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Psychic Vampires- A Good or a Bad Thing?

 
  

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Quantum
10:25 / 08.09.05
So in another thread I looked at this link about vampyres, where the author says;

"Psychic vampirism is a well-known phenomenon in the metaphysical community, yet it is widely misunderstood. Many authors have tackled this subject, but most have remained outsiders looking in. Information on what psychic vampires are and what they do remains incomplete without the perspective of the vampires themselves."

I am unfortunately extremely biased against the whole idea, so I can't provide a civilised perspective, but it seemed worthy of discussion. I urge posters please to keep it polite, no screams of 'Burn the undead!' or suck gags, if anyone knows any pro-vampyres please invite them.

The Vampire subculture is severalfold- there's the sexual side (see encyclopervia for details) largely about the fetish. There's the Goth style element (here's a good article from the Xian perspective) and the Live Action Roleplay (LARP) and storytelling side (Almost entirely based on White Wolf's Masquerade) but most Vamps are I suspect into all of these.

So, people who self-identify as Vampires; a good or a bad thing? Dion Fortune mentions them, many new age books give advice on protecting against them, there aren't many AFAIK, and they don't really burst into flame in sunlight.

To start with- How do you justify stealing energy? Is it all a repressed rape fantasy? How do real vampires compare to fictional ones? Is it all about the style? Do they fear religious symbols? How do they compare with other otherkin?
 
 
Anthony
11:01 / 08.09.05
i'm not 100% sure they exist. Perhaps it's just another way people have devised to demonise others. If they do exist, it could imo only be through an implicit agreement on the part of the "victim".
 
 
Quantum
11:07 / 08.09.05
If you have a click on those links, you'll see some compelling evidence that people who self identify as Vamps do in fact exist. For example;
Welcome to the official website of occult author, Michelle Belanger!
Michelle is the author of the Psychic Vampire Codex, co-author of V, founder of House Kheperu, and author of the revised Black Veil.
 
 
Ganesh
11:18 / 08.09.05
Hmm, I remember posting about this once before...

Some people are certainly exhausting to be around, and 'psychic vampirism' sounds to me like a spook-flavoured reframing of that. Being a psychiatrist, I'd tend to view the phenomenon in terms of personality disorder. It often sounds a li-i-ittle like a relatively self-esteem preserving way of saying, "I can't seem to keep friends for very long".
 
 
Ganesh
11:26 / 08.09.05
Heeere we go.

Look how professional I've become in the last three years! I now say "personality disorder" rather than "pains in the arse". Yay me!
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:28 / 08.09.05
Why the need to justify the accumulation of energy, people are doing this all the time through food, social relationships, sexual interactions etc. To me some body calling themselves a psychic vampire has alot in common with traditional chinese medicine, ie they view the body as an energy field. they understand that everything else is also an energy field (and may comprehend that its all one vast energy field, in that context nothing can be stolen or gained.) they are very aware of the interaction.

Its culturally are very old phenomena in the east, stealing of ojas or chi, more so to china with what i am aware of.

Life feeds on life, i dont have a problem with that, conscious choice of unconscious need whats the difference.

Also it seems to typify the cultural phenomena of capitalism, interaction as consumption. I think its actually a healthy relation to a consumer society and indeed shows alot of truthes prevalent amongst the members of that society.

How long have people been feeding on each other, since there were two people? just a guess.
 
 
Quantum
11:35 / 08.09.05
A healthy relation to a consumer society? Hmm.

Ah, ta for the linki your Ganeshness- I searched the Temple but got nothing.
 
 
Quantum
11:38 / 08.09.05
I'd tend to view the phenomenon in terms of personality disorder.
How about the fetish side? Vampire codependant couples? There are vampyres with long term friends and vampire communities, so it's not just a disorder. (This is my devil's advocate face.)
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:19 / 08.09.05
Stake through the heart, metaphorical or otherwise. I have no time for "vampires" of any variety. They can fuck off. That is all.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:28 / 08.09.05
I once read a good piece about the stake through the heart, the idea was this, a vampire is somebody without empathy, someone who has closed and sealed there heart, cold feeling. they take there warm feelings from others.

