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BDSM and Magic(k) (possibly not work safe)

 
  

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Ticker
19:36 / 27.02.07
how prominently fashionable BDSM is

This makes Baby Grievous cry. Though I suppose I do get some benefits from having a Hot Topic in my local mall so to perhaps a dungeon-lite social scene would provide me with some form of entertainment...

Though we are in the BDSM/magic thread I feel the need to reinforce the Ordeal Path doesn't have to have anything to do with BDSM at all. Not all Buddhists also take yoga. If need be I can bring this rant over to the Ordeal thread.

Ember you should probably consider that the Ordeal Path resonates with many other religions use of intense acts of devotion rather than BDSM specificly.
 
 
godhole
17:56 / 28.02.07
On the "not cool enough" aspect....I too feel this sometimes, even as I am seen as a pretty hard player in the men's leather community, and as a pretty deeply grounded person (according to others, at least!) in my spiritual path. I mean, geez, I have never done a hook suspension! I think this notion comes from a place where there is so much exposure to BDSM as a commodity - whether that is in workshops, play events, or even books. (Disclosure - I am a member of Raven's community, and one of my techniques got a paragraph in the book.) Frankly, the complicated stuff can be explained at length (and needs to) - there is your workshop or book. The shiny stuff needs to be sold - there is the play party aspect, and the subjects for "demos." But I swear to you - the most intense stuff is not visible to the casual outsider, the consumer, the shopper. Which is not to say it isn't visible - I was holding space and co-breathing on a rather intense scene (holes being poked) last year - I was hands off, but an account of who did what to whom with what implements was irrelevant to the breath, the song, the crying and the laughter. And a few weeks back, I was delivering a strapping/whipping to a person, with a third watching - and that third energy was very much part of the mix, even while not obtrusive - in a sense, that third person was standing in for the Witnesser who penetrates with hir attention, receiving, feeding, affirming the efforts of the other participants.

And this past weekend, I was top in a scene which turned into a catalytic scene, not by my planning. I was hosting the men's play party at a leather event, and needed a 'party-starting' scene to get things going. The bottom was very experienced in bondage, and not into pain. A random comment about the 70's TV show "Land of the Lost" and being captured by the sleestack (sp?), tossed lightly between other players, was heard by him. That comment recalled him to the reasons and original stimuli which drew him to bondage in the first place - childhood TV shows. (Wild Wild West - can I get a witness?) That was coupled with some slightly, teensy pain/sensory stuff I did with the disposable wartenburg wheels that are my new fave must-haves. This slightly jaded, seen-it-all/got-it-on-vid bottom turned a personal corner when the line between negotiated bondage and having control completely removed (in a trusting situation) was shifted right to where he was. I think for him it was finally a submission that his body had been stretching for all these years.

To the external viewer, I did a very simple standing position, restrained within a frame, and spoke with him quietly, and ran wheels over his body. Pretty boring for them - he was rarely even half-hard. But in that simple scene, I reached his edge, led him there, and wiped away years of his accustomed, predictable experiences.

So what I would say is, if you feel like you are not cool enough, please take a look at who you are comparing yourself to. Realize that your 110% will not look like someone else's 110%, and that anyone who judges BDSM cool-factor is either putting on a performance of some sort (which is fine - just a very different goal) -- or they haven't been to the places that you're lighting out for.
 
 
Ticker
18:42 / 28.02.07
Amen!

..and yes Wild Wild West lives and breathes somewhere in the hentai mansion of my soul. Though the black n' white ones are my favorites.

 
 
godhole
00:59 / 01.03.07
Like xk, I am not sure if this thread is drifting towards the ordeal thread, but to give an instance to support previous comments, here is a great example of a non-BDSM ordeal ritual. I know the author personally, and his goals could not have been accomplished with BDSM techniques, however extreme.
 
 
Katherine
07:38 / 09.11.07
*bump*

I have a question which I have been pondering for the last couple days.

Total power exchange relationships, in this sort of relationship I would assume that the Dominent partner would direct any sort of working with the same control they have in their normal relationship dynamic.

Now if the Sub has given over all power to the Dom would the Dom now be responsible for any come back (Three fold or karmic)or would the Sub despite the fact it is the Dom who has used and directed it?

Any ideas?
 
 
Papess
10:40 / 09.11.07
AFAIK, "Karma" when understood as cause and effect, doesn't get the details of intimate role-playing when it is consensual. The sub, in other words, still ultimately has choice and has to know their own limits, if the dom doesn't recall them.

So, as an extreme example, if a Dom ordered the sub to murder tiny animals for their pleasure, then the sub would have to make an informed decision about that. There is no way that the dom can assume liability, unless they were threatening their sub with death for real if they did not do their bidding.

Each person is resposible for themselves, and yes there is a certain burden that I believe comes with knowing influence, but ultimately no one else can assume responsibility for another's involvement or actions.

That's what I believe, maybe someone else has a different opinion.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:42 / 09.11.07
I think that's kind of an odd question. I mean, it's a bit "who would win a fight out of an X and a Y" really. For a start, there's the basic assumption that things like karma or the law of threefold return have any objective existance. (I've certainly yet to see the threefold law play out in actuality.) In any case, I don't see how there would be any difference between an unethical magical act and an unethical mundane one. If you know that the spell or whatever is dodgy, it doesn't matter whether you're in the submissive role or not--you still bear responsibility because you chose to participate.

As a philosophical issue, I guess it would depend on the degree of control that the dominant excercises over the submissive. A submissive who still retains a reasonably objective view of the harm done by following orders versus the harm suffered by the dominant shoud the sub refuse is obviously more culpable than a severly damaged person who can no longer make a realistic assessment. Someone who's been locked into an abusive relationship for a long period of time may have serious difficulty in percieving anything as more important than keeping the dom happy.

It's not unknown for an abusive "dominant" to demand actions of a submissive that the submissive considers unethical or wrong, to test or to demonstrate hir authority over the other person. (It need hardly be pointed out that someone who does this shouldn't be trying to dominate anyone else, and the sub should get as far away from such a person as possible. A real dominant has no need to violate a submissive's integrity to stroke hir own ego or to prove a point.)
 
 
Katherine
11:46 / 09.11.07
The question and pondering came about as I was reading a BDSM web forum, in particular the total power exchange side. I agree it seems an odd question but then to a point I find TPE relationships curious. I realise I probably haven't fashioned the question well, still trying to find the right phrasing.

My understanding of the dynamic (please someone correct me if I'm off mark) is that one person is giving over total control to the other. This would be done over a period of time as that person fully trusts and submits to the other one. So I would assume this is not an abusive relationship as per say as both would be going into it knowing the facts and base of the relationship?

In this sort of relationship dynamic would you still say both have free will or does one now answer for both?
 
 
Papess
12:16 / 09.11.07

In this sort of relationship dynamic would you still say both have free will or does one now answer for both?


Sorry to answer a question with a question but, does the sub ultimately have a choice about whether they want to stay in that relationship? IMO, if someone has completely no will within a relationship, then that is an an abusive relationship. In TPE, the sub still has a will, it is just that the dom exercises it, not the sub directly. If the dom does not take the needs and will of the sub into account, then they are being abusive. And yes, that does happen even if there is consent to some perceieved abuse. It becomes actual abuse when the dom does not nurture or concern themself with their partner's well-being.
 
 
Katherine
12:30 / 09.11.07
Thank you for your question and answer. I don't have experience of this and was wondering the above, which you have answered. Thanks again!
 
  

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