BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Magick as maladaptive coping device

 
  

Page: (1)2345

 
 
Ganesh
08:32 / 26.09.05
Okay, so one doesn't have to scry far to work out which poster's triggered this. It's something I've been thinking about for a while, though, having observed people I know professionally and/or personally fluctuate in terms of their active interest in magick. I want to make it clear that I'm very tentatively advancing a theory (from the viewpoint of a pshrink whose experience of magick is largely second-hand) about some magicians at certain stages of their lives. I am not simply saying, "all magicians are saddo losers".

It's well recognised that very evolved conspiracy theories often include an element of grandiosity on the part of the conspiracy believer (the underpinning idea being "if They are after me, I must be a special person") and, a few years back, I initiated a long Barbe-discussion in which I suggested that the conspiracy mindset might be a psychologically protective mechanism, an (extremely efficient, if 'psychotic') way of never having to examine or own one's own failures ("I would've achieved great things if They hadn't worked to keep me down").

I wonder sometimes whether a strong interest in magick serves a similar purpose - distancing oneself from creeping disappointment or feelings of underachievement in more 'mainstream' spheres of living - but, instead of obtaining significance through the thrill of persecution, the magician gains his sense of power through the theoretical framework itself ("I may seem insignificant, but I exert my influence on the magickal plane"). Any need to demonstrate material results can be explained away by arguing that the practice of magick is 'above' results-based systems, or that although one possesses great powers, using/showing them would somehow be 'against the rules' (the rule of three times three, etc., etc.) - both responses having the benefit of making the magician appear loftily mystical or more ethical/thoughtful than thou.

(I suppose many self-proclaimed 'psychic vampires' could be said to employ similar methods, IMHO more irritatingly. Y'know, they're not just exhausting, self-obsessed bores; they're sexxxy psychic predators of the vampenergy plane...)

There's not necessarily anything wrong with using magick as a means of feeling good about oneself and one's place in the universe. I do feel, though, that - as with the committed conspiracy theorist - the paradigm can be a devouring one, particularly where social skills are concerned. I've met several magicians who are, basically, rather timid people who seem singularly ill-equipped to deal with normal human interaction, and I can't help but think magick has provided a refuge from the messy world of human contact, a refuge which has become a ghetto, but a ghetto to which they stubbornly cling. This is where the rather unpleasantly misanthropic narcissism comes in, the sub-Nietzsche 'sheeple' crap. It grates because it does nobody any favours; it's a rather adolescent, paper-thin 'fox & grapes' way of projecting one's own fears and failings onto muggle humanity en masse.

Aaanyway. What do other people think? Does this seem familiar, or am I perhaps overgeneralising from my contact with a subset of the magickal community? Also, do Temple-frequenters feel their magickal practice waxes and wanes in direct or inverse proportion to their sense of achievement in other areas of their lives?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:56 / 26.09.05
It does seem familiar, yeah. I think that some of what you've described could apply to a lot of us at one stage or another of our careers: using magic to bolster fragile self-esteem, to hide from one's faults, to avoid dealing in a realistic way with problems in one's life, to engender a false sense of superiority to others.

I'd like to say that this is all stuff that gets left behind on the muddy shore of adolescence, but sadly that's not the case. Some people never get over it at all. I think that these are pitfalls that any one of us could possibly fall into at any time. For this reason, the magician must constantly monitor hir progress and general effectiveness in the world at large, and subject hir practice to rigourous interrogation from a variety of perspectives on a regular basis. Unfortunately, these last are often neglected, with the practitioner becoming actively hostile to any challenge in regards hir way of working.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:00 / 26.09.05
Also, do any Temple-frequenters feel their magickal practice waxes and wanes in direct or inverse proportion to their sense of achievement in other areas of their lives?

I tend to find that when I'm productive and doing well, I'm more motivated to keep up with the ooky stuff. When my life's not going well, my practice sucks. I get discouraged, I get lazy, neglect my studies and my daily routines, and generally sink back into my armchair. Not terribly healthy, but I suppose it's marginally better than the other way around.
 
