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We have a guest I'd like to introduce you all to...

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23:35 / 07.09.05

I dunno about message boards in general and/or Barbelith in particular being a means to simulate a quasi office environment... a few years back I was working on a B2B mag. Our entire editorial team was on barbelith, although admittedly there were only three people in our team... I suppose the office politics and the very nature of the job brought us together to an extent, but having a further interest, that we eventually all shared also helped.

23:39 / 07.09.05

Hullo sleaze. Like the idea of everyone being online talking while sitting next to each other...
So not a different office environment -- more like a non-office environment for when you're in the office?

23:40 / 07.09.05

i think if my meatspace friends were posting on a message board they would experience a similar feeling, but i dont necessarily feel they would join me in my niche.
their secrets might find more room to breathe as mine have, but they might have different secrets.

it's not just the dodgy or the dangerous stuff, though.
i also talk politics in a way i find unwelcome with most folks i know.
only one friend and i talk about it in any great depth, and i've known him since i was twelve.

23:43 / 07.09.05

yeah, something like a non-office environment for when you are in the office - you wouldn't necessarily interact much with your collegue's posts, but you'd read them, and maybe pick them up on something they posted directly across the office after you had read it...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:48 / 07.09.05

There's another board member in my office... yeah, it is quite weird interacting with someobody on two different levels at the same time. I've had situations where in real life we've been having a conversation about one thing, whereas on the board we've been involved with others in a discussion about something entirely different, without any crossover between the two.

23:49 / 07.09.05

I guess the other interesting thing about interactions on boards such as barbelith relating to the work place is that other people in your office might be posting to a board that you frequent as well and you would not necessarily realise...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:51 / 07.09.05

That's a good point too... I remember when Hattie's Kitchen joined, I didn't realise it was her for a good week or so.

23:57 / 07.09.05

Can feel a slight reformulation of this feature coming on (which serves me right for not having researched it fully before pitching). I like the non-office office stuff particularly. Have to head off for some sleep now before I combust with tiredness, or something. Massive thanks to everyone who has posted, it's been a really amazing response. Have to file sometime tomorrow, but please keep posting....

... just have to rest weary eyes for a few minutes first... zZZZzzzz

06:33 / 08.09.05

One of the most important things about Barbelith is its built-in bullshit filters. You just WILL NOT get away with wooly thinking and posting (sorry, wooly). This becomes invaluable in threads such as this one which provided a welcome philosophical slicing away of the knee-jerk reactions which I and many others were having to get to the essential issues. I also work on a national (no, not telling you which) and it was interesting that while my colleagues were running around the office coming up with theories and trying to get "experts" on the phone, I felt as if I were probably better informed than many of them, even though I wasn't on the newsdesk, by simply ALT-TABbing every few minutes to check the thread.
Apart from the main rainbow-page (and we know the forum numbers by now, so I seldom use that) this place is pretty anonymous-looking so, unlike certain other boards, using it at work is unlikely to raise many eyebrows.

07:06 / 08.09.05

Definitely true about the colour thing Card, (not quite as true with TV and film!!) but conversation is brilliant for dipping into.

that other people in your office might be posting to a board that you frequent as well and you would not necessarily realise...

This is pretty much why I do like Barbelith - conversation is sourly lacking in my office and is at the level of some other boards. "Gay" - "no, you're gay" - "no you're gay" etc. Well, maybe it's not that bad, but I really don't think anyone else I know IRL uses Barbelith.

Hattie's Kitchen

07:08 / 08.09.05

My tuppence worth...

I was indeed introduced to Barbelith by my work colleague Stoatie. Sitting next to him on night shift, I would often hear him giggling away every now and then and I was curious as to what was causing so much mirth, so I started reading the board and joined pretty much instantly. I never frequented any message boards before then, as the ones I'd come across were pretty rubbish - both in content and quality.

This was the first board I could feel comfortable posting in and I loved the fact that you could have an intense discussion about US foreign policy in Switchboard, then head over to Conversation to debate the age-old question of whether ninjas are harder than pirates (ninjas are, of course...)

I don't post as much as I'd like to because of work, but I check into Barbelith almost every day, and I do feel slightly dislocated when I can't get access to it. The kinds of discussions I see here are far more varied than what goes on in my real-life world, and although I've never yet made it to a meet-up in real life, I do know a couple of other posters from work, so it makes the board feel a lot more personal to me, if that makes sense.

07:12 / 08.09.05

Hello Woolly, welcome to the boards.

