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Concerns regarding the lack of effectiveness of gender reassignment

 
  

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David Batty
14:11 / 10.09.04
As I said check the archive then draw your own conclusions. I've just checked the Guardian style guide and there's no guidance on the coverage of transsexualism or how TS people should be referred to in articles.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:26 / 10.09.04
Yes, I noticed that as well.

On pro and anti-transexuality... it's probably a story for another thread, but I'd be fascinated to see what impact Nadia has had on the approach of the tabs in particular to trans issues ...
 
 
David Batty
12:56 / 13.09.04
Sod all IMO. OK the Mirror's coverage was pretty positive - but that's nothing new. But the Sun and Star calling her the Portugeezer, etc hardly showed signs of a more enlightened attitude. The Star's cartoonist invariably drew her with a penis.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
22:46 / 20.09.04
David,

Re statistics on regret at transitioning, I'd be interested to find more specific data on what, precisely, was regretted in those studies you mentioned. I know transwomen who don't regret making the decision to live as women, but definitely regret being pushed into having surgery. Part of the trouble, I suspect, is that "regret" is such a vague category -- as is "changing sex".
 
 
David Batty
08:49 / 23.09.04
Without having the research to hand you are correct in that regret covers a range of feelings. Predominantly it is regret about genital surgery with a split of people believing they were misdiagnosed and those who feel that surgery was a step too far. The Gender Recognition Act will not require transsexuals to undergo genital surgery to get their birth certificate changed. (This was largely so those unable to have genital surgery for medical reasons were not excluded. Though in theory any TS could opt not to have the op.) Some trans-activists believe this will lead the community to reassess its view of genital surgery as the ultimate goal of gender reassignment. However, this view seems so deeply ingrained in both the community and the medical profession that I wouldn't expect major changes soon.
 
 
Cat Chant
10:05 / 04.10.04
creating a second 'fake' identity

I think it's unlikely (certainly in the short term) but worry about having two identities (as a 'man' and as a 'woman') could also result in (a slow move towards) a situation where gender was not a legal/social determinant of identity, and didn't get listed on passports, Web forms, driving licenses, etc, any more than shoe size does now. And that would be really cool.
 
 
David Batty
11:21 / 25.10.04
I'd be fascinated to see what impact Nadia has had on the approach of the tabs in particular to trans issues ...

I think you got your answer yesterday when the News of the World splashed on Nadia's 'confession' that she worked as a prostitute to pay for her sex change surgery. Bangs goes the positive role model trans activists had built her up to be - though it always seemed naive to expect a reality TV show to provide the community with a heroine.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:31 / 25.10.04
There was the Paddington Green transsexual sometime in the early 90s who won the hearts of the country as she went on the game to fund her SRS...

The NotW article is here (until next week). Faintly censorious but mostly supportive of our Nads in this difficult time.
 
 
David Batty
14:16 / 25.10.04
Faintly supportive, hah! If they really thought this was something from her past that she should be allowed to forget they wouldn't have splashed it all over the front page!

The NoW woul have run the story with or without Nadia's involvement - I doubt she had a real choice. At least agreeing to be interviewed allowed her to do some damage limitation.
 
 
David Batty
14:17 / 25.10.04
Ganesh - the online forums don't appear to have picked it up much yet. But the Big Brother forums have been pretty scathing in their reaction.
 
 
Ganesh
14:46 / 25.10.04
Right now, the Big Brother forums have little to do but be scathing. Having read it, I think the article could've been a lot worse; to me, it just reads like a slightly more dramatic version of the standard 'MY [insert vice here] SHAME' stories. The most ominous bit, though, is the final invitation for kiss-and-tells...

As I say, I'll be more interested in how the trans community responds to her now.
 
 
*
14:50 / 25.10.04
A certain forum, which has been jumping all over Nadia the whole time, is running this really disgusting thread attacking her even more. "I always knew she was just a jumped up little tart" "Nothing wrong with whores but you shouldn't be allowed to cry about it to the papers" etc. It makes me incredibly sad. I don't know anything about her or her situation, but since this particular board is almost all privileged white transwomen who did have mostly unencumbered access to the NHS, they really don't have any right to bitch. IMO.

Sorry for the extremely quick reply; I've got to run. More later perhaps.
 
 
David Batty
15:10 / 25.10.04
Ganesh - given that they secured Nadia's co-operation it wouldn't be that scathing would it. Reaction from the Big brother boards may not be that surprising but I suspect this will undermine some of the good will towards the trans community generated by Nadia's victory.

You talking about Nuttycats?
 
 
Ganesh
15:56 / 25.10.04
Oh, I'm sure some of the goodwill will be undermined, but not all of it, I don't think - and I think the fact that this has come out after people (felt they) became familiarised with Nadia through Big Brother will probably help minimise the backlash.
 
