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Battlestar Galactica Season 2 for UK Sky People

 
  

Page: 123(4)5

 
 
penitentvandal
19:54 / 27.04.06
What was great about her and Adama in this episode was the way their positions in their first conversation about the issue - and remember, Adama doesn't push it any further than that - are countered by their actions or reactions later on: she actually goes ahead and enacts the ban, Adama listens to his old-looking wireless radio (God I love some of the design on this show) and pulls a face like he knows it's a really, really bad idea. Not that I think the guy's secretly a keen pro-choice advocate or anything...

Yeah, I thought that was a nice little touch.
 
 
Tom Coates
12:53 / 28.04.06
The reason I know what's going to happen next season by the way is because I've sort of downloaded all of this season and watched them via Torrent TV - the only way to consume episodic American media. I might have to watch it again though, because it was entirely awesome.
 
 
elene
15:03 / 28.04.06
I can't know how clearly you'd like the cylon master plan spelled out, Fat Lee, and there is of course the problem that we hear so much about the cylons from Baltar's guardian angel and so little from themselves. Nevertheless it seems clear to me that they see themselves as destined to supersede their creators as a species but have for some reason, a divine revelation or their programming, decided they must reproduce sexually in order to fulfil this role. This requirement, or rather the way in which it has been found to be possible, is causing a schism among the them. For some it's becoming clear that they cannot be the replacement themselves, that they are merely a intermediate temporary on the way to a superior human/cylon hybrid.

I've no problem understanding what I've seen so far in this way. What do you feel is missing?

Sorry I’m so late with this by the way, and please feel free to ignore it. I’ve only recently caught up with the series and started reading this thread.
 
 
penitentvandal
07:29 / 12.05.06
So, the colonials have now discovered a habitable planet. But it's only habitable in a temperate zone around the equator. And Gaius Baltar wants the humans to land on it for short-term political gain, neglecting the fact that within roughly two generations of skeezing about on a low-resource planet their ships will no longer be spaceworthy, they will essentially be medieval peasants and will be even easier meat for the godlike Cylon forces.

Clearly, this is the big twist Tom was talking about.

Or is it? I think not. I think a bigger twist is in the offing. Imagine: the planet actually is Earth - but an Earth after suffering a terrible natural disaster which as left only one habitable region. A raptor containing Admiral Adama, President Roslin/Baltar (delete as applicable), Gaeta and Tighe makes landfall on a small island. The only humans they find, however, are a ragtag group who, for some reason, refer to themselves as 'the survivors.' Attempts to negotiate with them are made, but stall temporarily as Adama and the Prez try to work out if the leader of the humans is the bald,craggy survivalist called John or the dark-haired, pretty-boy doctor called Jack...
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:40 / 12.05.06
Cut to an entire season of Galactica where nothing much happens except flashbacks to people's lives before the Cylon invasion. Yadda yadda yadda.

Although...

Cylons vrs polar bears. It's what the world's been waiting for.

I agree with you velvet, I have a strong feeling that we're going to come into season 3 one year down the road with the land-locked fleet firmly under the heel of Cylon domination (perhaps with Galactica in desperate flight towards Earth to try and get help).

Last week's episode was very good. Caprica and Boomer working together to bring about a change in Cylon mentality.

But...if Caprica got killed in the blast that destroyed Baltar's house, how the hell did he survive? Was it just that she shielded him from the glass exploding inwards? Or is all of that Baltar = Secret cylon 13 speculation true?

Also...DEAN MUTHAF**KIN STOCKWELL!
 
 
elene
12:58 / 12.05.06
I'll be very disappointed if it turns out Baltar is a cylon. I much prefer it that Baltar and 6 have somehow mixed into each other's psyches. Her having a him was one of the things I liked best about Downloaded, and 6's internal Baltar definitely takes the human side. The blast took about half a minute to reach his house, if I remember correctly, so he certainly might have survived unharmed as long as he was shielded from the flying glass, which he was.

