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Games and Gameplay - How do we think it's doing?

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ONLY NICE THINGS

07:25 / 17.08.05

Ah - and then your post here was an explanation of why you were not contributing to Games and Gameplay, along with an acceptance that you were wrong in your criticism of it? Well, that makes a kind of sense. Cool.

21:23 / 28.10.05

Wondering now if a general "what videogames are you playing" thread is such a bad idea after all. I'm just seeing a forum that - bar the Urban Dead thread - is only being posted to by the same ten people all the time and I know there were more than that posting to those threads when we had them in Conversation.

I just can't believe that there aren't more people playing games that they want to talk about, so maybe it's the fear of having to start a thread that's preventing them from doing so. I don't know - what does everybody else think?

21:42 / 28.10.05

Er, that's bollocks, isn't it. Sorry. Obviously there are more than ten people posting to the forum - I only meant as far as the videogame threads are concerned.

09:52 / 29.10.05

i havent been posting as much as i would like because i have been pretty busy.
i feel guilty playing computer games when i should be working, so none of my gaming experience is very current.

i've also been too busy to get any higher concept thread ideas thrashed out, sommething i feel i probably should do when i do have the time.

10:01 / 31.10.05

E. Randius: I'd say it's a good idea. It might encourage the more casual gamer to throw in a post, where as starting a topic might be a bit off-putting (and arguably unnecessary), it will enable people to throw in recommendations & capsule reviews.
Nearly all the other forums have these types of threads, I don't see why G&G shouldn't. If a particular game gets a big response, it can always be spun off into a seperate thread, or if someone has a lot to say about a game, they could start a seperate thread on it.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:29 / 22.04.06

It's been most of a year now, and Tom's mentioned elsewhere the dearth of sport in G&G (funny, reading this thread, and remembering how well the sport stuff was going once upon a time). Now, this doesn't really bother me personally, as I have no interest in sport, and my understanding of it is such that I'd be hard-pressed to tell whether a sport thread was profitable or not, but how do the sports fans in G&G feel?

Other than that, I think the forum's going swimmingly, and I've had some good tech advice as well. I'd also never have known about StarForce were it not for G&G. And I can't praise Randy's shmup thread highly enough, really.

What are everyone else's views?

semioticrobotic

17:33 / 22.04.06

I'm exceedingly happy with the way G&G is panning out. It's my first and last stop every time I hit the 'lith (and I compulsively check it two or three times as I bounce from forum to forum). I really can't believe it's been a year already.

I think we're seeing lots of great content recently (Women in Gaming, Shmups), and I really feel like lots of folks have been able to use the forum to connect for gaming purposes (Animal Crossing, Barbe-Diplomacy, Urban Dead, Cities). I think I'm most happy about the fact that the forum doesn't seem too uber-nerdy or techie. I agree: sports threads are sparse. However, even the videogame threads don't seem inaccessible to the majority of readers or to casual readers.

19:31 / 22.04.06

G&G is one of the forums I feel most comfortable posting in, but unfortunately that's probably I'm fairly techie, if not particularly uber-nerdy.

That and, hey, Bryan, y'all still haven't come to visit my town... My hope is waning...

Seriously, though, I understand the rationale behind G&G's creation and I think it's a worthwhile place to post for a lot of things that wouldn't fare so well in other places, not necessarily specifically Video Games or Sports. I could see how it would be viewed as sort-of cliquey, but not in any greater way than, say, the Art, Fashion and Design forum - they both serve very specific purposes, they just don't have to be for very specific posters.

Seriously, I've just come here from the Dr Who thread, and I'm starting to worry that my sense-making abilities are deserting me. Argh.

22:59 / 22.04.06

I definitely find that the G&G forum has taken on a life of its own and is a good place for discussion. The convo was feeling a bit constraining before we were given this option and it's nice to see it's being put to good use. With continued contributions I think it'll remain an active part of the board and a place I'll continue to frequent often.

19:01 / 23.04.06

Stoats: It's been most of a year now, and Tom's mentioned elsewhere the dearth of sport in G&G...