 
*
02:34 / 27.10.04
You talking about Nuttycats?

Well, I suppose if I were trying to afford its members a degree of anonymity, I shouldn't have paraphrased direct quotes. I blame it on extreme haste and bad temper. But yes.
 
 
Lord Morgue
06:27 / 09.11.04
Anyone know if anyone seeking gender reassignment has tried Psychocybernetics? It's a system of self-help based around the person's self-image- I think it might have some application here, as it was created by a plastic surgeon who was wondering why his work helped some people, but some not at all.
 
 
Cat Chant
09:20 / 13.01.05
Just been talking about the Alan Finch case with tangent and we ended up on the difference between elective (cosmetic) surgery and surgery to correct a medical condition. Obviously this isn't an absolute difference, but I think the models - and the authority, or the basis on which the surgery is agreed to/performed - are significantly different. Does anyone know what (if any) studies have been done on 'regret' rates for cosmetic surgery? Are they comparable to the levels discussed in the Guardian article on gender reassignment surgery?

(Thinking about boob jobs as a kind of intra-gender reassignment, if you see what I mean: women having breast enlargements intervenes in their gender identification ["I felt more like a woman"...])

Sorry, very scattered and bitty, have to get back to work.
 
 
HCE
16:32 / 13.01.05
It would also be interesting to see how the person's own perception of their surgery affects this -- one person may consider reassignment surgery to be cosmetic, while another might think of it as a correction, or anywhere in between. I'm sure there's a stats package out there that could handle that. Then there might also be a clash between an individual's perception of their surgery as a medical necessity and a community notion of it as cosmetic.
 
 
*
16:28 / 04.10.05
I feel it can't be emphasized enough right now that trans people— crossdressers, transgender folk, transsexuals, and other people along the transwhatever spectrum— are having their (our) own dialogues about the differences between exuberant gender play and an outlet for gender dysphoria. From the MHB boards, for instance. It would be worth it, I think, for non-trans folk to hear that perspective as well.

Some of the ideas that regularly recur there, without pulling any direct quotes: Crossdressing in public can lead to gender euphoria (a sort of high that comes with transgressing gender boundaries/presenting as one's target gender), and gender euphoria can lead one further down the slippery slope towards medical transition. While I'm not sure I feel comfortable with this rhetoric, I think it indicates that many trans folk are being a lot more critical about their own desires and impulses than literature often gives them (us) credit for being.

I tend to favor a harm-reduction model. That is, if someone is going to self-manage their transition, regardless of what a therapist says, it might be a good idea to supply them with a therapist who can be a contact point for them if they run into any crises and a doctor who can monitor their bloodwork, rather than having medical professionals refuse to work with them because they aren't following the guidelines. (Not that this necessarily happens often.) Partly this is due to my own experience— not to get unduly personal, here, but since I'm now officially out on these boards anyway... In order to get my life together, I had to accept that the only one who could be responsible for my decision to transition or not was me, and that looking for "permission" from an outside authority was really counterproductive. (And my sincere apologies to Ganesh and others for making this discussion a part of that process.) It helped me that I was able to question the utility of transsexualism as a diagnosis, and that I had a therapist willing to question the guidelines and critique the "standard transsexual narrative" with me. I'm pretty sure that if I had been in the UK and following NHS protocols, I'd have had a very hard time getting access to transition, and I probably would have continued to feel that I had no right to make that decision for myself. (I'm basing this on very limited information, obviously.) I'm not sure what the outcome of that would have been; I'm sure it would have caused me considerable distress and concern. But I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't have utterly destroyed me, and maybe the only people who should have access to state-funded care are the ones who would be utterly destroyed by not being able to transition. Now we get to the fact that I'm suspicious of anyone's ability to predict that with sufficient accuracy for my tastes, so I'm suspicious of placing further restrictions on who can have access to medical transition.
 
 
Ganesh
16:32 / 04.10.05
Annnd, while I'm back on this thread...

Does anyone know what (if any) studies have been done on 'regret' rates for cosmetic surgery?

I once submitted a proposal for a study on the psychological make-up of people on the waiting list for cosmetic rhinoplasty, another procedure that generally requires pre-operative psychiatric assessment (on the NHS, anyway). Reading up on the subject, I remembered a satisfaction rate of around 70%, and a quick Google turns up a research abstract citing 72%.

Now, acknowledging that 'regret' is not quite the same thing as 'not satisfied' (and looking at the personality factors identified in that study) but nonetheless cautiously generalising, this would appear to compare unfavourably with the up-to-20%-'regret' rate advanced by the Guardian. Most of those who undergo sex realignment surgery would not class it as cosmetic, though, and the (on the face of it) relatively good rate of non-'regret' might reflect the fact that, accordingly, the decision's more thought-through. Again, without a pool of post-op transpeople available for long-term follow-up, it's hard to be certain.
 