Baltar is very human. Just about anyone else is a better candidate to be a cylon, I think, though of course the only person we can certainly rule out is Helo. No wait, if Starbuck's ovaries are worth stealing, then I guess she must be human too. Anyone else?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:48 / 12.05.06
Madame Prez can't be a Cylon, because she nearly died of cancer only to be cured by Cylon/human hybrid blood...

I seriously doubt either Adama is a Cylon, since everything we've seen so far suggests that the Cylon models are not imitations of existing human individuals, so none of them have any family. This means that if wasn't for 'The Farm', Starbuck could easily be a Cylon.

Anders can't be a Cylon or 'Downloaded' would make no sense.

Billy could have been a Cylon, but for practical external reasons won't be (the actor's left the show).

That leaves Tigh, Ellen Tigh, Tyrol, Cally, Gaeta, Doc Cottle, Zarek, Dualla, Tori the President's aide, Racetrack, Hotdog, Kat... Am I forgetting anyone?
 
 
elene
14:39 / 12.05.06
Yes, you're certainly right about Anders and Adama, Flyboy, I hadn't thought about Cylon models not being copies of humans, as does seem the case, and I guess Roslin too. Yeah.

I think either Tigh's unlikely to be a Cylon. Not really sure why though.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:50 / 12.05.06
Well, they are meant to be more advanced...
 
 
elene
15:52 / 12.05.06
Oh - yeah, of course
 
 
sleazenation
16:01 / 12.05.06
I don't think you can discount any character from becoming a cylon on the grounds that it wouldn't make sense/would invalidate previous stories etc... such things have happened before...
 
 
Evil Scientist
21:44 / 12.05.06
The Dean Stockwell character used a line whilst talking to the Chief.

The Chief asks him how he knows he's not a cylon and the priest replies:

"Maybe I'm a cylon and I've never seen you at the meetings."

Six said something similar didn't she?

Probably a red herring, but still.
 
 
sleazenation
22:01 / 12.05.06
yeah, all the people that are described as not being a cylon because they haven't been seen at the cylon parties have, thus far proven to be actual cylons... if only that dialogue had some intrinsic meaning in and of itself rather than being a line that the writers thought was sort of funny and way to point the audience towards likely cylon status...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:12 / 13.05.06
Battlestar Galactica cast as Simpsons. The BSG characters rendered as Simpsons. I especially like Tyrrel and Cally.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:00 / 15.05.06
sleaze:

yeah, all the people that are described as not being a cylon because they haven't been seen at the cylon parties have, thus far proven to be actual cylons...

Um, surely you mean one of the two people who've said it thus far, i.e. Six, because Dean Stockwell's Brother Cavill has yet to revealed as a Cylon, if indeed he is one. Unless you know something viewers of the show on Sky One don't know and are letting your need to kvetch about the show override your consideration for other people's desire to remain unspoiled, but that doesn't seem very likely...

if only that dialogue had some intrinsic meaning in and of itself rather than being a line that the writers thought was sort of funny and way to point the audience towards likely cylon status...

Quite right, there is no place for throwaway gags in serious science fiction - every line of dialogue must have intrinsic meaning, and that meaning can't just be "it means it's a joke". Ever. Right?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
11:49 / 15.05.06
So are you lot anywhere near the season finale yet?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:54 / 15.05.06
Yes, it's on tomorrow night.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:58 / 15.05.06
I have to say I think we've benefitted from not having to wait more than a week between episodes - I've read a lot of complaints elsewhere online about plot threads and/or characters being neglected for long periods of time, but there aren't actually that many filler episodes between the ones in which Big Things Happen...
 
 
sleazenation
12:18 / 15.05.06
I don't think it has just been a problem too many filler episodes for too long as much as too many filler episodes at the expense of exploring criminally underdeveloped ideas and themes. The vastly different culture on the Pegasus (with all its institutionalized rape of cylon prisoners) is all but swept under the table in favour of one half-assed episode whose only function appears to have been to create an excuse for placing Adama jnr in charge of his own Battlestar...
 
 
penitentvandal
09:07 / 16.05.06
Yeah - when you actually think about it, the Pegasus must be one fucked-up ship. The crew members have allowed themselves to be brutalized by authority to the point where they obey orders to systematically rape prisoners. There seems to have been no objection to this beyond the XO, and even then he only reveals his objections to Tigh when drunk, which suggests (a) the crew of the Peg are hateful prunts who allowed themselves to be bossed into raping the cylons because secretly they all wanted to, or (b) Caine and the Interrogator posessed some overwhelming ability to intimidate a ship full of trained soldiers into doing everything they said. Sure, they were in a scary situation, their entire race wiped out and all, but the Galctica was in the same boat and managed to avoid becoming Star Trek: The Fascist Generation, y'know?

