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J.L.A. Classified

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:58 / 31.01.05
Yeah my silly mistake, it isn't Nebuloh of course but "Master".

I don't mind cool pseudo-science at all, as indicated by the fact that I relish the vulnerability to yellow. But it has to follow some kind of internal "fun-logic", doesn't it? It has to make you think immediately "ahh! that makes sense, cool," not puzzle about it and then feel unimpressed when you realise what the scene was meant to show?
 
 
SiliconDream
21:54 / 31.01.05
Well, it's not like there's no precedent for it. Hal Jordan beat the yellow-suited guy in Emerald Dawn by covering him in mud and then smacking him around. The ring acts on the covering substance, which acts in turn on the yellow thing inside.

I think even without that it would have made sense to me, though. He's yellow, he gets dirty, he's not yellow anymore. I guess I'm simple-minded enough for that to work. :-)
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
22:01 / 31.01.05
It wasn't the ambiguity of Batman's escape that bothered me in this issue; it was the transition between pages 7 and 8, where the escape took place.

On page 7, panel 4 Grodd says "But first I'm going to eat you, bit by bit." Then in panel 5, it looks like Grodd is going to bite Batman's fucking head off. All "RAAAAAUUU!" and jaws open wide, right? Then you turn to page 8, with the close up of Grodd's face and then Batman's escape and it's a "what the fuck" moment, jarring and damaging to the flow of the story. The first thing I did was look to see if I had turned two pages at once, and I don't think you want your reader to do that.

I understand, upon rereading, what happened there, but it was executed in a clumsy manner that took away a little of the reading pleasure. That may well have been as much Ed McGuinness' fault as Morrison's, but it definitely looked like shit to me. I still enjoyed the majority of the issue, though.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:09 / 31.01.05
Well, I suppose if there is a precedent. It just seems super-dumb to me, and rushed through so you can't really tell what's going on. Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think of Emerald Dawn as innovative comic book entertainment, whereas I expect some freshness, intelligence and verve from Morrison.

So if you were Hal Jordan and wished up some tinted glasses so yellow objects looked rosy, would that be OK? Because it seems we're going on what colour things look. How about if you exposed the threat to ring-created sodium lamps, don't they make colours appear differently? Couldn't you use the ring to make yourself permanently colour-blind or unable to see yellow? Would that work?

Couldn't Flash have whizzed off within a millionth of a second and hauled a vat of pink paint into GL's flightpath? That would have been a lot more fun and satisfying than the dust-cloud.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:52 / 31.01.05
I thought the punishment meted out to the Ultramarines was a bit rough. After all, how many times has the Justice League been forced to bad things courtesy of mind control ? I'm guessing more than a couple, so couldn't they have been a bit more understanding ? The fact that the Ultramarines had dubious ethics was surely irrelevant under the circumstances, wasn't it ?
 
 
SiliconDream
23:46 / 31.01.05
Well, I suppose if there is a precedent. It just seems super-dumb to me, and rushed through so you can't really tell what's going on. Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think of Emerald Dawn as innovative comic book entertainment, whereas I expect some freshness, intelligence and verve from Morrison.

Sure. He's not required to follow that or any other GL story. Just saying, he can reasonably expect GL-familiar readers to know what's going on in that scene, because pre-Kyle GLs were stymied or saved by quick color changes pretty often.

It wasn't the most ground-breaking use of that idea, though, I'll give you that. I found Morrison's previous methods of weakening Kyle, which usually revolved around screwing with his willpower or attention span, much more interesting.

So if you were Hal Jordan and wished up some tinted glasses so yellow objects looked rosy, would that be OK? Because it seems we're going on what colour things look. How about if you exposed the threat to ring-created sodium lamps, don't they make colours appear differently? Couldn't you use the ring to make yourself permanently colour-blind or unable to see yellow? Would that work?

I think generally it's been characterized as "whatever color it is from the "point of view" of the ring construct is what matters." So tinted specs don't help, because the construct will still be encountering yellow light or some such from the object at the point of contact. OTOH, if you wrapped the target in the same tinted material, then ring constructs could handle it without a problem.

That point of view can definitely be altered, though. In Ganthet's Tale Hal fired a blast at another GL while retreating at near-lightspeed, and it got Doppler-shifted from green to yellow and went through the guy's shields. Which was nifty. Larry Niven thought that one up.

Could different lighting schemes change the yellowness of a target in a useful fashion? Dunno, but it's quite plausible. It's a cool idea; I'd like to see it in a story.

Couldn't Flash have whizzed off within a millionth of a second and hauled a vat of pink paint into GL's flightpath? That would have been a lot more fun and satisfying than the dust-cloud.

