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Policy Miscellany

 
  

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Tabitha Tickletooth
14:26 / 20.03.06
I’m thinking about starting a thread to discuss habitation, particularly the idea of living alone, and the politics/philosophy/environmental impact/social and personal experience, thereof. I think the central question of the thread is: What implications does living alone have for individuals, societies and the environment?

My questions are:
Has there been a thread about this (I did a Google Barbelith search and couldn’t really see anything)?
If not, do people think this might be of interest?
If yes, where should it go?

My first inclination is Switchboard, primarily because the social and political implications of a continuing increase in single occupancy accommodations (obvious economic, space, home ownership, land use issues) were what started me thinking about the subject.

But then I think there is a very important Head Shop strand to it as well – I realised that I am concerned the possible impact on individuals and society that more of us are living alone, does it decrease tolerance, are we becoming isolated, what happens to our support networks etc. It also struck me that I was making a value judgement - share good, alone selfish - and I wondered what other people thought about that. Against this, is the fact that it has been massively empowering and a source of freedom for women, in particular, and for many others oppressed by the old structures of enforced cohabitation.

Then again, as everyone lives somehow, somewhere, I’m wondering whether it is not actually just a Conversation thread in which people could begin, at least, by discussing how they have lived/live and what they think of living alone.

This is quite rambling – you see my problem! No-one wants a thread like this and maybe by deciding where it goes, I can set about structuring it a little better. Or not.

Thoughts?
 
 
Cat Chant
14:29 / 20.03.06
Yes! I want this thread! Perhaps you could run two parallel threads, one in Convo and one in Headshop? I think this has been mooted/done before, and it seems like a good idea to me in this case: people can share experience and tips in the Conversation thread, and if any insights come to us that we think deserve more Headshoppy thrashing-out, we can look at them in more detail over there.
 
 
grant
17:59 / 20.03.06
The environmental impact angle sounds Laboratory-ish, but if you want Head Shop talk, put it in Head Shop.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:55 / 21.03.06
There's a bit of an issue developing in the Temple.

We start here, with a two-year-old thread bumped by a fairly obvious plug for a group which is charging a fairly chunky fee if you want to sign up. I let the post stand because there's some free texts on the website, just called the poster's attention to the wiki (pointing out that he wasn't exactly in the best of odour already). There followed an unedifying spat, and then threadlock.

and then we have this, protesting... something, I'm not sure what, and linking to the old thread.

and another mention here, just in case we'd missed it. He got rather shirty when called on this.

So, thoughts? Am I being too harsh here; how do we feel about plugs for fee-charging organizations?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:23 / 21.03.06
Well, it seems so far that DEDI basically wants to plug his Order of the Golden Dawn, and inexplicably to advertise that there are other orders of the Golden Dawn out there. Perhaps we should just set up a series of links to all the different Golden Dawns and see which has the most competitive offerings. We might also like to ask Rising and Revolving to explain why he believes that joining this Golden Dawn is such a bad idea.
Alternatively, since people are not supposed to turn up and immediately start pimping their sites/ebay auctions/ersatz moneyspinners aimed at credulous newbie magicians, we can start deleting his posts. If he feels that his current treatment is irksomely ineffectual, then we could help that out by asking Tom to remove his suit registration.

However, I'm not a Temple moderator anymore, so I don't know. Ethically, he does at least broadcast his fees and that he is currently in the middle of legal action about who gets to sell the Golden Dawn energy drinks.
 
 
rising and revolving
00:47 / 22.03.06
Just to clarify, I have nothing against this (or any) GD thang. It's just that the only thing that Golden Dawn groups are unarguably superior to all other groups at is arguing on the internet about which one's better.

Said arguments tend to involve ... they're just ugly and useless, ultimately. Which is why I'm a bit worried by DEDI and his pimporama starting the endless flood of doom.

