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J.L.A. Classified

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A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

18:11 / 30.01.05

Scott Sawyer's disembodied form and dialogue reminded me of the Negative Being from Doom Patrol.

23:46 / 30.01.05

On Goraiko and it's "operator"... I read that as the girl projecting a Tulpa with her mental powers... and it took the form of one of her toys. That would explain why Goraiko disapeared when the girl woke up

A

01:06 / 31.01.05

According to the DC comic's Encyclopedia i was flipping through in the library the other day, 4Dee and Vixen were in an issue of Wonder Woman at some point.

01:13 / 31.01.05

I was during the Witch and the Warrior story... in which all male heroes and villains were turned into anthropomorphosed animals, or just animals and released in NYC. Female villains were also transported to NYC to hunt down the men. WW rounded up EVERY DAMN female hero to stop the insanity.

Jimenez may have been a bit schmaltzy for some tastes, but he did do some amazingly good things for Diana. And that story really showcased the amount of heroines sitting in the sidelines of the DCU.

09:31 / 31.01.05

Right, can someone please explain to me how Batman gets free? I have a theory, sure, but I can find little solid evidence to back it up.

Here's my guess: the Batman on the spit is a robot, leaving the real Batman free to sneak up on Grodd.

So far the scene's just looking like a bout of sloppy ol' Grant. So, c'mon, help a Boboss out.

Haus of Mystery

09:38 / 31.01.05

Was it not something to do with Warmaker One? Haven't got the issue to hand tho' so who knows?

09:54 / 31.01.05

Yeah, maybe, It crossed my mind, but where is it made clear? Is it ever made clear?

Probably not. But that's okay 'cause everyone's doing super stuff!!111!!!!

A

10:03 / 31.01.05

He's Batman. They were only ropes. This Batman goes to Pluto in the space of a panel, do you think the comic's going to slow down for Batman to say "Behold! My greatest triumph! I have untied....... A ROPE!"?

10:11 / 31.01.05

Okay, so where is it on the page? When is it made clear?

Of course Bats could have untied himself, all sorts of things *could* have happened. I want to know what was supposed to have happened according to master storyteller Grant Morrison.

Haus of Mystery

10:35 / 31.01.05

Hmmm. I kind of like the way his shadow simply appears across Grodd, all 'Uh-Oh...'. I know what you're saying to a degree, yet Morrison pulled a similar trick in 'New World Order' where Batman takes down two of the White Martians off page. Sure this could be sloppy storytelling, or it could be the inherant mysteriousness of Batman, the only 'human' member of the League.

10:54 / 31.01.05

Didn't warmaker one's disembodied prescence help Batman out of his restraints while grodd was giving the speech?

11:17 / 31.01.05

Um, not sure about the NWO comparison, I mean, we knew what was going on there. It made sense. Here we're left trying to work out what the fuck's happened, for my money that's clumsy and messy and totally unnecessary. I mean, one panel Grodd's cooking the guy, the next Bats is standing there all superheroic-like.

By the way, I'm pretty much sold on the Warmaker explanation but it's not the explanation that worries me, it's the execution.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:26 / 31.01.05

GROOD: HOW DID YOU GET FREE

BATMAN: YOU FORGOT ABOUT WARMAKER ONE (HE IS STANDING RIGHT BEHIND)

I didn't think it got anymore blatant that that...

11:51 / 31.01.05

Yeah, there's a faint outline of W1 just behing Rotisserie Batman. I didn't notice it on first read, either, but it's such a fast-paced comic that I blew through it just trying to keep up. Even without noticing, though, it was perfectly clear to me; I don't think 3 panels illustrating "ghostly presence struggling to loosen ropes" would've helped. It's implied; It doesn't matter which gimmick Bats used to get free. He does have a million of 'em, after all.

12:06 / 31.01.05

Doesn't change anything. Warmaker frees him, so what?
As I said above an explanation doesn't make up for bad execution.
Now, instead of a mystery, I'm left with a fairly typical example of Morrisonian naughtiness, telling and not showing. Exposition as opposed to action.

Also, surely even a monologuing Grodd would notice Batman's bonds falling away and the Caped Crusader getting to his feet, I mean, he's right in front of him for fuck's sake. IMO, that's not comedy, that's silliness.

12:15 / 31.01.05

Couldn’t agree more, Bobossboy. I’ve read that bit over and over and still have no idea how Batman’s meant to have escaped.

