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Videogames Thread 3 - Dark & Gritty Subtitle of Publisher Dullness

 
  

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Spatula Clarke
13:11 / 09.04.05
Thirty pages or so is too many. Time for a new thread.

Phantom Brave, then. Traded some more games in yesterday with the intention of picking up either Timesplitters 3, RE4 or DMC3, but Game in Birmingham had this up on the shelves with the wrong price sticker on the box, so there was no contest.

Helluva weird, but weird interesting - Nippon Ichi have created an entirely new way of playing TBS which has very little in common with anything that's come before. Disgaea was a bit of a revolution itself, but it was a revolution built on certain genre standards. Here, the very first thing that you notice is that there's no grid any more - instead you get circles around your characters, defining where they can move to and what they can attack. You've only got one proper character, and she's fairly weak, but she's capable of summoning Phantoms to fight on her side. You need to summon Phantoms inside of items on the battlefield - rocks, patches of grass, trees, treestumps, flowers, starfish, etc - and each item alters the Phantom's base stats. Summoning a Phantom inside a flower gives a bonus to that Phantom's Intelligence and Will, but knocks down their HP, Attack, Speed, and so on. So really you want to be summoning magic users inside the flowers and patches of grass, and summoning fighters into things like rocks (which give an increase to Attack, but a decrease to magic-related stats).

What makes it more difficult is that each Phantom can only be summoned for a certain number of turns in any one battle. I've not got the hang of keeping an eye on this yet - it can get annoying to move one character across the field to get them into position, only to have them disappear one move before you got the chance to have them do what you wanted. The entire game needs a lot more forward planning than Disgaea did.

It's all about the environment. Disgaea let you lift characters to throw them out of the line of fire, or across the map to an exit point, or lift enemies to stop them from attacking anyone. PB keeps the ability to lift, but totally changes its usefulness. Every item on the battlefield allows characters to use new attacks when it's lifted. Lifting and holding a tree lets you use a move called something like Oak Smash, for example. The more you have a character use a move in this way, the better that character gets at using it (pretty much in the same way as you build up weapon skills in Disgaea). You can also pick up and abuse enemy characters - downed or still alive - in the same way.

Then there's other stuff. There's a sort of Virtua Fighter-style ring out system, where you can throw or knock enemies out of the battlefield to get rid of them, but they can do the same to you. Every surface has a rating of how slippy and how bouncy it is.

And that's more or less all I understand at the moment. I've only played it for an hour and a half so far, which isn't even 1% of the time I put into Disgaea. I already think that this is going to rival that game for the amount of time I put into it, but I'd still definitely recommend that anyone thinking of getting this puts some serious time into Disgaea first. There's so much here that's both completely new and horrifically complex that you need an easy way in, which is presumably why they've left things like joypad button assignments and the menus exactly as they were in the previous game. That's good, because if I also had all the basic joypad controls to learn I think I might start bleeding from the nostrils. Hints of huge canyons of gameplay hiding under the stuff I've played around with so far - I created a random dungeon earlier, and when I finished one of its floors its stats appeared to level up. I've no idea what that's all about. I've also not even thought about equipable items so far - there's a lot going on there that I cxan't get a grip on yet.

I see that what should have been the first of this loose series, La Pucelle Tactics, has finally got a UK release, too. I suspect that might be my next purchase, when I finish this. In three months time, or whatever.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:58 / 09.04.05
I'm currently very tired due to having to combine working a nightshift with Doom 3 having come out on the XBox yesterday.

There's not a great deal to say about it- it's Doom, but prettier. And I love it. To be honest, if they'd added anything significant to the gameplay I think it would have spoiled it. Probably the dumbest game I've played in years, but immense amounts of fun. And pretty damn creepy, too.
 
 
Billuccho!
02:26 / 10.04.05
Dammit, I need a good video game to play (not that I've got time to do so). I tried dragging out Hitman 2 again (never finished that) but found it too dull. I think I should unload some of these crap or boring Xbox games I've got...

...but what good stuff is around? Hrm.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
08:35 / 10.04.05
My willpower is low, I just ordered Catch! Touch! Yoshi! (or Yoshi's Touch and Go) from Lik-Sang, thank god I resisted Meteos until an enlish translation though. Although I'm currently playing Golden Sun on the DS which is a superb GBA RPG, if you like JRPGs and have space for ahndheld gaming in your lfie you should obtain it post haste it's almost the handheld 'Skies Of Arcadia' in joy terms.

