filling with experiential content, making the connection between life and work, absolutely key. Great responses! Any more?
 
 
illmatic
14:23 / 18.05.06
Very inspiring, I might add.

Despite my disdain for a certain poster in this thread (it’s that failure to connect scholarship with experience, I think – plus throwing his elemental weapons out the pram), I think book larnin’ can be great, don’t get me wrong. It can provide great understanding and insight. I value my own reading tremendously. It's just that it can become a bit "dead" if you don't watch out.
 
 
Quantum
16:34 / 18.05.06
Tru dat (about dead ritual) IMHO the meaning and vibrancy of ritual is crucial, the distinction is like reciting a script badly and saying something you mean.
I've often thought the GD are sometimes misrepresented as dogmatic and rigid, when it was a living tradition that synthesised loads of disparate stuff, and for some (many?) is still dynamic and personal. It seems to me it's a framework or a language to express your path in, which is my view of most traditions.
Gypsy's post made me think of that too, you can say something in French or Mandarin (f'rexample) but mixing the two results in barely intelligible pidgin. Bilingual is different to mashing two languages together.
 
 
Lord Switch
16:52 / 18.05.06
Regarding the Nox-ness of certain thelemic rituals

Star saphire: You do the nox signs
Star ruby: you do the nox signs
Liber reguli you draw the pentagrams upside down. The only place you can do that from is from the sun, looking down at creation.


Regarding the sexmagickal nature of these rituals, without oathbreaking:

Its in the text if one cares to translate the greek to english.

"Soi o phalle ischuros eucharistos"
means Unto the mighty fallos be the powerfull eucharist.

That stament (and similar ones inthe other thelemic rites) along with certain spermo-gnostic and secret sexmagickal techniques (secret? 100 years ago...) of certain groups Crowley was working with makes it clearly visible what is actually going on.

I have seen many a thelemite claim Ruby and saphire as the thelemic equivalent of the older rites. No Thelemite I know worth their practical practical magickal skills agrees. And that goes across the board from GD-OTO, IOT/AA TOTO/Voddoo etc people.

I can post the analysis of the rituals if people want, they are lengthy though.
---------------------
Adepts doing their own thing in the GD
Yes, that is true but what one needs to keep in mind is that in order to get to the portal you need to be fully versed in the symbolism and meaning of the orders system.
each and every adept will have hir take on the subject, but there will not be a huge amount of difference.

Naturally, the GD system is not just a set of rituals. allready in the 3=8 you should be able to write your own rituals. __based__ on the previous ones.
The whole point of the system is to surpass tools anyway.
I digress.

There is a difference between the GD system being maleable for its adepts, Crowleys approach to ceremonial magick and just mucking about with rites.

When looked into one can clearly see that the AA system is almost Chaosmagick-metaparadigm using a ceremonial magick tunel.
Whilst the GD is a ritual-magickal paradigm that in later stages allows for personalisatio
 
 
rising and revolving
19:07 / 18.05.06
"When looked into one can clearly see that the AA system is almost Chaosmagick-metaparadigm using a ceremonial magick tunel.
Whilst the GD is a ritual-magickal paradigm that in later stages allows for personalisatio "

Arse. Barbelith ate my previous response to this - in short, the GD is clearly a metaparadigm - it absorbs other paradigms, and in fact that's how it was created. The Tattwas are different to Enochian - but both co-exist as parts of the GD.

That said, I do think there's an argument to made that it's not a chaotic metaparadigm. It's effectively a map to which other paradigms can be attached - provided they share one existing characteristic. So, it's not the full blown chaos style "all maps are false" as much as it is "Here's a map. Other maps attach to it. Ultimately, all things lead to all things," perspective.

The difference, perhaps, between a paradigm that does away with paradigms versus one that assimilates them.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:47 / 19.05.06
Lord Switch: Yeah, I wasn't really questioning that side of things. I've never really been sold on the idea of the Star Ruby/Star Sapphire as "Thelemic" versions of the LBRP/Hexagram at anything more than a very, very superficial level. They just don't operate in the same way. Star Ruby does not do anything like the same thing as the LBRP, and the idea of substituting one for the other just feels fundamentally wrong.

Likewise, I get how they are NOX rites, and how they are sex magic formulas encoded in ceremonial guise. All clear on that front. The bit that sticks in my teeth a little is the notion that they shouldn't be attempted until you have "attained Tiphareth". It mostly bothers me because the issue of attaining grades seems to me to be a fairly slippery concept, even within the structure of ceremonial magic and formal initiatory orders, let alone when you factor in the 21st century landscape of magic where people may have attained a degree of magical "adepthood" outwith the structures of western magic.

How does a statement like that hold water? Would you argue that the Star Ruby, et al, should not be attempted by anyone who has not progressed through the grades of the GD or A.'.A.'. to the level of Adept and attained knowledge and conversation of the HGA? Do you think that the fundamental magic behind the formal structures of these orders is universal - essentially just a map to the territory of adepthood in its largest sense; or do you see this magic as something specific to the GD/AA/and western magic orders - a closed system, the results of which can only be attained by progress within the specific context of those structures?

