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Psychic Vampires- A Good or a Bad Thing?

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:13 / 09.09.05
Quantum: Appalling isn't the half of it. The Codex presents a bunch of "vampire" symptoms that could stem from pretty much anything, from stress, hormonal imbalance or poor diet to some much more serious condition that might need medical attention.

It attributes these to psychic vampirism, telling sufferers that it's all down to their having done some kickass vampire hmajyyk back when they were an Egyptian priest which has fucked up their belly chakra. Which of course cannot be fixed, because it's not really a damaged chakra, it's meant to be like that because they're mighty mighty willful vampires! Not like us boring normal unfucked-chakra having muggles! No, don't even try to fix that energy centre, it makes you special. Don't try to normalise your energy body, just carry on sucking the life out of anyone daft enough to let you for the rest of your darque and mysteryous exystence.

Ye Gods.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:14 / 09.09.05
It comes across as if the characteristics of a “vampire” as defined by Daynah (who I strongly disagree with on all of this, but who I think has been supernaturally patient and agreeable in the face of some pretty harsh criticism) are more to do with the – to my mind, pathological - belief that energy is like a juice that needs to be drawn out of other things, as opposed to being a universal current that is embraced.

If you’re genuinely interested in moving out of the vampiric model of energy work into something that you might find a bit more healthy, then I’m more than happy to write up some notes and ideas for you that you might find useful. PM about it though, cos I’m not going to waste my time writing stuff up for you if you’re not going to give it a go.
 
 
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14:16 / 09.09.05
It seems good that you're looking at it from that type of perspective and approaching it like a problem that you're attached to. I'm obviously biased though, being into some of the Buddhist methods myself. From here it looks like what you have to do is find some suitable techniques to replace the Vampiric method you use to obtain energy.

I'm glad Gypsy has posted what he has aswell, because I've been thinking more or less the same thing as I've read this, and seeing what he's written has saved me from making this post a lot longer. One thing that's struck me is that doing this is preventing you more and more from finding your own ways of getting the energy you need. Also that the practice of taking energy in the way you're doing seems like an easy way to save yourself from doing the work of finding ways that could be a lot better for you. The body has to be looked after in order to function properly, so when you think about it the energy deficiency could be your body's way of pointing out to you one or more of a myriad problems you might need to work on. If this is the case, then taking energy from others appears like a pretty dangerous thing to do, because what you could be doing there is basically ignoring your body's calls to you that something is wrong and using the energy that you're taking as a stop-gap to correct that, leaving the problem(s) unsolved.

Granted, it'll surely take a lot more effort to get the energy you need in different ways, but if you do manage to do it you'll probably feel a lot more content and at peace with yourself, especially if you do have a Buddhist outlook on things. It should make a lot of the Buddhist philosophy click a lot better for you aswell if you can do this.
 
 
Quantum
14:21 / 09.09.05
supernaturally patient and agreeable GL

Heh, despite her protestations to the contrary Daynah is Master of the Discipline of Thaumaturgical Tolerance. I would've freaked out on us long ago.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:24 / 09.09.05
Very true. I've seen posters, especially new posters, chuck massive spam tantrums over far slighter disputes. Daynah, I'm sorry you've had a bit of a baptism of fire here, and I hope everything works out for you.
 
 
daynah
14:26 / 09.09.05
Actually, the energy model I was taught in buddhism has the energy from earth and "the heavens", aka the elements as a different energy as life energy, which is what we believe we're taking.

I've said it a few times... the energy I expend to get energy from those objects is more energy than I get out from those objects.

Lemme try to say it differently... it is incredibly difficult to get energy out of the ground, for me at least. I have done it once, maybe twice. Very, very hard. It gives me migraines... it's more like a, "Haha! I did it! Roar! Yes!" kind of thing... because I got like... a penny worth of energy. But I used up a LOT of energy. I wasted so much energy to do that.

Which is unethical. I had taken energy from people before that day, and then wasted the energy I had stolen from them, to try to get energy from the ground.