Oh and on the Xbox Full Spectrum Warrior is intruiging. It's like a puzzle game with guns where you don't do any of the shooting. And swearing. Swearing is both big and clever.
 
 
The Strobe
15:05 / 10.04.05
Hold on, Spatula - the dungeon's stats levelled up? Disgaea sounded freaky enough with dungeons inside items and what not. I just can't cope with these hardcore strategy rpgs. Though I have a real urge to buy FFTA, for some reason.

Well, having finished Resident Evil 4, I'm at a loose end. Want to finish up Metroid Prime and Zelda:WW eventually, but right now not sure what I'm in the mood for. Feeling a little like a Jap RPG - Tales of Symphonia looks good - but for no good understanding why. Am irked PS2s are still expensive; I'm conserving money right now.

Brothers in Arms also tempts. Mario 64 DS... is on hold, it seems. Finding DS moments isn't as easy as I thought it'd be.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:10 / 10.04.05
Hold on, Spatula - the dungeon's stats levelled up?

Yeah. I've only gone back to the random dungeon creation once since then, because they're freakishly difficult for the level that my characters are currently at, so I still don't know what that's all about. The manual's absolutely useless again, and the FAQs available aren't a patch on those people wrote for Disgaea.

To create a random dungeon, you need a specific character class who'll do it for you. You ask him to create one and it opens up a window that's almost exactly the same as the Status one for units - random dungeons appear to have stats for HP, Attack, Intelligence, Will, etc. I really don't understand it at all.

The equipment is also deeply odd. You can only equip a unit with one item at a time - there are no dedicated slots for weaponry, armour, footwear, or any of that. Actually, I've not even seen any armour yet. Instead, every item that a Phantom can be conjured inside of can also be equipped - so, you can equip a unit with a patch of dry grass, or a seed, or a broken tree branch. These items have their own levels, but as there's no equivalent of Item World here I don't know how you increase them. Not only can you equip a weapon, though, you can choose to have it appear as an item on the battlefield and then confine a Phantom to it.

And now I've just opened up a character class called 'Fusionist', who can apparently combine two items or characters (or a character and an item) to confer certain benefits from the one onto the other.

It suffers from the same problem as Disgaea, in other words - it gives the player too much freedom in the early stages of play, which makes it hard to get a handle on anything that's going on, as you feel that you're being pulled in a million different directions. I need to start paying heed to the advice I gave other people re: Disgaea, and ignore most of the available options while I focus on getting the basics down.

Disgaea sounded freaky enough with dungeons inside items and what not.

That wasn't so complicated once you got the basic idea. Just think of it as a way of letting you create more powerful items whilst also giving you a playground to level your characters up in when there was a spike in the story mode. There was a lot more to it than that, but those were the two most important aspects. Disgaea has a lot to offer the non-hardcore, it's just a matter of getting through the initial barriers. Unlike PB, which I don't think less obsessive gamers would get much enjoyment from.

Though I have a real urge to buy FFTA, for some reason.


Do it. There's some great depth to the opening up of new character classes, the freedom to make your team whatever you want it to be and the learning of new skills, and those three elements fit together neatly and cleverly. The only real problem that it suffers from is the utterly fucked menu system, which demands you either buy a printed guide or take a trip to GameFAQs. Oh, and the storyline's bland as old porridge.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:24 / 11.04.05
Has anyone played Timesplitters 3 yet, then? 'Cos if it's half as much fun as 2 then I will definitely be getting that one.
Feedback please, I don't trust computer games reviews from "official" sources.
 
 
Bear
11:01 / 11.04.05
I've got it and it's a lot of fun, lots and lots of fun actually. You have to fight through a mansion of zombies, which is always good. I've saw a review somewhere complaining about the time travel issues but I think they are a great little feature, at certain points you meet yourself and have to work with yourself to complete missions.

I'm stuck at the moment though because my TV is too bloody dark and I can't diffuse a bomb (you have to link coloured lines).

I also got stuck on Devil May Cry III so had to check a guide, thank furk I did I would have never worked out the invisible Indiana Jones style bridge.
 