 
*
18:47 / 04.10.05
If you'd like, Ganesh, I will ask the owner-moderators privately if they would mind you registering.

The board is run by Helen and Betty Boyd, and is composed mainly of the audience of Helen's book My Husband Betty, so primarily crossdressers and trans women and their female partners. I am the only FTM on the board that I am aware of. It is US-based, but there are a few UK members. Perhaps because this is one of the few boards with a mix of transitioning and non-transitioning posters where crossdressers and their wives are given a prominent place, the utility of transition is often called into question.

determining where responsibility lies if something goes wrong.

Yes, it seems obvious to me that this would be blurry. For instance, if the trans person deviates from an appropriate dosing schedule against the doctor's recommendation, and consequently suffers liver damage or some other problem, that's one thing. If the trans person calls the clinic with a crisis and suffers harm because the clinic responds inappropriately or not at all, that's another. And it's not always going to be clear which kind of situation has occurred. But confining myself to regret, it seems like the way many people are leaning here in the US is that, so long as the individual is correctly determined to be free of any condition that would impair their legal judgment, the liability for the decision to transition is theirs.

I suspect you'd have been faced with the choice of either shelling out for private therapists/prescribers/surgeons, either UK-based (all of whom, in the wake of the GMC's interest in Reid, would probably still have felt circumscribed by at least some of the guidelines) or abroad, or going through the NHS system and modifying the rate and timing of your transition accordingly.

In the US, of course, I had to shell out for private care, although I'm aware that there are subsidized clinics where I live now which run on the harm reduction model. They generally serve poorer trans folk, when the risk of legal action almost always comes from wealthier types with more money and sense of entitlement I believe.

Well, we're back to the Real Life Test, are we not? Social transition before medical?

Mmm, well, I suppose. I'm just at a loss to define social transition in a way that makes sense to me. For instance, my friends knew about my early feelings of gendernotrightness before I had the least idea what, if anything, I was going to do about them. I attempted to live as a gender neutral person for some time before attempting to live as male (of which my attempt at a gender neutral persona on this board was a part), and the transition between these two stages was very gradual. I never developed a separate male and female persona, so I didn't notice when I was interacting as male, female, or ambiguous. "Going full time" consisted of correcting strangers on their pronoun use whenever it felt safe to do so. I still only ever pass with little old ladies I hold the door for. I was in therapy and a support group for about a year, but RLT? I don't know. If that's considered an adequate social transition, great, but I don't know that it did anything for me except highlight how impossible it was for me to live in a male social role in the world at large without some kind of medical intervention. Or rather, that perhaps I could do so, but it would involve portraying a much more macho persona than felt natural, and would take up so much of my concentration that I would have little energy left for a normal life. It was valuable to learn this, certainly, but if the goal of RLT was to learn if I could really live in a male role, I don't think it achieved that.
 
 
*
05:46 / 05.10.05
It's comparitively rare for FtM guys to pull out in this way, but it happens - and even if they've only been taking testosterone a short time, they can be left with essentially irreversible voice change, clitoral enlargement, or worse.

I know someone to whom this happened— she says she felt pressured to transition because she was seen as too butch to be a dyke. Her queer friends all just assumed she would start testosterone, and so she did, and stopped some time later— almost a year, I believe. I'm not sure if she was transitioning under care, but from what I know of her financial situation at the time, I would assume not. If there was a low-cost public program available to her, no matter how paternalistic, I like to think someone would have told her "Look, you don't need to transition, you don't have any clear idea of why you want to do this" and maybe she would have been a little more critical. But whether she would have taken them seriously would probably depend on whether she believed the program was designed to be an obstacle to transition or not.

Also, 'nesh, thanks for your insights into the NHS; I certainly feel like I understand it better. In the US you don't get your papers changed until after everyone seems satisfied you aren't going to change your mind, as if someone somewhere decided it was better to have to try and reverse a surgery than to reverse paperwork. Come to think of it, I wonder how many people for whom genital surgery is not an absolute psychological necessity feel they have to get it for the safety of having all their documentation match up...
 
 
Ganesh
07:03 / 05.10.05
Changing paperwork is something of a bitty process in the UK. As I've said, there's an insistence on legal name change at the outset of an NHS-monitored Real Life Test. Other documentation follows, except the passport; this needs a doctors' letter to the UK Passport Agency, and this isn't usually provided until someone's seen their psychiatrist a few times and the psychiatrist's reasonably happy things are stable. Last of all is the birth certificate: until recently, it wasn't possible to change these at all; now, they require at least two years living full-time in the chosen gender, a psychiatric signature and approval from the government's Gender Recognition Panel.
 