Now, for those vampires who are so awesome at energy manipulation that they can get any type of energy they can from any object, all the power to you. I can't. And to continue to do so, is wasting energy. Stolen energy in the first place.

I don't think the earth has life energy. The earth has earth energy. The living has living energy. The air has air energy. There's also emotional energy, like metta, loving-kindness.

Quantum, are you reading the online version "The Vampire Codex" the physical "The Vampire Codex" or the online "The Psychic Vampire Codex" or the physical "The Psychic Vampire Codex"

What happened was that when it fiiirst got published it was called simply The Vampire Codex. But someone, I believe I know who but it wont make any difference to you, decided that he wanted it to be more... life styler-y. So, he typed it up made it oh so beautiful and...

cheesy

and put it online. Thus the first online version. Michelle didn't really have a problem with this. It made a nice distinction between who actually bought the book and was serious about wanting to know more, and who was just some kid who couldn't be caught with books like that under their mattress, so they read it online and got all the information wrong. Then, when Michelle wrote a rewrite, she made her own online version. The second version is called "The Psychic Vampire Codex" (shows that the community progressively gains a hatred towards sanguinarians, vampires who drink blood, and I'll debate about them in a new topic after waiting a month, since I don't drink blood). The online and physical are much closer alike than the first version but there are still differences, like leaving out some of the time lines and what not.

Point is, the main flaw I find in the book is it's written, like you saw, in a very, "Well, now that you know you're a vampire..." style. And you can get this book in BORDERS for god's sake! So people randomly pick up this book and go, "Well Gosh! I'm a vampire!"

Uuuh uuuh uuh NO! Arg. Makes me so angry.

The odd thing is, the book, like I said before, is mostly a very hippy book about energy working. Anyone can do energy working. Anyone. That's apart of being human. But then, in it's language, it makes it sound like, by being able to do energy working, you're a vampire.

That's not the stance Michelle takes. I've spoken with her and she actually has much higher standards for "what makes a vampire" than even I have (though I meet them, oddly enough) but it still bothers me that she intentionally went out and got it published with these views that she doesn't seem to go with.

End rant.

Daynah, dude, build yourself an orgone acculmulator.

Do you mind if I alter that and make that a signature on a vampire mailing list?
 
 
illmatic
14:35 / 09.09.05
Daynah: Go for your life.

You might find it worthwhile to do a search on "energy" in this forum, and dig up some of the discussions, some of which have been pretty good. Can't be bothered to do it myself, too late, too Friday.
 
 
daynah
14:39 / 09.09.05
Daynah is Master of the Discipline of Thaumaturgical Tolerance.

Naah, I just got some last night.

Eon, granted, I have been to the doctor for this, many a time. Said I had lyme disease. Tests came up negative and I got sent home. The vampire community also has this habit of... when a potential vampire comes in and says, "I think I'm a vampire." we say, "No you're not. You're an idiot. Go to the doctor." Honestly? We act like you. Except... not as long, because it gets boring after the tenth person that day.
 
 
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14:45 / 09.09.05
Actually, the energy model I was taught in buddhism has the energy from earth and "the heavens", aka the elements as a different energy as life energy, which is what we believe we're taking.

I've said it a few times... the energy I expend to get energy from those objects is more energy than I get out from those objects.


Well then try and think of it in a different way. The body/mind could be looked at like a filter, and attachements/habits/etc are the things that block that filter. If you can go through life and rid yourself of these things, then you'll have more energy and won't need to take it from anywhere else, because it will already be present within you.

The act of clearing away attachements allows the universal energy to flow through you, so if you work through them you simply won't feel the need to take energy anymore. What'll possibly happen is that instead of spending time trying to obtain energy, you'll be working on ways to make yourself feel better and better by harmonizing energy within yourself instead, working with energy rather than looking around for it.

It really does seem like you're spending your time looking around for something that should already be present within you, and that if you try enough, any Vampiric stuff you do will become more and more redundant.