The whole issue felt rushed to me, which was a shame. Another issue might have helped make things more clear. This is becoming my constant bleat about Grant’s work, unfortunately, as if his comment in Animal Man 26 about writing stories which don’t come to a proper conclusion was, in itself, a written sigil or whatever.

As ever, some great ideas and some fab sequences, but at the end I found myself wondering what had happened in parts. Which is always a bit disappointing.

12:15 / 31.01.05

I don't think 3 panels illustrating "ghostly presence struggling to loosen ropes" would've helped

Just one, or perhaps some new detail in a pre-existent panel. Not much to ask, but much better storytelling.

12:24 / 31.01.05

Ah, Dave, now we are two!
I should say that I liked the episode. It's fun, and a nice antidote to whatever else is going on in the world of booties and capes, but Morrison can be a sloppy guy and I'm fed up with very few people calling him on it.

12:26 / 31.01.05

'Cause calling people on their shit helps them to WRITE better.

13:01 / 31.01.05

>> Doesn't change anything. Warmaker frees him, so what?
As I said above an explanation doesn't make up for bad execution.

Yeah, it's a tiny bit sloppy but really not that big a deal, IMHO. Batman escapes, he always escapes, even if it was just a rope escape, that's pretty simple for Bats to do and we don't really need to see the details of how it happens. Plus, add the disembodied ghost dude hanging around (though if he's disembodied, how does he touch ropes? maybe if he focuses real hard a la the movie GHOST) and you've got a recipe for escape success.

I might have been nice to have a line saying how it was done but aside from a momentary, "Huh?" on my part, I wasn't too bothered by it.

13:06 / 31.01.05

in other words, I feel it's not warranting the outcry and demands for clarification that, say, the famous "SAVE" We3 issue got.

Haus of Mystery

13:09 / 31.01.05

but Morrison can be a sloppy guy and I'm fed up with very few people calling him on it.

What are you talking about? It's all anyone seems to do at the moment - see four pages devoted to one ambiguous panel in 'WE3#1'. It simply doesn'y bother me - I read it that Bats was biding his time. It fits with Mozzer's characterisation of him in the arc.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

13:20 / 31.01.05

Warmaker unties him. Batman TELLS Grood Warmaker untied him. The execution is fine. You're supposed to think "how the fuck..." and then it clicks. At least, it did for me.

13:22 / 31.01.05

Well, I'm glad it doesn't bother you. That's one less thing for you to worry about.

And yes, Finder, it's not a big deal in itself, but it is irritating if seen in the context of a number of similar storytelling glitches to be found elsewhere in Morrison's body of work.

I suppose I'm using this instance to make a broad complaint. Perhaps that's unfair, perhaps I should stop spoiling all the fun, but I can't help being a little irritated.

14:21 / 31.01.05

Well, while I felt the "save" discussion in We3 was warranted cause it was a major plot point and a little unclear to many people, this time around I feel like "Batman escapes, between his own escape artistry and the ghost dude, we're all set, next topic"...

miss wonderstarr

14:47 / 31.01.05

I agree with both points of view, to an extent. It is blatantly explained, in general terms, how Batman escaped -- but "realistically", how a ghost could untie ropes and allow Batman to stand up from a burning spit into attack mode while the villain has his face turned away for a couple of seconds is not adequately dealt with.

The question then becomes, perhaps, how much should we demand that kind of "realism" from this wacky SF-closet adventure.

On the other hand, if it's just accepted that Batman will escape, and could escape whenever he chose, there is no rationale for him remaining imprisoned, presumably in some pain and certainly of no use to his comrades: and in story terms, if we're meant to accept that "Bats can escape everything", having him trussed up at the end of #2 is no kind of cliffhanger.

16:56 / 31.01.05

Well Warmaker 1 is able to "pilot" his suit, so perhaps he's not as etherial as one would assume. Durring the page where Batman is being roasted you can see the humanoid shape appearing in the background intermingled with the smoke. I simple loosening of the ropes could be enough for Bantman to slip free. Or even the handing off of an edged batterang for rope cutting could get Bats free. Seems like Batman was waiting for Grodd to turn his back on him, it's also possible that BATMAN was a part of the JLA Instant Communication Psychic Friends Network and was timing his escape for maximum effect.

17:17 / 31.01.05

kovacs makes excellent points all around, I must say.

miss wonderstarr

19:15 / 31.01.05

That's very gratifying, FinderWolf. Unfortunately for everyone else, you have encouraged me to go on with my analysis.

Checking the page again, yes you can see an ethereal shape in the second panel, which then passes out of frame in the final panel. So that's when Scott did the job. However, the ropes are not noticeably looser in the final panel, so I think we're just supposed to suspend disbelief and accept the kind of pulp thriller "in one bound, Jack was free" logic here.