Well, I thought the point (a point, anyway) was that Flash couldn't afford to step away from the folks he was shielding from the explosion. Otherwise, sure, or he coulda just caught John himself. (He could probably also have stolen John's speed and stopped his fall, or done any number of I'm-the-nigh-omnipotent-Flash things, but hey.)

Wouldn't you feel that paint posed a problem for the same reason you gave for dust, though? Namely that GL's still yellow but just doesn't look it?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:07 / 01.02.05
Flash "couldn't afford to step away" -- surely Flash can drop a brick in Seattle, race to China and make a cup of tea then get back long before that brick's hit the ground? I'm sure I have seen him collect his dry-cleaning so quickly his girlfriend saw the clothes as just appearing in his hand.

As for the paint, it would in theory pose the same issue for me except that you just explained and justified it. It would, however, look funner and be a bit more "plausible" than a dust cloud in terms of covering GL from head to foot as he powered back up.

Another question is, how does him uppercutting the Master change the fact that GL is yellow? Does one punch suddenly reset reality?
 
 
The Natural Way
16:31 / 01.02.05
God, will you listen to my twin waffling on about ropes and untying..... Shut up, Boboss. It was NEVER unclear to me.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:10 / 01.02.05
I, too, thought the Ultramarine's were being yelled at for...what? for being mind-controlled? All the superheroes, JLA included, have been taken over and used for evil. I know the Ultramarines were really being scolded for being all badass and killing people sometimes, but I didn't get them as being bloodthirsty or excessive from this arc.

>> Also, surely even a monologuing Grodd would notice Batman's bonds falling away and the Caped Crusader getting to his feet, I mean, he's right in front of him for fuck's sake. IMO, that's not comedy, that's silliness.

Yeah, this is a good point, and it's something I thought of when I first read it, have to say.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
22:03 / 01.02.05
I took the haraguing from the JLA to mean that their methods were too undisciplined and they were easy targets for this kind of set-up. If they were more restrained they wouldn't have rushed into the trap full bore.

I'm fascinated by the new play on the old DCU multiple earth's idea. We used to be living in Earth Prime. DC was Earth 1. Silver/Golden Age DC was Earth 2. The CSA was Earth 3.

Now, I think Morrison sorta reversed the angle he had in Animal Man. Superheroes are in the Real World and our world Qwewq is in a much smaller universe in their universe.

Essentially, he's using the old idea I'm sure we all had as a kid, that superheroes must exist somewhere and someday they'll find our world, to explore his common theme: that wonder is natural and the mundane unnatural.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:15 / 01.02.05
Flex Mentallo meets Wonder World.

This "imaginary" world is "bigger" than our real world. Meanwhile the "gods" of our real world mythology are on the same scale as them. Or at least that how the Huntsman/Nebular Man thing reads to me.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
16:06 / 02.02.05
The 'Batman Escape' scene could have done with more of an 'establishing' shot, making it clearer where each character was, and which direction they were facing. That first close up on page7 should have been a medium shot, showing Grodd with his back to Bats. Would have been perfectly clear then.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:29 / 02.02.05
It could be down to McGuiness - Morrison has had his scripts scuppered before by artistic misrepresentation...
 
 
The Falcon
18:01 / 06.02.05
Because I've nothing better to do here's some Ultramarines bios:

Squire

Knight

Jack O'Lantern

Fleur

Olympian

Goraiko (very informative, this one)

Impala (presumably the inspiration for Kid Impala)

Tasmanian Devil

Vixen
 
 
SiliconDream
01:41 / 07.02.05
Flash "couldn't afford to step away" -- surely Flash can drop a brick in Seattle, race to China and make a cup of tea then get back long before that brick's hit the ground? I'm sure I have seen him collect his dry-cleaning so quickly his girlfriend saw the clothes as just appearing in his hand.

Right, but here an entire building full of people were in the middle of being exploded, so to speak, and Wally had to keep all of their molecules constantly spinning. It's not too implausible that if he stepped away for even a split-second, they'd die either from the explosion or from molecular destabilization.

Yes, this doesn't particularly mesh with the timescale of his high-end speed feats, but then it always takes some extra suspension of disbelief to accept that Flash can't solve every problem everywhere in the world Right Now.

Another question is, how does him uppercutting the Master change the fact that GL is yellow? Does one punch suddenly reset reality?

Dunno...maybe his edits are temporary, or maybe GL just went around being yellow-but-dusty until the Master recovered from his mind control and changed him back.