 
Ganesh
09:04 / 26.09.05
I'm particularly interested in the latter part of your first post, Mordant, because, looking at this stuff from the outside, I can see that many magicians appear to use magic in a perfectly adaptive way, and I wonder which safeguards they use to ensure they're not simply oversheltering fragile egos or scapegoating the world for their own timidity. Which methods of self-interrogation do you use to ensure your magickal practice isn't simply providing a (socially limiting) comfort blanket?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:13 / 26.09.05
Absolutely - but I would by no means consider every person who affects an interest in magic and occultism to actually be a "Magician" as I would define the term. There are no comfort zones or safety blankets in actual magical practice, as I would define it, but the affectation of such things is another matter. If you are doing it properly and working it with all of your being - then it's going to put you on the spot, challenge you, force you to question every facet of your being, constantly change the way in which you relate to the world, and reformulate your being along empowering lines - sometimes in a harsh and uncompromising way. These things characterise the nature of magic and magical practice - whatever the tradition.

Even when you're feeling the most comfortable and self-satisfied in your practices - especially so - something will come along and explode everything you have been clinging on to and force you to operate without it. It happened to me yesterday. There is no comfort zone. If this continual ongoing process of adjustment does not characterise your practice and your life, then you are not a magician. Similarly, if you can't produce real world results when called upon to do so, then you are not a magician. There are not very many magicians.

Lots of people do use the affectation of magic as a maladaptive coping device. Certainly. Are they magicians? Are they fuck.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:22 / 26.09.05
Which methods of self-interrogation do you use to ensure your magickal practice isn't simply providing a (socially limiting) comfort blanket?

BiaS' Checking In thread has some useful answers to that question.

I guess I try and look at the way my life is going objectively: general health, self-care, socialising, working/looking for work, ect. Has the Great and Mighty Sorceress taken her library books back on time? Has she phoned the temp agencies this morning, and done her Spanish homework? If there are problems, am I using my practice to help address those--or just to cover them up?

If I'm currently trying to use magic to achieve a specific end, I look to make sure I'm giving the magic practical ways to work.

My situation is complicated slightly because I have a disability (my epilepsy) and also a history of clinical depression, which occasionally rears its ugly head. These do at times affect my ability to function as well in the world as I'd like, so I need to take special care that I'm using my practice as a way to deal with these issues and the problems they bring, rather than as an escape from dealing with them.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:26 / 26.09.05
Even when you're feeling the most comfortable and self-satisfied in your practices - especially so - something will come along and explode everything you have been clinging on to and force you to operate without it.

Oh, boy, will it ever. I've experienced this any number of times, moreso in recent months.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:27 / 26.09.05
I certainly think any magic/religion/mythology can be used to (inneffectively, and dangerously) plug gaps in people's lives. I think most of us are quite happy with the idea that mainstream religion can be this placebo for a lot of people, but I also think it's right for Ganesh to suggest that some people on "our" "side" might be getting the same thing from our practice.

Which methods of self-interrogation do you use to ensure your magickal practice isn't simply providing a (socially limiting) comfort blanket?

Well, the best tool to make sure this doesn't happen is to be aware that it could happen, if you see what I mean. I think most everyone here is fully aware of what they're doing; they know how what they do fits into the rest of their lives and though they might wander near the edge of unreason/madness when it's neccesary, they have a roadmap.

Whereas if you look at other "magick people" on the internet, regardless of tradition or ideology, you'll see a lot of people who seem to be in dire need of help: not because they've fallen prey to Teh Darque Magiks, but because they seem to base their entire persona on their workings. I'll try and provide some links to people's websites, but generally a feature that seems to crop up is that it's never enough to say, for example, "Hello, my name is Keith and I'm interested in this part of the Vodoun tradition, here's some information"- they have to go the whole hog with pages of inscrutable dialogue and graphics, the main purpose of which seems to be self aggrandizement/self promotion (suggesting a serious lack of self esteem)- and they don't seem to realise it. Is this what you mean, Ganesh?

Of course, the above only talks about web presence. What are people's experiences w/regard to this in real life?
 
 
illmatic
09:31 / 26.09.05
Wish I had mroe free time to be able to get into this as it's a fascinating topic. I'd echo Mordant's comments that when I'm feeling good about myself, I'm more likely to commit to practice of some kind. If I feel shit, I'm more likely to shit on my bed worrying about nothings.

