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Barbe-crush 2006

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:41 / 02.09.06

Change your name to Our Lady Of Sunset Beach.

PLEASE!!!

19:53 / 02.09.06

I Barbe-crush Ganesh, for being the voice of reason.

*

20:30 / 02.09.06

I crush Ganesh likewise, and Haus, and Mordant, and alas (as per usual); also the Fool for his art, MattShepard for continuing wisdom and temperance, Miss Wonderstarr, xk, Catjerome, and Kali.

I am teh barbeslut at the moment apparently.

22:38 / 02.09.06

I Barbe-crush Ganesh, for being the voice of reason.

Fuckin' a. Xoc, too, and not just an afterthought (gah, it's going to sound ridiculously backhanded) - I don't think I've given these boys the respect that they d-e-s-e-r-v-e. Which is rather more than the genocidal loons mentioned in that Manics song...

Agghh, it's all coming out wrong. You're both really great, anyway, and do let us know about the civil partnership, pref. with a special convo thread.

Awesome.

22:56 / 02.09.06

... do let us know about the civil partnership, pref. with a special convo thread.

Mweh. We've been trying to avoid being too smugly heteronormativityaping about the whole thing, but it has sort of permeated a load of other stuff. Maybe we will swallow the bile and give y'all an OK! style account of Our Happy Day (that's not meant to be blackflyinchardonnay ironic; it was very happy).

And cheers for the crushing, people. My tired thirtysomething apparatus crushes you back (if we could just huggle for half an hour in-between; it takes it out of a man, y'know).

22:58 / 02.09.06

I barbe-crush The Car You See Too Late, because I feel as if ze's being 'othered,' if not actively demonised, by well-respected members of the board who shouldn't need to be doing this to hir, IMVHO.

When has The Car You See Too Late ever said anything that might be considered harsh, or derogatory, about anyone else here, really?

Car, although it must seem tempting, don't take that wrong turn on Dead Man's Curve!

Tryphena Absent

23:00 / 02.09.06

I don't think you're overwhelmingly great necessarily, probably because that's reserved for fictional characters in my sad brane but I would really like to read an OK style account of the day (although life may be lacking without a photo diary to accompany it)!

23:01 / 02.09.06

We can probably muster a photo diary. When less pissed.

23:04 / 02.09.06

And when less chokey on Alex's asphyxiatory irony.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:52 / 03.09.06

I crush id's an entity thing, for many reasons but just at present for this.

Disco is My Class War

16:13 / 03.09.06

This is, unfortunately, not a crush post, but a comment on the flirtation which I thought might go here, since it's here that the discussion overflowed most recently. I don't know where else to make this comment, but if someone would like me to move it to a more appropriate forum, I'm happy to.

Kali and DM, the reason so many people are finding your flirting uncomfortable is not because you're flirting per se. It makes me uncomfortable because I get the feeling that you both enjoy the rush of being explicitly sexual in a quasi-public space. When you address each other privately in a public thread, you make the rest of us feel like we're forced to listen in on a private conversation. The enjoyment you seem to get out of this makes me feel that you're both being exhibitionists here. Exhibitionism turns any reader into a voyeur -- at least, I feel like a voyeur when I read your posts and find myself having to look at Betty Page pics. It feels like you're smearing textual/sexual juice all over my face -- without my having asked for it. So it's not offensive, exactly, but you're making people feel icky, and uncomfortable.

And for chrissakes, so many people have gotten together on Barbelith it's not funny. If you want to insert private jokes directed at Someone Special into your psts, try being subtle like everyone else. That can also be enjoyable.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:16 / 03.09.06

I am now barbecrushing Mister Disco.

Goodness Gracious Meme

16:19 / 03.09.06

Get in line, bucko.

I'd like to add to this by saying that for me, Mr.Disco has *nailed* (ho ho) exactly the aspect of the DM/Kali flirtathone that I find difficult.

It feels to me analagous to discussions I've known involving public BDSM play, specifically the extent to which such play can assume consent of those in the environment.

16:26 / 03.09.06

I'd agree with a good proportion of that, Disco, although I was probably more bored than uncomfortably voyeuristic; reading other people's online flirtation is a little like listening to extended accounts of other people's dreams - largely meaningless, and somewhat tedious. Having said which, my eyerolleyness was laced with a quaint sort of nostalgia, because the phenomenon of Kali and flirtation reminded me of Nexus days of yore. Weirdly, I think this nostalgia-tickling made me slightly more tolerant than I would've been otherwise.

It's maybe worth having a separate discussion of this; I think the factors around online flirtation and our responses to it are quite interesting in an of themselves.

16:28 / 03.09.06

Im gonna go and barb-crush Stoatberry Switchblade for turning me onto Firewater. They are quite good. And Im not even drunk.

"Psychopharmacoooooology!"

Im gonna be inside my head humming that song for days!

Goodness Gracious Meme

16:35 / 03.09.06

I am crushing Id Entity, even more than previously. For the complaints box thread, and the wonderful post in the 'bullying' (scare quotes as may be retitled) thread.

