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Harry Potter And The Goblet of Fire

 
  

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Goodness Gracious Meme
00:29 / 19.11.05
And oh my god, Frances de la Tour! Hurrah!
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:27 / 20.11.05
Do you mean Fleur Delacour?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
05:03 / 20.11.05
oh, sorry, the actress who played Madame Maxine, I see. I never knew her name before.
 
 
Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!
10:47 / 20.11.05
far better than in ook

I know what was intended there, but now all I can think about is Terry Pratchett's Librarian...
 
 
■
21:47 / 20.11.05
No fucking quidditch.

Mike Newell, I love you.


Me, too. So glad about that. I found myself actually enjoying it rather than worrying about how well it had been done. Swathes of Rowling expository shit sluiced away to reveal a rather ripping yarn that stands up on its own. Gambon's accent was all over the shop, though, wasn't it?
Also very impressed by the pensieve. Cameos used properly and acted well: Miranda R, Frances de la Tour, and Ralph was very threatening - took me a while to work out who it was under the baldyness. In all, I reckon the best so far. Best of all:
No
Fucking
Quidditch.
 
 
Chiropteran
12:05 / 21.11.05
No
Fucking
Quidditch.


(Even Rowling's sick of the quidditch by now -- she said after HBP that she's written her last quidditch match and it's over for the series. Cool enough sport, but tedious to describe on the page and a waste of non-narrative screentime.)

Moment where he shoots his cuffs before cuffing his students=GGMwobble.

You and us both... I think the best Snape moment, though, was in the background of the climactic Scooby-doo scene - the quick sidelong look at Potter when it was revealed who had actually been raiding his storeroom. I laughed out loud, but no one else I was with even noticed it.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:59 / 21.11.05
Oh god, absolutely, on the glance. Perfect. Point where I realised I'd selected my film-dates wisely, as we were all torn between giggling and swooning.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:59 / 21.11.05
we were all torn between giggling and swooning.

Alas, my wife was still sobbing from the preceding scene...
 
 
Chiropteran
17:02 / 21.11.05
(Already put in a mod request for the spoiler - sorry about that...)
 
 
FinderWolf
17:08 / 21.11.05
Seeing it tonite - will report soon.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
17:45 / 21.11.05
No
Fucking
Quidditch.


The best part about this is that he totally tricks you into thinking there is going to be- you're all resigned for a drawn-out sequence of people abusing their crotches (seriously the brooms look amazingly painful) and then bam- cut away and the ensuing euphoria carries you through your disappointment that the Death Eaters aren't styled as a black-robed KKK.

Overall I was really impressed with the amount of extraneous crap that was jettisoned- yeah, a lot of it was character development (especially of minor characters) but a lot of it was exposition about an overly convoluted plot (just what the hell was the point of Bertha Jorkins, anyway? Anyone?) that was made admirably un-convoluted this time around. Sure I missed stuff- I would have really loved to see the falling-out between Maxine and Hagrid. Going along with that and the KKK observation above, I wish the Death Eaters had been accurately portrayed as a bunch of murderous racists, and, more generally, that the racist attitudes of a lot of the wizarding world re muggles and non-wizard magical creatures had been demonstrated, but whatever. If the price I have to pay for a fast-moving, exciting HP movie is the loss of some exposition, so be it.

Was a bit disappointed with the casting of Krum- I liked him when he was surly and awkward- but I thought the kids were excellent this time around. There were some Harry/Ron moments especially that I don't think would have been possible in the last film. The graveyard scene in its entirety was also really well done, and Cedric's death genuinely emotional.

I'm not sure if I like this better than the third movie- I loved the atmosphere of that one- but they did a good job on a much more difficult adaptation. I might actually go see it again.

Oh yeah, and the bathtub scene? Genuinely creepy.
 
 
Chiropteran
18:08 / 21.11.05
Oh yeah, and the bathtub scene? Genuinely creepy.

Especially with the extratextual knowledge that the actress who plays Myrtle, Shirley Henderson, is 40. (Speaking of which, does anyone happen to know why they cast someone so much older - is there anything in the CoS DVD commentary?)

