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In the Teh Matrix Warrior thread, Alex's Grandma: The Return made the following, slightly sarcastic, observation:
There are too many 'Agent Smiths' on Barbelith at the moment, IMVHO, and not enough 'Neos' - How on earth is this message board going to contribute to the (r)evolution (do you see what I did there?) of human consciousness if we carry on arguing from this position of over-rationalist scepticism with regard to some of the new ideas that are floating round out there, right now? The future is here, and it's happening, right now, and if Barbelith as a whole is going to be an agent of action, as opposed to reaction in the forthcoming changes, globally, the ones that are already obviously very apparent, to those with the eyes to see, in the run-up to the end of the world (as we know it,) on December 23, 2012, some of us, I think, are going to have to (re)open our minds.
Who here's little heart wasn't set racing when they first read 'The Invisibles'?
What's happened to that spirit?
Let's get it back!
Now, clearly, Alex is having a laugh here a little, but I think there's also a kernel of truth in what he says, in terms of the standard of debate around here. I'm not talking about the intelligent, well-reasoned debate that goes on in areas like the Feminism thread (though I'm aware that even there debate hasn't always been well-reasoned), or the careful teasing-out of issues that happens in the best discussions here. Rather, I'm thinking of our response, in threads, when we come across a point of view we regard as cocking stupid. I'm as guilty of this as anyone. What we seem to do, when encountering a stupid idea, say of the Matrix Warrior variety, is to dogpile on the holder of the idea with our dazzling wit and our massive intellects and, over the course of pages of increasingly bitter and catty struggling, we gradually kick the idiots into submission. Eventually, they go away. Hooray! Our correct ideas have won the day, on the field of battle that is Barbelith! Hooray for us, the good, the righteous, the free!
My concern though, is that this sort of thing doesn't seem to effect what would be the most useful change, i.e. the person who we believe to have cocking stupid ideas sitting down, thinking about it, stepping off a wee bit, admitting that we might have a point, having a reasoned debate with us and maybe- just maybe - changing their views. Or even changing ours. I mean, I'm aware that we are, of course, usually right about everything and all that, but I think we should at least entertain the possibility that sometimes we might be wrong. Certainly one thing certain aspects of the feminism discussions has shown us is that quite a few of us do have a few underlying ideas which are in need of critiquing. Heck, even yours truly was recently proven to be quite in the wrong about the peccadiloes of one Andrea Dworkin and Michael Barrymore.
Now, admittedly, when I was proved wrong on both those issues I tried my best to be polite about it, and obviously our idiots aren't always as scrupulous in their manners. But really, in an exchange with one of the idiots, who's smarter - us or them? Well, us. And isn't it the smart one who has the greater responsibility for stopping the conversation turning into a violent flamewar? We, after all, are mature and capable of formulating an argument without spluttering the word 'fuck' at every opportunity. And we do have a right to expect the same from other posters. But, when we don't get it, does that give us the right to immediately just pile on and start the piss-taking? And bear in mind that that 'us' does include me, I'm as responsible as anyone for this.
Let's take a concrete example, the Matrix Warrior thing. Over in the Temple, we occassionally have trouble with n00bs coming in who've bought wholeheartedly into the Matrix bollix, and have to disabuse them of their notions about the sheeple. Now, a lot of us in the forum have been t it for a while, this magic thing. We don't all agree on everything, but we recognise a simplistic reductionist worldview when we see it. But when and if we take the piss out of Matrix Warrior n00bs, does that really make them think, or do they instead just decide 'huh, that Barbelith, bunch of wankers, rigid reality tunnels, sheeple the lot of 'em' and fuck off somewhere else? I think the latter's more likely. In fact, I know of at least one example of an ex-Lither who's gone off and done exactly that. Well done to us, we drove someone out of the in-group. How enlightened and above ideological, either-or thinking we all are.
A lot of us are complaining, here and in the blogs, about how Barbelith seems to be getting worse, getting more argumentative and filling up with stupid people and pointless fights which degenerate into slanging matches. This trend seems to be continuing despite the best efforts of our very own Alert Vipers of sarcasm in mocking those afflicted with different viewpoints to our own. Maybe it's time we tried changing our behaviour when faced with posters with obviously cocking stupid ideas. Maybe we should listen to them a bit more, let them know we don't object to them personally as people, but that maybe their ideas might be wrong on some points, and if they were to have a look at source x they might change their views? Obviously it's not as much fun as pulling the weedy sods' argumentative pants down in the playground and laughing at them, but it might prove more useful in the long run.
In conclusion, then: what is so funny about peace, love and understanding? And do we want to just sit around squabbling and fighting, or do we want to act like the real UN? |
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