The stake in the heart becomes awake up call getting that person to face the pain within them so literally the heart bursts and the pain, the blood flows til the cold unempathic person regains some sense of perspective again.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:30 / 08.09.05
Wolfangel: Total bollocks. There is a difference between the constant flow and mutual exchange of energy that goes on between people all the time - and the vampirism of such things. A "psychic vampire" takes but doesn't give anything back, just leaves you feeling drained and exhausted by being around them. I don't need people like that in my life, thanks very much.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:32 / 08.09.05
Above comment was in relation to your post about psychic vampirism and Chi in the Chinese medicine sense. I agree with you on the stake through the heart thing.
 
 
Ganesh
12:40 / 08.09.05
How about the fetish side? Vampire codependant couples? There are vampyres with long term friends and vampire communities, so it's not just a disorder. (This is my devil's advocate face.)

Naturally I'm not rubberstamping the entirety of the subculture 'PERSONALITY DISORDER'. I'm talking specifically about those individuals who proudly style themselves 'psychic vampires', thus making a spookysexy virtue of the fact that they're a pain to be around, and quickly alienate/wear out friends, family and acquaintances.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:19 / 08.09.05
You know, I'm still not convinced this phenomenon--deliberately or accidently slurping up "psychic energy" (whatever the fuck that is) from other people--even exists, or if something else is going on. I'm absolutely certain that it's nowhere near as common as people seem to assume. I think the idea that there are psychic vampires everywhere, walking around sucking up chi, is one of those articles of faith that gets passed dutifully from text to text without anyone actually sitting down and questioning it. Nice convenient way to get out of dealing constructivly with one's own problems: "Oh, I know I should go and do some work on my novel, but I was just so drained by [name of person you don't like]. Oh, I know I should go out for a walk now and then, but there are evil spirits in the road that drain chi out through my feet. Oh, I know people keep telling me to get a social life, but I'm so sensitive--what if I was to run into one of those awful psychic vampires?"

I think the whole "vampire" identity thing usually ends up being a limiting factor on a person. All the self-proclaimed "vampires" I've ever encountered (I'm interested in Reiki and energy healing and also a bit of an old Goff, so I do run into them) had this kind of Procrustian Bed thing going on, where any drives, desires, ambitions or aptitudes that didn't fit in with that identity got sliced off. Also, in the case of punters who were into magic, their whole magical practice was wrapped up in the vampire thing. All a bit sad.

I guess my problem with the whole vampire identity thing isn't that it's TEH EEEEEVAL!!1! just that it's... well, kind of lame.
 
 
Quantum
14:03 / 08.09.05
POLITENESS, I'm trying to get someone pro to post, I'm genuinely fascinated by the phenomenon. Here's an extract from Belangers's book The Psychic Vampire's Codex;

Many psychic vampires are also hesitant to speak openly about themselves for fear of being judged. Throughout almost all of the available literature, psychic vampirism is depicted at best as an affliction and at worst as a conscious choice to victimize others. As a result, many Pagans, Wiccans, and other metaphysical practitioners see psychic vampires as a scourge to be protected against, and their opinions on the matter are strongly emotional. It is easier for most to live in silence than to fight such firmly established prejudice.

I'm confused as to what other ways one could perceive it, but I'm not going to buy the book...



I'm talking specifically about those individuals who proudly style themselves 'psychic vampires', thus making a spookysexy virtue of the fact that they're a pain to be around, 'nesh
I see, fair enough. I've run into many people of this subculture via Vamp LARP, but not such extremists. How do they see the situation themselves I wonder?

Mordant, I was going to quote you from the old thread- "Symptoms of emotional (and sometimes physical) exhaustion after being in their presence for a while is typical." Er, yes. Another word for people who induce symptoms like this is 'boring'.
Teehee!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:09 / 08.09.05
You can read the online version of the codex here. I don't know what refinments may have been made to it for publication, but a brief perusal of this version puts me in mind of a White Wolf RPG manual with stuff about chakras in.
 