This is almost certainly fuel for a separate thread, but to cut to the chase and tie this back to the topic at hand: When you talk about the attainment of Tiphareth as a pre-requisite for performing the Star Ruby/Star Sapphire - what exactly do you mean and why? I'm not necessarily disputing your statement, I'd just like a bit of clarification as to where you are coming from and the reasons behind your thinking. I'm "cross-training" in western magic at the moment and its really valuable to have dialogue with people who know their stuff on that side of things.
 
 
Lord Switch
09:47 / 19.05.06
Aha, ok got your question more clearly now
The kind of thing that happens when english isn´t ones first language

When I say attain tiphareth, I mean it from a variety of contexts.

1
Naturally, there is the fact that when working withing the closed system of say AA or GD or martinism et al, it is a fairly good idea to stick to the system itself, within context. Don´t do rituals that you havent been given. follow the system, of leave the group and do your own thing

Say, someone is a santeria practitioner and is very very good at making talismans(the equivalent). Then that same person starts doing GD in a formal structure, it is better to wait to do GD talismans untill the system one works within formally approves it.
Does that make sense?
Basically nothing is true everything is permitted, but when using a set paradigm, it is usefull to stick to its rules.

2
Tiphareth is not a grade as such. it is a state of mind. What I mean is that I am very dubious that one can properly work the NOX formula, without having attained solar consciousness. Of course you don´t have to have reached the name of the degree in a formal system. its just the "level" one needs to be at.
In some martial arts the different belts have new moves and throws asociated with them. In judo, one doesnt even start Kata untill the black belt, because the level of control needed is seldom present in less experienced people.

Anyone who has fully mastered their elemental self and have a clear line of communication with the deep mind, hga or whatever can Work NOX formulae properly. Otherwise it is just another LVX ritual with different names.
meditate for years. Do ritual magick. master your body, go to good therapy untill 3 of 5 psychiatrists say you´re absolutely fine. Whatever. Thats when NOX can be worked. Even if you don´t accept kabbalah in your system, what tiphareth symbolizes is the important thing.
Having become a complete master and ruler of your microcosmos to the level where you can almost swap places with the higher. No hangups. Spells work 100% of the time. you Know yourself fully and you have become all that you can be.


as a result of this, my 3rd comment:

3 NOX as a concept is very strongly connected to the western hermetic tradition (thanx to GD) in the same way as LUX is. We can always draw parallels from system to system, but the point of the matter is that LVX is the "visible" light emanating from god, visible to us becasue of Tiphareth. Beyond Tiphareth, across the abyss is where the light is "black".
"Lord of light lord of darkness."
NOX is a step up from LVX magick.
LVX interacts with and shapes creation.
Nox signifies creation itself. its one step up.

Too tie things up:
The "point" of the star ruby, star saphire and Reguli are various formulae to jump the abyss.
The LBRP is meant to raise the consciousness of the adept to the instersection between samech and peh

The star saphire is meant to raise the consciousness to Daleth, and Gimmel...

With a physical example: LBRP is the equivalent of a lame person trying to regain movement.
Star ruby is the equivalent of the lame person doing russian balett.
Its easier to first learn to move and then leran balet, then doing balet wthout being able to even move, no?

I would think that in voodou/santeria terms LVX is akin to the usual work woth loa and saints. Nox is that you actually start creating Loa and saints etc
********

Naturally, Gypsy, you are right. Todays society magick available makes it easier for anyone to actually get to the point where one has "attained" tiphareth. But easier does not mean automatic.

Hope I´m not cluttering the board. I seldom post, but ´this topic interested me
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:36 / 19.05.06
Hope I´m not cluttering the board. I seldom post, but ´this topic interested me

Post more! This is all great stuff!

Thanks for elaborating on that. I see what you mean now. It's not so much that a person who isn't established in Tiphareth should not attempt the Star Ruby. More that you cannot really work it properly until you have put various other things in place first. Like a martial arts technique that is best taught after you've got a certain amount of basic fundamentals down.

To tie this into experiential stuff. I can perform the Star Ruby and feel it working and doing what it does, but I instinctively know that it's not really something all that applicable to me right now. I get a sense that, in my exploration of western magic, there's a whole load of other pieces that I ought to focus on putting into place first before things like the Star Ruby and Star Sapphire will be all that relevant to me.

I can grasp what they do, and have a good feel for the sort of magic they tap, just by extrapolating from my wider experience of magic and existing knowledge base. I'm astute enough to get it and tap it to an extent, but it's a bit pointless to do so because I'm not going to get the most out of it or be able to do it at full capacity without having better established other parts of that system within myself as a prerequisite.

To take up the cross training analogy again, it's like the Star Ruby is a difficult chokehold in Brazilian Ju-Jitsu. My background in a different martial art allows me to see what it's doing and the body mechanics that it's using. I can probably fudge it to a certain extent, but to be able to accomplish it effortlessly and really make full use of it, I will need to get all the basics of the BJJ system down first because they are the building blocks that lead to it.

That's all sorted in my head now. Thanks.

I would think that in voodou/santeria terms LVX is akin to the usual work woth loa and saints. Nox is that you actually start creating Loa and saints etc

Not sure about this part of your analogy. I don't think a person can create Lwa. New Lwa can come into being, and do so all the time, but it is more as a result of a cultural process, a response to a changing world, than it is something that an individual creates off their own bat - regardless of how initiated they are.
 
  

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