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Games and Gameplay - How do we think it's doing?

 
  

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Spatula Clarke
17:16 / 11.12.06
So, is the deathly silence - bar from Stoatie and Tabitha, natch - an indication that not many other people agree that there is a problem, or that most everybody's so apathetic about G&G that they can't be bothered commenting?
 
 
netbanshee
23:24 / 11.12.06
I'm generally not much of a vocal one and I have been doing more reading than contributing since work duties have been quite demanding before the holiday.

That said, I certainly do care for G+G and am happy to see it here. I'll see if I can stop by and add something meaningful in the next few days. I'd love to give some more Wii and related game impressions but the damn thing is hard to get one's hands on.
 
 
Char Aina
01:15 / 12.12.06
i havent commented here for teh same reason i havent done more posting in the forum itself.
you could call it apathy, i guess. if i cared more i would post more. i'd have to care a lot more, though - so much more that i was willing to neglect all the other things i should be doing in favour of playing computer games.

until i am playing i dont feel i have much to say, and if i am not using the forum much i dont feel it is appropriate for me to weigh in too much to this thread with an opinion on said forum.

as you can see my most recent post was about GTA, a game that first came out in 2004 and one that i havent played at all in at least three months.

i still diligently go through any moderation tasks before doing anything else, but beyond that i have no real engagement at this point.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
14:27 / 12.12.06
I love G&G, and it's usually the first forum I read when I log onto Barbelith, but I'd have to agree that it's a bit slow lately.

The videogame world is all abuzz with the nextgen consoles, but I don't think many Barbeloids have picked up a Wii, PS3 or even a 360 yet, so the discussion thereof is understandably weak. I expect it will pick up after Christmas, when actually buying a Wii or PS3 becomes, y'know... possible.

I think one of the problems with videogame discussion on Barbelith is that people don't play the same games at the same time. We don't all rush out and buy the hot new game when it comes out, so discussion about any given game might be a trickle across a year or more, whereas on more videogame-centric boards, there would be a lot more people playing the same games at the same time. Right now, I'm playing the two new Final Fantasies, but I'm also playing the first Neverwinter Nights and R-Type Final, which are both years old. We're an eclectic bunch. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but I think we should get used to threads about gaming being slow growers.

Sports discussion is a little more frustrating, to me, at least. I've been consistently unable to get anyone to talk about American sports. I just don't think the interest is there. I know Tabitha mentioned the latest cricket thread failing, but it was a roaring success compared to any baseball or basketball discussions I've tried to initiate. It seems like almost all of our sports fans are of the European variety. Maybe I should get into cricket.

Despite the slow pace, I think the G&G forum is great. There have been some fun discussions that probably would have fallen through the cracks were they in the Conversation.
 
 
Char Aina
14:33 / 12.12.06
you could always invite some friends who like baseball to join the board.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
13:54 / 13.12.06
But they get to hear my ranting in real life.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:29 / 13.12.06
I just bought Marvel Heroes last night, and Runebound a couple of weeks ago, so I'm going to be making forays into "real" board game threads within the next couple of days/weeks. I just haven't had enough time to play to wrap my head around them, and enough time to write to make a good "Barbelithian" thread that doesn't just regurgitate Board Game Geek reviews.

I've also been loving the hell out of Bookworm Adventures. Far more than perhaps I should. But again, finding the right time to draft up a thread-starter has been tricky. Especially since my difficulty in Adventure 3 might reveal me to be a total friggin' moron.

Somewhat tangential: are the abundance of game coverage available elsewhere, and the high standard of conversation on Barbelith, colliding to make G&G a difficult forum to post to? There's really not much to say about computer games that hasn't been said already, and trying to find a new, unique approach to discussing something like Half-Life 2, where there are already about six billion existing discussion outlets, is daunting.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:51 / 11.01.07
Kay, how about this? We leave the generic 'What Videogames' thread open. If anybody wants to reply to a post about a specific videogame, they copy and paste that post into a new thread, specifically set up for discussion of that game, and go from there. 'What Videogames' becomes a kicking-off point for other threads, but doesn't contain ongoing discussion itself.

?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:40 / 11.01.07
That works for me.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:25 / 08.07.07
Right, I'm wanting to put the lock in again. Quite frankly, at this point in time it doesn't seem like it's possible to create a situation in G&G where there's less discussion.
 
 
semioticrobotic
19:03 / 08.07.07
I understand your frustration with the current stagnation, Spatula, but I feel I should chime in quickly to express my desire to see the forum stay open and active. For despite a dearth of discourse right now, I would be sad to say goodbye to some of the threads that have been really solid -- many for which we have you to thank. I also feel like the availability of such a forum contributes to Barbelith's mission, vision, culture and atmosphere.