 
Quantum
14:13 / 08.09.05
I've also met a Reiki practitioner that justified 'borrowing' energy from her clients during sessions because she spent so much time healing that she just needed a little boost so she could continue her good work Lothar Tuppen, the other thread

See this is what bothers me. I know someone, perfectly nice, got into magic and discovered you could siphon off a little bit of energy as you walk past people. He told me about it, and I said 'but that's appalling. Would you take a little money from people without asking?'

Related to the sigil-charging issue in the Free Will thread too I think.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:19 / 08.09.05
...and as was pointed out in the other thread, if you're doing that you're not doing Reiki. Reiki practice does not involve anyone syphoning energy off anyone, since what you're working with is (supposedly) universal energy, rather than yours or the client's.
 
 
Quantum
14:30 / 08.09.05
It's a common misconception though, and some systems similar to Reiki (ye olde 'energy' debate) utilise the idea of personal energy.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:41 / 08.09.05
From my admitedly limited experience of Reiki (grade 1), it seems to work best when you get out of the way and act as a channel for "universal chi" or whatever to flow through you. The minute you consciously try to do something beyond opening yourself to it and directing it through the hands, it stops working as effectively. The idea of a supposed reiki healer vampirising someone elses energy during a supposed healing session to give themselves a boost is at best cock-elbowed to the facts and at worst abhorent. It's not supposed to come from you. Didnt the geezer (whose name I forget) who invented Reiki develop it specifically because it was a method of healing that didnt involve a drain of the healers own energy but tapped a universal source? (Dodgy territory with the talk of "energy" I know, but you can't really help it in a conversation about reiki)
 
 
Quantum
14:43 / 08.09.05
I've heard that if you're *bad* at Reiki it's draining, from a practitioner. Izzat so?
 
 
---
14:51 / 08.09.05
and I said 'but that's appalling. Would you take a little money from people without asking?'

That's wierd because I was thinking the same type of thing as I read through a little further up. I don't think there's anyway to justify stealing energy at all. I think the idea of Vampirism is just fucking stupid really, I mean how can anyone defend it? I'd be interested to see someone trying to do that actually.

Shapeshifters beat Vampires, just like Ninjas beat Pirates.
 
 
Quantum
15:10 / 08.09.05
how can anyone defend it?

That's why I started this thread. Click the link to the vampire codex, above, and have a little read.

(and when you say shapeshifters beat vampires do you mean werewolves rip vampires to bits with their fangs and claws?)
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:33 / 08.09.05
i am going to say this again> life feeds on life. its nature, if you dont like it go hide in social created beliefs ethics or morals, but nature will always be their and you will only survive by beastial acts, what does mother give to the child(in one form or another) food.

There is no mutually agreed exchange within nature, there is a hunger that needs to be satiated.

I am not saying this is a good social model (although i think it reflects some current structures), but this oral fixation and food fixation does lay underneath alot of interaction, weather you wish to be conscious of it or not.
I feel it does reflect capitalism and to a large degree some social relationships, between institutions and individuals, and parents and children. and the various conflicts between media cultures that consume each other with artifacts fashions and trends.

Orally fixated vampires will always be with us, and at some level its a part of everybody, the urge to eat, to consume, whatever your pleasure may be.People want things and some people want alot more than others.Hunger and bigger appetites.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:45 / 08.09.05
The idea that someone takes is intresting in and of itself, what is there to take psychically? really.

If i do feel someone doing it i generally give them what they want, its intresting to play them at there own game and watch them become dependent on you, slowly but surely there need for you controls them, its like any addictive behaviour the control lies with what is craved.

Its intresting because back to my first point i fill up again very quickly, its not like i am really limited, what i think i may be is by the limitations of thought and experience, but what i actually am is to put it bluntly, eternity. eternity feeding on eternity? i suppose it passes the time gives the mind nice little games to play.

I think its just a level of awareness and a current picture to fit it in, the body is a field of energy.
I ve also come across the notion of people using this ability to heal ie draining the illness from somebody and becoming ill themselves. This is another notion thats common to chi healing, that the practitioner absorbs the illness.
 
