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The Generally Snobbish Pretentious Asshole Mentality

 
  

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Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!
21:03 / 16.06.05
Because Haus requested, this is the example I gave before.

Hostile "opinions" anyone?

There are lots of others, but this is the only one that really struck me recently, and I don't plan on quoting every slightly cockish statement people make.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:27 / 16.06.05
I think that's pretty harsh too.

Do you think that maybe some of the problem is a result of our membership being 'closed' at the moment?

Lots of new posters have been lurking a long time and have suddenly been able to join. To them, the people who post here regularly must seem really familiar. I remember Doozy Floop (I think) saying that it was like watching a soap opera, and then suddenly finding yourself in it.

Sp perhaps new posters might start a topic which instantly sets people off, but the same topic might receive more leniency if it were started by a long-standing member. I'm not saying I agree with this necessarily. It just occurred to me, is all.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
21:46 / 16.06.05
[Warning: this may all sound pretentious (etc.), but you got off likely: I was going to go HTML crazy and bore you all crazy with loads of links to other threads (etc) to illustrate the following (phew!)...but I didn't want to aggrevate anybody more than I may already be...etc]

I'm not sure what prompted it, but I've been thinking about the kinds of interactions that develop between users of message boards recently..

I'm really glad you typed this. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of members and other lurkers on Barbelith have been thinking about the various issues involved in and evoked by this thread of late (i.e. before the thread was posted). I myself have recently been fascinated by this (our) virtual model of a progressive society (as one may see it); and the various layers of synchronically and other such parallels with all kinds of social arenas, etc. e.g. the accepted and comprehensive use of social mores versus an accepted, shared accurate language etc.

A friend of mine, a particularly spiritual soul, has just come back from India and described how (as many people do) that she had rediscovered herself again, because the real 'her' was what survived when all the usual social baggage had been left at home. While she was saying this I was drawing parallels between her holiday, and my recent acceptance into these hallowed virtual halls.

Indeed, as a virtual model, this place is a great way of seeing yourself, refining and enriching your knowledge and behaviour, and also understanding / tolerating others. I guess there will always be a need to re-examine oneself and identify new and / or old habits, etc. But although, I'm more than happy to be slapped down, etc, when needed and / or deserved, sometimes it's hard to tell the tone in which the telling off is delivered. My Dad used to wind me up rotten when I was a kid, and when he really told me off I used to laugh thinking he was joking, until I saw the "look in his eyes". Kind-of like the reverse of 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf'?

I've wanted to start a thread about this, but I'll bet there's an old one gathering dust somewhere around here which answers all my questions for me (?), so I'm still holding back on this till I'm sure it's needed.

So what do you reckon? Interesting or a load of old bollocks? [joke?}
 
 
rising and revolving
21:54 / 16.06.05
We've done this about three hundred times

And doesn't that alone make you think there's probably something going on there?

Or are just convinced that three hundred people are wrong?

From my point of view, it's not even a question. It is, however, the way Barbelith *is* - and an awful lot of certain long time posters ego is tied up in keeping it that way, and due to both that and cultural intertia it will never change.

So, complaining about it is like complaining about the snow in Montreal. Pointless.

It's like the ever-so-common "is this forum going downhill, people aren't being nearly as arrogant as they ought to be," thread that crops up all the time. People don't realise you don't change a community by standing on the side wishing at it (especially this community, as Tom's schedule makes any programmatic change impossible) you change a community by enacting the standards you want to see fulfilled.

And frankly, by ignoring the wankers. Because it's almost never worthwhile talking to posters when you feel they're being arrogant twats.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:28 / 16.06.05
So, complaining about it is like complaining about the snow in Montreal. Pointless.

It might have some effect if people named names and pointed to specific incidents and, y'know, call me crazy but actually, just for once, provided evidence of a pattern of bad behaviour rather than starting up yet another vague whispering campaign.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
22:46 / 16.06.05
I've wanted to start a thread about this, but I'll bet there's an old one gathering dust somewhere around here which answers all my questions for me (?), so I'm still holding back on this till I'm sure it's needed.

Sorry, by "this" I meant "the parallels, synchronicities, (etc.) inherent within Barbelith and / related to other social arenas, and building a flexible, fully understandable, and easy to learn, common "language" for all members to use wisely"-type of thingmyjiggypokery.