I will be the first to admit I can do more to enhance the quality of the place, and certainly feel like I should. However, I'm anxious to get a general sense of others' feelings on the matter.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:18 / 08.07.07
Sorry Bryan. I meant the 'What Videogames' thread, not the forum as a whole. Although there have been moments when that thought's crossed my mind.

Thing is, I'm not too sure that locking that thread won't kill the entire forum stone dead. I just don't know what the solution to the ongoing lack of involvement is - quite possibly, there is none.
 
 
semioticrobotic
19:31 / 08.07.07
Ah, my mistake. I understand now -- and am glad we're still keepin' on.

On the subject of the 'What Videogames' thread: We have a fairly delicate issue here, for the reason you indicate. People seem to enjoy popping into the forum to zip off a few-sentence update on the game they're currently playing, but don't seem to think they have enough to say about the game as to necessitate an entire thread (hence, the drought). If we discourage the quick-zip rhythm, then we risk seeing even less activity there. If we allow the thread to persist, we sacrifice the potentially higher-quality discussion we'd like to see.

Perhaps we can strike a balance between the two? I did enjoy the idea of the Capsule Review thread; it's a good way for someone curious about a game to ping the hive mind, but also a nice way for players to offer their opinions without creating an entirely new thread (sometimes, a game doesn't come bundled with Big Issues that require pages). Maybe we can implement some sort of framework for the Capsule Review thread? Something to buck up the level of conversation so that people think more critically not only about WHAT they are currently playing, but also WHY -- and why others should (or shouldn't), too.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:52 / 08.07.07
It's interesting that people seem happy to go in to some detail in Films and TV, and Comic Books, about something they like or don't like, but when it comes to Games, Music and, to some extent, Books, they aren't. Hardly a new observation round here but did we ever work out why this is?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
10:19 / 09.07.07
i find it interesting that you ask that question, roflady.

perhaps you'd like to analyse your motives for raising it?

i ask this only because i already know the answer.

to the question.

or do I?

maybe I don't.

but maybe I do, as well.

perhaps the fact that I am willing to admit that I am unsure what the question was in the first place means that I already know the answer.

the answer to the question being that there is no question, and no answer.

that there are only questions, and answers.

still wish i knew where the facilities were though, here, in any case.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:58 / 09.07.07
1)Books are longer than films or episodes and not as easy to divide up, they are not aired at the same time so it is more difficult to keep them fresh in your head to discuss.

2)Games are ongoing, if they reveal new things you could spoil them and if they don't it's difficult to review them anyway. They're also more technical than films etc.

3)Comic books function in the same kind of way as a TV series.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:38 / 09.07.07
I would have thought music would be as easy as films and comics to discuss, seeing the fact most albums take as long as a TV episode to experience, but sadly it's not the case, here at least.

Mark, maybe in 25 days you should change your name to The Kurious Oranj?
 
 
Janean Patience
13:02 / 09.07.07
A lot of Barbelith's traffic comes from speculation. It seems, and this is internet-wide in my limited experience, there's more to talk about while waiting and excited for a project than when it's arrived. I bet the Transformers thread will end up with more pre-release than post-release pages, for example. TV shows and comics, because they're episodic, are naturally discussed in the dead periods between episodes. Movies are anticipated then released. Games, because they cost so much on first release and take a great deal of time to play and complete, tend to filter down. The most activity I've seen in G&G was waiting for the GTA:IV trailer which is strange, as discussion of the previous games in the series has been scattered and limited.

I'd like this to change. But because everyone's reading different books, listening to different albums and playing different games it's not so easy. General discussion threads on sandbox games and FPS games flounder, the capsule review thread is more like something you'd see on a blog than a discussion forum and seems a little self-aggrandising, and is it worth me beginning a new thread to say how fucking amazing the ending to Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones is? I mean it was, but will that thread go any further? I'd like to have the benefit of other posters' reviews on games, but there doesn't seem to be much middle ground between the very inclusive What are you playing at the moment? threads and the very specific Hey, who loved Primal Rage on the SNES? threads. Hence not a lot going on.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:51 / 09.07.07
I think we probably need some more "thematic" threads, like the one about narrative I started yonks ago, or the consistently wonderful ones Randy does on genres.

I've got a few ideas, and have been sadly remiss in my mod duties on this one, so I'll see what I can rustle up in the next few days.
 