 
Quantum
15:46 / 08.09.05
i am going to say this again> life feeds on life

That's deep man. As a vegetarian I'm not sure how it relates to my particular lifestyle, and my mum no longer feeds me, I cook for myself. 'you will only survive by beastial acts' like what, going to the greengrocers? My high street is not nature red in tooth and claw dude.
I think you might be talking about parasitism as a metaphor in general, but this thread is about people who say they're psychic vampires. Whether it's a good model for capitalism is sort of missing the point.

I'm reading bits of the vampire codex. Ugh. Has anyone else looked at it in detail ('cept obviously Mordant who posted the link and has seen the horror)?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:48 / 08.09.05
I've heard that if you're *bad* at Reiki it's draining, from a practitioner. Izzat so?

Well... meh. It's hard to be "bad" at Reiki really. As mentioned above, you step out of the way and just let it happen. I guess if you were consciously trying to think your way through the process, you could end up fighting the energy (yes, that word is like tinfoil on fillings but whaddayagonnado) and that might concievably leave you a bit wrung out. If you derail the Reiki process by overthinking and second-guessing, the Reiki can sort of go offline, leaving you working with your own juice and nowt much else.

Plus, when you give a Reiki healing to someone the fact that you're channeling Reiki through yourself means that you also recieve a healing. This can leave you needing a bit of quiet time to let everything settle down again. It's not "draining" in the vampiric sense. People forget that sometimes you need rest to heal; feeling temporarily tired might actually be exactly what's required. I've frequently had punters go to sleep on me during a treatment, usually snoring like billy-o, so it's not surprising that I sometimes feel like a nap as well.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:57 / 08.09.05
i heard years ago, that there is a blood deficiency (sorry, don't know what it's called) that includes symptoms like pale skin, sensitivity to sunlight, and a need to replenish the deficient blood (presumably, somewhere along the line this included drinking it. Not so unusual really, since there are any number of people who voluntarily eat blood pudding).

this may be one form of vampirism, or at least a modern explanation to an ancient phenomenon.

as for the energy-sucking psychic vampire. I've seen the dynamic happen in a room full of people. Someone enters the room, depressed, moping, generally not having a good time. On occasion, said person can suck the otherwise good spirited energy out of the room, simply by virtue of the imposition of their mood.

I don't think it's necessarily intentional. Anytime I've seen this happen, the person in question wouldn't identify themselves as a vampire.

they needed the attention from the folks in the room, took it, gave nothing back.

vampirism may be a colourful symbolic narrativisation of an otherwise irritating social dynamic.

but the image of the stake piercing the heart as self-realised apocalypse is a nice bit of poetry.

now if we didn't take these things so damned literally all the time.

ta
tenix
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:07 / 08.09.05
The "blood deficiency" you heard about is probably Porphyria. It's been touted as the basis for much vampire lore, despite the fact that nobody ever seems to be able to present a case study in which a porphyria sufferer found him or herself compelled to drink blood.

Some porphyria sufferers are understandably sick to death of the whole vampire/werewolf folklore thing.
 
 
---
16:22 / 08.09.05
[threadrotty]
(and when you say shapeshifters beat vampires do you mean werewolves rip vampires to bits with their fangs and claws?)

Nah, it's just this fictional thing I have in my head with Vampires and Shapeshifters. I sometimes think of Vampires as Shapeshifters that are too addicted to the primal energy and who fight to stay in forms related, so they feed off of other beings energy because they need more than the average person does, just to stay in shape.

It's completely odd I know, but it's something that came into my head as I was writing a bit of fiction with 'older beings' in it a while back, so excuse me if I come across as a bit wierd with that.
[/end/]
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:58 / 08.09.05
Has anyone else looked at it in detail ('cept obviously Mordant who posted the link and has seen the horror)?

Um, I haven't studied it in detail. I sort of feel like I ought to now, coz just glancing at a text and saying "that's bollocks" is a bit crap. I should probably give it a bit of a proper read.
 
 
macrophage
19:29 / 08.09.05
I tend to look at it more holistically as an issue of Energy, as in Energy Vampirism. Even Capitalists and attention-seekers could fit into the brackets of "Vampirism." I came around to the beliefs that Social Credit and the ethics of Manifesting Credit Charges out of Thin Air can possibly exist as one of the most quirkiest and alomost a glitch of Modern Economics.