 
Axolotl
19:21 / 11.04.05
I've been trying to complete all those games I bought, but never really got into. I completed X-men Legends - I really liked this despite its flaws, and there were quite a few, characters falling into abysses and dying, invisible walls blocking routes and a comically low level of difficulty. However I forgave them and ended up getting hooked. Very much a case of "just to the next save point, then I'll quit" and then never quitting.
I am also nearly done with "Beyond Good & Evil" which I know some people raved about, but I never really got into. I was wrong though, it's absolutely genius with a story line and characters you really care about. The mix of gameplay was good as well.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
20:54 / 11.04.05
I picked up a copy of Lego Star Wars about a fortnight ago, and have been thoroughly enjoying it.

The animations are beautifully crafted, and the humour is spot on. Whilst a very simple game at heart, it’s packed full of extras and hidden areas, and since it lets you play through the entire plots of Episodes I - IV, there are plenty of spoilers for how the upcoming film is going to play out.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:02 / 11.04.05
Ooh you fucker, Tez. That's my current "can't wait for/try to book night off work on day of release" thing.

Ooooh.

Lego.

Star Wars.

Games.

I think that's all the food groups covered, isn't it?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:03 / 11.04.05
Oh, God. I think I'm going to die if I don't play that.
 
 
Hieronymus
21:19 / 11.04.05
*green drool*

And it's not out till August.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:17 / 14.04.05
That's the second time somebody's said how much they're looking forwards to the Hulk game here. Can anyone explain the excitement to me? It just looks like a really uninspired, cheap GTA knock-off with basic superpowers from where I'm sitting. Beyond "run here, smash that" (and alost inevitably some duff Bruce Banner stealth bits), what's it offering?

Had a moment of revelation a couple of days ago and finally started to understand what's going on with those random dungeons in Phantom Brave. Everything in the game has a name that's made up of two parts - a title and a description. So a soldier unit might be a Crappy Soldier, or a Rushed Soldier, or a Saintly Soldier. The title is taken from a list of hundreds at random when the unit's created, and relates to the modifiers affecting that unit's base stats. A crappy whatever is obviously not as desirable as a normal whatever.

And this all ties into the random dungeons and how they appeared to be levelling up. They weren't - it's their titles that level up. When you create a random dungeon it gets a title, just as everything else in the game does, but that title's nonsensical. sWN, or GADnhJ, or wRTfTR - just a meaningless jumble of letters. When you get to the bottom of one of these dungeons and complete it, its title gets given to your Titlist unit, who can then assign it to any character or item you want, altering its base stat modifiers.

That seems to be the game's main focus - character development and creation - more than the actual battles. Once you get the hang of using the Fusionist character type, you suddenly realise the insane amount of freedom you've got to create any type of character that you wish. It's also how I've spent most of my time with the game so far. Like Disgaea, there's a really nice sense of humour underpinning everything, brought about through the freedom you're allowed. Have a character use a mushroom as an attacking item for long enough that the mushroom gains loads of item-specific special attacks, then have your fusionist merge the character with the mushroom so that ze learns all its attacks and can use them when holding any item. Then watch and giggle stupidly as the new item you're holding - another character, or a watering can, or a pumpkin - takes on mushroom-type effects. Lifting up a granny and using Fungus Spore with her, having tens of little grannies shoot out from inside her and attack the enemy, is the sort of brilliantly daft, brilliantly unhinged nonsense that standard, po-faced tbs would never allow.

Bloody loving it now.
 
 
The Strobe
12:25 / 14.04.05
Crap, that sounds ludicrously freeform and utterly brilliant. Shit. No PS2. I'm going to look out a copy of FFTA asap, anyhow; I might also end up getting the new Splinter Cell, not for its surprisingly improved single player mode (and anodyne plot) but for the multiplayer, and the inspired co-op - have heard everyone raving about the co-op. Sounds like one of the best implementations of it yet; two spies infiltrating, helping each other by lifting, throwing, dangling the other around. And the guards can hear you if you talk too loud on Live.
 
 
hanabius yamamura
09:12 / 19.04.05
... FINALLY finished Resident Evil 4 ...

... verdict? utterly brilliant for the most part ... ... ... my only niggle is that ... ... ...

POTENTIAL SPOILER TIME DUDES






















is it me or did the game, about 80% of the way through e.g. on the truck, seem to go through a brief phase of 4 or 5 instances of instant death syndrome solved by a fairly skill-free level of remember what happens next after you've died at least once?



