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Moderation requests & discussion thereof

  
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
13:27 / 08.07.05
That does kind of work for me. Tricky. I'd like Morpheus off Barbelith, personally, on the grounds that he has nothing of value to add and will take nothing of value from it. Failing that, I'd like him contained. Problem with deleting cretinously offensive stuff about the major incident is that it's a subjective call as to what deserves deletion, and that might come down to personal taste. Like, toksik's gag about putting firecrackers in buses and selling them as souvenirs made me want to punch him, but is it deletable or am I oversensitive? Likewise Zoskia's suggestion that Eris should be praised for saving the faithful, which may be more applicable to Morpheus' cod-mystic ramblings...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:28 / 08.07.05
Maybe I'm being a bit overemotional but I don't see why his crap in the Countdown thread and elsewhere isn't grounds for suspension myself.

Sure, I've seen magic-y types noodling around with the 777 thing elsewhere, but they've also expressed shock, dismay and sympathy for those affected. It looks like an attempt to make some kind of sense of what's going on rather than Morph's frankly chilling "Bwahahaa, I'm happy London got blowed up and I did it and I can prove it with sums" shit.

I'm going to try and avoid that thread in future.
 
 
Ganesh
13:28 / 08.07.05
Go on, then. I contend that, although the protocol with The Knowledge eventually became Scorched Earth, how we handle other irritating individuals is a grey area. Morpheus is hardly a board-spammer: his usual pattern is to post in 'Countdown', have the piss taken out of him for a while, then go away again. Sure, he occasionally posts elsewhere, but not with the frenzied drive of past trolls. I think 'banishing with laughter' is, in the context of the Conversation, a reasonably good way to handle him.

(Of course, now he'll go spam the board and prove me wrong...)
 
 
Ganesh
13:31 / 08.07.05
Perhaps I'm being a bit overpragmatic, but I remember how difficult it can be maintaining a Scorched Earth policy with someone who's trolling really persistently. In the absence of out-and-out hate-stuff (and, personally speaking, I think Morpheus is more mad than bad), I'd go for a more conservative approach.

But hey, I'm not a moderator anymore. Do yer stuff.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:37 / 08.07.05
Like, toksik's gag about putting firecrackers in buses and selling them as souvenirs made me want to punch him, but is it deletable or am I oversensitive? Likewise Zoskia's suggestion that Eris should be praised for saving the faithful, which may be more applicable to Morpheus' cod-mystic ramblings...

Both different. toksik was only doing in a thread which invited that kind of stuff, and he's got some connection to London which makes it arguable that it was "only way to stay sane" gallows humour. Zoskia was being a bit insensitive, but meant no harm.

Morpheus came back to gloat after he'd already decided that it was the British contingent of Barbelith who weren't giving him the respect he deserved. Think about that. People died, and he came back to gloat about that fact. Yes, it ought to be grounds to kick him off the board. Of course it should.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:38 / 08.07.05
Unless Tom's prepared to ban him, then any moderators in the fora he's posting to are leaving themselves open to a complete nightmare of work, should he decide that having his posts deleted is a good enough reason to go on a huge spamming spree. If that's what you want to do, then go ahead, but if it results in this spilling over to other areas of the board, I for one will be mightily pissed.

The other alternative is that people simply stop responding to him, as it's obviously not making him shut up. I know how likely that is, though.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:39 / 08.07.05
This is true, although it's probably less true now that the lead time between losing a suit and getting a new one, even if your stealth sk33ls are grand, is so much longer. Morpheus is pretty obviously delusional, even by the standards of Barbelith, and also highly narcissistic, even by the etc. However, since he doesn't listen and we have no possibility therefore of helping him to adjust to reality, I'm not sure how fair we should let that affect our actions. Mad ro bad, he's still upsetting other people.

Like I say, tricky.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:46 / 08.07.05
The other alternative is that people simply stop responding to him, as it's obviously not making him shut up. I know how likely that is, though.