While Harry was slipping into the tub, there was one guy in the audience shouting over the titters and gasps (by way of admonishment): "Fourteen! Foooourteeeeen!"
 
 
Chiropteran
18:22 / 21.11.05
...the Death Eaters aren't styled as a black-robed KKK.

Actually, they were styled precisely like black-robed KKK, and the first image of them marching through the flames in their peaked hats and masks made the comparison more directly than the same scene in the book*. Unfortunately, all we got was the style, and that whole strand of the plot was never picked up -- even though it sets up what is arguably one of the most important themes in the latter half of the series (thus far). The mixed-race discrimination with Hagrid, while also important, could conceivably wait until OotP where it would be exemplified by Umbridge. Hopefully (hopefully hopefully) the films aren't going to shy away from it entirely...

*It could be that the director was hoping the image would carry sufficient visceral weight to get the comparison across, but if that's the case I think it was still a miscalculation not to be explicit about the anti-Muggle hate.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
20:13 / 21.11.05
...the Death Eaters aren't styled as a black-robed KKK.

Actually, they were styled precisely like black-robed KKK, and the first image of them marching through the flames in their peaked hats and masks made the comparison more directly than the same scene in the book*


I was thinking in terms of the skull masks- I always pictured them with the typical KKK hood- but you're right, and I'm dumb.
 
 
■
20:33 / 21.11.05
I was slightly annoyed by a guy at work (who is willing to excuse the most ridiculous shite in comics as escapism) claiming that there was too much unexplained that people who hadn't read the books could hope to understand. I said that was arse, and that you could work it all out if you thought about it. Did quite well until he brought up the whole "why were innocent kids stuck under water ready to be drowned?" question. We know they would have been fine, but y'know, it's a good point.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:53 / 22.11.05
Well, I have mixed feelings.

** SPOILERS ** From here on...


..

----




I'd say it's decent overall but definitely not as good as the third - Goblet's flaws are pretty much all due to a weak screenplay adaptation (not so much the material covered in such a mammoth book, I thought that was done rather well, but in terms of dialogue - the 'show don't tell' rule is violated all over the place as characters always say exactly what they feel and almost none of the dialogue has much of the J.K. Rowling style to it) and a directorial vision that is kind of all over the place.

For the first 20 min. or so I was on board and thought 'this is going to be pretty good!' But once Ron got pissed at Harry for Harry being in the contest (which conflict was both written & directed pretty poorly, I thought), it went downhill from there. The Yule Ball was fun, though. Hermione's hissy fit at the end verged on a bit much - some people in the theater laughed at the end bit where she takes off her shoes in frustration on the staircase, Ron and Harry just having left, but I couldn't tell if it was 'ha, look at this funny teen drama moment' or 'wow, this is bad teen drama'. Maybe a bit of both.

The actors are all great, although I wish Rupert/Ron got more to do than grimace, look sullen, look pissy, get freaked out/terrified or be all smiles. Not much characterization for ol' Ron in this movie. The actor who plays Lucius Malfoy is still one of my favorites and is sold in every movie. Altough Rickman/Snape is always great, he gets less to do here and some of his bits seem pushed (would Snape REALLY smack Ron & Harry about their heads multiple times in class when they're paying attention a la the Three Stooges or Skipper hitting Gilligan upside the head repeatedly? I don't think Snape does this in the book, this slapstick seemed unfitting for Snape, who it seems to me would much rather give a cutting remark or detention or other intellectual/emotional humiliation than hit his students in class. though maybe someone can quote me a bit from a book where Snape hits children, I could be wrong I suppose, though I have read all the books but don't have amazing recall of each bit in them).

Rafe/Ralph (I just like to type "Rafe" as it helps me pronounce his confounding name) is OK as Voldemort but really left me going 'eehhh...' , although this I feel is more because the scene isn't directed/paced very well (I felt no suspense, Voldy rants a lot and shoots one beam at Harry with his wand which becomes 1 stream of dueling bolts that lasts 3 minutes; it's as boring as Luke & Darth locking swords only one time, but very intensely, in a climactic fight). The camera angles on him almost play up the fact that here's a regular guy with a lot of makeup on, presenting him in a way I found staid and boring, very hyper-real. They couldn't shoot him from some scary warped camera angles? They couldn't put an eerie glow around his body or his eyes? Or that bald head of his?

