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Underground > Games & Gameplay >

Barbe-Diplomacy

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17:01 / 11.04.06

Right. A game of diplomacy on Barbelith. We've got the following players expressing an interest:

Bryan
Invisible al
Math says Greek = chic
Wally Week
Digital Hermes
Erisian
and myself.

If you guys can PM me to confirm yer all in.

I think Bryan is right in that we really should have a GM unless any of you guys can think of a way to play without one. i reckon we'd need a GM to keep moves impartial nad process turns on a neutral footing.

I'm happy to do it (obviously I'd rather play!) but I may need help with the Hackerz Ski11z to get a map up and running that can be linked to and updated. You may also have to bear with me from time to time as my work's been hectic on and off recently.

Other than that, we need to decide how often turns should be processed (once a week sound about right?), what map to use (see Invisible Al's excellent link to diplomacy rules and maps - I'll put a link up shortly) and the best way to present the info online (plus agreeing what to do if people have to drop out). All suggestions gratefully received.

Also if I'm out there's space for one more player, so first come first served. If the game works out ok, shall we say winner GM's the next one?

17:11 / 11.04.06

Al's link to rules and maps here

Everyone ok to use this map?

Er, which reminds me... is there a copyright problem here....?

And use the 4th ed rules?

BTW, mods, sorry if this thread might be better placed elsewhere (conversation/gathering perhaps?).

17:54 / 11.04.06

A possibility for playing without a GM might be to use a mailing list with a digest option. Of course, that would mean everybody has to get their orders in on a certain day, before the time that the digest gets sent out so maybe it wouldn't be that practical.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:11 / 11.04.06

If it's a success, can I join in next time? Sounds cool.

20:21 / 11.04.06

There's a space left if yer up for it Stoats...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:59 / 11.04.06

Cool- can you send me the rules, or do I need a cooy of the book?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:00 / 11.04.06

Sorry- just saw the link. Yeah, I'll give it a go.

semioticrobotic

00:50 / 12.04.06

I think Bryan is right...

Sweet Lord, my ego just grew two sizes.

... in that we really should have a GM unless any of you guys can think of a way to play without one. i reckon we'd need a GM to keep moves impartial nad process turns on a neutral footing.

Agreed. The neutral turn processing is what I consider to be of the utmost importance. The GM would need to function as someone who can simply receive all messages and compile them (we use the box lid for this when I play games in meatspace).

I'm happy to do it (obviously I'd rather play!) but I may need help with the Hackerz Ski11z to get a map up and running that can be linked to and updated. You may also have to bear with me from time to time as my work's been hectic on and off recently.

Have you looked into any of the programs linked at the Archives site? I'm on a Mac, and many aren't compatible with my set-up, but the PC programs look as though they might be very helpful, and spit out graphical maps when necessary. We chould host the images somewhere free, and then display them in-thread so everyone can follow.

As far as turn processing is concerned, I'm not even sure if we need a limit on the diplomacy phase length. Since we're playing in a mediated, long-distance context, might it be best to just process all moves when they've all finally been submitted? Or are we going to have to put in place a system that encourages people to actively participate and not forget about the game?

06:16 / 12.04.06

Have you looked into any of the programs linked at the Archives site?

Hmm yeah, but you wait till I get my ham-fisted paws on 'em.... Will try them tonight and see if I can one working. I suppose the other option would just be to put up the map each turn and run through what's happened.

As far as turn processing is concerned, I'm not even sure if we need a limit on the diplomacy phase length.

Cool. I'lll just process them as and when they come in and chase up any stragglers.

12:36 / 12.04.06

I love a good game of diplomacy, but it looks like you are full. Next time, then.

18:58 / 12.04.06

As far as turn processing is concerned, I'm not even sure if we need a limit on the diplomacy phase length. Since we're playing in a mediated, long-distance context, might it be best to just process all moves when they've all finally been submitted? Or are we going to have to put in place a system that encourages people to actively participate and not forget about the game?

