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Lesser Hexagram Ritual - time for a revision?

 
  

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rising and revolving
16:54 / 02.05.06
Here's the thing, the Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram, like the rest of the Golden Dawn stuff, was written Back In The Day when we foolish mortals only knew about six planets. There are nine now, maybe more.

I find this an interesting topic. The six planet system (7, including the sun) is the one I use personally, and the logic behind it is something I'm interested in exploring.

I tend to classify systems numerically and cross convert between them. Therefore my stack hold

1 - Singularity systems. The one godhead, from which all flows.
2 - Duality. Polarity. Ebb and Flow. Darkness and Light.
3 - Triads. Birth of the child. Trinity. Supernals. Sulfer, Mercury, Salt. Passive, Negative, and the One that Reconciles.
4 - Elements. Seasons. The Four Letters of the Name. Four Worlds.
5 - Pentad. Four Elements Reconciled by Spirit. The Pentagram.
6 - Hexagram. The Triad and Duad united (2x3=6). Utilising the center, this becomes a balanced glyph for 7 systems.
7 - Planetary forces (Old system).
8 - Enochian.
9 - Planetary forces (New system?)
10 - Fingers. Decimal. Tree of Life.

And so on and so forth.

Anyhow, my point is that (from my experience, in my work) the numerical system is key to understanding the interactions. So a 7 system and a 9 system are different beasts, regardless of how you assign names to them.

In much the same way, I find that while you can cross-reference between Sulfer and the Yod of YHVH there's as much lost in the comparison as gained.

Sooo ... for me, the LHR is a tool for working with the universes essential 6/7 nature. Just like the BRP is a tool for working with its 4/5 nature.

Adding the extra planets defeats the purpose - HOWEVER, I don't see any problem with formulating ritual to address the 9 nature of things. I'm not even sure planets are the best thing to use, these days. We don't pay much attention the celestial sphere. Heck, if we live in urban areas we can barely see it.

The reason these forces are assigned to planets is because they were a nightly reminder of the seven things. Today, that's not as true.

Anyhow, some rambling thoughts. Anyone else have a take on this? Anyone used a 9 planet system for anything[1]?

[1] I have in astological readings, but even then I don't give it a huge amount of weight...
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
02:54 / 07.05.06
Most people consider Neptune and Herschel generational planets; and, at any rate, their influence was traditionally considered similar to that of the Nodes of the Moon. (These planets were known in the 19th-century. Mathers didn't factor them in much since he drew a paralel between them and the Nodes).

Still, I admit that they were not known at the 1777 reformation of the Gold und Rosenkreutz Order (from which these materials derived). However, no attempt was made to incorporate them incorporate in the Hexagram ritual in the 19th-century. Why should they be?

Theoretically, as you point out, there may be many more than 9 planets. One has to limit the function at some point. The last two are, as mentioned, generational planets whose influence can be factored out.

Five planets and two luminaries correspond to seven Sephiroth in Assiah. The hexagram ritual is linked to the formula of ARARITA. There are four forms of the hexagram corresponding to the elements. From them, we derive seveb planetary GIRHs tied to seven Enochian calls. Moreover, the hexagram has an important alchemical significance tied to the fixation of the volatile; and the volitization of the fixed. If we were to add two planets, we would have, beyond the hexagram ritual, have to change the design of the Rose Cross itself; and thus, the way we draw non-Kameotic sigils. Our entire system is based on three Mother letters; seven Double (corresponding to five planets and two luminaries; and twelve sigle. Perhaps, our entire magical Universe is centered on the formulas Aquarius(Saturn)-Pisces(Jupiter)-Aries(Mars)-Taurus(Venus)=Cancer (Luna); and Leo(Sol)= Virgo(Mercury)-Libra(Venus)-Scorpio(Mars)-Sagittarius(Jupiter)-Capricorn(Saturn). (In this contest, return to what I said about volitization and fixation; and notice the Sephirotic order of the planets).

Let's let alone the suitability, or rather unsuitability (nine is a fundamentally unstable number), of the Enneagram as the central Macrocosmic figure of our system (replacing the hexagram). We would have to re-define our entire Universe (or, at least our conception of it). This would require that the entire system (not just the hexagram ritual be re-designed). In fact, as four of the seven traditional planets (Mars, Luna, Mercury, Saturn- see in this respect the Greek Cubical Cross) are closely tied to elements, we would conceivably- if we added planets to the Macrocosmic formula, have to add elements to the Microcosmic formula (thereby having to through out the pentagram as well.