 
Cat Chant
09:45 / 05.10.05
Most of those who undergo sex realignment surgery would not class it as cosmetic, though

I just wanted to clarify that I don't think that SRS is cosmetic surgery, but that it might be productive to think about it in relation to other surgical procedures which are experienced as gendered. I've noticed that a very common 'happy ending' in popular, non-trans women's narratives around breast enlargement (and reduction) surgery is something like At last I feel like a real woman - that is, there are surgical procedures which are not sex realignment surgery but which bring people's bodies in line with their felt gender identity. A sort of crossing within a gender, rather than 'across' a boundary.
 
 
Ganesh
09:52 / 05.10.05
Right, I see what you mean. Rhinoplasty's probably not the best comparison, then.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:30 / 18.10.05
Got this from Press For Change, it's the text of a piece in this weeks Big Issue...

===================================
Story by Zena Alkayat and Judy Kerr
The Big Issue, w/c 17th Oct 2005
===================================

Transsexual people are being forced to seek care in private hospitals or go abroad for costly surgery due to the raft of obstacles they face in the NHS - from "dogmatic" psychiatrists to disorganised administration - campaigners have claimed.

Activist Persia West has written a scathing account of the inadequate service transsexuals receive when going through the process of a sex change, in a report that focuses particular on the Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) at Charing Cross hospital, responsible for the vast majority of gender reassignment surgery in the UK.

The study, funded by Brighton And Hove NHS Primary Care Trust, and Spectrum, the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender forum, raises serious questions about the treatment at the GIC, which has around 500 patients a year.

Transpeople interviewed by West accused psychiatrists encountered during formal assessment of being "unreasonable, erratic and irrational". Some psychiatrists were said to be "dogmatic and fixed in their views as if one size fits all... and [transpeople] simply have to take what they are given."

Interviewees, who included a conductor, academic, priest, engineer, lawyer, pilot and care assistant, also complained they were "pathologised as mentally-ill" within a system that denied them "choice and respect".
Patients complained that further treatments they considered absolutely essential, such as laser treatment or electrolysis, were labelled merely 'cosmetic' by commissioners, a position they found "grimly amusing". One trans woman claimed: "If they really understood us, they wouldn't treat us like this."

A female Brighton GP who has been working with trans patients for over 10 years, and contributed to the report, wrote: "Not one of my patients with contact with the GIC team there had a single positive thing to say about either the process or consultations. The difference in treatment [on the NHS and abroad] on all levels is stark. Invariably women who went abroad talk of a positive experience where they were treated with respect, kindness, and great professionalism. Contrastingly, those who continued to operation with Charing Cross reported patronising attitudes, insensitivity and no sense of caring."

Echoing many of the trans interviewees, the doctor added: "The NHS seems to be designed to test nerve, resolve and mental strength at every opportunity rather than understanding. There should be easier access to aspects such as hair removal, speech therapy, and there must be psychological support built in, rather than judgement."

Another local doctor canvassed on his transsexual patients wrote: "On the whole there seem to be many areas of discontent. . . Another problem is the strictness of criteria imposed by Charing Cross. This is particularly true on the working in role front, as most transsexuals may well have problems getting jobs in their new chosen gender before surgery, partly due to being self conscious about their bodies. . . there seems to be a constant wall for transsexuals to come up against."

The report further criticised the lengthy and often delayed process that leaves patients uncertain as to whether they will receive treatment or not. In addition, interviewees claim Charing Cross is plagued with a wide range of administrative problems - including paperwork often getting lost and appointments often being cancelled at short notice without reason.

Furthermore, despite the catalogue of alleged problems, the report reveals some patients were unaware of a system for complaint - and felt too scared to complain in case of a negative reaction from psychiatrist consultants.

The author, West, who had her own gender reassignment surgery in Belgium, claimed: "Anyone who can afford it will choose private, or go abroad to Europe or Thailand where they will receive quality care with more understanding."

One of the recurring criticisms levelled by campaigners at the NHS is the over emphasis on the medical side of sex change at the expense of the "extreme emotional challenges" patients undergo.

A trans woman who has first-hand experience of the trauma involved, Sophie, spent 20 years on heroin, was imprisoned on a drugs offence and constantly "ran away from the truth", before deciding to seek surgery.
"I couldn't afford private care so despite the negative stories I heard, I had to go through Charing Cross," she told The Big Issue. "It was the lack of support that was the most challenging. The NHS has no framework set-up, like a counselling service, to support people like me. My family had stopped talking to me and it was so hard to stay off the drugs. I practically starved myself to pay for private counselling that I desperately needed."