I think some kind of time limit will help, if anything, to really fuel the necessity of negotiation. If the two-week (or whatever) deadline was coming up, and I still need to sweet-talk somebody, you can be sure it'll add some urgency to the game!

semioticrobotic

19:00 / 12.04.06

Hermes makes a good point. I had forgotten what an element of urgency can add to a game!

20:08 / 12.04.06

If you're playing a standard game of dimplomacy, I think it's relatively easy to set up a game on diplom.org which will take care of deadlines, resolving orders and even press if you want it. Registration with a judge server is required, but beside that minor hassle, it's a great tool.

semioticrobotic

21:04 / 12.04.06

Very interesting!

I skimmed everything for now. What do others think?

08:22 / 13.04.06

Diplom org looks good enough. Will spend more time to it tomorrow (Woo-hoo for Easter!).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:29 / 13.04.06

Ah- looks like I'm going to be busier than I thought- if you want to give my place to Lurid I'll wait until next time...

23:13 / 13.04.06

Can you post which judge you're under so we can observe?

23:48 / 13.04.06

Seconded. I'd love to watch.

semioticrobotic

01:11 / 14.04.06

Okay, so I've read through the instructions for using Diplom, but I'm still having a hard time understanding how it all falls together.

Can we guarantee that we'll all be on the same server? Do we need to get in a queue if we have all our players present and accounted for?

20:53 / 19.04.06

This is the part where I admit to never actually setting up a game, only playing and skimming the helpfiles. Not only that, but a lot seems to be a friendly web-interface around now, although it doesn't seem to be all-inclusive.

There seems to be the old judge system wich only works through email, and a newer system called the DPJudge, the latter has some kind of web interface (but still mainly email controlled as far as I can tell), and I think a bit more helpful helpfiles.

But, I can say that being on a sever will not really be a problem. Once you and all players are registered with a judge, each players signs up to the game on that judge. As for the queueing, I think you can make a private game, so only your selected players can join.

I wish I could be of more help :/

08:02 / 20.04.06

Not forgotten Diplomacy, just a bit on the busy side at the mo.

If the judge looks too much trouble, we could always set up an editable map and I would be happy to moderate the turns and change the map accordingly.

semioticrobotic

11:36 / 20.04.06

I too apologize for my silence. End-of-the-semester obligations are pressing in from all sides right now. This doesn't mean I'm no longer interested in playing, however!

18:53 / 20.04.06

One thing to keep in mind is that the rules are very simple. What's tripping us up, or confusing the issue, is the implementation of the rules. So long as everyone's at least somewhat conversant on the rules, an open process would probably keep everybody honest.

The only things I think that are really needed are either a map or at least some kind of chart saying whose armies are in what countries, and a record of the orders. To those interested parties, how many other people have played this before?

semioticrobotic

02:53 / 21.04.06

To those interested parties, how many other people have played this before?

If memory serves, I've been playing about eight years (on and off -- and am currently in one of those "on" periods). I agree with your assessment of the situation. The rules of the game are exceedingly simple, and play over long distances is nothing new (players have enjoyed postal games for decades). We just need to see how we can adapt long-distance play to the Barbelith scene.

Two hurdles seem most prominent at this point:

First, we need a way to share a common board/map. A computer program that spits one out would be best. Or at least, I think. Suggestions welcome.

Second, we need a way of keeping moves hidden until all players have ended diplomacy and submitted orders. I suggested someone to collect these, and then compile them as a post labelled according to season and year (Fall, 1901 -- etc.).

What can we all come up with?

06:39 / 21.04.06

To those interested parties, how many other people have played this before?

Yeah, but like I say, it's been a while. Got the rules printed out so getting refreshed won't be a problem.

One thing to keep in mind is that the rules are very simple. What's tripping us up, or confusing the issue, is the implementation of the rules. So long as everyone's at least somewhat conversant on the rules, an open process would probably keep everybody honest.