As to what provides a good reality check, basically other people and a sense of humour. Having the common sense to disentangle your own experiences from your preconceptions or what've you've read helps a great deal as well, but I think you need a bit of experiences before you do this.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:45 / 26.09.05
I'm more likely to shit on my bed worrying about nothings.

I hope you clean up afterwards
 
 
Ganesh
09:48 / 26.09.05
Yeah, banish with hot water and baking soda.
 
 
illmatic
09:52 / 26.09.05
Woops. I think I'll leave that in. Shows what happens when you mess with TEH DARK.
 
 
Ganesh
09:53 / 26.09.05
If this continual ongoing process of adjustment does not characterise your practice and your life, then you are not a magician. Similarly, if you can't produce real world results when called upon to do so, then you are not a magician. There are not very many magicians.

This is how I'd see it, Gypsy - or how I used to see it. Over time, I guess I've met sufficient numbers of scare-quotey 'magicians' who seemed, to me, to do little more than read a lot and explain the folly in expecting real world results that the term's become devalued in my mind. Thanks for that.
 
 
Ganesh
10:32 / 26.09.05
I'll try and provide some links to people's websites, but generally a feature that seems to crop up is that it's never enough to say, for example, "Hello, my name is Keith and I'm interested in this part of the Vodoun tradition, here's some information"- they have to go the whole hog with pages of inscrutable dialogue and graphics, the main purpose of which seems to be self aggrandizement/self promotion (suggesting a serious lack of self esteem)- and they don't seem to realise it. Is this what you mean, Ganesh?

Kind of. Or it's a particular online phenomenon that's probably symptomatic of the stuff I'm talking about. Some degree of jargon is unavoidable in any specialised field, but choosing to actively luxuriate in impenetrable mysticism suggests, to me, that the jargon's fulfilling some function other than simply conveying magickal experiences.

I think sometimes there's an overemphasis on the whole 'am I going kerrrazy' thing, when some individuals ought to be more concerned about how wild and exotic their life isn't...
 
 
Mug Chum
10:57 / 26.09.05
It seems to me there are popping more and more new clothes to dress the anti-social wanker. Not quite so "High Mage" or "Dark Magus" anymore, but serious entanglements of incredibly well made inteligent webs. I mean, it seems somehow obvious to me that this type of behaviour has always used the brilliant discourse of the circunstacial current.

I mean, the line between genious and anti-social/individual -wanking self-absortion is pretty fuckin' thin on the adolescent PoV. I can't get enough of people using incredible genious things by making sense or backing up any form of attitude (me included). And it's quite hard to pull the rug and actually challenge it.

Mord*ant said some marvellous things about self-checking. Most (or maybe all of them, can't quite remember now) of the pre-requisites mentioned by him I've been lacking and only been noticing in the last few months.

I just started to notice i've been pretty buried up in greedy thirst for "knowledge" and intelectual pursuits that are blocking far too many important aspects of my life... I mean, for fuck's sake! I'm reading Deleuze and shitloads of semiotics so I can get some self-assuring answers and logical reasoning for why i'm dealing with magick, as if it existed some extreme demand for coherent opnion!!!! When you get to that point of abstraction and discourse, you should confront yourself. Maybe it's nothing. But I'm sure my case it's not nothing. I got an issue with this, with discourse, intelectual wanking, books and writing (well, pretty simple: I'm an armchair wanker!). Or maybe I need to see that I have a issue with it. 'Cause I want self-development, a happier life, more choices, better dance-steps on everyday life and a sense of overall health steem).

It was quite good for me the fact that I smoke marijuana very rarely (or else that could turn out to be my major anti-social block, the everlasting search for escape, what now is so hip to call "alterity" or whatever aesthetics from academia is current this year calls it). And when I smoke, it pretty much throws in my face every social weakness and individual failures we're discussing here. I'm nowhere near the "dark mage" wanker, or "high priestess" wanker. It's a wanking I can't quite put my finger on. It's still on the "outsider" cliche, since I "bought this 'artist' archetype". I've always fitted in the "Adolescent Nieztche Reader", oh-so-evolved-wise-and-above-the-cattle. Nowadays, I can't quite put down in words yet where I'm lying (and I'm trying to not want to that much, since THAT was one of my repetitive anti-social inertia of "finding out through discourse and logic"). I just know I'm trying to stand in a different way. Maybe i don't want to put it in more words than "armchair mage/all".