Basically the Pegasus should be Hell in Space right now. Fights breaking out all over the shop. People up and shooting themselves out of nowhere and at complete random because they just can't live with what they've done. Recriminatory accusations of crew members to further hidden agendas ('you can't promote him, he shot fifty civilians and raped the cylon with his gun, I saw it, I tells ya'). Coalitions of Human Supremacists coming together on the Pegasus to try and take out the limp-wristed pinko liberal toaster-lovers on the Galactica.'Caine Lives' graffitti springing up on the walls. Instead of which, we get Stakhanov the engineer sacrificing himself for the Motherfleet and Jet Boy getting command of his first ship from his dad. At the very least there ought to be some rumbles of nepotism on the Peg. But apparently not, because the plot the plot the plot. No stopping the march of the plot.
 
 
penitentvandal
06:34 / 17.05.06
Well, Frakk!

Between this and last weekend's Dr Who, it's been a bad week all round for humanity's plucky attempts to resist the rise of the machines. I think I shall have to redress the balance later by aiming a swift kick at my DAB radio...keep the frakkers in their place, that's what I say.

So...what just happened, anyway? My guess is there's been some kind of regime change back at Cylon Central...the Dean Stockwell Cylon's attempt to convince the others that warring on humanity is an error and there is no God has probably failed and a new, more millitant group of Cylons has jumped into the breach with the intention of finishing the job they began on Caprica. That would fit with the idea that the Cylons found the humans by accident, though I have to admit it would make some kind of sense that they would allow the humans to think they'd been reprieved in order to let them destroy themselves. On the other hand, why withdraw from Caprica without killing Starbuck in that case?

Though, of course, they are looking for Starbuck...that guy bursting into the tent asking for Kara Thrace was the Headfuck Infiltrator, wasn't he? My theory on that, though, is he's actualy gone over to the 'the-war-was-an-error' camp and is now Cylona non grata with the regime, and is desperately looking for Starbuck to actually get her help...the problem, of course, is that there's no way she'll believe him.

I hope the idea of two Cylon factions means we get to see more of Dean Stockwell, despite two of him being spaced on yesterday's episode. One nice touch with his character was the way he just admitted to being a Cylon, both times...'I'm tellin' ya, I'm not a frakkin' Cylon, I....oh. Okay. I'm a Cylon.' Bang to rights, guv, it's a fair cop.

So, next series, I'm guessing the first few episodes are when we get to see how the Cylons run a planet. My guess is they may prove surprisingly caste-based: the Toaster Cylons are the lowest grade, and probably looked down on as little more than cheap labour and cannon fodder by the Infiltrator Models; possibly the Infiltrators divide by numbers, so all Number One infiltrators are at the top of the heap, and the Number...Twelves (?) are just one step up from Toasters. This might explain Six's evident joy in beating up Caprica Boomer (an Eight) in season one: she got to slap around one of the lower orders. Judging by his dress and general state of shabbiness, Headfuck is probably a lower-caste model, which might give him an incentive to rebel. It'll be interesting to see how humans are treated...will they all be back on the farm again, or will some become pampered, Vichy-style collaborators?

And, meanwhile, the only hope for humanity is Apollo, Adama, and Adama's Dodgy Moustache...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:01 / 17.05.06
I understand that Sky couldn't really show an advert for another station, but we UK viewers were sort of jacked (in terms of being able to understand what's going on with the Cylons and their internal balance of power One Year Later) by not being able to see some version of the following (taken from the Television Without Pity recap):

Immediately as the credits start to roll, a SciFi promo hits the screen; a woman's voice over shots of the cast, and all the Cylons we know, set to poundy drums, breathtaking in its enormity:

"Humanity has surrendered, the war is finally over. We must now fulfill our true destiny -- so we will love them, and take care of them. Show them the glory of peace. And, like God, our infinite mercy will be matched only by our power. And complete control."