The only things I think that are really needed are either a map or at least some kind of chart saying whose armies are in what countries, and a record of the orders.

Yeah, that's what I thought Hermes. I'd be happy to sit out of the game and moderate. I'll take the orders that can be PMd to me by a given date. It might work better than an automated judge as a human GM can be a bit more flexible.

Then all we'll need is a map that can be edited, updated and posted here, or linked to from here - which is where I may need a hand in implementing (having the computer skills of a lame noob). Other than that there's nothing stopping us getting going....

semioticrobotic

11:26 / 21.04.06

If you have a board, Supa, could you move pieces, resolve conflicts and then take a digital photo of the board?

19:49 / 21.04.06

Second, we need a way of keeping moves hidden until all players have ended diplomacy and submitted orders. I suggested someone to collect these, and then compile them as a post labelled according to season and year (Fall, 1901 -- etc.).

Well, either a moderator can handle this, (submit each of the orders to him/her on the designated deadline) or each of us post our order publicly on a forum, after pm'ing and e-mailing the diplomatic backstabbing, er, negotiations in between. Then we would spend a couple of days implementing the orders, double-checking that everything's legal, and maybe calling a mod in for disputes.

As for digital photos of a real board of a game in progress? Supercool, Supaglue, if that's not too much of an imposition!

09:38 / 22.04.06

Cool with me.

09:38 / 22.04.06

although a map may be easier to edit and put up here than an actual board

semioticrobotic

12:50 / 22.04.06

although a map may be easier to edit and put up here than an actual board

Oh, okay! Then by all means, edit away! I offered the digital photo suggestion merely because it seemed the least technically complicated method of doing things, but if it's actually more work for you, then certainly disregard it.

How will we select countries?

16:27 / 22.04.06

See, now I wish I had a digital camera. I've got a fancy board with metal peices, and nice colour and detail on the countries. I'd totally set up the board, but then our game would suffer due to waiting for me to develop my old-school film!

07:31 / 25.04.06

I belong to another forum where several games of Diplomacy have been played over the last couple of years. Our GMs have used a program called Jdip, a free, open-source Diplomacy adjudicator application. The GM usually requires that moves be submitted by a certain time each turn, and then posts screenshots and lists the moves and such.

I can post links to the threads if you guys want to see how the games play out in this fashion. I've never played, but I've always watched the games from the sidelines. One thing I can say is that it requires a GM who is pretty strict about deadlines, or the game becomes unmanageable very quickly. The most recent game thread tended to get a little sidelined with off-topic posts between turns, which in turn has led us to having the moderators keep a closer eye on the thread to keep things a little more clean and clear. I mention this because it might help for you guys to learn from our mistakes.

semioticrobotic

11:51 / 25.04.06

Hot dang, Sandman. This is an excellent program.

Maps can be exported as PDF, JPEG, PNG, or SVG graphic files.

And there it is. We can PM our moves to Supa, ze can input them, the computer can adjudicate, Supa can have it export a jpeg (or preferred format) to the thread so we can view results, and (if it's a fall turn) we can request builds in the appropriate places to end each year.

As per Sandman's suggestions: Rule the rulers with an iron fist, Supa!

Dare I say we might have found a key to getting our game off the ground?

17:40 / 25.04.06

Good one! Editing a map now.

Shall I randomise whose who with a D8? (ahhh those roleplay years did come in useful...)

Oh, okay! Then by all means, edit away! I offered the digital photo suggestion merely because it seemed the least technically complicated method of doing things, but if it's actually more work for you, then certainly disregard it.

Stop pouting!

semioticrobotic

18:57 / 25.04.06

Shall I randomise whose who with a D8? (ahhh those roleplay years did come in useful...)

Sounds like a great idea. Just make sure I randomly wind up with England.

I'm excited now that this might actually work!

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