That is if you really want to do that, of course.
 
 
Quantum
14:48 / 09.09.05
I'm reading the online one Mordant linked upthread (it's dreadful IMO, and supports the view that it's all a mad self-esteem protecting delusion. Pretentious is not a strong enough word.)

In the other thread cusm tells a story about someone who suffered from something like this which ends;

She's finally cured now, by the way. It took years of help, support and fighting. Then finally she found something to live for, forgot her traumas, got deeply involved in voodoo and the lwa rewrote her from the ground up and that patched it up right. It was pretty amazing, she had to go through a complete rebirth into a new life to get away from it.

So I'm thinking, along the lines of GL's offer, what sort of cures are most successful?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:59 / 09.09.05
It feels rather odd to write it, given everything, but:

Listen to Eon. He speaks a lot of sense.
 
 
daynah
15:00 / 09.09.05
I am doing just that to try to erradicate the vampirism.

From a buddhist perspective, vampirism is merely attachment to energy beyond one's own. I just have to get rid of that attachment. And things have been getting progressively better. There have been times when I've honestly say around with symptoms for hours upon hours. Honestly, the entire time I've been sitting around here posting, I've been kind of shaky. But I don't have that mental, "Oh my gosh I have to get some energy right now! Aah!"

I can go much longer without taking energy from someone. I am on consumed by the thoughts of the community and energy working. Tai Chi helps me waste less, so I need to take less. Meditation helps me focus more, so it takes less time, and I use less energy when I'm taking energy from someone.

I'm running much more efficient. But once I completely get rid of that attachment, guess what that is?

I'll be pretty darn close to enlightenment, boys and girlies, and all the other genders I forgot. And that takes a lot of time.

For now, I'm just going to be happy with the progress I've accomplished, try to do some more. And, more importantly to me, try to keep the other types of vampires from thinking that they're psychic vampires. It messes them up incredibly.

----

she would grow physically ill and start to waste away. I've seen it happen when she's tried to go "cold turkey" with it.

That sounds quite like what happens when people try to go cold turkey. I have been healing, but when I tried to go cold turkey, I got much worse and ended up needing more energy.

It had to do with not really wanting to live, and in a very real psychological way, existing in a depressed undead limbo disconnected from the world and living.

But this disturbs me. That does not describe me in anyway shape or form. Like I said before, this could very well be completely made up in my mind (that's how buddhism explains everything. Everything is a delusion.) but... it's not going to be the same reason for everyone.

Do you know what I'm saying? It would be unfair to try to group all vampires in that undead depressed limbo. BUT to group them in a pathological disorder, makes sense.

You may want to word it differently when saying it to a less patient vampire though if you're trying to converse with them. They probably would get offended.
 
 
daynah
15:03 / 09.09.05
Must add...

by the same coin though, those who believe in vampires and in energy can reconcile this "it comes from their head" by realizing that either...

a) they create their own reality. They give themselves the symptoms.

or...

b) they damage their own chakra or energy body without even thinking directly about it, but by being so concerned with taking others energy.
 
 
---
15:05 / 09.09.05
We act like you. Except... not as long, because it gets boring after the tenth person that day.

So I guess if what I'm trying to say is boring to you, you probably aren't really that bothered about doing anything about it then. I was trying to come at it from an angle that I thought you'd maybe see a little clearer. Just being here is a form of attachement when you look at it from a Buddhist perspective, so when you think about it, if that's right then so is your problem.

You don't need to take energy from others, and even though you're coming across as being cool about it, it seems more like you're trying to avoid confrontation than you are actually looking for a way to solve it.

To go about stealing it from people or from pencils is like mugging someone for a glass of water when you live next to an open resevoir.

That sums it up better than any long ranting on the situation really, I was trying to think of a way if putting it when I remembered this.