A person wishing to make a gender transition is required to live as that sex for a minimum of two years. In Sophie's case this was particularly stressful because she did not yet look or feel feminine but was reluctant to ask the GIC for help, fearing they would delay her surgery because they thought she wasn't coping with life as a woman. "The problem is the reality that no amount of make-up can cover up a hairy face. You can imagine how people stare, they can be very hostile on the street," she recalled.

Claire McNab, the vice-president of Press For Change, a campaign group for transsexual people, told The Big Issue: "The feeling that we must jump through hoops to persuade the psychiatrists we need treatment is ridiculous. There should be a better understanding and a way for people to communicate their problems without fear of treatment being refused."

The leading psychiatrist that transpeople turn to for private surgery, Dr Russell Reid, backed the move for more support. He said: "Depressive, reclusive behaviour is common in transpeople who have trouble receiving treatment in the NHS." Reid has found that five per cent of Britain's estimated 5,000 transpeople suffer from social isolation or chronic depression and nearly two per cent commit suicide.

However, a spokeswoman for Charing Cross GIC defended its service. "We endeavour to provide the best support, care and advice to those wishing to undertake a sex change. We understand that the process clients have to go through before they receive surgery can be frustrating, but it is necessary to ensure this radical treatment is not taken lightly as the process is irreversible."

"A key priority at the moment is the expansion of the clinic and we will be moving to bigger premises in the coming months. This will reduce the time people have to wait to be seen - a problem which has occurred due to an increase in the number of referrals."

"We have also set up a clinical improvement group to look at issues such as waiting times, attitudes of psychiatrists and the quality of information given. In November, we will be meeting a group of clients to discuss these areas and their experiences. We have a complaints procedure and would encourage anyone who is unhappy with the care they have received to contact us to discuss their concerns further."

Campaigners are now hoping that a unique new approach being developed in Brighton, that aims to meet the full range of physical, mental and emotional needs of patients undergoing a sex change, can act as a model for others to follow. The West Sussex Health And Social Care NHS Trust is working with specialists and transpeople on a new service which takes account of the personal trauma they endure.

Sue Morris, the executive director, leading the initiative, said: "We hope to offer a more tailored style of support by working with GPs, social services and the council." The future aim is to remove the need to go to London for treatment by ensuring local specialists can offer a complete 'one-stop-shop style' service.

"Changing the fundamentals of your identity is going to be stressful. We need support, not to be tortured on the way," concludes West.
 
 
Ganesh
20:37 / 18.10.05
Have you read Persia West's report? It's muddled, to say the least...
 
 
*
06:20 / 19.10.05
I find it really bothersome that people feel they can throw around the word "torture" to describe something which looks to me like receiving free but inadequate care from a doctor who might, if one is unlucky, treat one with the curiosity with which some might regard a lab specimen, when I'm likely to be accused of treason by overzealous fellow citizens if I use the same word to describe, oh, prisoners being hooded, beaten, and electrocuted by soldiers from my country.

I am willing to believe, because I have heard it from many people who have claimed to have this experience, that there are doctors in the UK (just as there are elsewhere in the world) whose attitudes toward their trans patients tend towards dehumanizing them, pathologizing them, and playing a role more like that of an obstacle to treatment than a facilitator of it. I believe that certain models of the origin of transgender identification, when held to be absolutes, facilitate this attitude. I believe that this situation makes life more difficult for people who already have a hard time of it. I believe that more communication is needed between people who experience what life as a trans person is like and people who provide care for trans people. I even believe that a harm-reduction model can be appropriate and useful for state-provided trans services, a theory I may have the opportunity to examine more closely in the coming few months. I do not believe that anything approaching torture goes on at the GIC, and I think light use of that term undermines people's efforts to create real change.

Reid has found that five per cent of Britain's estimated 5,000 transpeople suffer from social isolation or chronic depression and nearly two per cent commit suicide.

Five percent? Chronic depression or social isolation is at only five percent? If this figure is accurate it must be a comparative heaven to be trans in Britain; thinking of the trans people I know in the US I think something close to majority of us have experienced social isolation or ongoing depression for at least a year of our lives. In addition, a quick Google search gives an (unverified, uncited) estimate of the annual suicide rate among British as about 5,000, which is pretty high to begin with. Not anywhere near 2% there, of course, but I think you'd find the rates of depression and suicide among trans people as compared to general population are similar or even higher elsewhere in the world. It would be ridiculous to blame these cases on the availability of free but arguably less than sensitive care.