END OF SPOILER POTENTIAL


... anyway, my clock time was 21hrs 45mins 35secs which led to lovely unlockable nirvana ... ... ... I then read on a website that the fastest run-through currently stands at, as held by a Japanese gamer, ... ... ... 1hr 58mins 14secs ... ... ...

h x
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:13 / 19.04.05
I've gone retro - Arcanum, a steampunky adventure using the Fallout engine. After a couple of hours' play, it seems vast, and potentially actually more bewildering than Fallout...
 
 
Grey Area
09:16 / 19.04.05
Arcanum is vast. I played it through five times and rediscovered a whole new game every time, thanks to the differing interactions with your character's race and all.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
09:22 / 19.04.05
I finished Arcanum about 2 weeks ago and found it a most pleasurable romp, if a little buggy in the combat area. The levelling up is a little uneven around the beginning but in terms of an expansive story it's up there with my beloved Deus Ex. The thing is, unlike Fallout, you have to be at total peace with the fact that YOU ARE PLAYING DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS, steampunk trimmings notwithstanding.
I'm waiting for the GBA adaptation of Zelda: Link to the past to arrive. It's a treat.
 
 
Benny the Ball
09:33 / 19.04.05
Bust-a-move is the only game anyone needs
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:39 / 19.04.05
There is that - and the eerie similarities in the plotting and situations. Unquiet graves, brothels... it's a shame one can't get programmers with a broader emotional repertoire. Still, it was 2.99 in a charity shop, and I'm interested in steampunk and Victoriana at the moment. Mind you, elves. Pointy pointy little bastards.
 
 
agvvv
09:55 / 19.04.05
Going retro too.. Just downloaded Flashback. Remember this excellent game? Love the animation.. for more retro goodness; abandonia
 
 
The Strobe
12:04 / 19.04.05
Two different directions over here;

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory has an entirely disposable plot but could be the first Splinter Cell game I actually enjoy beyond the second level, and actually get good at. It's easier than early ones, but for sensible reasons ie you can now, as the BESTEST SOLDIAR IN TEH WORLD kill someone with your bare hands. As opposed to trying to elbow them to death. Also, co-op mode is utterly brilliant: simply, it's two Sam Fishers (not really) in environments that need them both to survive. You can give each other legs up, throw each other across gaps, and even dangle the other player down gaps, Mission Impossible style, to hack computers. Also, the guards can hear you if you talk too loudly. So you end up creeping around buildings, whispering to Some American Guy you've just met, synchronising your headshots and knifing the bad dudes when your mate messes up. It's stunning; like nothing else.

Other direction: Tales of Symphonia. Jap RPG for GC. Again, might be the first Jap RPG I like; fun but skillful combat system which plays a lot like Super Smash Brothers, plot that hopefully will get horribly nasty quite soon, likable characters simply because whenever they're annoying brats, another character says so. Beautiful to look at too, very summery. Just not sure I'll make the 40-80 hours play time...

I hear there's a patch for Halo 2 that makes it good again. Will investigate ASAP.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:24 / 19.04.05
I'm tempted to get hold of Chaos Theory, but I was burned pretty badly by Pandora Tomorrow - came to it late, so found it impossible to get even a half-decent game online.

The Halo 2 patch makes the game a lot more enjoyable for one simple reason - the cheat fixes mean that you don't end up with every single game descending into a riot. Other than the changes to grenades, which are far more powerful, the weapon balancing stuff is hardly noticable. If at all. It's all good stuff and means that there's actually a point to play Big Team Battle with random people again (online gaming's at its best when it involves as many people as possible, imo), but it's nothing world-shattering. More to the point, these things shouldn't have even been an issue in the first place - Microsoft and Bungie shouldn't have shipped such a deeply flawed and poorly tested piece of software to start with.
 
 
The Strobe
13:38 / 19.04.05
Spatula: please, get hold of it, rent it, anything, and I'll play some co-op with you. If only so you can *sample* the co-op, it's great.

Also: versus mode is a lot better; bit fairer, deathmatch mode sucks up the kiddies leaving real men playing Story.

But yeah, even if you take it back in a ten day warranty, make sure you play some co-op. It's that good.
 
 
agvvv
14:36 / 19.04.05
Can someone tell me the name of this Atari?
 
 
Grey Area
15:13 / 19.04.05
It's an Atari XE Game System.
 
 
agvvv
15:49 / 19.04.05
Thank you very much Grey
 
 
agvvv
15:59 / 19.04.05
Does anyone have a working emulator for this? And possibly the gam River Raid? Cant seem to find anything decent.. thanks
 
 
Grey Area
16:21 / 19.04.05
Emulator and (possibly) source for a ROM. Apologies if you've already found these.