Hmmm, I dunno. It may be partly my fault, given the absolutely generalist nature of my football football thread, which was a misguided attempt really to reprise various convo threads on the topic from the past, without real object. I think there's good stuff there, esp. the stuff about paternal relations & the sport on the first page or so, but it suffers from said sheer generalism, and has largely devolved into Champions League/minutiae (again some of the stuff astrojax is pointing up is interesting to me, at least) and not much else. The cricket threads seem to be quite successful having greater specificity in their respective purviews, but I'm also unsure as to how much football (which is my major preference, sportswise) threads B'lith wants. There's a great deal on racism and sectarianism in the sport could be talked about, for example. I'd be quite willing to start a Wimbledon 2006 thread as an experiment, do enjoy the tennis - it might appeal to the more refined tastes of some posters here?

I'm also unsure what can be written about sport in a participatory sense - I've not played any such for a dreadfully long time, and am getting fat, and I'm sure board 5-a-side has been mooted by someone, somewhere - can recall neither. Maybe me and yawn/toksik in the pub?

23:38 / 23.04.06

i feel like i'm talking to myself on the football thread sometimes - here we are at a critical part of the season for european football and i thought there might be a bod or two out there in 'lith land with a passing interest to discuss it with me a long way from the action.

i don't play games on computers - just never got into it, was always a pinnie player, me - but think that there seems to be a robust forum 'cause me football and cricket threads always seem swamped when i look for them. so thumbs up to the forum!

and you're perhaps right, falconator, that the football thread is too general - do we start specific threads then, like the world cup one? (that'll be well used in june i imagine!) but i have got a lot from some of the conversations in this thread - and the cricket one - but would like to see more discussion on sports generally. and exercise? how do we get this in there - we all of us 'litheres need to maintain healthy bodies as well as minds, huh?

anyway, i like that the football thread is there and would like to see a variety of issues from playing to watching to thoughts on rules and all the way to how the culture of places affects this world-wide game.

(i start playing the uni lunchtime comp 9-a-side soon, so will report from my 'keeper's vantage point what transpires - should i start a new thread for that one? yeah, i think i will!)

now i'm rambling. will contribute more when i think more...

19:39 / 24.04.06

Um, sorry, its the first I've seen of this thread (thanks to the bump in G&G) and I noticed there was a consensus that the G&G forum should talking about games and gameplay rather than playing them. I can understand the reasoning behind that and was wondering what I should do about the Diplomacy thread I started. I can see it giving rise to discussions on tactics and the like, but it is outside the remit of G&G. I apologise for that and wonder what the best way to proceed with the thread would be? Lock it up and keep the game outside Barbelith? Move it to convo?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:05 / 24.04.06

I think you're alright where you are, to be honest... stuff like Mafia and Mornington Crescent aren't G&G material because the game is played IN THE POSTS THEMSELVES, kind of. That, and upthread someone suggested putting the Convo "list games"- you know, having a conversation only quoting lines of movies, etc- in G&G. Other than that kind of stuff (which was rightly nixed at birth) I think you're okay. (Others may disagree, of course...)

The way I see it, Barbe-Diplomacy fits fine alongside Urban Dead, Cthulhu and Cities.

08:19 / 25.04.06

I think the diplomacy thread is fine, you're organising stuff and trying to find like minded folks rather than playing the game. Entirely within the remit of Games and Gameplay, in fact the forum could do with a general 'Gamers seeking Gamers' thread possibly.

08:43 / 25.04.06

And if we could all just take a breath for a moment, and maybe have a quick stroll around the car park before posting again, that would be nice too.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:17 / 25.04.06

Was that meant to be about Charlie Sheen, Tom? The last time this thread got aggressive seemed to be in 2005...

semioticrobotic

13:57 / 25.04.06

Although I did say this earlier on, I have to agree with invisible_al and Stoatie when differentiating between games played in-thread and games played out-thread that merely use such threads to coordinate (in this case, I'm talking about things like Barbe-Diplomacy).