I also think that there needs to be a change of attitude in the trans community about the potential for transition regrets. First of all we need to encourage people who have modified their bodies in ways they now regret to actually tell this story within our communities, rather than driving them to the fringes. I have seen people ostracize "regretters" from trans communities— this is inexcusable. But secondly, there has to be something a lot more concrete than "oh be careful, you might do something you'll regret." That, as a warning to delay steps which can seem, rightly or wrongly, as the only way out of an intolerable situation, is not effective. Regret? What's that mean? I've done a lot of things I regret, and I'm pretty fine with that. What about this kind of regret will make it so unbearable that there will be nothing left for us to do but kill ourselves, terrible failed trannies that we now are? Which specific parts of transition— which is too often thought of as a monolithic whole— are irreversible? Some people find it impossible even to reverse social transition, for instance, while some people get to the point of dramatic changes due to hormones and certain surgical interventions, and then return to their former lives with some but not insurmountable difficulty. And why is there no emphasis on how to deal with that regret, should it occur, or even the thought that it might be possible to deal with it? Might transition regrets not be the end of any hope for a healthy life? And if that's so, what exactly is it that trans people need to be protected from?

In the case of NHS care I think the threat is unnecessarily spending the state's money. Which is more than fair, in my (foreigner's) opinion. NHS, like any hospital or clinic, has a form of triage going on. Maybe the predictors for the possibility of regret need refinement, but that's not something we're going to discover overnight. It's not something we'll discover without listening to one another, either.

I understand that the GPs interviewed about their patients' experiences at Charing Cross are in private practice, yes? Can they be expected to be objective? Aren't the patients they are interviewing already self-selected as a pool of people who either a) didn't try the GIC or b) tried the GIC and then turned to private practice, presumably because the GIC was unsatisfactory in some way?

Still, there is a real problem here. Obviously my own attitudes have changed since my initial responses to this thread, when I took pretty much uncritically the assertion that GIC doctors will not approve access to medical transition if their patients do not fit narrow parameters of femininity or masculinity. I was afraid a similar attitude would hinder my own transition here in the US, which assuredly made me more vehement than I would have been if I were more disinterested in the subject. However, I don't think we would be hearing these complaints in such numbers and with such consistency if there weren't something genuine going on, either on the part of a few doctors, or as a matter of policy which is being misinterpreted by the patients affected by it. Either way, one problem is that some people who need care are not going to get it— either because they actually will be denied care based on their failure to fit the providers' preferred model of transgender identity, or because they will be too afraid of denial to approach the NHS for services they can't afford elsewhere. A second, perhaps even more worrying problem, is that people are going to the GIC with preexisting notions about some rules or formula and just following the formula in order to hasten approval. In the best case scenario this will have the opposite effect, as therapists will easily see through it in most cases, or will see the patient's discomfort in this exaggerated role as a sign that more work is needed before any transition can take place. Or it will actually succeed, possibly leading to someone making a mistake because they haven't been honest with their providers. In the worst case scenario, IMO, it will cause the trans person to be trapped in a loop of trying ever harder to fit the "rules," becoming more and more miserable, thus more thoroughly convincing the therapist that they aren't suited for transition, which may lead them into deeper and deeper depression and social— what's that word? maladaption? And I think this scenario may well be what people are seeing, in many cases.

Alright. I'm starting to feel silly going on about this from the perspective of someone who has never been to seek trans-related serviced in Britain. Everything I just said should be taken with as much salt as is necessary to swallow a completely uninformed opinion based on hearsay, press releases like those above, and comparison of same to my experiences of private care in the US. *kicks soapbox back under the bed* Now please feel free to shred.
 
 
David Batty
14:43 / 20.10.05
Given the journalistic depths to which the Big Issue has now sunk, I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised that they devoted a double-page spread to some sub-literate 'research' that was published months ago. Just disappointed.

Persia West's report is hardly surprising given that Press for Change is gunning for CX GIC as a result of their role in the GMC inquiry (still ongoing).
 
 
David Batty
14:48 / 20.10.05
I wrote a series of features on cosmetic surgery way back in 2000. There were some similarities with SRS. Lack of adequate screening/counselling - a good proportion of those seeking cosmetic surgery would be better of seeing a therapist to explore the reasons behind their dissatisfaction with their body image than going under the knife. But the main problem was the standard of surgery provided & - at that time - the lack of regulation. Some of the women I interviewed had been butchered as a result of what should have been minor surgery.
 
 
*
06:25 / 24.10.05
I was planning to address some of the many problems with the Persia West piece upon which the Big Issue article's based.

I'd be interested, although I'm not sure about anyone else's feelings on the matter.

I'm a little unsure, though, as to what "dehumanising" actually means here: I'm aware, for example, that some (possibly many) feel that having to see a psychiatrist at all is disempowering/stigmatising - possibly because, as you then say, it's seen as pathologising something that is emphatically not viewed in terms of pathology.

I deliberately used the language used by some people to describe their negative experience with psychiatrists, because the experience is so subjective. I can't define what this would mean for everyone, in other words— most particularly because it's never happened to me.