That is the Cylon's position at the end of 'Lay Down Your Burdens'. They love us, and we can't be trusted to take care of ourselves, as they've learnt from studying us. So that becomes their job.

There are three more-or-less worldviews, or political/philosophical camps, that we know of among the Cylons.

1. Destroy All Humans (Or Not): this is the mainstream Cylon position as original presented to us, probably best embodied by the D'Anna Biers/Lucy Lawless model, but also by Doral, the Six who beat up Helo's Boomer and died fighting Starbuck on Caprica, and maybe that fake doctor guy from 'The Farm'. It's actually not a particularly simple position even of itself, but we can summarise it as: kill 99% of humanity in informative and fun ways, use the rest as breeding stock.

2. The War Heroes: the Six & Boomer from 'Downloaded'. I think the end of that episode deliberately misled us into thinking this position was either more benign or just more well-resolved than perhaps it is. All we really know about it is that it's something like: don't kill 99% of humans, instead treat them a more loving manner of which the Cylon God would approve.

That's a pretty big unknowable right there: what constitutes love in the minds of these two heavily-traumatised alien robots? It could be exactly what we see at the end of 'LDYB', except that that doesn't explain why the occupation of the Colonies and the pursuit of the Fleet were abandonned, assuming Cavill wasn't lying.

Or maybe another explanation is that the War Heroes thought that what they wanted to do was leave humanity alone, but got lonely - they love humans, specifically Gaius and Chief, and they went and disappeared off their map of the galaxy! Incidentally, I think we can assume that however long it took for the Cylons to decide that they wanted to 'look after' humanity, the interference around New Caprica did work, which means that Gina, the Six from Pegasus, was the only reason the Cylons found the place, which in turn means that this whole damn mess is a) even more Baltar's fault than it was already (even if settling wasn't in itself such a bad idea), and b) actually reall down to Cain and the Pegasus crew, so there's your pay-off and consequences for their actions.

Anyway, for whatever reason, I think it's clear that some sort of a working compromise between (or perhaps even a synthesis of) positions 1 & 2 has occurred at some point in the year-long break. There's some very subtle interplay between the two camps in that scene on Colonial One at the end of the finale, with Six and Boomer playing Good Cylon and Doral playing Bad.

War Hero Boomer: "As long as you offer no resistance, you won't be harmed."
Baltar: "How do I know that?"
Doral: "You don't. You also don't have any choice."

3. Brother Cavill: thinks the attack on humanity was an error, but not a moral error particularly, just an exercise is grossly misplaced priorities. He's an atheist, which is very interesting, because it puts him in neither of the above camps. It's important not to confuse this with position 2, and once you realise that they're not the same, you understand that he could be telling the truth in his 'message'. Cavill probably thought he'd found allies, finally, for his argument that this whole obsession with wiping out the humans was a waste of time and energy - and hey, even if at least one of these two ladies is still a deluded religious nutbar, they're saying the same thing he's said from the start, so great, he's with them. It might be significant that we don't see Cavill at the end of the episode: the decision to go find and 'look after' humanity after all probably pissed him off no end just when he thought that error had been corrected.

Fuck knows what Leoben's up to: while we know his previous models weren't atheists, I'd say the model that's looking for Starbuck could subsribe to any of the above positions, and so have anything in mind. He's sneaky like that.

Did I mention that I thought the whole finale was awesome?
 
 
sleazenation
11:04 / 17.05.06
Um - do you have any evidence that the Boomer we see at the end of the episode was a the warhero?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:08 / 17.05.06
I have an ability to follow storytelling.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
11:33 / 17.05.06
Oh sleaze, two months later and you're still banging on about evidence and consistency? Come on now, sir, desist.