As for blood vampirism which may will out due to poryphyria which seems a genetic glitch due to in breeding, which also produces a madness not unlike syphilis, as in degeneracy of the central nervous system. Alot of Royal bloodlines seem to have suffered from it - quite.

Or it may will out due to a haemophillia which I think has something to do with the blood count but hey I'm not too sure and I have would have to really look it up.

Vampirism exists like a paraphillia like lycanthropy. I'm sure you could go to John Hopkin's University's website in America and find out lots of goodies, as in research.

As for bloodplay and blood sharing alot of people practise it, good for them as long as they practise it within a safety net. Each to their own.

A good book to get would be "Wise Wound" by Penny Shuttleworth, which details the taboos around blood and menstrual mythos from animist eras.

The archetype of the psychic vampire as from Anton La Vey seems an individual that can get said to drain you off energy, I know of some people and I'm sure some of us have seeked attention in some way or another. It is said that the young and the elderley fit into the prequisites of what constitutes a psychic vampire, it fits into the semblance of a social and neural darwinist world view that La Vey prospered in.

Vampirism exists for alot as a role or a persona that some people can latch onto.

Interstingly, the word "Dracula" seems not just based on Vlad Tepes the tyrant but also the Irish Gaelic word root of "Droch Fhola" which is pronounced "droc - ula," an Irish Celtic myth of vampirism going back to Ancient Times.

There seems an interesting metaphor about the co-relation of plagues such as Rabies, Bubonic Plagues, Syphilis, Gonnorhoea, AIDS, Hepatitis, etc. compared to the archetypal rise of the Vampire Mythos.

Also it may also relate to the old times of the "Potato Famines" where plagues were rife, and also most imporatantly where there were several blood feuds as in clan wars spread all over Ireland. Imagine the atmosphere of an Ireland cast into famine by an oligarchy of invaders and aristocrats from across the sea.

I am writing an essay about the history of "Dracula" and "Nosferatu," so this thread caught my attention easilly. It's centerd around the so called Saturn Brotherhood and alleged Golden Dawn ties.

Reiki healers who seem to take energies off their clients, sounds like poppy cock to me. I thought that Reiki was apparently based around a Paradigmal Splice of Buddhist and Christaian Mythos. I never made it to the Attunement on my course, I can't comment. I do know that Kanji Kuri which other Oriental healers practised ran along similar magick to the casting of the Reiki symbols and so called Distance Healings.

If people want to play out Vampire Masks then let them as long as they don't get carried away, I am specifically thinking of the so called vampire killers from Peter Kurten to the one in Wales who did an old pensioner in. I mean look at Nicholas Claux for instance.

Alot of sexualities for people may run down to their imprintings when they were young, this runs a common themata in the studies of paraphillias. We seem a product of our child hoods and our puberties.

I have got a copy of "The Psychic Vampire Codex," as well. It's interesting, more for the Gothy types, I would say it earns a place in the occult scene though.
 
 
daynah
22:29 / 08.09.05
Many people call themselves "vampires."

There are just goths. They're nothing but people who where gothic clothing. Then there are people who dress up like vampires. Goths with fangs.

There are people who act like vampires, lifestyles. They walk around with the fangs and work night jobs and sleep during the day.

There are people who are fetish vampires. They simply like the idea of Dracula taking them. Or, being Johnathan and having Dracula's wives take them in the night. Some of them just really have to be bitten on the neck to enjoy sex. Some have to see blood. That's their sexual preference, even if it may be unsafe.

There are roleplayers. These are people who have played too much Vampire: The Masquerade and go around calling themselves Toreador and holding roses and such. They also often only come out at night.

These people are alright people. But, in general, I try to avoid them.

Psychic vampires are very, very, different.

Psychic vampires didn't even call themselves vampires at first. No one's really sure what they called themselves at first, but there was a big movement of psychics who really did not like these people who were draining the energy of other people and wanted to use a negative word to attach to them, and thus labeled them vampires. This didn't really piss them off, until all the other types of vampires (see above) suddenly decided that if they were fetish vampires, they must be psychic vampires, too.