Maybe the best solution is to confront yourself and throw horrible ways of seeing you life at you (even if it's not truth). Or maybe you just need a friend.

Quite frankly, Marijuana worked for me as a completly opposite of escapism and just challenged me with some horrifying things about my life. I'm trying to have a sense of humour about it and improving these things. It's hard. But i feel it's worth it. And that's good enough.

(again, sorry for misspellings. My english have been quite shit lately)
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:00 / 26.09.05
As a maladaptive coping device magic can work like any fantasy driven life style, cinema, books,martial arts, anything that has an element of fantasy to it to allow the fantasist to escape into a nice cosy environment where they are all powerful. As much as it can act as a crown it can also act as a wooden leg, look at me so powerful above you sheeple scum, but i am just a geek/saddo magician i could never do that......

If you take away all the comforting lifestyle devices are you still doing magick? Remove the altar, the books, the associations, the chat forums, the people associated with the magic, are you still doing magic? Or is it just some scene your involved with because you think its cool and for all those lofty enlightened types?

embrace materialism, heal people by doing some work that helps them, see other peoples real suffering rather than your own internal woe is me dialogue, can you still do magic?

If i give up entirely on it, does it give up on me?
 
 
Shrug
11:10 / 26.09.05
It sounds a bit like a form of Attribution Theory. Or religion as "the opiate of the masses" as applied to magick, a spiritual world that not only endows oneself with a sense of self worth but also one in which the oppressed feel the promise of control. Also one that pre-empts real change.*
*I don't really know anything about magick at all so apologies if this is hideously misinformed.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:12 / 26.09.05
Remove the altar, the books, the associations, the chat forums, the people associated with the magic, are you still doing magic?

Well... yes. I mean, I do need some kit, but if my house burnt down tomorrow I could still function as a filthy witch. I'd just have to be a bit more filthy than usual--go out drifting and scavenge what I needed.

I'd miss contact with other magicians, not because hanging out with magicians is what defines me but because that's one of the things that helps me keep an eye on my practice. One reason I hang round the Temple forum is because it constantly challenges me, constantly makes me rethink my work, reminds me of how far I've still got to go. There's some very heavy-duty people here.
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:15 / 26.09.05
I have done most of the above at somepoint, but the chat forums, for years i survived without the things, but now, a hopeless addict.
 
 
ghadis
11:42 / 26.09.05
I would say that using magic as a coping device and shield against the outside world is, as MC pointed out, something that most if not all magicians have an experience of in one way or another. Even the most accomplished magician has their blind spots. Actively exploring yourself, your relationship to the world and any hang-ups and problems that arise along the way should be a major part of the practice. Magic can be an effective way to explore and maybe solve any problems that come up but it won?t get anyone very far if all they do is sit in their room wanking over sigils for lottery wins or casting curses at the boss at work.

I?d say that I have quite a few problems and issues that have affected my life badly since my teens. I?d done a pretty good job at suppressing and ignoring them over the years but various problems with my relationships with partners, to work, etc keep coming up and fucking up my life. I?ve added to this with an escalating drink problem which just recently I?ve found to have entered another dodgy stage, that of being, something I never thought I?d be, a nasty drunk where I project all of my inner turmoil outwards towards people and situations around me. I think I was particularly horrible at a recent Barbelith meet. ?

Now I?ve done quite a bit of magic over the last few months that has been aimed at getting to the root of all this. It?s been pretty hard going at times, dragging up stuff I?d not thought about for 25 years or so but I defiantly think I?m getting somewhere with it all. I don?t think the magical work is the end of it of course. Getting some counselling is needed I think and cutting down or giving up the booze also.