My feeling is that the War Heroes are still the leadgin faction, but that yes, they got lonely. Their love had no outlet. And if it's correct that they just happened to 'find' the humans again. Time for an all-out human lovathon... But how are the Cylons going to express their love? By teaching the humans how to live 'properly': if not by example, then by force. I really dig the implications/echoes of fundamentalist Christian 'love' here. I reckon they're going to teach the humans how to behave, Mormon boot camp style.

Notice that the Lucy Lawless Cylon is not in the "greeting party" -- presumably her faction is still unpopular? And I don't know what to make of Leoben looking for Starbuck, unless it's to wipe her out before she puts together a new resistance guerilla force.

By the way, you can watch the sneak preview of next season on the scfi.com site.
 
 
penitentvandal
12:14 / 17.05.06
You can, but I can't for some reason. I click on it, but my computer won't let me view it. You see what I mean about the rise of the machines?

Where do you all get the names of the Cylons from, as well? I'm notorious for not picking up on characters' names (there are still characters in B5 I refer to only as 'that bloke on the flight deck in the first couple of seasons' and 'the evil Minbari guy, you know, wears black a lot, fights the Ranger'), but I'm pretty sure I don't recall being given any names for the various incarnations of Six, or the Headfuck Model. I could be wrong though.
 
 
penitentvandal
12:15 / 17.05.06
Oh, and incidentally, I note from last night that I was totally right about Baltar and t'drugs...
 
 
Planet B
19:37 / 17.05.06
As a 'Merican, I wondered if there were any Sky BSG watchers as let down by these last ten episodes as I was? (BTW, I hated, hated, hated the last half hour of One Year Later crap. I still refuse to believe that these people who had just surived a holocaust within a year-plus would be so quick to quit running the battlestars at full readiness. Makes no sense to me.)

I think the discussions on this thread and the US thread are far more interesting than the episodes themselves - and give the writers too much credit by sort of filling in all that is left unsaid (and probably unthought). Like you're three factions of Cyclons discussion, is there anything in the series that is actual evidence of this? It sounds really interesting but I doubt that we'd every see anything so complex attempted by this writing staff, which seems to leave all the most interesting philosophical ideas untouched after bringing them up momentarily.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:13 / 17.05.06
You seem to be forgetting that Baltar won the election and his sole policy was 'vote for me and you can have the planet' and I suspect a large part of it may come down to issues from earlier in the season, when Adama reassumes command he accepts that they can't continue with the fleet split in two and so goes after Laura. If enough people wanted to go down to the planet then those that didn't wouldn't have much choice. It's not clear how large the skeleton crews that maintain the fleet actually are, all we know for sure is that most of the people we know are down on the surface.

I was a bit askance on first viewing of the whole OYL thing but now I quite like it. I wonder whether flashbacks are part of their plan for the next season, I don't think they are really needed, though I'm still worried about Tyrrell/Cally and how they got where they are.

What annoyed me is that according to the Podcast, OYL Lee has let himself go to seed a bit and is now considered 'fat' by Ron and the writing staff. Did anyone who's not a size-phobic American TV exec even notice he was more jowly?
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
02:29 / 18.05.06
Yeah, I noticed that Lee had been supersizing his happy meals, and so have other people. I'm following a BSG discussion on another forum, and there are plenty of snickers over his few extra pounds.

I thought it was a nice touch. He still looks military, but not toned-pretty boy anymore.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:33 / 18.05.06
I don't think you have to subscribe to any particularly body fascistic views to notice that Lee has gained some weight - he now looks normal instead of like someone who represses his urge to eat along with many other impulses. All I could think about when I saw the jowls, however, was an interview with Jamie Bamber that was in the Guardian last weekend in which he says his biggest vice is "not knowing which drink is my last" - I suspect his brief in between filming the pre- and post-one-year-break scenes was to go out and drink as much lager as possible. Good for him...

I think the discussions on this thread and the US thread are far more interesting than the episodes themselves - and give the writers too much credit by sort of filling in all that is left unsaid (and probably unthought). Like you're three factions of Cyclons discussion, is there anything in the series that is actual evidence of this?