Another one could be that you seem to be sat in the dark with your back to a floodlight whilst trying and trying to start up a generator, just to light a 60 watt bulb. It's so much easier to do it differently.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
15:24 / 09.09.05
I’m prepared to accept that there may arguably be a form of universal something that behaves like “energy” in the manner of chi, orgone, et al. But you now seem to be saying that what you vampirise is something completely different: “life energy” which can apparently only be taken from living things and is of a different order to the kind of energy that everyone else in this thread has been talking about. I don’t go with that at all. Where is the precedent for it outside of what you and the vampire community have chosen to believe. It really does sound like something out of a fantasy novel, rather than anything that correlates with any of the various models of energy work that actually exist in magical theory and practice throughout the world. It sounds to me as if the distinction exists purely in your own mind, and your vampiric nature is intimately connected to how you frame your relationship with energy.

You say that it takes more energy to get energy out of the earth than it does to get it from a human, so that is unethical because the energy you are using is stolen anyway. It’s bollocks. You don’t have to “steal” energy. You are a human being. “Every man and woman is a star.” You are entitled to your fill of energy from the universe and it will give it to you. You are alive. Chi Kung is not an effort. It doesn’t expend energy to take in chi. Breathe. Do the exercises. Repeat. Don’t expect instant results over night. It’s accumulative. Keep at it. Open yourself up to it. Stop trying to take things. Stop straining to get energy out of a brick – it’s ridiculous. You can have access to all of the energy you will ever need, the only thing stopping you from doing so is your vampirism and the beliefs you have about it.
 
 
Anthony
15:31 / 09.09.05
Don Juan or no Don Juan, i will not accept that we can be victims unless we allow ourselves to be victims. (in reference to the particular subject under discussion. I was not discussing rape but energy vampirism) You could say that this belief is a particular choice, and maybe even a way of saying "don't feed here".
 
 
Anthony
15:34 / 09.09.05
ie, i will concede that there are people who may seek to provoke a certain kind of reaction, but if we give them the reaction that they are seeking then we are dumb and equally responsible as them.
 
 
daynah
15:45 / 09.09.05
I'm sorry this has changed into a "How to change Daynah into being and thinking like us." thread.

I'm progressing on my path. The change isn't happening over night but it has been happening. It's not only been fixing my energy, but been bringing me closer to enlightenment, making me more patient and kinder than I was.
 
 
Quantum
16:09 / 09.09.05
I'm about to start an 'Are we unconscious participants in victimisation?' thread, see you there Anth.

Daynah- thank you kindly for your explication of the vampire perspective, it makes much more sense from you than from the online PsychoKindredCodex :] and although I don't agree with what you say you express it admirably.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:11 / 09.09.05
Daynah, this hasn't been about trying to coerce you into a different way of thinking and being. It so happened that you came to the table with a magical model that most of us disagree with, and fairly passionately. Your genuine efforts to engage with the board and debate this model do you much credit.

However, if someone came to one of the fora where you post and talked about engaging in a practice that you thought might be unethical, dangerous, and detrimental to their long-term wellbeing, wouldn't you challenge them on it? Even if it seemed okay to them? I don't think it's anymore healthy to support and enable risky practices in magic than it is to support risky practices in skateboarding or cookery.
 
 
daynah
16:24 / 09.09.05
I think I understand you better now, M*rdant. Earlier, it seemed to me like everyone was very concerned with the person being fed upon's well being, when vampires can every precaution to try to protect them, within the vampire's belief system.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:32 / 09.09.05
I guess that's because we don't identify as vampires, hence the tendency to identify more with "lunch."

But someone in the vampire role is also at risk from a variety of factors: illness (I would say psychosomatic, but nonetheless unpleasant for that), guilt-tripping and emotional blackmail by "sources," and the sort of all-around limiting factor that identifying too strongly with a single archetype can exercise.