Truly, I adore you, Id.

Disco is My Class War

16:38 / 03.09.06

I crush GGM and Haus right back at 'em, but they know that already.

Having said which, my eyerolleyness was laced with a quaint sort of nostalgia, because the phenomenon of Kali and flirtation reminded me of Nexus days of yore. Weirdly, I think this nostalgia-tickling made me slightly more tolerant than I would've been otherwise.

Absolutely... hasn't someone already mentioned Jessica Rabbit? It made me remember the old days too, but not in a good way -- in a "Wow, this was what I used to put up with all the time and secretly resent" way. Which proves another point I have made elsewhere: Barbelith is now far more generally 'conscious' of gender and sexuality politics than it once was. Plus, Jessica Rabbit was a joke suit, let's not forget.

It's maybe worth having a separate discussion of this; I think the factors around online flirtation and our responses to it are quite interesting in an of themselves.

To be sure. I'm not saying exhibitionistic flirting, or sexy talk, is always inappropriate -- but maybe I'd like to see readers given the opportunity to decide to particiapte or not. Like, a thread entitled "DM and Kali are going to make with the heavy breathing: spectators welcome" would at least give fair warning. And denaturalise it. Which might just ruin the fun, but hey, them's the breaks.

*

16:51 / 03.09.06

Did I forget to mention you, Mister Disco? I did, didn't I? You're a longstanding barbecrush of mine.

Mordant and GGM: Awwwww. *huggles*

Er. Hope that wasn't too uncomfortably exhibitionist...

17:08 / 03.09.06

"Arrest my heart and take me for a ride on your big chopper!"; it's Motorcycle Cop Ganesh!

*swoon*

Oh, and yeah, voice of reason, Barbedaddy etc. Ganesh is teh fit.

17:08 / 03.09.06

Absolutely... hasn't someone already mentioned Jessica Rabbit? It made me remember the old days too, but not in a good way -- in a "Wow, this was what I used to put up with all the time and secretly resent" way. Which proves another point I have made elsewhere: Barbelith is now far more generally 'conscious' of gender and sexuality politics than it once was. Plus, Jessica Rabbit was a joke suit, let's not forget.

Jessica Rabbit was exactly what I was thinking of, and the ensuing discussion. I'm pretty sure I found it tedious back then, too.

To be sure. I'm not saying exhibitionistic flirting, or sexy talk, is always inappropriate --

Sure - and I'm not saying you are. I'm genuinely interested in the subject as it relates to Barbelith, and my own reactions to it. Might get around to starting a new thread myself.

but maybe I'd like to see readers given the opportunity to decide to particiapte or not. Like, a thread entitled "DM and Kali are going to make with the heavy breathing: spectators welcome" would at least give fair warning. And denaturalise it. Which might just ruin the fun, but hey, them's the breaks.

Agreed. This is, to some extent, what I was getting at with the "now we've made a point of discussing it, they'll be too self-conscious to continue" comment.

ONLY NICE THINGS

17:42 / 03.09.06

Weirdly, I think this nostalgia-tickling made me slightly more tolerant than I would've been otherwise.

Yeah, but I think that's a definite _thing_ - that things that have gone on for a very long time are tolerated, because they haven't been not-tolerated before. And by "tolerated", I actually mean that anyone raising issues with it gets slagged off as a meanie. There are previous examples, but they're all a bit contentious, and the context might get in the way of the message, though.

17:54 / 03.09.06

And by "tolerated", I actually mean that anyone raising issues with it gets slagged off as a meanie.

I think that, when it comes to raising those issues, some ways are more meaniesque than others - and "slagged", here, is a tad moveablefeasty. Disco's post, above, is good because it articulates his personal reaction in a way which stimulates reexamination of one's own personal reactions.

18:06 / 03.09.06

Oh, and yeah, voice of reason, Barbedaddy etc. Ganesh is teh fit.

Hah. Trampetunia, you're very kind. I think I preferred "chooper", though.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:19 / 03.09.06

You're absolutely right. I was thinking of, say .. was it Triplets who made the comment about the dead horse being done by David Tennant in the Doctor Who thread? That struck my as quite good-natured and meant-in-fun, but it was interpreted as being a sign of... hang on, I should check my wording... being pissed off, that's right. I don't know which if either reading was correct, though. So, yes, slagging off is not entirely but to an extent in the eye of the Beholder. What we really need is to get the cool, collected Mister Disco comment out _before_ the end-of-tether exhortations...

Tryphena Absent

18:25 / 03.09.06

I concur.

The problem is that if something hits all your buttons then you just can't do the Disco. You just want to make people stop before your brain collapses into jelly. So shouting shut up is all that you (actually all that I) can sometimes manage. I'm not the only one, right?

18:32 / 03.09.06

Yeah, it's certainly understandable in terms of need-to-shout venting on an individual basis. It does cloud the issue, though, for me anyway. I think I have a visceral reaction to posts entirely in UPPER CASE, and probably become much snarkier with them than their content necessarily merits. I think that might've been the case in my response to your expression of annoyance yesterday, Nina, and I apologise for that. Sorry.