However, when do we cross the line? We seem to be gearing up for some Diplomacy in-thread -- that is, when we're all coordinated, we may use the thread to post map images and game-related commentary. Is this appropriate? A few people have popped in to say they'd liek to watch the match. Is that enough to justify some G&G in-thread gameplay?

14:08 / 25.04.06

Oh weird. I think maybe I posted to the wrong thread.

17:57 / 25.04.06

I've always been less than happy with the attempt to shoehorn sport and videogames into the one forum - it'd take an exceptionally dazzling argument to ever persuade me that they belong together. And I'm even less convinced when it comes to stuff like the trampolining thread - no offense intended here, but is trampolining a sport? I'm guessing that, in a world where synchronised swimming and ice dancing are classed as such, possibly so, but the thread itself is remarkably vague on this. If not, then I feel it's taking the forum's 'play' remit that little bit too far.

Same goes for the juggling and Heroclix threads.

On the whole, though, I'm fairly happy with the forum. There's still a lot of room for improvement, mind - would like to feel that people were more involved in discussions, and that more people were involved in discussions.

I don't know if this is the right place to ask the question, but does anybody mind if I carry on with the shmups thread? I don't want it to look like I'm using it as a blog, or something - I really do want there to be some discussion about the genre and was hoping to include more stuff about specific games and series - but I'm painfully aware that it might come across as a bit... me, me, me.

rising and revolving

02:34 / 26.04.06

Gods no Randy, keep it up.

Your stuff is

a) Great

b) Fresh material in the forum when things get a bit dull

So, it's all in good service, as far as I'm concerned.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:22 / 26.04.06

As I believe I've said elsewhere, that's the kind of thing that justifies the forum's existence. I can't think of any other gaming boards where stuff like that would have a home. I just feel bad as I haven't contributed, having not played many shmups in years. (That said, I'm quite tempted tog et back into them now...)

22:33 / 26.04.06

Keep going E.R9, though I've never been a big shmup fan, your thread is excellent. It examines the shmup in great detail, educates all those who care to read it, and raises the bar for all similar threads. If G&G was nothing more than a bunch of people talking about the games they were playing but had the occasional thread like yours it would more than justify its creation.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

22:49 / 26.04.06

I've always been less than happy with the attempt to shoehorn sport and videogames into the one forum - it'd take an exceptionally dazzling argument to ever persuade me that they belong together.

I suppose if you went the Trivial Pursuit route you would need to decide if video games belong under Arts and Entertainment or Sports and Leisure. Whichever you choose there then decides where things like Trampolines and Hero Clix belong.

I think unless we want to create another forum (Athletics maybe) then the video games and sports threads will need to be in the same place. Sure it isn't the best of filing systems, but it does keep things straight.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

03:36 / 28.04.06

I don't think it's a terrible thing to keep sports and video games (as well as RPGs, etc...) in the same forum. There isn't enough interest on this board to warrant a separate forum for sports, especially because of the transatlantic nature of Barbelith. I, personally, have no interest in the football or cricket threads because I don't follow or understand the sports (although I suspect I would adore cricket if I was immersed in it. It's so... baseballey). On the flipside, my European brethren have no interest in my baseball thread, for the most part.

There don't seem to be a huge number of sports fans on Barbelith as it is, and adding in the incompatibility of American and British sports fans, the establishment of a sports-only forum would be the equivalent of a Barbelith leper colony. Five people chatting intermittently about baseball and ten people doing the same with football, and never the twain shall meet.

I think that would be bad.

11:25 / 01.05.06

I'm not trying to get sport pulled out of the forum, incidentally. I may not like its remit - I don't - but there are people who have been using it to talk about sport and I'm not about to try and prevent them from carrying on doing that. And yeah, a sport-only forum would, I suspect, be a bit of a waste of space on Barbelith. I just think that we shouldn't be surprised that one or other of the two main areas of discussion - videogames and sport - has suffered from their being lumped together.