I went into this wanting to love the movie and especially wanting to love the debut of Voldemort with a body. I figure this is the villain we've built up for 4 movies, his entrance had better be on a par with Darth Vader/The Emperor/The Joker. And I found it pretty lacking...the way the scene was played when the spirits of his parents show up (and others that Voldy has killed) seemed blah to me, as did Cedric's death (although even in the book I felt like 'um, we're supposed to be all sad about this supporting-ish character who was basically introduced in this book and who's just a nice guy jock who we don't get to know all that well?' I do remember just feeling the fear that a student, a teenager with their whole promising life ahead of them was killed and that meant shit was really gonna come down now, it was war; but it being Cedric didn't make me care much more)

The final scene with our 3 leads wrapping up felt like the end of a mediocre hour-long TV adventure drama episode - 'well, we've had our adventure, a few lame lines and we walk off into the sunset.' (Director Mike Newell literally ends the movie with a sunset on a lake. Hardly a 'this is war, kids are getting killed and Voldy's back to terrorize us all' ending) I didn't buy Hermione's 'everything's going to change now' terror, that moment didn't work for me.

Oh, and I thought the eulogy for Cedric was the worst, most cliche, cheesy, unmoving, unemotional eulogy I've ever heard for a character in my life. And let me take this opportunity to say I'm not a big fan of Michael Gambon as Dumbledore - he's ok but lacks a paternal presence, or much presence at all, for me. His delivery of the eulogy speech (and the camera shots during it, boring boring boring) left me even more blah than the bad eulogy itself.

But the movie does fit in a lot of stuff, and I have to give Newell some credit, given that it's a damn hard novel to put into a 2-hour movie. And the CGI dragon bit was pretty cool. Brendan Gleeson ROCKED as Mad-Eye and Rita Skeeter was hilarious. Maggie Smith is always fantastic and classy and her stuff in this movie was no exception.

So that's my two cents. Worth seeing but you just might be thinking "aAaahh,the third movie was SOOO GOOD and this is just not nearly as good!"
 
 
FinderWolf
12:16 / 22.11.05
Also, was I the only one who pictured Neville Longbottom as shorter and more rotund, and not the tall lanky actor of the movies? (I don't recall if J.K. had a specific body type for him described in the books)
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:36 / 22.11.05
I basically have to agree with you, FinderWolf. I left the movie feeling quite let down. GoF is my favorite Potter book, and there seemed to be something lacking in this adaptation of it. PoA was a terribly perfect adaptation, and the first 2 movies were serviceable. But Newell didn't really seemed to understand what makes GoF work. GoF is a long mystery novel, and the film version was sorely missing that element of puzzling out what is going on.

er, SPOILERS?






eh?




Ok, the entire Moody/Crouch subplot to the entire endeavour jettisoned some important tidbits...Moody's dustbins? The movie should have used that story as the mystery that holds the plot together, rather than as mostly a side note, handled mostly in exposition.

Also, the Ron/Harry thing wasn't handled with much finesse. One minute Ron was mad at him without much preamble. In the book, it happens over the course of a few events...seems more natural, and you can see Ron's point of view better.

Snape was acting extremely out of character, and WTF was up with Filch being the comedy center of the movie?
 
 
Chiropteran
12:47 / 22.11.05
( but you're right, and I'm dumb.

Oh dear, I didn't mean it like that... :S)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:49 / 22.11.05
Oh yeah, and the bathtub scene? Genuinely creepy.

Less creepy, but along the same lines, see also Rita Skeeter trapping Harry in the broom cupboard and edging towards doing a Mrs.Robinson on him. Harry looks appropriately nervous.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:51 / 22.11.05
(though, speaking personally, being trapped in a cupboard with a flirtatious domineering Miranda Richardson sounds fiiiine to me.)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:58 / 22.11.05
Harry/Cedric slash

I'm thinking you mean amongst others, The Moment In The Maze? Which, having no sympathy for H/C in the slightest, I still found rather sweet and swoonsome.
 