I think it's weirder that the Master didn't just change the ring to yellow, but I guess GL needed to accomplish something.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:49 / 07.02.05
Interesting to see that Morrison was really using the backstory (from old JL Quarterly/ JL Europe comics) of the Jack O'Lanterns and such...
 
 
The Falcon
15:01 / 08.02.05
Apparently Grodd ate Godiva.
 
 
Aertho
15:04 / 08.02.05
Huh?
 
 
Aertho
15:11 / 08.02.05
Oh.

He did.

Ish 2, Grodd with crown, Nebuloh hears cosmic thunder, check piles of skulls and see violet coloured costume.

Someone want to alert "Women in Fridges" or shall I?
 
 
grant
17:46 / 08.02.05
Dude! Duncan! Add those bios over here!.

just login as you would to Barbelith and go, write, go!
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:28 / 08.02.05
CHAD, I think you should inform the peeps at WiR . . . perhaps it'll prompt them to update their site.
 
 
A
03:32 / 09.02.05
Apparently Grodd ate Godiva.

From the looks of the panels in that link, he was right to do so.
 
 
Aertho
13:31 / 09.02.05
Hm. What's THAT supposed to mean?

Anyway...
Wrote WIR. Don't know if they'll do anything.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:34 / 09.02.05
On a separate but related subject, part 1 of Giffen & Maguire's Can't Believe It's Not The Justice League comes out in 2 weeks - preview up at Pop Culture Shock now. Looks fun... and has Sue Dibny, alive!!
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
20:11 / 09.02.05
Oh shit, so it does. That's honestly depressing.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:33 / 10.02.05
I know! I wish she were only half-alive, writhing in agony on a bed of glass! That would be more realistic!!!!
 
 
Spaniel
12:54 / 10.02.05
That first close up on page7 should have been a medium shot, showing Grodd with his back to Bats. Would have been perfectly clear then.

Now that I've calmed down and got some distance - and had a chance to actually look at the issue - I totally agree.

It could be down to McGuiness - Morrison has had his scripts scuppered before by artistic misrepresentation...

Very true. The thought had occurred to me but I was too busy raging against Morrison to mention it - would have spoilt the effect.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:08 / 10.02.05
I know SOME rabid comic fan somewhere must have translated the Japanese that Aquaman speaks to Goraiko's 'operator.' Anyone...?

And are we to assume that Aquaman uses his limited telepathy to 'talk' to her and suddenly be fluent in Japanese?

As for "batman escapes," there are the "HNnnngghh! Nhgggghh!" sounds off-panel as the invisible Warmaker's soul helps Bats untie his bonds, which I don't think anyone's mentioned.

That shot of Aquaman throwing his very impressive javelin/spear thingie at the Olympian is weird cause it looks like the spear is just sort of bouncing off the Olympian's chest armor. Just seems kind of weak for such a big-deal spear to just kind of not do much damage.
 
 
fluid_state
13:14 / 10.02.05
And are we to assume that Aquaman uses his limited telepathy to 'talk' to her and suddenly be fluent in Japanese?


I'd just figure that having been the head of state for a nation that covers 70% of the planet, he'd picked up a few languages.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:15 / 10.02.05
>> It was all very lightweight, in a sense, much as I'd like to see the Knight whizzing past my window here in the infant universe of Qwewq with mini-spitfires in tow. Yeah, I'll believe in your sentient universes then, Grant.

Nice! I WANT TO BELIEVE, just like Fox Mulder.
 
 
Spaniel
13:17 / 10.02.05
"HNnnngghh! Nhgggghh!"

That's just rude.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:18 / 10.02.05
good point, fluid.
 
 
Spaniel
13:18 / 10.02.05
"HNnnngghh! Nhgggghh!"

That's just rude.
 
 
Billuccho!
20:09 / 10.02.05
I believe the "Hnnngh!" etc. was the sound of Batman knocking out the jet-ape guard(s). Check the speech balloons.

And yeah, I'd imagine Arthur would be fluent in quite a few languages. And I know I read the translation for that dialogue somewhere...
 
 
FinderWolf
01:48 / 13.02.05
I want a miniseries about Goraiko's cute operator!

Grant's opening lines about 'what to do in the event of a superhuman emergency' were terrific - "do not make eye contact, some of them emit x-rays and dangerous radiation" -- priceless.

Who are the apes that Batman has killed, I wonder...? He seems like the animal-loving type. That was probably just trash talk, I suppose.

You could just hear the Alan Moore 'splorch squipshh spoodch plorp' Swamp Thing sound effects as J'Onn J'Onzz reconstituted himself...

were those really haikus that Goraiko spoke in? Or maybe some were haikus and some just longer poetry...?
 
  

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