 
Quantum
08:43 / 10.07.07
I'm loving the flash games thread personally.

Another reason for the difference is that games have different platforms. On TV you have normal and cable/digi etc. but for games you have all the competing formats of console plus PC etc. so there's even less chance people have shared games.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:05 / 10.07.07
In another probably futile attempt to keep G&G from becoming the all-video-game forum, I've put up a monster post on collectible card games. There's a lot to discuss in there, so feel free to dig in.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:28 / 13.07.07
Right, I suspect a lot of this is going to sound harsh and unfair, but meh. Don't care.

Well, do, but still meh.

Comics. I've blamed the Comics situation on New X-Men before now, which I know isn't entirely true, but it is partly. Iirc, NXM coincided with Barbelith suddenly becoming visible thanks to the board being made visible to Google (and still having an open membership policy - that combination harmed all areas of the board, imo). And then we got all the X-fans and all the generic superhero fans and all that shit, and it drowned everything else out for a long time. So some of the people who were being drowned out left - Moriarty, Persephone, june. Maybe they didn't leave because of that, maybe the timing was coincidence. Dunno. Always felt like that to me, though.

It's not like they've not been replaced by equally ace newer posters, but those new posters joined when the superhero:everything else ratio had already gone mammaries ascendant, so didn't know any other status quo, so didn't see anything out of sorts with it.

Damage is done, probably, but I'd still like Barbelith to be made invisible to Google again, if that's even possible. Chalk it up on the ever-growing list of desirable things that'll never happen.

G&G.

Is some of this my fault? I've thought for a while that the hopes that Haus and I had for the place were unrealistically high. Thing is, those hopes were based on the discussion that led to the creation of the forum, and the simple fact is that a number of the people involved in that discussion have *never* used G&G. There's been diddly-squat from them. That pisses me right off, I've got to say.

Same goes for those people who have a lot of worth to add to other parts of the board and who are obviously playing videogames - or at least aren't ignorant of the medium - but who don't bother contributing.

(And yes, I know I'm going on about videogames here, rather than sport or whatever, but I've never made any great secret of the fact that I didn't believe everything should be mixed together, nor that I'm just not interested in sport, so you'll have to forgive me if I still don't really care about how well those other areas of discussion are doing.)

I sometimes worry that it's partly that I'm an overbearing presence in the forum and am drowing out or shutting down other people. That, though, is inevitable given the circumstances. Only answer I can give, if that *is* the case, is that the solution would be for others to start posting to it more regularly. I'll be knobbered if I'm going to leave it to rot, not when my name's vaguely linked to the creation of the fucking thing.

Shit threads. I'm going to come down on shit threads like a ton of fucking bricks from now on. That's what we did when the forum first came into being and those first few months saw what are still some of the most interesting discussions in the forum taking place. That sentence contains a split infinitive or something, doesn't it? Pretend it doesn't. Ta.

Looking at the first page, I can't see many shit threads now. Not proper shit ones. Just two. For the record, thisun and thisun. I don't see the first justifying its existence until people like meludreen (I forgot yr new name! sorry much!), Saveloy and Suedey get hold of the game. The second I don't see justifying its existence at all, not even if the topic starter decides to display the basic good manners of responding to the people trying to answer his question.

Hmm. I can feel my temporary burst of righteous anger and religious zeal leaking out of me now. Like how a really satisfying piss is always slightly spoiled by having to shake yourself off. Not shake yourself off as in destroying an unborn civilisation, shake yourself off as in... well, shaking yourself off.

So tired. So very tired.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:11 / 06.08.07
Hello?

Hello?






Is this thing turned on?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:09 / 07.08.07
Yes, yes, yes, but look at Switchboard, halfway down the page and you're in to threads from June...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:50 / 07.08.07
Agreed - right now Barbelith as a whole is very, very quiet. I'd like to think this was partly people being on their holidays, but, well...

I try and post in G&G when I feel I have something to say about a game I'm playing - it's tricky though: for whatever reason, videogames don't seem to spark so many thoughts in my mind about anything other than themselves, in the way that music, books, movies and TV often do.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:49 / 07.08.07
I've got (what I think is a) pretty good thread-starter on the undesirability or otherwise of freedom in videogames (kind of spinning off from, and a counterpoint to, the narratvie one) but I currently have no internet access at home... hopefully this will be rectified VERY soon.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
11:49 / 10.08.07
Back when I was only a lurker, I was excited by the introduction of G&G as an additional forum, not for the videogames so much (though I'm amazed that the 'Lith Venn Diagram doesn't have a massive and vocal gaming crossover) but because I thought there would be opportunities to talk about sport.