Well yes: one of the reasons I moved for that thread to be locked was that there are 10 Barbelith people posting the same joke - and keeping the thread at the top of the conversation - for every 1 Morpheus post. But it's not banished him yet...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:50 / 08.07.05
So, either ban Morpheus, which I think is not an unreasonable response, or keep him contained in one thread? He hasn't shhown a lot of interest in contributing on Barbelith in general, although I think that would probably change if "Weaken the Countdown" was locked. If Tom's up for it, I'd be more than happy to have a PM sent to Morpheus explaining why what he has done is unacceptable, and that even if he disagrees he should be aware that if he does something we think is as bad again he will be banned, or even banning him right now, but we can't do that ourselves. So, in the meantime, delete if necessary outside "Countdown"? Having seen the way his nastiness is leading others to trivialise the situation in "Countdown", I'm reconsidering whether it should be locked...
 
 
Ganesh
13:53 / 08.07.05
But it's not banished him yet...

Not from the board generally, no. In the past, however, the pattern has been that he's posted, loads and loads of people have taken the piss and his comments have been diluted out of existence, for a while at least. It's one of those things Barbelith does quite well, I think. When he returns, he generally (if not exclusively) posts to that same thread (itself quite unusual in a troll), people respond with ridicule, he goes away again.

Is that thread bobbing to the top of the Conversation a problem, particularly? It's not like the other stuff's being lost, is it?

I mention the bad vs mad thing because it has some bearing on the perceived intention here. I don't think he's come back to gloat evilly that something bad's happened to London; I think he's come back to gloat that he was right because it all fits into his numerological system. Subtly different, but different.
 
 
Ganesh
13:56 / 08.07.05
Frankly, I think the 'Countdown' thread should stay open until Tom's available to enforce a full banning, if that's considered appropriate. I actually don't think he's leading others to "trivialise the situation"; he's leading us to take the piss.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:45 / 08.07.05
I think a brief cooling-off period might be helpful before deciding on bannings and mass deletions. Things are still a bit raw.

For myself, I remember how irritable and heated I got through late 2001: I hate to think what I might've done given mod powers... and who I might have punched, had I long enough arms.

Maybe best to let it ride for a while—put Morpheus on Ignore, let him have his little I YAM TEH PROPHESIE!!!1! moment, and reconvene in September.

It's an idea, anyway.
 
 
Ganesh
15:58 / 08.07.05
U R TEH SNESIBLE!!!1!1!!, Jack.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:31 / 09.07.05
Do people have any strong opinions on a seperate thread for each of jhw's Dark Knight issues? We did end up doing it for Vinarama...
 
 
Bed Head
19:29 / 09.07.05
Yeah. I do. Same objection as last time: he’s not contributing anything to the board except threads in which he plugs his stuff, and he’s not even doing that with anything other than the bare minimum of involvement. The topic starters for each of the Vimanarama threads were interested in talking about the comic. His last batman thread died on its arse, but I’d say link to that one and lock the new one. Just because I hate spam.

Also, he’s already started a thread - weeks and weeks ago, the last time he visited barbelith, presumably - for publicising the fact that he’s going to be selling things at a comic convention. The new one is just a duplicate, but with even less detail than the original.
 
 
Never or Now!
20:52 / 09.07.05
I don't think we have a definite policy, as far as comics mini-series go, whether to have one single thread or a thread for each issue? Personally I think it should be one for each issue, and I think the Seven Soldiers threads are all starting to get a bit overloaded, but probably it's a matter of demand: and there certainly isn't that demand for a thread for each issue of jhw3's Legends; and, on top of that - and much as I really love his artwork - I'm finding his posts here right now a bit offensive. Did we have a word with him before? If not it's definitely time.

Er... Also. The posts made by Realsie Fairy Lula whom everybody seems calls Olulabelle (?) in page 15 and onwards of the primary London terrorism thread, after her first post and after Tom had happened to misunderstand a point that wasn't particulartly important and that *was* quite ambiguous, just seem really quite offensive to me. I appreciate people are and were stressed but I'd love to see the final few pages cleansed of such unnecessary and unconstructive bad feeling. I was astonished when someone decided to drag the thread down to the level of their own personal temper tantrum. Sorry if that's just me being rude.
 
