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Underground > Policy & Help >

Games and Gameplay - How do we think it's doing?

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ONLY NICE THINGS

16:11 / 25.09.07

True - and also, Alex's G. has not sent Randy an insulting PM iin the interim. Fair enough - I wanted to check before moving to delete.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:18 / 25.09.07

I must admit the thought crossed my mind when reading AG's post, but after thinking about it, unless a thread's being rotted, I'd count a joke as "content" when determining whether a post's content-free or not. If someone inserts a witty (or even crap) one-liner into an otherwise serious conversation, then unless it's in very poor taste and destroys the conversation, it's often quite welcome.

Otherwise a lot of us would be fucked, really.

12:47 / 21.12.07

Y'know what really winds me up about G&G?

This.

See also this, this and whatever that zombie thing was called.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:52 / 21.12.07

Urban Dead.

Presumably they're annoying because they're more like running commentaries than actual discussions, but I dunno - it's sort of inevitable that if people can talk to other people they're actually playing an online game with on the board, then they will.

I was worried one of those links was going to be the TAGE!

14:17 / 21.12.07

It's partly that, yeah, but it's mainly that those threads show that there are far, *far* more people here who play videogames than bother contributing to discussions about them beyond those organisational things.

I've often thought that they'd be more suited to Gathering.

15:29 / 21.12.07

Actually, it's funny, but those are really the only videogames I've played in the last few years. I'm starting to poke around Second Life a little, but other than that, it's the goofy online multiplayer things.

All Acting Regiment

17:23 / 21.12.07

So what's actually wrong with threads like the Travian one? Are they spoiling the board in some way - is it just that it looks like a clique?

ONLY NICE THINGS

17:28 / 21.12.07

I think it's that it doesn't talk about the game, or how the game fits into gaming, or the experience of playing the game, so much as being a series of messages which are only of interest to those who are already playing the game. It's a bit like a thread in which people exchange gamertags - I know we've got one of those too, but never mind.

Personally, I think the onus is probably on everyone - those who want to and those who do not want to form Travian alliances - to leaven the forum with other content. The latest thing-I'd-like-to-post-about in G&G is Portal, but it's been a bit hectic. Will try at the weekend.

All Acting Regiment

18:00 / 21.12.07

Aye - I've recently invented a card game and after a bit longer testing it I'm going to do a report on it, either in G&G or creation as seems best.

19:55 / 21.12.07

I think it's that it doesn't talk about the game, or how the game fits into gaming, or the experience of playing the game, so much as being a series of messages which are only of interest to those who are already playing the game.

Functionally, it's using Barbelith / G&G as a subfora to exchange information. Looking at it as a participant in the thread, and as a previous participant in the Urban Dead and Cyber Nations threads, I think I now see how it may look just like a bunch of people having a closed, continual, shared experience, which is, in effect, quite cliquey.

I would say that the reason that Browser-based games elicit this particular response is because they are a relatively universally-accessible experience - if you're on Barbelith, you have a working browser, and if you have this, you can play all manner of brower-based games, whereas other gaming experiences have specific requirements - be it platforms, system requirements, etc. Hence it has a universal appeal, as opposed to a specific audience share.

It doesn't, however, elicit discussion of any quality, as other people have been saying - it's just an ongoing narrative of a free online game. I will try to bring more to G&G, now, rather than just posting updates.

All Acting Regiment

17:53 / 24.12.07

On the one hand, it's understandable that the Travian thread could seem cliquey. On the other hand, there's nothing to stop any other Barbeloid from using Travian.

So, I guess the question is, should the thread be moved to the Gathering?

Also, if I want to start a new thread about Ogame, something a bit like Travian but with spaceships and things, ought I to a) stick it in the Gathering anyway and/or b) make it much more of a discussion thread?

22:10 / 24.12.07

It doesn't, however, elicit discussion of any quality, as other people have been saying - it's just an ongoing narrative of a free online game.

To clarify, I think there's a place for threads of this nature, it's just quite depressing to see the amount of activity that they generate, compared to discussions that aim to be a bit more... I hesitate to say "in depth", because it sounds snobbish, but it's kind of what I'm trying to get at.

Like, mechanics. The mechanics of play. I wanted that in the forum sub-heading because that's the kind of discussion that I find entertaining and the sort of thing that isn't always available elsewhere. And it seems like the best use of the space here.

I'd given up on hoping for this from Barbelith for a while, but Pigs! return to the board (specifically, Comics) and the continuing activity in the anime threads is evidence that it *is* possible to have discussions of that level here, about media that are often ignored or ridiculed.

09:24 / 27.12.07

I don't see a problem with it myself- are we spoiling G&G by talking about a game in the wrong way somehow? I can see why the travian thread would be dull to read if you don't want to play travian, but equally football threads are dull if you don't like football.
Why not have a thread on the mechanics of play? I find usually those conversations falter pretty quickly but I'm game, we could discuss the psychology of play, interpersonal interaction in a gaming environment (why it's OK to stab your buddy online), the understanding of game mechanisms and play balance, how to construct a fair game, how to get the best out of simple browser games, why playability is so difficult to pin down, why competitive games are more popular than cooperative games, the decline of sports in the digital age, whatever you like.
In the meantime, I'm going to keep gossiping about my village. If it's a problem we can move the thread (or indeed set up a forum on travian instead of here) and let G&G lapse back into a dusty wasteland where conversations go to die.
Is the game forum really only a place for discussions about the nature of gaming, rather than a discussion about actual games?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:23 / 27.12.07

I THINK what Randy's getting at (and I could be wrong, so apologies in advance, Mr Dupre) is not so much that there's anything wrong with the threads themselves- it's just that they prove a lot of people DO play games, yet the forum doesn't seem to get much traffic as a result.