Elijah hits the nail on the head, imo. G&G should, as far as I'm concerned, be an "Arts and Entertainment" thing. "Leisure" is a painfully loose classification and one which doesn't exactly promote the idea of particularly deep discussion - and this is why the trampolining and Heroclix threads are ill-suited to G&G and more suited to Conversation. That's not a slur on Convo, nor on those threads. They just don't fit under G&G's remit as laid out by the forum description - the mechanics of play. The important word there is mechanics - the forum isn't just there for "I did this the other day and it was fun", it's there for people to explain or think about *why* what they did was fun, to look at it on another level.

pointless & uncalled for

11:56 / 12.10.06

Cycling, the Appalachian Trail, occasional mentions of fitness and the like. Instead of the swift burial mechanisms of the Conversation, is there a case for upgrading the mandate of the G&G to include discussion of the outdoor pursuits that don't really class as sport or play in the conventional senses?

I'm thinking maybe-ish.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:08 / 12.10.06

I would have thought so. As a very unsporty person, I find a friend's definition of sport very useful- "it's boring and they used to show it on Grandstand". Cycling used to be on Grandstand, I think.

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

14:53 / 12.10.06

I was wondering a while ago why Barbelith dedicates so much to the Mind and nothing whatsoever to the Body when we have so many holistic thinkers around the place. I'd thoroughly enjoy a more fitness-centric forum around the place, but feared asking because I'm afraid a "Fitness" fora wouldn't be sustainable.

Adding "fitness" to G&G would be a stellar idea. Games and Sport, maybe?

15:47 / 12.10.06

Sport's already part of the sub-heading.

17:32 / 12.10.06

People do semi-regularly propose something around the body as well, but the angles on it are quite confusing. Is it a gender and sexuality forum, one around health and fitness, one around games and sport? Does it intersect with relationships, or baseball results or philosophy or science and technology?

16:13 / 05.12.06

Got to be honest, I'm just depressed by the continued inactivity in the forum. Twenty moderators - twenty, for fucksake - and only six of those posting semi-regularly. Six is possibly being generous, too.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:50 / 06.12.06

*holds up hand*

I've personally been a bit remiss, certainly. (It would clearly be a bit shit, though true, to say my games-thinking time has been eaten by WoW and Dead Rising, so I'll say it in parentheses).

I think we need more "issues" rather than "game-specific" threads. And as that's easy to say and easier not to do, I'll start one in the next couple of days in the hopes that others will follow suit. There're a lot of things we could be talking about, and we just aren't.

I'm as guilty of this as anyone (if not more so)- I want to talk about games with Barbelith people. Let's fucking do it.

Tabitha Tickletooth

11:08 / 06.12.06

I also know that attempts to get a bit of cricket discussion going around the Ashes, with particularly valiant work by one or two posters, failed and I'm at a bit of a loss as to why. The last series seemed to generate quite a bit of discussion - this year, not so much. It's hard to know what you can do when there is just a general lack of interest, but I know it is very frustrating for the people that try to keep the threads moving (I'm not talking about me, btw).

All of Barbelith seems kind of quiet to me at the moment though, so maybe G&G is just a particularly notable casualty.

15:48 / 06.12.06

Yeah, there's certainly that. sleaze identified a general atmosphere of apathy across all the Spectacle in the 'Comics mods' thread yesterday and he's right - FTV&T has been relatively static recently, too.

stoats: I think we need more "issues" rather than "game-specific" threads. And as that's easy to say and easier not to do, I'll start one in the next couple of days in the hopes that others will follow suit. There're a lot of things we could be talking about, and we just aren't.

That's probably the ideal, but hell, even more game-specific threads would do it. I've long been thinking that the continued existence of the 'what videogames' thread is damaging to G&G in the same way that Fly was saying the general 'what music' thread was to Radio & Music, and also kind of pointless when it's sat inside what is, to all intents and purposes, a 'what videogames' forum. It might be time for the lock, to see if it forces people to start new threads for the games that they're playing and want to talk about.

15:48 / 06.12.06

Sorry, encourages, not forces.

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