I tend to post on Barbelith whilst at work, and probably spend far too much time on here. Unfortunately the nature of my work (pharmaceutical production) means that I have to spend the entire day locked in the lab. So posting on the boards is what I do instead of reading a paper on my coffee/lunch breaks.

To some extent, for me at least, the lure of Barbelith is that it provides me with a daily opportunity to have intelligent conversations with some very unique people. An added advantage of the automatic anonymity of a place like this, and the emotional distance provided by the conversations being carried out over computers is that I get to have rational (ish) debates with people I'd most likely never engage with in the real world.

Of course the threads do get a little heated sometimes. But a community like Barbelith is generally good at ensuring things don't descend to the level of obscenity and abuse. Well, unless it's delivered in an appropriately witty fashion.

07:16 / 08.09.05

Hattie's a girl?!

07:43 / 08.09.05

Tchoh! Pirates every time. It's the shanties, y'see.

07:45 / 08.09.05

Woolly, question for you - are you going to name Barbelith in the piece you write? Perhaps this is a non-question as membership is no longer automatic, but if it goes out in the Guardian print version, it could lead to a lot more people having a look at least. I'd feel a little bit weird about an extra 10,000 people peeping over my virtual shoulder.

07:47 / 08.09.05

Also, obviously, the majority of us would be hostile to that bunch of wet liberal lettuce leaves.

autopilot disengaged

07:52 / 08.09.05

hmm. the whole on/offline 'virtual community' thing certainly makes up the board's most visible heartland (manifested most explicitly in late shift threads or actual meets in assorted pubs, cultural events or protests). but, as a more irregular poster, i feel i shd squeak up for the lurkers - the fact is, a pretty decent proportion of visitors to (and members of) this site come along, read through and etc *without* adding their own response. bulletin boards are extremely democratic and interactive - but they are also a kind of media. at its best, barbelith is a digital salon, in which informed and irreverent people go at issues of the day with mucho gusto - though thankfully - on this site at least - there is an unusual level of intellectual rigour.

the internet being so hypertextual and rhizomic in structure means that the information and opinions expressed here can be linked to their source, one click away. and because the people who read and post here are bound by affinity rather than loyalty, there is a broad consensus of opinion and taste (with heated debates over the finer points, natch). unlike a magazine, the bulletin board is an open structure - and one that allows its users a say in how it develops. after all, it was the interplay of scientists and academics that created the internet - sites like barbelith allow the application of the same methods (and attitude) to our culture.

yes.

can we stage an infantile argument now? my fingers ache.

oh, and just out of interest - is barbelith the only bulletin board you're looking at for this piece? 'cause like i say, it may not always be representative of the species as a whole...

08:01 / 08.09.05

can we stage an infantile argument now? my fingers ache.

What do you think I'm trying to do, dude? The posts above were just a set-up - I'm keen to give Wooly as hands-on a welcome as possible.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:01 / 08.09.05

You're a rascist, Illmatic.

autopilot disengaged

08:06 / 08.09.05

furthermore:

what kind of name is 'woolly' anyway? it makes me think of a SHEEP! WE WILL HAVE NO SHEEP HERE! NO SHEEPISHNESS ON BARBELITH! (or SHEEPLE (c)flyboy 2003)

08:13 / 08.09.05

Shared boredom that's already set in at 10am... (Nina)

It's now 10am GMT and here I am, at work, on Barbelith. Grauniad you say? It's spelt B A R B E L I T H ;] Sorry, I got my name spelt wrong in it once (Ben spelt Benn? Poor subbing...)

Here's my tuppence- I don't go on other message boards at all, was introduced here by real life people who post, it was so nice I stayed. It *is* like your local coffeeshop or pub online, good quality debate, lively argument, long-running jokes and serious discussions on 80s kids TV, which betrays our main demographic I think (Optimus Prime is the best autobot by the way, don't listen to these other fools).

B'lith is especialy good for esoteric subjects (Comics, Occult, High Theory etc) that you don't often get to discuss in the flesh- not many of my colleagues care about the new Mage book for example, but there are people here who do. It broadens the scope of subjects for discussion.

And welcome, Woolly, I hope you like it here so much you stay after your research is done!

08:17 / 08.09.05

You're a rascist, Illmatic

I'm not a rascist, but, journalists, they're not the same as us, are they?

Woolly, what are your views on political correctness?