Do I have too much free time on my hands today? I believe I do.
 
 
agvvv
16:32 / 19.04.05
thanks again Grey
 
 
Grey Area
09:11 / 21.04.05
My turn to ask for help: I re-installed Arcanum last night. Last time I played it on my old computer everything worked fine. Now, on the new computer, If I try to enter a mine or building (eg: every time the game needs to load an 'interior' level as opposed to just fading out the roof of a building) I get booted to the desktop. Why? It's patched, my drivers are up to date and everything else seems to run well. Any ideas?

Oh, and if you were debating the purchase of Scrapland: Don't. It gets very tedious, very quickly.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:52 / 22.04.05
Dunno, GA. That's never happened to me, although I've had plenty of other nasty little glitches and bugs pop up when playing it. Have you tried one of the dedicated Arcanum sites?

Paleface> I'm just not feeling the stealth at the moment, which is undoubtedly a shame - mcuh the same thing happened around the time of Pandora Tomorrow's release. You'll have the game for a while, though, yeah? If and when I do get it (more a matter of when, really) then I'll definitely be up for some co-op.

On the online Xbox thing: has anybody played the new Unreal Championship yet? I can feel it calling to me, for reasons unknown - I've not played an Unreal since the first Tournament. My Halo 2 online time is almost entirely spent in big team matches or custom games with friends, with the free for all deathmatches not getting a look in since about the second week after I got it - there's just something about them that doesn't feel right, for me, so there's a gap there I want to fill. This seems the best bet, currently. Anyone?
 
 
w1rebaby
21:27 / 22.04.05
I bought Phantom Brave the other day, because I couldn't get Disgaea to work on my ridiculously finicky PS2 (it's a refurb, it often refuses to play second hand discs for frankly random reasons, I'm thinking of taking it back to Game but it's probably past the date now). However, I then discovered how to get Disgaea working again.

So I now have two very similar games (down to some of the sound effects being identical), both of which are great, but one - PB - being notably more sophisticated. I'm just going to have to forget that I ever bought it until I finish Disgaea. Bah.

Oh, and the thing that is annoying me about Disgaea at the moment is those bloody coloured zone things. Not only are they irritating to deal with, but they also make the map look silly. It is quite fun blowing the living shit out of the entire place when you kill a Geo Symbol, though.

I would quite like to get a game that's entirely disposable pick-up-and-play stuff though. I suppose I can always load GTA:SA, kill some gangbangers and go to the gym.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:45 / 23.04.05
You can turn the geo panel colours off by pressing Select. I think it's Select, anyway. Just means that you can't tell what's affecting which grid squares at a glance, and have to place the cursor over them instead.

It's weird - I really liked them, both for how they looked and how they added to the gameplay. When you see the equivalent in Phantom Brave, you might wish that they'd stuck with them.

I've been meaning to ask you (and Admiral Sausage) how you've been getting on with it. Once it's finished the first time, there's still all the alternate endings, secret zones, extra character classes and legendary weapons to find.

Phantom Brave: you can get the official guide direct from the publisher for just over a fiver at the moment. It's a lovely thing to have - really high quality, really extensive (like, 250 pages extensive). I've nabbed one for the weapon rank, stat and skills charts, given that - unlike Disgaea - there aren't any decent FAQs that cover these things. I've got a feeling that the guy responsible for the best of the Disgaea FAQs had a big hand in writing it, too, given that he's now an admin on the publisher's forum.

I would quite like to get a game that's entirely disposable pick-up-and-play stuff though.

I heartily recommend Space Channel 5 Part 2, which is possibly the most amount of silly grin fun I've ever had sat in front of a telly (although Sony Europe, in their wisdom, decided not to bring out in the UK despite publishing it throughout the rest of Europe, so requires a trip to Amazon France, or similar), Gitaroo Man, which is a bemani game unlike anything else out there (one level in particular absolutely demands to go down in history as a moment where a videogame broke the boundaries of the form) and superb if you ever wanted to play a musical instrument but couldn't, and Psyvariar, by far and away the best shoot 'em up on the PS2 (in PAL territories, anyway). All about as 'pick up and play' as you could ever ask for, all with huge amounts of room for improvement and mastery should you want to dig a little deeper, all dead cheap.
 
  

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