I've even heard of self-identified vampires being physically assaulted by psychos who identify as "vampire hunters." Is that true or is it a paranoid fantasy? I've known people messed up enough to do that. In any case, it doesn't sound like a great lifestyle to get stuck in.
 
 
macrophage
16:38 / 09.09.05
I think everyone has their own unique paths to take, it maybe a form of dharma in a way. I don't think it seems the right thing to do, to belittle someone if they believe they conform to what constitutes a Vampire.

This seems to have enveloped into an ontological, and an energy modelling cat-fight.

I do energy work, I am starting to try and branch out from the generic 7 chakras of Yoga, in my personal experience I have found out that there are now chakras on my hands and feet, maybe this is emblemic of chakra and energy work, it seems a process of ascending the mountains, a never ending grail. I don't do Tai Chi but I like to practise Soto Zen as much as I can and Autogenic Training and Biofeedback and tour energy as in the orbit (kuji in) sometimes.

If we look at daily life even the mundane as a part of a never ending intiation, then I think that if you want to go through obsessions and personas (ultimately masks of glamours) then that's the Way.

You just can't superimpose Thelema onto everybody if you practise Thelemic thought and its inherent belief systems. Not everyone will grok that.

The cyberpunks said "Information Wants To Be Free," so should belief and dogmatic sytems, everyone can borrow from whatever as long as they can progress how they see fit into their own personal psychocosms and time-lines.

Magick or energy systems and even internal martial arts or systems of meditations or ways to practise no form, well they seem highly personalised to the inviduated states we impose on ourselves.

We all conform to other systems that are not our own untill we gain the foot hold to make up our own unique systems.
 
 
daynah
16:40 / 09.09.05
There are vampire hunters. And you people think I'm crazy. Luckily, they tend to only like to go after the sanguinarians (the blood drinkers). Those who do go after the psychic vampires are the particularly odd ones. We have ways to get around them... basically, the legal system. Know what we say...

"That dude thinks I'm a vampire and is trying to kill me!"

Media will love it, too.

But... the nice thing about psychic vampirism is that you're not all that "stuck" with it. You don't have to be with the community. I was a vampire, and did vampire things for a while in my life before I knew another vampire or called it that. And that protects me from vampire hunters (there's no way to prove you're a vampire, you have to be going around calling yourself one for them to know).

We don't believe you can stop the need instantly, but you aren't stuck in the lifestyle.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:45 / 09.09.05
Macrophage, I honestly don't think there's been an attempt to impose Thelemic thought here. (I for one am not a Thelemite, I'm a filthy heathen witch.)

Some Thelema-flavoured practices were offered as being of potential benefit, sure, but what mostly happened was an examination of the energy model as it relates to the possibility of psychic vampirism.

I think it's important to challenge and interrogate the energy model, because it seems to have got such a stranglehold on magical thought. I do work within the energy model at times--I'm a Reiki and SKHM practitioner, and I find it helpful in that context. But I never forget that I'm using a model, and that whatever process is taking place may be quite, quite different.
 
 
daynah
16:50 / 09.09.05
Remember when the atom model was the nucleus with the little circles around it for the electron paths? Then it was Shrek/Onion like? But then it was like a cloud? And now it's got multiple universes?

I think you just pick which ever one works for your purposes, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else and as long as you're healthy in the end, and stick with it.

Healthy: You can get up, do what you have to do and what you want to do and get up and do it again tomorrow.

I can do that.
 
 
Quantum
17:09 / 09.09.05
The problem with that 'everyone can believe what they like' idea is the people who like to believe they're allowed to take advantage of other people. If my model of the world is me in the middle and loads of non-sentient victims floating about the periphery, I'm a psycho- or sociopath. Some beliefs are not OK from my belief system's point of view, and I'll fight against them.
 
 
daynah
17:19 / 09.09.05
...that's where the not harming others comes into play...
 
 
macrophage
17:22 / 09.09.05
Surely if you harm none and get consent then it maybe OK?
 
 
Quantum
17:36 / 09.09.05
Now, the Psychic Vampire Codex. Amongst the many, many reasons it fills me with horror are quotes like these;

We thirst for life and we feed upon it.
It is our greatest weakness and our greatest prize.