 
Bed Head
21:09 / 09.07.05
That possibly is you just being rude, mystery caller. Those two posters have made it up. Very long, very stressful day + one minor misunderstanding = nothing particularly modworthy, over a day later.

Also: cleansed?
 
 
Ganesh
21:09 / 09.07.05
Mmm. That does come across as slightly rude, because both the question of whether Olulabelle's first post was "ambiguous" and whether she subsequently had a "temper tantrum" are somewhat subjective. I'd tend to say 'no' on both counts: I read her post about the BBC unequivocally as "who else is like the BBC" fondness, and the phrase "temper tantrum" is suggestive of self-centred narcissism, which I think her reaction was not. Tom has apologised for misinterpreting 'Lula's words, and that's pretty much that. I'm unsure why it's being brought up here. Are you suggesting deleting the posts concerned, or what?
 
 
Jack Fear
21:25 / 09.07.05
To clear up a minor point for Mr. Moonlight: "Olulabelle" is the longest-used and most familiar name of the poster now calling hirself "Realsie Fairy Lula." The name change makes things confusing, but those who keep careful track of who's who, and who have pre-existing relationships, may tend to revert back to longstanding names. (see also The Dupre = Randy, David "Papi" Ortiz = Todd, etc)
 
 
Never or Now!
21:56 / 09.07.05
Ah shit I really don't want any conflict, but her post *was* ambiguous to the extent that Tom mis-interpreted it, and I did too, and after that...

No. No harm done at all except now everyone thinks I'm the sort of person who might start slagging off the BBC in a thread about a day like today, which is just the most joyous and lovely thought and one I will delight in taking to bed.

Again, I'm sorry, but that ridiculous "Discordian woo-hoo!" post in the Temple was challenged and this doesn't seem all too dissimilar to me: someone wants to relate these attacks, and the presence Barbelith has had throughout them, to the level of a potential bad night's sleep. I just found those posts about her being considered a troll for no reason whatsoever...

Yeah. Obviously. And now I am not shutting up, so I am presumably all the trolls ever to have appeared on Barbelith too.

...quite inappropriate in that thread of all possible threads.
 
 
Ganesh
21:56 / 09.07.05
Not everyone is considerate/unimaginative enough to stick to a single user-name for yeeears on end...
 
 
Never or Now!
22:00 / 09.07.05
ho ho M'sieur Ganesha
 
 
Ganesh
22:01 / 09.07.05
Mister Moonlight, Tom misinterpreted the post. He's apologised for that. It's done and dusted. What can possibly be gained here by your reviving the minor misunderstanding in question? If you're proposing a moderation request (eg. delete Olulabelle's and Tom's threads) then say so unequivocally, so we can agree or disagree. Otherwise, I'd respectfully ask you to butt the fuck out of a matter that's been settled to the satisfaction of both parties.

(And I'd like to add that this is the first and last time I will ever use the phrase "butt the fuck out". Thankyou.)
 
 
Olulabelle
23:20 / 09.07.05
Look, I'm sorry about that.

I had had a horrible day, my sister lives in London and works really near to all the bombings, lots and lots of my friends do too since I also used to live in London and work in the city centre. There was also all the London Lither's to worry for, quite a lot of whom I've met IRL and really, really like.

I wanted to post something nice about the BBC, Tom misread it and so did lots of other people and I just got upset about why anyone would think that I am such a bitch I'd be slagging them off on a day like this.

"...just seem really quite offensive to me."

Offensive is a really emotive word and I am genuinely upset that you think I was offensive. I honestly didn't mean to be. I think I did overreact a bit about what Tom said and I am sorry I did, but I object to that being deemed as "dragging the thread down to the level of their own personal temper tantrum." The BBC's coverage of all these events, including 9/11 and Madrid has been, in my opinion, impeccable. That opinion is very important to me given the atrociousness of coverage elsewhere internationally. I wasn't having a hissy fit, I was truly shocked that what I meant as a compliment could have been so misread.