That's the quick answer. Would have more, but am at trade conference at the moment.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:00 / 22.03.06
Thanks, RnR. That makes good sense.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
04:06 / 22.03.06
At this point I'm actually quite keen to start deleting anything else he posts that involves pimping out this organization (or complaining about how he's not allowed to). If he wants to link to free texts where relevant to the discussion, fine, but I think we've seen enough of this sort of thing. I don't like cutting chunks of text out of threads, I really don't, but I don't see an alternative here.

So: I'll be putting anything else in the same vein up for edition or deletion; if this is found to be ineffectual, we can look into having his membership revoked. Sound fair to everyone?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
04:12 / 22.03.06
Mordant- seeing as how you're awake, fancy taking a look in the Head Shop? Not the best way to start your morning, I'll wager, but...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
04:19 / 22.03.06
Already seen it and proposed the lock, chum. What a fucking mess.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
06:55 / 07.04.06
DEDI is at it again, with another complaint about not being allowed to plug his HOGD. At this point I'm just going to withdraw, as interaction with this person has thus far proved futile; if he brings it up again he'll just be referred to the policy. Hopefully he'll drop it now, or at least keep it out of the Temple.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:34 / 07.04.06
Look, do we not have enough moderators in the Temple at present? I'd be happy to revolunteer. In either case, can we get agreement on a next step for Temple moderators? I'd suggest deleting any future pitch, or removing the links, and warning DEDI that if he starts disrupting the board he will be banned. I think we have enough ascended masters that the loss of one tritranspromegistus will not hole us hopelessly beneath the gunwhales.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:55 / 07.04.06
See, removing another pitch would be fairly clear-cut. But he doesn't repost links, he just complains about not being able to post them, which is a bit different.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:42 / 07.04.06
Well, if the Temple is a serious forum, we warn him that he is rotting the thread and anything more he says offtopic will be deleted. Also, if he could sound a bit less fnordy, that would be great.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:51 / 07.04.06
I've now PMd him and said pretty much that, as politely as possible. I've invited him to bring any further comment on the matter to the Policy forum, warned him that I'm likely to start requesting deletes on his posts, and suggested that if he keeps on being disruptive he'll get banned. He's already aware that he's being discussed in this thread because I sent him the link.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:09 / 07.04.06
And I've now recieved an abusive PM in response.
 
 
Char Aina
10:25 / 07.04.06
classy.
you send done back yet?
if it were my inbox being assaiulted, i might suggest that his conduct is not only unwelcome, but that his order is losing kudos with almost every one of his posts and PMS.

you'd think a lawyer would know better, wouldnt you?
how to convince folks of stuff, i mean.
i guess he just isnt that kind of lawyer.

y'know.
a good one.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:29 / 07.04.06
Would we all agree that as soon as a PM becomes abusive, it's fair play to post in on the board?
 
 
Char Aina
10:50 / 07.04.06
no.
one's abusive is another's not.
everybody haus argues with will have precedent to violate his privacy, claiming abuse, for example.
i think that if a poster becomes abusive, it is fair to make a commitment to post further PMs on the board.

i get the feeling you havent thought of this from all angles, dude.

weapons agin are often just as easily weapons fir.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:27 / 07.04.06
Well, how people deal with private messages is sort of their affair, I think. Personally, I won't publish the content of private messages without permission, and I will get very cross if somebody publishes the content of a private message from me without permission, but there's nothing I can do to stop them, really, is there? So, if Mordant feels justified in posting the content of his message without asking for his permission, that's her call. At times I have warned people that if they maintained an abusive tone their messages would no longer be considered private, and at others asked people If I can quote their private messages where they make useful or instructive points which coould be used in a thread.

So... I think you have to decide what your policy is on PMs, and then try to be consistent with it, really.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:13 / 07.04.06
If I respect the poster, I respect their privacy. Even if I get a shouty PM, I don't like to post the content. Repeated abuse of the PM system, however, suggests that the poster doesn't actually give a monkey's about privacy.