Lemme rewind. Here is the most simple definition I can give of a psychic vampire. A psychic vampire is a perfectly normal being who feels that zhe has a need for psychic energy from a source other than hirself. The vampires feel they have the need because they feel that if they have not gotten energy in a certain amount of time (different for each person) they get certain physical symptoms like inability to concentrate, crankiness, stomach problems, sleep problems, and weakness.

Read though that definition again. Note how the psychic vampire feels that way. That doesn't have to mean it's true. By the mere fact that the person in question has convinced himself of that, that makes it true.

So... A psychic vampire may actually have that need for psychic energy. Obviously, if you're a psychic vampire you feel that way. That's peachy keen. You can feel otherwise. You can think we're delusional.

But... the trick is that even if we're making it up, we're so convinced of it, that our delusions have become real to us. We've become so convinced that we need psychic energy, that the instant we realise we've gone for so and so long without it, we've gotta have that hit.

Actually, there are a lot of people intimately involved in the community that feel that this is all a delusion that's become real to us. Generally, unless you run upon a butt of a vampire that you should then hit, most vampires don't care why you think they have that need. But that, at the end of the story, you say, "Okay, fine, you want some energy, cool."

About ethics... there are problems with this, too. New vampires especially use... questionable methods to get energy. It's easier. Every conversation you have with someone just walking down the road, you're exchanging energy. If some kid is whining to you, there's an inbalance of energy. Psychic vampires naturally know this and if they haven't practiced in energy work on a more structured scale, they basically just whine and make scenes and drain from one single person.

And that's the big key for ethics in the vampire community. If you want to understand how we see the ethics of feeding, put on hold any skeptics of whether we exist or not and just think, "Okay, they do have a need for energy. Now they want to do it ethically."

It would be extremely unethical for me to take Quantum here and take a whole bunch of energy out of him. He, in theory (and there are arguments about this too, a whole nother bag of worms) could feel tired and lethargic, and this could ruin his day. This could also mess up his energy body. It's like cannibalism or even rape on an energetic level.

On the other hand... if we do in fact have a need (remember, we're looking at this from a vampire's perspective for a moment), we have to find some way to satisfy this need. The ideal way we do this is called ambient feeding. Imagine if you will a concert or club. When you're in there, whether you're into metaphysics or not, you feel the energy. Concerts produce an overflow, an excess of energy that's just boiling over and so overwhelming.

So what a vampire does is take some of that excess energy. It's just a small, small bit of energy from a whole lot of people, and it completely fills the vampire up. This does not drain anyone. This is not going to harm anyone's energy body. This energy was at excess anyway.

This is how vampires, who know what they're doing get around the ethics of it. Unfortunately, (if you recognize our existance, of course) you could very well walk past a vampire who doesn't quite know what they're doing, and just randomly tries to drain you.

Unfortunately, there's an A&E special with Michelle Belanger in it coming up in October of all months. I'm sure she said something smart during her interviews but she also went to a goth party with the A&E crew. Hmm... lets think about what they want to put on the TV... lady trying to be serious and trying to put a new perspective on a subculture ooooor a bunch of freaks running around with glowsticks.

Oh the glory.

In the psychic vampire community, just like any discourse community, there are certain gatekeeper words that if you say them, you made it so are not allowed into the community. You have exiled yourself. Some of these things being...

- "Oooh I can't go into the sunlight."
- "Oooh my fangs are growing in."
- Any refrences to Vampire: The Masquerade.
- The words "No one at school understands me."

And, of course, when anyone says anything about how they know some secret past of the vampire. Or illuminati. Or how they're related.

We're not all idiots. Just please remember... that idiots have louder voices.
 
 
Ganesh
22:39 / 08.09.05
Every conversation you have with someone just walking down the road, you're exchanging energy. If some kid is whining to you, there's an inbalance of energy.

How, then, does 'psychic vampirism' differ from whining at, annoying or exhausting people? And is leaching someone's 'psychic energy' fundamentally different from wearing away at their store of patience?
 
 
Ganesh
22:50 / 08.09.05
And how does 'ambient feeding' differ from what we non-vampires term 'having a good time'?
 
  

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