In my mind, Barbelith still feels like a slightly half-cut pub gathering of smart and disparate people with plenty to say on a range of topics. And this is a good thing. I like it. With that in mind, I suspected that sport-related threads would see plenty of activity but have come to realise that his actually isn't the case. Despite the valiant attempts of astrojax, Duncan and a few others, I think it likely that

1. Sports fans are probably in shorter supply here than I first suspected (down to my one-eyed worldview, I guess. That's not snark, just a recognition that I'm no barometer of people's interests.)

2. There are better places online to indulge in sports-related discussion. No shame in that. The audience is just catered for better on a host of other, very specific boards in a way that the much-maligned Comics forum isn't. Really, it knocks other fora dedicated to serious and enthiusiastic discussion of the medium into a cocked hat.

This is why my own engagement with G&G has been fitful, at best. As far as discussion of sport is concerned, I think most would agree that the G&G forum is sadly a failed experiment. I have a suspicion that the second point may well apply to videogames as well.

Bit negative, that. Sorry. I do like that the temperature of the board was taken when considering the introduction of the forum and can completely see why it's so disappointing that the quite positive response didn't translate into dedicated activity.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:26 / 15.08.07
I think what I might start doing is copying and pasting opening posts from threads that I've started on other boards, see if that encourages a bit more action. It couldn't make things any worse.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:15 / 23.09.07
Message for Oddman, which I'd quite like to share with the board given that he's responded to this post with a PM - I don't care for the P part of PM in cases like this, in case anybody was wondering - that reads

Don't be such a dipshit.

Message extends to anybody else who would like to use G&G to 'do a Fiinderwolf'. Message begins:

I suggest you listen up, fuckface. I've been putting insane amounts of effort into getting that fucking forum up to scratch, and I will not have useless idiots like you turn up and try and make it as shit as Comics and FTV&T by bumping threads simply to post a fucking countdown.

It's the second time you've done this, in the same bloody thread. First time around, you were asked nicely. You paid no attention and didn't even bother replying to those couple of people who did.

Do it again and I'll put the post up for deletion. Pull your weight in G&G or fuck off out of it. There are a million shitty gaming boards out there where that type of post is the norm. This isn't one of them.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:28 / 23.09.07
It seems harsh, but... well, it actually isn't.

Anyway, I've started a new thread- I'm going to try for some more "abstract" discussions, rather than game- or genre-specific ones or ones that lend themselves to lists; see if that works. I've just done mortality; freedom's another interesting one but I'm trying not to rehash the narrative thread too much.

And I never thought I'd say this, being the anti-sport kind of guy I am, but maybe some of the people who argued for the inclusion of sport in the forum could put a bit more of it in there. I seem to recall that the combined weight of numbers was one of the ways we justified actually HAVING a G&G forum. There are two threads on the whole front page.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
08:54 / 25.09.07
Would it be wrong to get the Halo 3 thread locked, and to start another one without Oddman constantly posting arse?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:25 / 25.09.07
I have moved to delete his latest post, on the grounds that he has been asked repeatedly not to post content-free posts, and has responded by sending an abusive PM to a moderator. I have no problem with a zero-tolerance policy going forward, leading ultimately to a banning thread if necessary, if that's how we want Games and Gameplay to roll. I don't see a need for a new thread, though - or rather, I imagine Oddman would be as likely to post in the same way to a new thread.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:48 / 25.09.07
I'm inclined to agree with Haus- other people have posted threads with actual content to that one. What's to stop Oddman pulling the same shit if we start a new one, and would those of us who have been actually having a discussion really be arsed to do it all over again?

He's been told useless posts'll be deleted- let's be mods of our word.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:53 / 25.09.07
Right. So, we probably have to do the same to Alex's Grandma?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:03 / 25.09.07
Depends whether you think an amusing one-liner's as grave a sin as wilful refusal to engage and repeated content-free posts after being warned not to do them.

I'd personally say a joke is less content-free than "this game is coming out" in a thread about a game which is coming out. At the very least it suggests that Granny has been reading the thread; something I'm not sure is true of Oddman. I'm quite partial to jokes, really, though I guess a lot would ride on whether Alex's Gran became abusive if told to stop.

Probably also worth mentioning that Oddman's deleted post basically, the way I read it, told us off for wanting discussion, as there'd be time for that later. That actually seems actively harmful, rather than just passively unhelpful.
 
  

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