I sent DEDI a brief message advising him that using the private message system to send personal abuse is likely to be regarded as harrassment, and may contribute to his being banned. He responded with more namecalling. He will recieve no further private communication from me and his messages are likely to be deleted unread in future.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
12:38 / 07.04.06
If a poster is informed that any future PMs may be posted to the Board, they then have the choice to refrain from sending any or can carry on regardless. Might put paid to their nonsense.

However, if their posts are being deleted, they might want you to repeat their snash by this route. When you're flinging shit at the walls, you're probably quite happy for someone else to throw a handful for you.
 
 
Char Aina
16:04 / 07.04.06
that's certainly my preferred route.
i would break my own rules to send tom any i found to be exceptionally beyond the pale.

i have done this once before.
 
 
electric monk
16:25 / 07.04.06
Tried to Googl-e-goo DEDI's posts to see what else ze's been up to on the board. His profile says ze's put up 90 posts thus far. Google only turned up two. One was a Books thread which DEDI comments in without having read the book under discussion (but does talk about another book by the same author). The other was in the Feminism 101 thread, and seemed to me to indicate that DEDI'd put his foot in it and was trying the "joke" defense.

And now abusive PM's. I'm not yet to the point where I'd advocate banning, but I'm currently moving quickly past the point of "maybe ze'll re-evaluate zir actions".
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:46 / 07.04.06
Try here.
 
 
electric monk
18:35 / 07.04.06
Oh, Mr. Dirty Underwear! Now I remember!

It's not exactly a stellar lineup, is it? And coupled with the PM's...Jeez. Well, he's gotten a warning. Maybe we should give 'im a chance to cool and, if he resumes the pattern again, it's time for airlockity-suckity-squooch.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:53 / 07.04.06
Right, since I've been given the go-ahead by the poster concerned and we could all do with a laugh...

MC: If you have any further complaints or comments regarding moderation, I strongly suggest that you take them to the Policy in future. The Policy forum is for all members to comment, question and air grievances, not just moderators.

Any further comments on the subject in the Temple are likely to be put up for deletion. Should you persist in being disruptive, you will eventually be banned from the board.


DEDI: As I consider you totally devoid of character and class, Carnival Clown-boy, I have nothing to say to either you or the whore your mother.

MC: Please note that using the private message system to send personal abuse is likely to be regarded as harrassment, and may contribute to your being banned.

DEDI: (1st PM) What can you consider 'abusive' in a factual statement? (2nd PM) Abusive? Oh, I see, I forgot the "Mr." Rather, the *Mr..* Well, though I do so grudgingly, how about "Mr. Circus Elephant-Boy"?

MC: I decline to engage in any further private communication with you. Any more abuse of the PM system will be regarded as permission to post all your previous PMs on the public board.

DEDI: I certainly have no interest in any further communication with you. However, if that is a threat, you gladly have my permission to publish what you will.

His courtroom style must be quite something.
 
 
electric monk
19:18 / 07.04.06
I withdraw my prior nice-guy "give 'im a chance" statement. Those PM's are immature crap at best.
 
 
Spaniel
19:29 / 07.04.06
I'm constantly staggered by the immaturity of Barbelith's trolls and assorted pillocks.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:03 / 07.04.06
OBJECTION OVERRULED!
 
 
electric monk
20:09 / 07.04.06
Point of order: You're a meany meany poo poo pants.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:56 / 07.04.06
Have we got a naughty step? I think we should instigate one.

Mordant you poor love, come and have a nice cup of tea and a sit down.
 
 
Cat Chant
10:36 / 08.04.06
What Lula said.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:33 / 08.04.06
A lawyer, a darke magickian and a semi-stalkerish internet type... I suppose the only question here is; who's going to put him in their novel/short story/screenplay/HP Lovecraft tribute first?!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:08 / 11.04.06
More seriously, however, is this _really_ the kind of behaviour we want to be appearing to condone? I like very much our reluctance to moderate people rather than posts, but I'm conscious that it means that our people are spending a lot of time having essentially the same four or five conversations (I note that in the Temple, Bruno has just accused Mordant C. of being a bad moderator for responding with anger... round we go again).
 
  

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