08:19 / 08.09.05

Haus that's not controversial because Illmatic *is* racist. Try 'Illmatic you misappropriate South Asian culture for your own nefarious Majiks you colonialist bastard'.

autopilot disengaged

08:27 / 08.09.05

oh god... throw a sprinkling of media attention our way, and we're like performing thought-seals... or, indeed, pirhanas in la spotlight.

Mon Oncle Ignatius

08:30 / 08.09.05

*Arf! Arf!*

*Gnash*

*(sound of drill-speed teeth shredding surprised journo's fingers)*

08:56 / 08.09.05

I got my name spelt wrong in it once (Ben spelt Benn? Poor subbing...)

Imagine how Tony Ben feels.

09:04 / 08.09.05

'specially if he was spelt Tonny. My surname was also spelt incorrectly (but am I bitter?).

autopilot disengaged

09:14 / 08.09.05

ok, just to snap back into a semblance of order: HOW HAS SOMETHING SO SEEMINGLY INCONSEQUENTIAL AS A BULLETIN BOARD CHANGED YR LIFE? (answers in a heartbeat, please).

Scrubb is on a downward spiral

09:30 / 08.09.05

I've been using Barbelith for the past few years, through a variety of jobs. I'm currently a grad student which means that I spend a lot of time either working alone from home, or in my department with the other grad students. Although I have company for the latter, it's usually of the Silent Contemplation of Our Glorious Work type (or running to get the free cake left behind after conferences, as has been the case for the past 2 days). So having some kind of broad social contact is great. Conversations move more slowly than they would over IM so they're (theoretically) less distracting.

For me I think it's less about seeing how many people are bored senseless in their workplace by 10am as having some kind of background chatter that I can tune into and join in with as and when I need to. Which makes it better than office socialising in someways; if I ever need to get on with serious hardcore work I can shut off the net and get to it, whilst in an office I'd have to either put earplugs in or wear a large cardboard box over my head to shut out the noise.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:30 / 08.09.05

I met some really cool people. Then they became famous DJs and abandonned me just like daddy.

09:36 / 08.09.05

For me Barbelith provides the stimulation I don't get in my incredibly monotonous office job. It also lets me talk to people about things that my colleagues have little or no interest in, whether that's debating Intelligent Design, the recent comics releases or the eternal struggle between pirate & ninja.

09:37 / 08.09.05

I met my parnter through it and we now live together. How's that? Also, a lot of my social circle are drawn from Barbelith, or overlap with other friendship groups - this intersection leading to a marriage in one case! That was actually one of the things that attracted me to the board in the first place, that a lot of cool people in London seemed to go to the pub together.

Tryphena Absent

10:31 / 08.09.05

I live with three 'lithers. They're very annoying. I hate them. Barbelith brought hatred into my life.

10:43 / 08.09.05

Hullo, hullo. Goodness. Sorry for non boarding this morning.... will now try and answer everyone's questions.

are you going to name Barbelith in the piece you write?
Yes, I am going to name the board -- partly because the paper has a policy of openess about reporting. So un-named sources are kind of not good, whereas a whole line of open debate that is then to feed into a feature (if you can be bothered to go and find it) is very good (although am slightly unnerved by the idea of it all being readable). In my view, you'll get a little spike of people who are curious, but not everyone is going to fall into barbelith community in any case. I will also mention other, perhaps more mainstream, boards. But in terms of getting interesting answers to questions, barbelith was the obvious one to go to

but, as a more irregular poster, i feel i shd squeak up for the lurkers
Yes, this is v interesting, the idea that a lot of people use boards, but don't necessarily post on them. Hadn;t really considered that before. Thanks v much.

Woolly, what are your views on political correctness?
I work for the guardian don't I? But also other, perhaps unlikely, publications

I got my name spelt wrong in it once (Ben spelt Benn? Poor subbing...)
I can only apologise for the whole paper. gahhh why I am having to do that?

I met my parnter through it and we now live together. How's that?
I am warmed to the cockles of my heart by this. And intrigued... how was the transition from board to RL?

what kind of name is 'woolly' anyway
guardian feature -- woolly liberal. You know... I also like the woolworths sheep. And indeed the emporium of cheapness that is woolworths.

And finally - I have to go and write the feature now. I may use some quotes from people here. If you would rather I didn't (not all will be attributed if you don't want them to be) please do PM or post here for me.

Ta v much. Has been an absolute pleasure -- and have also decided I will be sticking around ....

10:47 / 08.09.05

*One..of..us..* heh, now we can get out the candles and stop being polite.

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