Unless there is a very, very good reason for re-defining our Universe, it makes about as much sense as arbitrarily deciding to throw out a numerical system based on powers of 10 with one based on, arguendo, 11 or 17. We would, in the process, lose, not gain, information (the underlying realities, of course, would not change).
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
02:58 / 07.05.06
There are four minor typos, errata in this that I counted (rather quickly). Still, they don't change the meaning; and I tend to type rapidly.
 
 
pony
21:07 / 08.05.06
daemon, i know this has been addressed by others, but:

you obviously have some interesting things to contribute, but i really think that it would sit better with many if you didn't come across as so smug and pedantic... i mean, the original post is all fine and good, but is word-choice like "arguendo" and posts to point out your awareness of typos really necessary? i really dread reading your posts because of their tone, which is unfortunate because they really do seem informative.

i mainly lurk on barbelith as a whole, but i think that i've seen enough of your posts to feel confortable making this sort of request of you. you have enough knowledge (or researching skills...) to not be summarily dismissed as a spamming jackass, but the way you carry yourself isn't really helping (also, i know you think you're presenting yourself acceptably, but you might consider that the court of public opinion around here really does usually have a point).
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
21:14 / 08.05.06
Is there a Pro-Chupacabra League? That might be interesting.
 
 
LVX23
05:21 / 09.05.06
It's important to understand that the LRH is not just a rite to the six planets of antiquity.

The ritual is considered planetary magick for it's attributions to the planets but also because it occurs within the macrocosm, as opposed to the microcosmic operation of the LRP. Consider the glyph of the hexagram as two interpenetrating triangles whose center is at Tipareth, the Heart. The number six represents the initial re-union of the personal sun with the planetary sun of the universal self. In Thelemic terms this can be considered as the first contact with the Holy Guardian Angel (one concordance of the sixth sphere is the figure of the Christos). It can also be summarized in the notion of balancing the spheres around Tipareth - IE getting your shit together before you can face your higher self.
 
 
LVX23
05:24 / 09.05.06
In other words, astrological signifance is more a property of self than of the firmament.
 
 
illmatic
08:55 / 09.05.06
Dedi, if you want to edit your typos, do so, dude. Just click on edit post. It needs moderator approval so may take a while (ie a day or so) to go through.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:53 / 09.05.06
What Dedi and LVX23 said.

Whilst we're on the subject, does anyone fancy expounding - preferably in an interesting, lucid and non-pompous manner... - on the analysis of the key word bit? I'm not looking for anything in particular, just interested in people's responses to it and thoughts around it.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
12:33 / 09.05.06
Shouldn't AKW, with perhaps a few points for discussion in the description, constitute a new, distinct thread?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:40 / 09.05.06
Maybe... Although it's a component of the Hexagram rite, amongst other things, so perhaps not too out of place here. I really liked your response above, by the way.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:49 / 09.05.06
Agreed. I for one think it more than makes up for calling Mordant Carnival's mother a whore. Well done you!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:11 / 09.05.06
Well, at least the lad's on topic. 'Sorry' would be nice but for now I'll settle for useful engagement with the forum.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
14:39 / 10.05.06
I don't know Mordant's mother. Therefore, my comment reflects upon me. However, when provoked (as these two did), and you can take as that you will, I tend to react.

Lord Roseberry's comment to an impertinent youth: "I have always loved a womanly woman, and can admire a manly man, but I cannot stand a boyly boy."
 
 
Quantum
16:09 / 10.05.06
my comment reflects upon me

Indeed it does.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:38 / 12.05.06
I'm terribly sorry that you feel you were provoked, DEDI. I thought I merely drew your attention to a couple of points of board etiquette, but perhaps I am misremembering and what I actually did was randomly insult a member of your family.
 
 
Anthony
16:18 / 13.05.06
it's a decent ritual for centring and harmonising. as long as one wants to stay in Tiphareth, and it never harms to go back there after one crosses. but of course, do whatever suits you.
 
 
Anthony
16:45 / 13.05.06
why not a rit with 11 points to kick out tiphareth in order to formulate Da'ath as the centre? always my favourite trick, never like staying in tiphareth for very long. universal love is so unclean.
 
 
Anthony
16:47 / 13.05.06
i'm being ovebearing and megalomanial for a reason. there is a window of opportunity open RIGHT NOW for those who can - to leap. i can't guarantee how long this doorway will stay open - all going to plan i should think it will be open for a long long while. that's an inadvertent consequence of my own magickal work and indeed my own failures.

THE ANTICHRIST.
 
 
Anthony
16:48 / 13.05.06
after me, i can't guarantee how things are going to be.
 
 
Anthony
17:02 / 13.05.06
Lyrics to Big-jesus-trash-can.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:09 / 13.05.06
Anth, would you mind at least dropping into near orbit around the topic of this thread? Thanks awfully.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
18:21 / 13.05.06
Anth: You are making a fool of yourself. Please stop trolling this forum. Nobody thinks you are clever or interesting. You are only embarassing yourself as your immaturity and lack of experience in what you're pretending to be so adept in shines through every word of half-baked secondhand claptrap that you type.

(Especially the bit about having crossed the Abyss, and referring to Tiphareth like its a retrogressive stage for you. That is funny as fuck, but I'm not even going to go there.)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:54 / 13.05.06
This one isn't as funny as the guy who spelled "Ipsissimus" with 5 s's.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:24 / 13.05.06
Okay, Anth, you're now completely out of line. I'm taking this to the Policy. I strongly suggest that you pack it in now, because you're currently heading towards a ban.
 
 
Never or Now!
19:54 / 13.05.06
it's not the first time i've been there, and as a virtual recluse of 2 years it's very easy to reach.