Everything in that post is based on things that have happened in actual aired episodes of Battlestar Galactica. Some of it is direct summary of what we've learned, other bits are informed speculation. I'll be happy to go into detail regarding any element of it that you single out.
 
 
elene
08:25 / 18.05.06
I still refuse to believe that these people who had just surived a holocaust within a year-plus would be so quick to quit running the battlestars at full readiness. Makes no sense to me.

I can. There are simply too few people to support that sort of military effort. Actually the fleet as it was is completely unrealistic. The civilian fleet would be suffering far, far more than we've ever seen. The Pegasus, as we first got to know it, is completely realistic. The civilians would be practically slaves and would definitely use the first opportunity that arose to attain a degree of independence. The planet being concealed from the Cylons would become a convincing argument for it's safety. Space travel might even be banned due to the danger of it's somehow attracting the Cylons.

On the other hand, it's entirely unrealistic for Roslin to be convinced Baltar is a traitor and not arrange that he have an accident immediately. I mean it's not as if there were no circumstantial evidence of his guilt. It's also ridiculous that they don't have an estimate of where earth is and how long it'll take to get there so that they could, with a good deal of advertising and lots of promises, try to convince people to persevere.

They just don't have the numbers and technology for any of this, or they didn't until the Cylons arrived. Now centurions can do all the hard work of course. I think it's entirely believable that they're still living in tents a year later. I really liked that.

Concerning the Pegagus's culture of abuse and how poorly it's been dealt with. People can enjoy raping, torturing and murdering when it's condoned by the state or they think they'll get away with it but otherwise get on just fine without it. Germany changed very quickly after the fall of the Third Reich, as does every country after war. The evil people don't die off, they just live within their means. Most of the crew of the Pegasus were merely following orders, as people do. The others will never forget the goodtimes under Caine, but, well, she's gone and life goes on.

That said, it's not just not been handled well, it's not been handled at all.

I think there are only two groups of Cylons. I think people are taken in by Dean Stockwell but I may be wrong. And of course I noticed Lee'd put on weight.
 
 
Evil Scientist
18:44 / 18.05.06
I just watched it.

They are so fucked.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:30 / 19.05.06
Now centurions can do all the hard work of course.

Y'see, this is what I've been wondering about. On the one hand, the Cylons, having taken over New Caprica, have a potential slave labour force in the humans. But why bother with them? Centurions can do the work much better than the humans ever could, and would probably be expected to do as much by the infiltrators. This is what I'm interested in seeing, with my idea that Cylon society is actually going to prove very caste-based, with the Centurions in the lowest rung, and I'm interested to see where humans fit in. Though I freely admit I say all this having missed out on watching 'Downloaded', which AFAIK is a big episode for info about the Cylons and their strange ol' robot ways.

Given the 'we love the humans, really' slant of Six's speech, I'd guess humans won't have to do any manual labour, but may wind up as little more to the Cylons than pets. And we know what happens to pets when they get out of control...

FWIW, I don't think Brother Cavill is a fake. It makes sense to include him: monotheism and polytheism are the dominant religious paradigms in the show, and Brother Cavill's atheism is one that hasn't been addressed yet which, on its own, makes him an interesting character. It's also noteworthy that he's one of the few Cylons to admit that they're machines and to suggest that they embrace that, rather than trying to be better than the humans or, even, ha ha, as you might say, human 2.0! How clever.

Sorry. I temporarily morphed into Russel T Davies for a moment, there.

Anyway, we haven't seen the last of Dean Stockwell. Those Quantum Leap royalties don't last forever, y'know.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:24 / 19.05.06
The impression I got from podcasts is that the producers were, at least by the mid-point of planning for the second half of the second season, working on the assumption that Cylon society was split in two, there were those that didn't care about humans and thought they should leave them alone and work out their reproductive problems themselves, and the other sect that believe they need the humans as brood mares for their offspring if society is to survive. The problem being that the splits between the two factions go across makes and not along lines consisted of lines. At the time of Brother Cavill's statement the seperatists would appear to have had the upper hand. OYL it would appear they don't.

Whether this is indeed an accurate impression of where the production team was then and whether it's where they are now is the unanswered question.
 
  

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