18:51 / 03.09.06

there's a hefty wodge of g-flirt down that link posted earlier.

is that a more acceptable barbe-flirt than kali and DM?

18:59 / 03.09.06

... g-flirt

Well, quite - and that's another reason I'm not really in a position to get too personally censorious with other people for flirtatiousness, unless I want to make some sort of argument for it being more acceptable when it's not straightforwardly heteronormative. Which I don't really think I can.

19:13 / 03.09.06

that makes sense.

i was more wondering what folks who are not entirely pleased by DM and kali's mutual sexy-party talk thought of other flirters, and if they get the quease with as much ease when folks they like a little more are waving their virtuals about the place.

most folks like you at least a little, and that makes you a good example.

19:36 / 03.09.06

Which I don't really think I can.

With a chooper that big, Ganesh, you can do what you like...

Oh. Right. No Flirty. Sorry.

i was more wondering what folks who are not entirely pleased by DM and kali's mutual sexy-party talk thought of other flirters

While I'm not offended by any of the 'Dead Kali' stuff, I share the feeling of 'ick' somewhat.

It's a bit strange, because I like to flirt, and I often like to see/read other people flirting. I think it's a healthy, fun, funny etc. way for people to interact. I mean, this thread is essentially devoted to flirting (yeah, declaring a crush isn't the subtlest flirt, but it still is a flirt..).

So hard to say why (or even work out why) the Dead Kali stuff icks my mind, but I think it's something to do with the lack of subtlety. It's like watching a couple of drunk people joking about getting it on when you know that they will never get it on because they don't actually fancy each other that much. It smells somewhat of an attempt at flirting, or even a joke about flirting; which isn't actually flirting, but a grotesque.

It's like watching some z-list actors being told 'imporvise! just act sexy' and the fumbled flashing of flesh and blatant comments that end up as channel 5 porn, rather than an erotic masterpiece...

Fuck it. Disco said it better.

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:10 / 03.09.06

i was more wondering what folks who are not entirely pleased by DM and kali's mutual sexy-party talk thought of other flirters, and if they get the quease with as much ease when folks they like a little more are waving their virtuals about the place.

I'd advise that this presupposes that the important issue here is whether or not the other parties like the flirters, which I don't think is necessarily a safe assumption. I think there are certainly reasons why one form of flirtation is more or less icky than other forms of flirtation, but whether one likes or dislikes those involved should not be assumed to be one of them, not least because it forces us back to personalities rather than methodologies.

20:26 / 03.09.06

i was intending to examine whether that was the case, dude.
i was curious if folks do get the queasy just as easy when flirters they like are involved, and wasnt intending to say that this was or was not in fact the case.

please avail yourself of my PM inbox if you would like to correct my language so that i can make this more clear to all without further falling foul of my apparent illiteracy.

*

20:35 / 03.09.06

toks, I read you as being pissed off at Haus just there. Is that the case?

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:37 / 03.09.06

toksik, I don't understand why you keep demanding that I PM you about issues that are relevant to a broader thread. If you would like to explain this, feel free to PM me, because I don't want to appear rude but I just don't get it.

As it is, I clearly took you awry here. I thought that you were supposing that the key factor was liking or not liking. I now understand that you sought to establish a control - Megs and Kali - and then alter factors to see what it was that made flirting more or less exceptionable. In this case, however, we've got a bit of a problem, because two factors are being changed - the sexuality of the flirtation and the perceived popularity of the flirters. Also, the status of the flirters in relation to each other (G. and X. being civilly partnered) - although as that only takes place in one pair, you could use that as the control itself.

Admirable as the attempt to employ the scientific method is, I think our control variation is going to be too diverse to triangulate.

Hmm. Where else can we find good examples of sexy rather than intellectual flirtation? I'll have a think.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

20:38 / 03.09.06

It's funny... Like I said elsewhere, Megsie/Kali was driving me round the bend (sorry DM and Kali! I don't want to harsh on you guys but it's true), but I had a hard time analysing why that should be when I find other flirtations either neutral or actively pleasant to read.

I guess there are a lot of things going on with DM/K that bother me. For one, it's so... vanilla. You know? Very het, very straight... eh, it's hard to articulate, but you know how there's a certain way that heterosexual attraction supposed to go, a specific pattern of interrelation, which I personally feel very alienated from/by (I can only imagine how honked off a queer person might get with it). And I'd sort of got used to not seeing it too much on the Barb, and then when I do see it it's really eye-pokey.

For another--and I feel a bit bad saying this, but I'm going to anyway--you know that thing some women feel compelled to do, where they seek validation from male sexual attention? Kali, I kind of feel like you do that. I'm no shrink and I don't know you very well yet, but that's definately the impression I get from your posting style. And I feel a real pang when I see it. Even thought the flirty posts are made in fun, I sort of see the spectre of this need behind them... I dunno, I might be talking shit.

Ack. I'm rubbish at communicating this stuff. Hope that made at least a bit of sense.

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