I think it is not always the mere fact of having to see a psychiatrist at all, but the frightening power imbalance which stems from being in a situation which, even under the best of circumstances, it is hard not to perceive as being put to the question by an individual in a position of authority to make decisions about the secret thoughts in your mind, when you yourself have no ability to contradict those judgments to anyone else's satisfaction. And although as you say most of the psychiatrists who work in gender clinics are hopefully beyond this sort of thing, there is still a certain "hysterical tranny" stereotype which can bias people's thinking— even caregivers. Some trans people have asserted that there is in certain literature about the possible origins of transsexuality a pattern of self-reinforcing circular logic which relies on the assumption that any trans person who contradicts the model is, simply, lying or deluded. With examples like this, it can be difficult to believe that a psychiatrist is not going to demand that one fit her own favorite model of transsexuality, and it can be hard to take evaluative questions on face value. The wholly innocent question "What made you choose the clothes you chose to wear today?" appears to take on a sinister cast if one suspects that one's psychiatrist believes that trans people must fit an exaggerated model of masculinity or femininity in order to be "successful" in transition.

Although my own experience of care here in private practice in the US was extremely mild and supportive— so much so that it might seem like transition-track cheerleading compared to others' experiences in the UK— I still had a hard time coming to trust my psychologist. It was several sessions before I was able to be up front with her about why I had a hard time trusting her. It helped me immensely that we were then able to talk about the power dynamics of the professional relationship, that she was able to assure me that she didn't have a pre-existing theoretical agenda to bolster, and that we discussed what criteria I would have to meet to get a recommendation for hormone therapy. (It couldn't have hurt that those criteria were the {to me} very sensible-sounding "If you are capable of making your own decisions— and it seems to me that you are— and we both think hormone therapy is what you need to do.") It sounds like patients in many gender clinics in the UK and the US as well are not getting the opportunity to get through this hurdle with their psychiatrists before the evaluation period begins, and so that period is already tension-filled to begin with. Limited resources here are probably seriously impinging on having a relationship where the trans person can feel comfortable being truly honest with their psychiatrist.

Er. I'm drifting off track again; sorry about that.

I'm not automatically in favor of having gender dysphoria taken out of the DSM. There have been attempts to encode it in a different way, such as this paper among others; perhaps one of those will be sufficiently satisfactory that it will succeed. When I think of pathologisation I think of the differences in the way people with certain disorders can sometimes be treated. I don't think of the mere diagnosis of someone with chronic depression as pathologisation, for example, nor do I think it is pathologising to describe this as a mental health problem in need of treatment. I think assigning responsibility for much of a person's other behavior to their mental health problem, and dealing with them as a mental health condition instead of as a person, is what I am objecting to when I object to behavior which I think pathologises someone. I don't know if I can quite describe what I mean by this fully, but I think "hysterical tranny syndrome" is again a reasonably good example.

I'm glad gender psychiatrists use these diagnoses advisedly, and I'm sure you've got a better handle on the complexities of what it means to diagnose someone with a mental illness than I do. But for some reason this is not clear to some trans patients, and I don't think it can all be written off as the product of a political agenda. I don't think in all cases it's because people object to the RLE requirement altogether. And I think maybe it's the more human obstacles, the doctor-patient relationship, which bear closer examination.

Now that I've spent another hour or so of my life talking about things which I have limited to no experience of, I'll give a quick update of my experiences with harm-reduction so far. I recently went to a low-cost trans clinic here in the Bay Area. It's affiliated with the public health department, and they primarily serve people in seriously compromised economic conditions— homeless people, prostitutes (trans and non-trans), and drug users*. They have a needle exchange program for street drugs, and so the harm reduction model is already in place. My experience is also a little skewed because I was already treated by a therapist in private practice and prescribed hormone therapy. So this is what I was given to understand: People who come to the clinic seeking hormone therapy are first seen by a social worker who takes their information and medical history. This is the phase I'm at, officially. One of the questions asked was how long I'd been living as the gender I currently identify as; no particular weight appeared to be attached to the question or to my answer. The second visit is a medical examination and psychosocial screening to determine the person's ability to consent to hormone therapy and their particular needs. The third visit is with a physician, who may eventually prescribe hormones at their discretion. The social worker I saw said that some of the younger people in the clinic, into which demographic I fall, have a harder time getting hormones prescribed to them, but that it should be no problem for me since I had an existing prescription and could provide my prior blood tests and the name of my therapist and endocrinologist from back home. So those are my experiences so far.


(*While I'm aware that I have a lot of privileges many other people who use this clinic don't have, I'm also temporarily pretty hard up for funds right now and need the medical care. I don't plan to continue relying on the service when my circumstances improve, which might cut my examination of harm reduction in gender therapy short. In fact, I hope very much that this will be the case.)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:25 / 24.10.05
David- Do you have a link for details on this feud between PfC and CX?I'm interested to know as I've been on the PfC mailing list for a while now.
 