That's it: "p.w is the Pretentious King, not the Thread Killer! Kneel at my feet you dirty bootlickers! This feels liberating! I might even dress up and change my fiction-suit!" (joke, joke, joke!) : )

Apologies if this stinks of threadrot.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:48 / 16.06.05
That's a bit of a one-sided viewpoint Fly, the flip-side of it being that pointing the finger has direct personal consequences and bringing attention to the problem without directly naming people is a more gentle way of dealing with the issue.
 
 
rising and revolving
22:51 / 16.06.05
It might have some effect if people named names and pointed to specific incidents and, y'know, call me crazy but actually, just for once, provided evidence of a pattern of bad behaviour rather than starting up yet another vague whispering campaign.

Oh come on. We're not talking about "a pattern of bad behaviour" where bad behaviour is defined as stuff that would get you, for example, kicked out. We're talking about rude, snobbish, assholes. You want me to dig out posts where people are being dicks? It's not exactly difficult.

Do I think we need to do something about the rude, snobbish, assholes? Of course not. I've been one at times.

But you seriously want examples? You've been offered several on this thread.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:02 / 16.06.05
BTW, I've seen in other web-communities that members (and sometimes other members and even non-members) are able to see a list of (all) their recent posts. Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing this is the right thing to do and I'm also asking if this has been done here before, but I was thinking that maybe this might make it easier to see our history and individual progress (or descent as the case may be) as a member of Barbelith?

It might also enable us to get a handle on other peoples overall character and sense of humour, etc. I understand that the (welcome) ability to change fiction suits might affect the ease of doing this, but is it that different to typing in a key word into the search box below? As has already been said, this stuff is "out there" in the public domain anyway, so should we feel uncomfortable if this change were implemented?

Hmmm...Again, I dunno.....
 
 
agvvv
23:06 / 16.06.05
Not as good, but you can use Google ("site:www.barbelith.com paranoidwriter") for the same purpose
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:07 / 16.06.05
If your interest is interesting conversation, it's fucking retarded behaviour that drives potentially interesting but meek or non-confrontational posters or potential posters away from the board.

If those posters have something to say, in an articulate fashion that makes a point then generally they're not going to get jumped on or there will be other people who step into the thread to stand up with them.

The question is: what do you want to do about individual posters who you think are being too aggressive. If you really think someone's been unreasonably nasty then you can tell them to stand down, in a way that is bigger then their post in the thread or you can pm them and say that you thought they were being harsh. I do this quite a bit but inevitably it won't make a difference long term because each of these people chooses their own way to express their irritation. But guess what, we can't have a rule that says you have to respond to a new member/poster in a different way to your normal response to something. If you really want to address this then what's your answer to the problem and who are you addressing it to specifically?

These meek posters you're talking about have to find their own way into the board's structure as the rest of us did. I'm sure I'm not the only person who spent ages lurking until they found a spot to sidle into but it's something that I had to do myself. We can't change a culture to be less assertive because there are people who don't know how to fit into it, we can't do it because it's not something you switch on and off or can make commands about. The tone of this place has been set by individual choice and the people who stuck with it because they liked it. You can't ask for more from something as inconsequential as a message board. In the wider world barbelith is unimportant and the sooner shy lurkers realise that any judgement of them matters about as much as my opinion on the chocolate digestive I am currently consuming the better they will be able to make their mark.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:10 / 16.06.05
Not as good, but you can use Google ("site:www.barbelith.com paranoidwriter") for the same purpose

Ah! I had no idea! Nice one.

S**t, I'm scared to look......
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:12 / 16.06.05
Oh and btw I totally should have said 'everyone' earlier, sorry! (I think the bloody cats really got to me.)
 
 
diz
23:37 / 16.06.05
It seems to me like a kind of rite of passage or hazing ceremony here. "If you can put up with people being immediately hostile pricks, you can play with the cool kids." type nonsense. It's not everyone, but it is common enough to warrant some concern, I think.

i think you're right that there's a sort of informal hazing that goes on here, but i'm not entirely unhappy about that. if someone can't take getting dissed with good humor, or having their ideas shot to pieces periodically, they might not be a good fit for this board.

and it doesn't happen to everybody. isn't there some newbie in the Deleuze thread that's charming the pants off everyone right now? it's possible to just show up and have everyone like you.