 
Chiropteran
13:23 / 22.11.05
The Moment In The Maze?

Indeed...
 
 
FinderWolf
13:51 / 22.11.05
>> Less creepy, but along the same lines, see also Rita Skeeter trapping Harry in the broom cupboard and edging towards doing a Mrs.Robinson on him. Harry looks appropriately nervous.

>> (though, speaking personally, being trapped in a cupboard with a flirtatious domineering Miranda Richardson sounds fiiiine to me.)

Yes and yes. She was certainly doing the Betty Boop/Marilyn Monroe-type thing...and I mean that in a good way.

I actually noticed while watching the scene with Moaning Myrtle that the actress playing Myrtle looked 30 or above. Weeird.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:38 / 23.11.05
I think Finderwolf sums it up nicely for me, good, but not as good as Prisoner. That looked a lot more visually interesting, there were some nice touches here, like the graveyard and the bathroom, but I feel Mike Newell took the darkness of the book a bit too literally, I loved the bathtub scene because it had colour in it. And if that guy in the cinema thought it was going too far, the Camden Odeon showed an advert before it about not going in unlicensed minicabs in case you get raped.

It started off strongly, I think I owe GGM money as she correctly pointed out ages ago that they didn't need to have any World Cup Quidditch at all. But it stutter-stepped with the Winter Ball which completely destroyed all tension. It just about works in the book because Rowling has devoted so much time to making these characters if not three-dimensional then at least present. In the films the Patels effectively appear to go to the ball with Harry and Ron, so it's difficult to care about them. As Lepidopteran said, it's illustrating the books for people who have read the books. As with the Patronus stag in Prisoner, I don't think the film establishes in it's own right exactly what happens with the ghosts in the graveyard (they have Dumbledore mumble about the 'Prior Incantantum' or whatever but don't explain it) so Harry's survival doesn't make sense. I've just had to go and reread that part of the book to remind myself. Bad filmmakers. In your bed!

But lovely, lovely David Tennant, I can forgive much for David Tennant...
 
 
FinderWolf
16:52 / 23.11.05
I did think it was fun that Harry and Ron totally ignored their dates, the Patel sisters...I don't remember exactly how that scene is done in the book, but most mainstream movies would make sure their heroes/lead male characters were 'nice guys' who would at least dance with their dates even if they didn't fancy them. But Harry and Ron are real frustrated teens in that they're totally self-absorbed and they don't pay much attention to their dates. The bit where Ron's date says "are you at least going to ask me to dance?" and Ron sulkily says "No" got one of the bigger laughs in the movie when I saw it.
 
 
Morgana
11:28 / 25.11.05
Sneaking in and using this opportunity for a first posting as newly-registered member...

Am I the only Snape-fan who found the missing rosebush-scene deeply disappointing? I'd happily swapped the cuff-part for it: funny, droolworthy, but - I agree - not really Snape-style. Blasting amorous students would have been so much funnier - and completely fitting into the line the movie took.

I think they did a very good job on Moody - though what became of "constant vigilance"? - and Barty sen., whom I'd imagined completely different, but who really convinced me in his obsessive-compulsive-close-to-psychotic-ness.

Voldemort, on the other hand, is the uncreepiest villain I 've ever seen. He's rather ridiculous than terrifying. Lucius Malfoy isradiating much more power than him in the graveyard-scene.

But the worst thing is that again they omitted great important parts of the background-story. As in PoA you're never told who the Marauders actually were, now the deatheater-trials are nearly completely left out, and the whole conflict with the Ministry is missing.

Of course you can't put everything into a movie, and of course some action is needed (and the Dragon-Chase was pretty cool, as was the labyrinth), still I don't think the plot should suffer that much in favour of slapstick and special effects.

But apart from that, it's a very entertaining movie, and I'm sure I'll watch it again some time.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:04 / 25.11.05
The problem with Voldemort is that he's like Sauron, he's always more scary when he's not there. When he is he's always going to be a letdown. Fiennes did seem to be aiming for 'simmering menace', he could have perhaps done with being stockier, instead he seemed to be 'bleached skin naked guy'.