What I?m getting at I guess is that magic can be huge exploration into yourself and the universe or it can be a pretty good bag of sand. I would say the same about religion.
 
 
ghadis
11:47 / 26.09.05
Why do i always get a question mark instead of an apostrophe when i post?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:51 / 26.09.05
Turn off smart quotes.
 
 
illmatic
11:56 / 26.09.05
Totally. And it flips between the two. One thing I think that provides part of the compulsion that isn't fully addressed in Ganesh's opening posts is that, at times, it bloody works. You do something, something clicks and things aren't the same again. Perhaps a dream will speak to you, perhaps some incredibly unlikely conincidences pile up, perhaps some metaphors and symbols come alive in a way that lets you really makse sense of a part of yourself. Either way, against the odds, it's worked.

And what's hard - and we all do it - is not to turn this insight into something we get identified with, something to be precious and protective about, something with which we boost our egos and self-image, rather than staying with the openess and experimentation that caused it to happen in the first place. But as others have said it's a continually process of re-learning. Some Buddhist writing deals with this sort of thing quite explictly.

Wpiw: You weren't obnoxious at all (at least to me). You did look pretty fucked off though.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:09 / 26.09.05
Can you make reference to the buddhist texts please.
 
 
illmatic
12:13 / 26.09.05
I was thinking of anything by Choygam Trungpa, especially "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" - which is ironic, because from the sounds of things, he was an abusive egotistical shitbag, but ain't they all?
 
 
ghadis
12:16 / 26.09.05
Thanks Mordant. Not sure how to do that though.

I think the nasty drunk thing is about not being used to some of the emotions and anger that is coming out of my practice. Im just not used to being anrgy, as ive always coped with it by burying it someplace, so it comes out as frustration at myself, and after a few beers, at people around me. Anyway i'm rotting the thread somewhat.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:48 / 26.09.05
I am hoping not, but sometimes i think perhaps everybody is, a little power and responsibility can go to the head.
 
 
Seth
12:49 / 26.09.05
Also, do any Temple-frequenters feel their magickal practice waxes and wanes in direct or inverse proportion to their sense of achievement in other areas of their lives?

Absolutely. Why get into large-scale work to change yourself when you're happy and satisfied with who you are? If it ain't broke...

At these times my practise becomes something more background, the stuff I use all the time. Speaking in tongues, drumming, meditation, some of the sensory or sub-modalities or self-talk stuff, prayer, socialising and a little bit of driftwork as Gypsy puts it... not much else.

Like now. I'm not posting here much because, apart from the above, I'm not involved in anything particularly of interest to a web-forum that talks about magic. I'm happy and doing what I want to be doing.
 
 
Quantum
14:51 / 26.09.05
I find that my practice falters when I'm depressed. Rather than a coping mechanism or escape (I have reading, roleplaying, and drugs for that) it's almost a luxury. I can only practice properly when everything's going alright, otherwise I'm just coasting along doing the minimum. For me magic's not a place to hide so much as a work to do, and if my self-esteem's low I just find it really hard- confidence is a prerequisite in my case.
More on this anon, fascinating thread- ta Ganesh!
 
 
*
16:29 / 26.09.05
I do find that I don't do much divination unless my life is in serious flux and I feel out of control, and I don't do much sorcery unless I feel like I need something in the material world that depends on forces that are outside of my control in the usual sense. In that sense magic is a prop for me— it gives me permission to make tough decisions based on intuition in addition to facts and a feeling of being more prepared for future events, and it allows me to feel I have control over my own destiny so that I can be more productive and won't simply succumb to fear and hopelessness. These are pretty standard anthropological explanations for the practice of magic, borne out by my experience. But the majority of my work is interacting with entities and faring forth, and I can't do this if there are real world issues which need paying attention to more than Thee Hygher Plane(tm). I think this is sort of built into my practice, that if I'm able to do anything worthwhile then it needs to be done, or at least it's not interfering with what needs to be done.