Which is fine, if your interest in this board is to gain "status". If your interest is interesting conversation, it's fucking retarded behaviour that drives potentially interesting but meek or non-confrontational posters or potential posters away from the board.

in my experience, most people who are interesting enough to talk to can hang in situations like this one. it's not enough to have potentially interesting ideas. to be a valuable contributor to a conversation, you have interesting ideas that you've worked through a bit and learned to articulate well and defend rationally. usually, in the process of learning to do so, someone has said "hey, hang on a minute. you're full of shit," and you've learned to deal with that. it's just a learning process, and Barbelith tends to work best for people who have already learned to be assertive and articulate and who can take criticism well. there's nothing wrong with that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:27 / 17.06.05
Tom TIt: Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that Boboss describing the show "Spirituality Shopper" as "fucking retarded" was an unfair attack on Shiney Things for watching it, or that Gypsy Lantern's "shudder" was unnecessarily dismissive of Shiney Thing's approach to religion? The latter at least I can see, but the one word :"shudder" doesn't seem _grotesquely_ vitriolic.

Syph: Although it has come up about three hundred times, this has been as a result of the same half dozen people doing pretty much exactly what King Mob did here: making a complaint about the entire board in vague terms, then refusing to provide any sort of corroborating evidence when they are aked to identify what is apparently a general trend with more than one example, often on pretty specious grounds, such as "you've already made your minds up, so there's no point providing any evidence". It's as if they saw one thing they diidn't like, or often felt as if they were not getting the respect they patently deserved, and extrapolated that into a board-wide problem without really thinking about it. Note that this general mentality was subsequently described as actually only the actions of a few people.

I do at times wonder why Barbelith either attracts or is assumed to attract the most delicate orchids on the Internet. Compared to many boards I have seen, the level of flaming, bitching, snarking and malicious moderation of posts is incredibly low - KM seems to be saying that sometimes when somebody says something stupid some people act as if sopmebody had said something stupid, which would admittedly be poor form at a formal dinner but seems pretty restrained for the consequence-free world of the Internet. How would multi-board people compare it?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:59 / 17.06.05
I do at times wonder why Barbelith either attracts or is assumed to attract the most delicate orchids on the Internet. Compared to many boards I have seen, the level of flaming, bitching, snarking and malicious moderation of posts is incredibly low

Did you not just answer your own question?
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
02:01 / 17.06.05
I do at times wonder why Barbelith either attracts or is assumed to attract the most delicate orchids on the Internet.

...wonders the selfidentified unpleasant one.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:09 / 17.06.05
Ah, but I am also the rarest and most delicate bloom in the hothouse. Fact.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
02:19 / 17.06.05
... isn't there some newbie in the Deleuze thread that's charming the pants off everyone right now? it's possible to just show up and have everyone like you..."

(warning: bad "League of Gentlemen" impresson)

What's this? We'll have none of your troble here! This is a local...
 
 
Ganesh
02:24 / 17.06.05
*rush of nostalgia*

Ahh, a snarks-to-Morrissey thread, Barbelith's own version of swords-to-ploughshares...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:36 / 17.06.05
God, yes. I'd totally forgotten a) about dear old Planet of Sound, who snapshots a sepia-tinted world of traditional trolling and b) the genius of those four pages of Morrissey.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
02:43 / 17.06.05
Oh yes....I remember it well....... EH? Hang on? No I don't. What the hell are you old-timers on about? Links, I need LINKS!
 
 
Ganesh
02:48 / 17.06.05
Try the link five posts above this one.
 
 
Ganesh
02:49 / 17.06.05
Six, then. Or seven.

The Haterzzz-turned-Mozzz thread.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
02:53 / 17.06.05
Oh right. (insert red face) Anybody want anything from the shop?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:56 / 17.06.05
Twenty Marlboro light and a huggle?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:00 / 17.06.05
You know huggles are bad for your health, right? Plus the nurses go crazy if they catch me smuggling stuff like that in here...

Oh what the hell! For you, anything!
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:05 / 17.06.05
HUGGLES!
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:17 / 17.06.05
There! See what you made me do? Another fine mess...
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:17 / 17.06.05
You're talking to yourself again p.w...
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:19 / 17.06.05
NURSE!
 
 
Ganesh
03:21 / 17.06.05
That's kerrraaaaaazy talk, that is. You're toootally maaahaaaaad.

Etc.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:28 / 17.06.05
SEE?! See nurse? Did you hear that? I'm not making it up, am I? Tell me I'm not making it up,....please? ..No....NO! Not The Needle! PLEASE NO! NNOOOOooooooooo................................
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
03:34 / 17.06.05
There, there, paranoidwriter. Go to sleep, tiny dancer.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
03:39 / 17.06.05
zzzzzzzzz.......mmmymmmm...nunnnnnunnnmumm.....Daddy? Is that you Daddy......munumunummmm......zzzzzzz......
 
  

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