All Acting Regiment

14:42 / 27.12.07

Same as in Music, though - listen to loads of it, can't always think of decent online discussions to have about it. Whereas Theory and Current Affairs are only there to agree or disagree with, usually strongly...

19:24 / 29.12.07

I'd given up on hoping for this from Barbelith for a while, but Pigs! return to the board (specifically, Comics) and the continuing activity in the anime threads is evidence that it *is* possible to have discussions of that level here, about media that are often ignored or ridiculed.

Although we're pretty much seeing the winding down of the board, I kinda think Barbelith should be about discussion of things that are ignored or ridiculed. There are some discussions that can be had anytime, anywhere. Barbelith has always been important to me for the discussions that you can't have as easily.

15:15 / 01.01.08

Re Travian, there is an ingame forum function for those members in the game alliance, which I think should be activated to lessen the posts like "I've been attacked!" which I admit I've posted, but mainly because the alliance forum isn't actually activated. However, posts explaining the game and what people's planned method of playing the game is, certainly belong in G and G.

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:26 / 01.01.08

Have there been any of those, though?

jentacular dreams

22:33 / 01.01.08

I think the first 3 pages have a number of good posts on strategy, from Quants and benny in particular. But opening up the in-game forum might be a good idea, especially as there are more than a few members who aren't on the 'lith.

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:09 / 02.01.08

I'd be interested in what people get out of these collaborative online games - how Travian compares to Urban Dead or this game Legba was talking about, how the mechanics function, how you balance or unbalance the game - that kind of thing. As somebody who isn't a member of the Barbelith Travian alliance, all I get from the thread is an interesting but incomplete model of how the game is being interactd with, and also a terrifying picture of how quickly Barbeloids turn savage if you give them a few soldiers.

All Acting Regiment

13:18 / 02.01.08

Well, let's start a thread on collaborative games. I'm going to be off wrestling with references for a bit but if no-one gets a chance to start it in the next day or so I'll knock one up myself, with links to the games and so on.

miss wonderstarr

06:56 / 27.01.08

I started a thread with a long post about the camera-eye in games. So far, nothing (over maybe 18 hours). Perhaps my post was too long and asked too much? But I can see it just slipping down the "updated threads" until it's lost.

I was thinking of posting a link in the marginally more active Film forum (which would also be relevant to my questions, about the relationship between cinema and games' visual storytelling). Can anyone advise?

11:42 / 27.01.08

Honestly, you might as well have written it on a bit of paper and flushed it down the bog for all the attention that it'll receive here. It's a post on Barbelith about games that asks people to think. It was a non-starter from the beginning.

miss wonderstarr

11:55 / 27.01.08

Umm... well, I was trying not to think that way! I hope that is a pessimistic view of it. Actually, as my post admits, I'd already lifted a lot of good ideas from the Gaming forum (and from Film threads) so I think interesting discussion is going on there... or was, anyway.

12:16 / 27.01.08

I'm in the middle of a lengthy-ish response that I hope you'll get some use out of, but you might also want to try asking the same question on some dedicated gaming boards, see what response you get.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:24 / 27.01.08

Yeah, I've got a response coming too, but have been a bit busy with work stuff.

(Oh, and I wouldn't worry about it slipping down the page- for that to happen there'd need to be some sort of discussion going on).

miss wonderstarr

12:25 / 27.01.08

That would be great ~ your post, I mean. At the very least, it will bump the thread a bit. The disadvantage of dedicated gaming boards, for me, is that I'd be a newcomer and maybe not get much respect or many replies (compared to here! ha ha). Also, I thought ~ and still think, and hope ~ Barbelith would be able to provide a more thoughtful sort of response.

miss wonderstarr

12:26 / 27.01.08

Thanks to you too, Stoatie. I meant the "updated threads" page, but maybe most people don't use Barbelith that way. I usually check the recent thread page first.

20:47 / 11.05.08

Calling Temple people: I think we've got one of yours, wandered in by mistake.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:21 / 11.05.08

Wasn't [name removed] by any chance?

(Edit: nope, mustn't give a dog a bad name...)

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:02 / 11.05.08

That's quite unfair to the Temple. I think. MACC is expressing basically the same views as Fungus of Consciousness, who came through Switchboard, and there is nothing to suggest that he is here for the Chaos Majicks.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:07 / 11.05.08

Oh, okay. Thought the problem might be overeager newbie spam, but no. Catflap, mentalists, ghetto etc etc.

You can start that "scupper the Temple" thread anytime you like, you know. Unless this is more fun.

22:50 / 11.05.08

Sorry, that was a bit oblique. It's the sheeple thing I was refering to, rather than any general mentalism. It wasn't meant to be a funny about the Temple itself, more the frequent battles along these lines that regular Temple users have had to fight.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:06 / 11.05.08

Sorry, insomnia is making me read things through my cranky goggles. I parsed that as "this poster is shit therefore he must have come in via the Temple." Apologies.

23:37 / 11.05.08

No, like I say, I could have made that a lot clearer to begin with.

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