I think what is vital in keeping our balance is simply an awareness that the "real" world is just as important, just as mysterious and cool, just as sacred, just as much the realm of the 'magician' as Thee Hygher Plane, and if you are a 'magician', then you have to work on both effectively. Some hatters give lip service to this idea while still believing at a fundamental level that the "real" world is less important than whatever their practice is, and these folks are in danger, I think. Sometimes you have to put the "real" world out of your mind for a time, to be able to work on something without distraction, but one has to recognize that the real world is only less important at that moment.
 
 
rising and revolving
17:04 / 26.09.05
"Also, do any Temple-frequenters feel their magickal practice waxes and wanes in direct or inverse proportion to their sense of achievement in other areas of their lives?"

Vice versa. My sense of achivement in other areas of my life waxes and wanes in direct proportion to my practice. The more work I do, the better my life is and the more fulfiled I am in each moment. When I slack off, I find that I am more irritable, generally troublesome, agressive, and less understanding.

On the other hand, if my life is a bit rough, I find it harder to get the motivation to do my daily work. But that's when it's most important.

Also, I go through periods where I take a break because I can't handle the changes I'm going through - it's coming too hard, too fast. This is generally when I take my time off. After a while, I begin to learn the lessons I need through immersion, and I feel able to return to my regular practice again. Generally this involves me finishing out the lesson I've learned and moving on to the next threshold. It's this dynamic that I find generally informs my practice - a rhythm of reaching threshold, taking a break, integrating, moving on, reaching threshold and so on.

Each time I approach the wall with more resources ...

To a large extent though, I'm much more into theurgy and self-transformation than directly influencing the world. "Give me what I need to change, not what I want" is my mantra. Ultimately, if my practice *didn't* improve the other areas of my life (often by shining light on the darker portions of my self) I wouldn't do it.
 
 
Mmothra
17:09 / 26.09.05
Illmatic said: I was thinking of anything by Choygam Trungpa, especially "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" - which is ironic, because from the sounds of things, he was an abusive egotistical shitbag, but ain't they all?

I second the recommendation of this book but I think your criticism of Trungpa is a unfair and ironically falls under the category of Spiritual Materialism in as much as you are expecting him to be something other than a normal human being. Tibetan Lamas have egos, too.
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:15 / 26.09.05
"Pema Chodron: My undying devotion to Trungpa Rinpoche comes from his teaching me in every way he could that you can never make things right or wrong. I consider it my good fortune that somehow I was thrown into a way of understanding Buddhism which in the Zen tradition is called "don't know mind": Don't know. Don't know right. Don't know wrong. As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to make things right and wrong you can never even talk about fulfilling your bodhisattva vows."

I found this quote to a question given by a disciple of Choygam Trungpa, i think it makes an intresting point in relation to magickal practice as well as bodhisattva vows.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:09 / 26.09.05
Why get into large-scale work to change yourself when you're happy and satisfied with who you are? If it ain't broke...

Yeah, but things have a way of dropping on you, shaking you up. You don't always get to potter along in the same old magical routine just coz you're contented with it. Sometimes you'll get that tap on the shoulder to take it to another level, or go off on a new angle; ignore it, and you might find you don't stay happy and contented for long...
 
 
grant
21:39 / 26.09.05
I don't have too much to add that other people haven't already said better than I can.

Two things strike me:

1. My better half, she's seeing a Jungian therapist. She needs supervision hours to get social work licensure, and insurance helps pay for it, and it's pretty interesting (and I think it makes her feel better about life). What's weird is that the therapist, who as far as I know is just getting this stuff from the world of counseling/psychotherapy (although not as "medical" as psychiatry), seems to be reading a lot of the same stuff I've read that I'd typify as magick stuff. Books on gnosticism. Eastern esotericism. That Ramsey Dukes people mentioned here a while back seems right up her alley.

So I think there may be a permeable membrane between "magicky stuff" and counseling/"self-help" (whatever that is).

2. I wonder if the maladaptive coping mechanism you're describing might follow the same model as the dual-diagnosis (mental illness-substance abuse) model that has people self-medicating with substance-of-choice. Smoking heaps of dope to keep the schizophrenic voices at bay, drinking heavily to neutralize chronic pain, that kind of thing. Apparently (speaking as a timid, awkward, bookish type), this kind of activity does work, just with a bunch of associated baggage & side-effects.
 
  

Page: (1)2345

 
  
Add Your Reply