"someone wants to relate these attacks, and the presence Barbelith has had throughout them, to the level of a potential bad night's sleep

I wasn't relating the attacks or Barbelith's presence thoughout them to my potential bad night's sleep at all. I was relating the fact that people might think I didn't give a shit to a bad night's sleep.

Oh God. I don't want to be a policy topic. If someone wants to ditch (cleanse) my posts if they think it's fucked the thread then fine. But you'll have to PM all the other people, (not just Tom since there are also other related posts, but including him about his apology) and get them to agree to ditch theirs too, or else it's going to read really, really weirdly.

I wish people would say if they have a problem at the time. Random bringing it upness in a policy thread just makes things worse if you ask me.

Mister Moonlight, I'm really sorry if I upset you, I truly wasn't trying to detract from the subject of the thread and if you think I have then I would rather that whole posting section is deleted. I hate the fact that people who read it might now be thinking what you clearly do and the fact that it's become a discussion in the policy is utterly awful.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
02:53 / 10.07.05
Bit flummoxed as to how come this is so terribly offensive myself, TBH. There was a bit of confusion, it got sorted out... why the fuss?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:10 / 10.07.05
Yeah, I really can't see the problem. I thought the whole thing was a little upsetting to watch, as it always is when peoples' feelings are hurt due to a misunderstanding*, and I was relieved to see it resolved, but I just don't get that it's a big- or indeed, any size of- deal.

*having it brought up again like this I find upsetting in the same way. Just so's you know.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:13 / 10.07.05
Mister Moonlight, have you had previous usernames which also consisted of two words beginning with the same letter?
 
 
Ganesh
07:47 / 12.07.05
Of course, now the Malkavian One has posted on the Big Brother thread, my fight for his right to post crap in his own thread may be just a tiny bit less vigorous...
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
08:03 / 12.07.05
I like that elsewhere he posted:
a g9 with Ganesh and Haus' poor mutilated family and friends equals
but it was posting in the Big Brother thread that really attracted your ire...
 
 
Ganesh
08:31 / 12.07.05
Oh, absolutely. It's not what he posts but where he posts that concerns me. Catshit is fine if it's confined to the litter tray.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:40 / 12.07.05
And let's not forget his singularly helpful and well thought out contribution to the Temple.
 
 
Ganesh
11:46 / 12.07.05
Welllll, the single biggest mitigating factor in Morpheus's favour, as I see it, has been the fact that his 'contributions' have been (relatively) localised. Were that to change, I'd happily go Scorched Earth on his posterior.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:59 / 12.07.05
It might well be none of my business and it's entirely possible that it has already been tried, but has anyone tried communicating with Morpheus directly? Presumably when he joined he supplied an email address that checked out.

Would it be an idea for one of the senior 'Lithers to email him and ask him to calm it down a bit?

It's entirely likely he'll respond as normal. But it might be worth a try.

Like I say, might not be any of my business.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:04 / 12.07.05
Maybe, but it can be one of the other senior 'Lithers. I've got better things to do tha try to reach out to a guy who's pretty much ticking off every box on the psycho card. Getting into personal correspondance with people like this is a good way to aquire a stalker.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:43 / 12.07.05
That's fair enough, although using a one-shot Hotmail/Yahoo address to contact him could avoid that. Even if it is only to give him a warning that his behaviour is bringing him close to potential banning. Then he wouldn't be able to harrass the sender.

He may not care, or may see it as confirmation of his, apparently rather paranoid, opinions. But then the gesture has been made and if the decision is taken to ban him, it can be done knowing that alternatives were tried.

I don't mind being the messenger on this one, always happy to help. But I'd prefer the meat of the message to be agreed on by consensus as I haven't really encountered him yet (although I have read the blocked thread out of perverse interest).

The only other alternative is to throw him off Barbelith surely?
 
  

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