I don't doubt it...
 
 
Anthony
19:55 / 13.05.06
well i just wanted to put across my opinion which is "Thou art THAT". i don't really want to argue about grades but fine, report me for trying to initiate a discussion and stirring up controversy. the place will be lesser without me but i shall move on if that be the will of those above.
 
 
Quantum
22:49 / 13.05.06
I move to delete any further Anth nonsense with extreme prejudice and have just agreed to compile those many posts into one for convenience of reading and ignoring.

I remember distinctly warning you, Anth, that your multiple posting style was going to lead you into trouble. Don't play the martyr card now, you've had your chance and if you had any grace you'd leave rather than conduct any further ego-destroying you-don't-understand bullshit faux-chaote posting.

Normally I find myself in the give-the-twat-a-chance club but today unfortunately I find myself short on pity.
If you wish we can start a thread titled ANTH KING OF KINGS and throw attention at you (negative attention in my instance but I can't speak for anyone else) until you are sated, if that will keep you from rotting the rest of the temple. But I don't think it will, and thus I will happily support a ban and will indeed propose it if you keep up this nonsense.
Shut the fuck up.

Apologies to everyone else for this offtopica. Am heading to Policy.
 
 
Anthony
06:15 / 14.05.06
well i apologise but did understand that my multiple postings would be edited into one.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:12 / 14.05.06
The idea was for you to sort out your posting style, not for you to carry on writing like a four-year-old ritalin case and expect everyone else to clean up after you.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
17:09 / 14.05.06
Polite word of advice, Anth. You are basically parading with your arse hanging out in front of an assortment of people who really do know their shit, and every word you contribute about magic to this forum makes it painfully self-evident to everyone that you really, really don’t. Your posts make me wince, mate. They really do. The way you talk about the Tree of Life makes it sound like that old arcade game ‘Double Dragon’ or something, as if the Sephiroth were levels that you visit or Pokemon that you collect. It would be really funny if it wasn’t so crushingly familiar and depressing.

The only person you are fooling here is yourself. It’s generally pretty easy to gauge how much of an “adept” a person is by the way they talk about magic, not so much by what they say about it, but in the way they relate to the subject. It’s equally easy to spot someone with a little bit of experience who is unconvincingly fronting. I might be wrong in some of the details, but you come across exactly like someone in their early to mid-20s who has probably read Promethea and some other texts, and done some visualised pathworking around the Tree. Baby stuff. Not impressed. A pathworking in which you visit Tiphareth or Daath or Kether is not the same as having ‘attained the grade’ corresponding to that Sephiroth in the Golden Dawn or A.’.A.’. sense. The latter takes a fuck of a lot of work and is a profoundly transformative personal journey.

This is something fairly fundamental that a lot of people don’t seem to grasp. Promethea might have inadvertently had a lot to do with fostering that idea actually, the sense that a visit to a Sephiroth in some sense constitutes having attained its initiation. But it’s the difference between visiting the supermarket chain to buy some groceries, and sitting on the board of directors. If you knew the first thing about the mysteries you are shooting your mouth off about, you simply wouldn’t talk about the Sephiroth like they were notches on your bedpost. Which is probably the least of the plethora of teeth-achingly irritating ways in which you are coming across like a total muppet.

Now you’ve got a few options. Calm down, realise you’ve made a bit of an arse of yourself, stop acting daft, get over yourself, and contribute to the forum constructively and engagingly. Or else fuck off right now, or carry on and inevitably get yourself banned. We don’t really like banning people around here, there’s endless hand-wringing threads about the subject in the policy forum. You can become another ‘joke of the month’ troll, mildly irritating, hugely stupid, easily banned, quickly forgotten. Or you have the option to stick around and contribute more constructively. You might get something out of it, and you might even learn some stuff. But the ball is in your court.
 
 
khephret
04:19 / 16.05.06
I find this an interesting topic. The six planet system (7, including the sun) is the one I use personally, and the logic behind it is something I'm interested in exploring.

have you read 'poker without cards' by ben mack? there's an interesting divination system of sorts he writes about (which may be found elsewhere, i dunno--i'd never seen it before) that goes somewhat like this;

take a single, ordinary six-sided die and throw it. ask questions about your current thought process. interpret the resultant number the dice gives you with the following schema:

1. a thought that is either part of a bigger idea or a unifying principle.

2. a duplicity, like calling a circle on the eightball "one" circle.

3. a base to an idea, like a triangle is a base to tetrahedron.

4. solid structure of a thought.

5. an idea that is prone to influence

6. working system or a restructured thought, synthetics in motion, intellishit.
 
 
LVX23
12:17 / 17.05.06
ipssissimussess unite!
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:29 / 17.05.06
All you really have to do nowadays to attain the grade of ippsisissisisismusss is to read the issue of Promethea that talks about it. Everything you need to know is there.
 
 
EvskiG
13:53 / 17.05.06
Oh, please. If you can't obtain perfect enlightenment in a week by studying the back of a matchbook, you're obviously a crap magician and should simply kill yourself.
 
  

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