There is no way of making this rational and "realistic". Grodd growls in Batman's face, and Batman's still bound. Grodd says one further sentence, his back apparently turned. Meanwhile someone's huffing "UFF NNGGH", out of view. I thought on first reading this was him struggling out of the ropes, but think we have to assume this is the ape guards being served, because Batman's speech balloon comes from a totally different angle.

Then, within no more than ten seconds, Batman is standing, free of all his bonds, having achieved his balance and a combat stance, throwing two batarangs, at a safe distance from the fire, with TWO GUARDS flat cold at his feet.

(Maybe I'm being dim but I don't get how "your accomplice betrayed you, Grodd.")

I think we just have to take this as a "Batman is stone cold kickass" moment.

However, in character terms, if Batman could have got free whenever he wanted, he is wasting time in letting the villains wreck cities and endanger his friends.

And on another point, is there a good explanation for how Flash turns GL green again? How does whipping up a dust storm solve the problem? Is it just that GL gets dusty and isn't yellow anymore? Cause that's feeble.

19:59 / 31.01.05

your accomplice betrayed you

Nebuloh WANTED a confrontation with the JLA Big 7. He was supposed to keep the JLA contained, or otherwise occupied... but he didn't. I guess. That line confused me too.

20:06 / 31.01.05

Yeah, going from shiny yellow to khaki is what that whole dustcloud is about. Lame, but so is that whole "color weakness".

miss wonderstarr

20:29 / 31.01.05

The color weakness is good in a hokey Silver Age way though... I always liked it because it's such a way-out weakness. There is a good bit in the Scott Bukatman cult studs book "Matters of Gravity" -- which you almost sense he might have stolen from somewhere else -- where he asks funny questions like whether Hal Jordan was slightly vulnerable to, like, yellowy-orange. It's an endearingly lunatic super-trait: partly because GL must have been powerless against that most comical of objects, bananas. (In fact, why not make Stewart vulnerable to yellow, then bring on some apes to pelt him with their fave food?)

Anyway, this scene in JLA: C #3 is just weak beyond belief if that's the logic.

Here's how!

1. It doesn't really take Wally West "thinking at the speed of light" to come up with the idea of a dust cloud so John is no longer yellow.

2. John is already flying over/falling over clouds of dust before Flash has gone through every possible option at light speed and decided this is the best conceivable solution to a GL who's been technomagikally turned yellow.

3.If the problem is that John is now unable to use the ring on himself, he must be powerless: he can't fly and hasn't got any protection from the ring. So he still hits the ground without powers.

4. It is very hard to believe that within the space of one frame, John has become entirely coated in grey dust, head to foot.

5. And that when he flies up from the cloud again at high velocity, that dust sticks to him rather than being blown off.

6. Anyway, if he's coated in conveniently sticky grey dust within seconds, he is still yellow. The yellow is covered up, but he's yellow underneath.

7. If Nebuloh has such an astounding, world-changing power, why (other than fun comic book reasons) use it for something so petty? He might as well cut-edit-paste Stewart into the molten centre of the earth, and while he's at it fill Flash's body up with snails.

Next time, Grant... please ask me first

20:35 / 31.01.05

>> (Maybe I'm being dim but I don't get how "your accomplice betrayed you, Grodd.")

I have to be honest...this confused me too. Now all those who were confused by this can speak out without fear or shame or intimidation...let the thousands cry out!!!

20:42 / 31.01.05

7. If Nebuloh has such an astounding, world-changing power, why (other than fun comic book reasons) use it for something so petty? He might as well cut-edit-paste Stewart into the molten centre of the earth, and while he's at it fill Flash's body up with snails.

That's not Nebuloh. Nebuloh is the horny dude made of stars that Supes confronts at the end. Heh.

That's the Writer I think... what was his name anyway? I forget... the guy with the Kaballah cloak. Anyway, The Writer is actually Grant Morrison. As are they ALL! But the Writer more so, because that's the character that Ostrander turned Grant into once he was featured in Animal Man. Once he put his likeness into the book DCU owned, he was a character any writer could use. Clever that. Feeble, too.

20:49 / 31.01.05

If you really need it explained, it's easy enough to say that Flash running around in circles created something of an "air matress" for John to land on, he got covered in dust and go, used his GL powers to hold the dust and goo onto him, and then he beat up Whatshisname.

Or you can just take it at wacky Silver-Age-y face value like I did.

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