Sounds like Highlander, or bad manga, or Teh Maskeraid.
 
 
daynah
17:38 / 09.09.05
We call these people "donors."

Often times, unfortunately, the people who come up to vampires and volunteer to be donors are... messed up in the head. Have preconceived notions about vampires with romantic ideals and if a psychic vampire were to agree to that, it would just be furthering to worsen their mental condition. They're a little too obsessed over vampires. If they don't have the need, then there's no need for them to be randomly running in and become obsessed. They need to leave.

Other donors are lovers or close friends that find out that the vampire is in fact a vampire and says, "You know what, that makes sense to me, you can drain me." usually the vampire waits a while to make sure that the friend really was serious with their intention, but then everything works out peachy keen. They're great because they generally aren't obsessed with the word "vampire", they're just close friends. It's nice to have someone who understands. And then you have that permission.
 
 
Quantum
17:38 / 09.09.05
Sorry, I should have made it clear I wasn't calling you a sociopath and I had read your post.
The problem is with the assumption that your belief system is *right*. You believe it's not harming people, but what do they believe? What if they disagree, and think it DOES harm them?
 
 
daynah
17:39 / 09.09.05
Quantum, put the book down. Just put the book down. You will be much happier with yourself.
 
 
Quantum
17:45 / 09.09.05
More from the online codex-

Like us, many of the Awakened follow a particular archetype. They use this archetype as a symbol to define themselves and their powers. They have a fundamental connection to the energy of this archetype, and although human in body, they are something more in spirit. Angels, witches, the Fey, Otherkin, Shifters, these are but a few of the archetypes that may be followed.

That's ripped straight off white wolf, including the terminology 'Awakened', and presumably applies to the practitioners here.

It's the worst form of essentialism, that some people have *special* intrinsic qualities (a spirit) and are a metaphysical elite, innately different to the muggles. Rubbish.
 
 
daynah
17:48 / 09.09.05
The problem is with the assumption that your belief system is *right*. You believe it's not harming people, but what do they believe? What if they disagree, and think it DOES harm them?

Because it's my belief system, of course I believe it's right. Otherwise, it wouldn't be my belief system.

That's the same for your belief system.

When people don't want something to happen to them energy-wise, you can feel it. Even if that person is not an energy worker or anything like that. It's very quick and sudden. The energy takes a bit more force to pull out. You should never force energy out of anyone. Just stop. Your mistake, whateva.

Ever been on a date and someone leaned over to kiss you when you really didn't want to be kissed? You could scream and have a fit or you could say, "Don't worry about it, just don't kiss me again." I see it sort of like that.

Now energy workers reply very differently. Just touch them with your energy and they'll send you a reply of whether that's acceptable or not. Their reply is generally much more obvious, intentionally to make sure that you "heard" it. Which means if they didn't want you touching them, you could be gettin' a big ole energy slap in the face.

Usually, unless someone's a butt, after that send and reply, that's it. The two parties stop connecting and go about their seperate ways. Again, it's like a... "oops, sorry, I thought it was okay to kiss you, I see that it's not, I wont mess with you anymore."

Like us, many of the Awakened follow a particular archetype. They use this archetype as a symbol to define themselves and their powers. They have a fundamental connection to the energy of this archetype, and although human in body, they are something more in spirit. Angels, witches, the Fey, Otherkin, Shifters, these are but a few of the archetypes that may be followed.

I'm not going to defend a bit of that. Except to repeat... please, for god's sake, put the book down. You're just working yourself up now.

Energy working, the thing I've been describing this whole time, is something everyone can do. Anyone can do anything a vampire can do, including draining someone. The only thing about draining that someone may have a problem with is when you're 100% full and you take more energy, sometimes you get a little sick, if you're not really good at spreading the energy out evenly amongst your body. In fact, I'm extremely bad at doing that unless I'm doing Tai Chi (the reason I started Tai Chi in the first place).
 
  

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