He might be better off when he's more active towards the end of the next film...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:15 / 25.11.05
Looking through the book again, the ending of this film version really grates on me more, simply for the missing Dumbledore vs. Fudge argument. That would have done an extremely good job of setting up the next film adaptation, as that divide is the main crux of the story. Now they need to set that up in the beginning through a load of exposition.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:46 / 25.11.05
Trying in vain to find something to add that hasn't been said by anyone...my thoughts ran along the lines of Finderwolf and Our Lady and Morgana...

...eh...I would rather have done without the shot of Flitwick crowd-surfing while the Wyrd Sisters played generic rock. I couldn't help but roll my eyes at that.

I guess all in all it was good where I expected it to be terrible, and kinda mediocre where I wanted it to be great. I left the theater feeling confused and slightly dissapointed. But I will admit the dragon challenge seemed much more frightening for Harry than the book made it appear, especially when he takes two steps outside the cave and almost gets smashed immediately.
 
 
Catjerome
20:42 / 25.11.05
I enjoyed individual scenes, but I wasn't that impressed by the overall whole. Lots of stops and starts and sputtering.

I could've enjoyed it, but the bit that capped it for me was the happy goodbye-fest at the end of the school year. After a student has been killed! And his eulogy was just delivered in the previous scene! The parting should've been somber to underline the "dark days are ahead, Harry, you're kinda fucked" bit from Dumbledore just ten minutes before that. But instead it's all hugs and laughter and "wow, everything's changing" smiles. Gah. That wrecked it for me.

Oh, except for one more thing: It's been a while since I read *Goblet of Fire*, but was everyone as passive in the book as they were in the movie? Nobody seemed to be very proactive - they just stood around goggling while bad things happen and then just react or say "Well, there's nothing we can really do, so I guess we should ride it out." Even Dumbledore - most of his role seemed to be announcing things and running around in a bit of a panic when things went bad.
 
 
■
21:02 / 25.11.05
the happy goodbye-fest at the end of the school year. After a student has been killed! And his eulogy was just delivered in the previous scene!

Yeah, well I think that is actually fairly realistic. There's an unreality to death, funerals and the like that I've noticed where everybody ends up being eerily cheerful once the main rituals are over. You're right about the passivity, though: the plot seemed to just wash over everyone and Harry rode the waves.
 
 
invisible_al
00:28 / 26.11.05
Anyone else notice the 'Italian Facist' style of the wizards court in the Pensive? The costumes of the guards were blackshirts almost to a tee and the judges costume I think was inspired by that as well. I liked it as you finally see the 'Ministry' in a different light here, not the bumbling fools but show trials and torture.

The bits I liked the best were the 'teenagers' stuff and the Yule ball was my favourite scene of the whole film, Ron and Harry *slap* sort it out .
 
 
Mistoffelees
15:55 / 27.11.05
@FinderWolf:

I actually noticed while watching the scene with Moaning Myrtle that the actress playing Myrtle looked 30 or above. Weeird.

You got a keen eye!
The actress playing Myrtle turns 40 this christmas.

From imdb:

"Shirley Henderson (...) being age 35 at the time that she first played Moaning Myrtle, is the oldest actor to play a Hogwarts student in the Harry Potter films."

link
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:42 / 27.11.05
Catjerome Oh, except for one more thing: It's been a while since I read *Goblet of Fire*, but was everyone as passive in the book as they were in the movie?

It's been a while for me too, but I would *guess* it's a byproduct of the ruthless triming of the books down to a script that can be made into a film. Look at the foreign students. They weren't exactly well realised in the book, Rowling rolling out her best comedy French accent for Madame Maxime and Fleur, but in the entire film they have about one line each. Hermione spends a lot of the book involved with the House Elves of Hogwarts and captures Rita Skeeter, with both those elements absent from the film, there isn't much left for other than the Ball. They've removed the friction between Harry and Ron over Harry's money, presumably because they also removed him giving his Triwizard prize money to George and Fred to start their magic joke shop.

'Prisoner' was full of subtexty goodness and was tied in with Harry's past. 'Goblet' lacks both the subtexts and is concerned with Harry's future. I think that's where the problem lies.
 
  

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