 
David Batty
12:24 / 24.10.05
I've plenty on private emails but you should be able to get the measure of this dispute from the online archives at the PFC site. PFC have traditionally been supportive of Russell Reid, so it's hardly surprising that they're so antagonistic to CX. The Big Issue piece almost entirely follows the PFC line, quite uncritically. I'm sure CX has its problems but I've not been provided with any evidence that suggest it's heartless/bigoted & incompetent.

In my experience I've found that many trans patients complaints about the NHS are common in all branches of the NHS. There are the same problems with waiting lists, cancelled appointments, etc in every branch of medicine. Plus, transgender medicine is based in the mental health system, which has historically been a Cinderella service in terms of funding and political priority.

Generally: It's totally unrealistic to expect treatment on demand without any eligibility criteria/assessment from a system (the NHS) with finite resources, especially when medicine is increasingly litigious. If you're going to make a decision as life-changing and (on the whole) irreversible as SRS, you're wise to ensure it's the right one.
 
 
*
03:41 / 28.10.05
I've heard staff in general adult psychiatric services (where trans people are relatively infrequently referred) talk occasionally in these terms, but I've never heard the same stuff coming from gender clinic practitioners. I suppose that, when one's entire caseload consists of transgendered people, it's kinda difficult to think of them as diagnoses rather than people.

That's very heartening, and your point is well made. It does seem a stretch of the imagination to think that psychiatrists seeing a wide variety of transgender people as their main demographic would not either have to begin with or quickly develop a great deal of flexibility in their understanding of trans people as a group and as individuals.

I do think, however, that many trans people, by the time they finally reach the gender clinic, have a tendency to project negative stuff onto individual doctors, to overgeneralise and to overemphasise negative experiences (their own and other trans people's).

I wonder how we might combat this tendency in the trans community. I'm whimsically imagining a series of interviews of gender therapists, written up faux-ethnography style.

I recently learned, however, that the Charing Cross clinic is involved in researching this very thing: various of those attending there have been asked to consent in recording sessions with psychiatrists, supposedly in order to examine how the doctor-patient dynamic (particularly the language of the doctor-patient dynamic) influences the way trans identities are shaped/presented.

This sounds like very interesting research. I certainly hope it uncovers some useful information, and I'll be looking forward to hearing something about its results when they turn up. I hope, too, that the patients with more 'paranoid' outlooks about the clinic don't feel pressured to take part in this under the mistaken belief that refusal will single them out as "noncompliers."
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:29 / 29.10.05
I do think, however, that many trans people, by the time they finally reach the gender clinic, have a tendency to project negative stuff onto individual doctors, to overgeneralise and to overemphasise negative experiences (their own and other trans people's).

Ganesh, I'd be really interested to find out how the research about patient-doctor relationships turns out. But I do not think what you claim above is true, and further, I think that saying it risks repeating the 'hysterical tranny' narrative. Of course, doctors are not evil; and of course, many shrinks see patients as people rather than diagnoses. So, your logic extends, the transpeople who tell stories about their bad experiences in psychiatrists' and doctors' offices must be projecting, overgeneralising, overemphasising the negative.

Why does it have to be either the trans patients' 'fault' or the psychiatrists'? Surely the problem here is a power dynamic that seems purpose-built for the impossibility of trust between two individuals? Given that miscommunication, it's hardly surprising that from a one-hour session, two completely different narratives will emerge? It's really polarised, and that's a problem, but frankly, the polarisation will not -- NOT -- be solves by denigrating or denying that a really high number of transpeople feel that the diagnosis, real life test and surveillance system totally fucks with their heads. What fucks with your head is the insane amount of power someone else has over your life. If it were anything else, this kind of situation would be unimaginable. But it's about gender, and body modification -- to be sure, radical, irreversible body modification -- so 'naturally' one cannot simply make up one's own mind, like an adult.

Also, Nesh, I do know people who have had such weird experiences in gender clinics that it's made them feel suicidal. In two cases, I know of people who have committed suicide not long after they'd been rejected as candidates for surgery. I deeply wish I wasn't one of the former. This is mostly in relation to a specific shrink, whose reputation is appalling. But she's still in practice, and no matter how many complaints are made about her, she isn't asked to step down or retire.

Until transparent, horizontal relationships between 'shrink' and 'patient' are sought in practice, these problems will recur. Transparency is anathema to psychiatry, fullstop.

(The direction the thread has taken makes me feel quite angry and defensive, so much so that I'm finding it quite difficult to write a coherent response. I'm 'regressing' to re-experiencing traumatic moments with the shrink I saw, Dr K. Which, even more infuriatingly, makes me even less articulate and more likely to want to fulminate like a 'hysterical tranny'. So I'll stop now.
 
  

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