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Underground > Comic Books >

Astonishing X-Men #1

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Matthew Fluxington

13:24 / 28.05.04

And those costumes... Ugh! Kitty and Emma actually look great, but the guys look uniformly stupid.

Okay, I just don't get this. The costumes that Cyclops, Beast, and Wolverine are wearing are basically reworked versions of the classic costumes that they wore in the comics for a few decades. Is this a basic "I hate superhero costumes" thing, or do you not recognize the continuity of design?

One other little weird thing: Emma says Xavier is "on sabbatical". Um, he kinda quit, didn't he? This could just be an odd choice of words, only elsewhere other people refer to how Scott is "acting" headmaster.

Context is important - Emma is addressing the students, who don't really need to know why their headmaster is suddenly gone. It's probably not good for morale for the kids to know that his disillusionment with them is the main reason for him abandoning the school.

And yeah, the X-Men probably do expect Charles to eventually return. He probably will.

I DISLIKED: Scott's rationale for being super-heroes.

Well, I don't think Scott needed too much justification for having the X-Men be regular superheroes again. The guy is clearly most comfortable being a superhero, it's been the focus of his life since he was a teenager. It makes perfect sense that once Scott is in charge, he'd decide that they'd all be superheroes again, because that's what he understands, and it's what he is good at. It would be less logical for him NOT to do this.

Also, Flyboy is OTM about Scott and Logan.

Matthew Fluxington

13:32 / 28.05.04

Flowers, I just read yr blog entry, and I can't believe you actually wrote this:

OK, so I've missed the meeting where it's been decided that the X-Men are super heroes. They've always behaved super-heroically, but they weren't a super hero team.

What, did you never see any of the X-Men comics from 1963 up through 2000?

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:37 / 28.05.04

Context is important - Emma is addressing the students, who don't really need to know why their headmaster is suddenly gone. It's probably not good for morale for the kids to know that his disillusionment with them is the main reason for him abandoning the school.

This occurred to me, but then I remembered that the students already know. Xavier announces to the students that he's stepping down as a result of the riot, in the last part of 'Riot At Xavier's'!

Agree about the superhero stuff though. I'd add that people need to remember what Scott says in Morrison's first issue, which is that Xavier always had them dress up as superheroes before for almost exactly the same reasons Scott gives here. So yeah, it is what Scott has been trained to be - in fact this was always being said in NXM: "you're my favourite superhero", "I've never been anything else"...

13:49 / 28.05.04

Flux, it seems that people are just not happy with these specific costume designs. Just cause these designs are based on old classic costumes that are good doesn't mean the new designs are good. It doesn't mean people have to be anti-costumes in general just cause they think these new ones suck (which they do, for the most part).

For my money, there are many subtle differences in the new designs that just make them look silly and stupid. Just cause a costume is based on an old classic design doesn't mean the tweaks that make it different than the old classic design are good. I would much rather have Scott's old classic Byrne/Cockrum uniform or the Quitely outfit than the current one. The piping just looks odd. And Beast's outfit is bizarre, again - I'd rather have him in the Quitely outfit or just naked (or with the requisite Marvel underwear/boxers on).

Wolvie's new costume I can deal with, ditto Emma's (of course) and even Kitty's. Just my two cents.

13:54 / 28.05.04

The other thing that bugged me about this issue is I can't help but thinking of Mister Six's critique of Scott's "this is what you're good at, this is how people see you" speech:

>> I mean, CHRIST, it's like Superman talking to the JLA, saying "I'm a born leader, I can do this. As a team, we all function in different ways which I'll explain to you individually. Batman, you're a symbol of fear, we can use that. Wonder Woman, you're strong and women identify with you. Flash, you're fast, so you can do things... more quickly than the rest of us."

But despite all my criticisms, I did enjoy this issue and really look forward to coming issues. Marvel really scored big with getting Joss on this book, and despite all my critiques, I haven't forgotten that.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

14:05 / 28.05.04

I completely forgot it was Joss, and it didn't really matter.

14:24 / 28.05.04

I'm still holding off for the trades but I flicked through it in FP and liked what I saw.
The art isn't as wildly amazing as everyone's making out... I like my art a bit more dynamic/angular than this, the costume designs especially. It feels like an updated 80's issue which isn't such a great thing to be honest.
"Marvel Age X-men".

Still, gotta love Joss' dialogue.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:35 / 28.05.04

Matthew Fluxington OK, so I've missed the meeting where it's been decided that the X-Men are super heroes. They've always behaved super-heroically, but they weren't a super hero team.
What, did you never see any of the X-Men comics from 1963 up through 2000?

Gee Flux, if you can remind me of the issue where any of thr X-Men get handed their 'official superhero!' certificates by the a Government and I'll retract that. Otherwise, consider the beauty of the phrase 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'.

Flyboy's right about the Danger Room. Briefly in the fourth issue of Grant's run. Damn, forgot that.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

14:51 / 28.05.04

Yes, dammit, I remember seeing all the superheroes getting handed their official superhero certificates!

Matthew Fluxington

14:56 / 28.05.04

Flowers, the X-Men referred to themselves as being superheroes ALL THE TIME during the original Claremont run.

Matthew Fluxington

15:01 / 28.05.04

It feels like an updated 80's issue which isn't such a great thing to be honest.

Yeah, except for that the X-Men wasn't anything like this issue back in the 80s. I've been immersed in Essential X-Men volumes lately, and trust me, there's a LOT of differences.

Flyboy, I think that the kids kinda know what has been going on in the way that we know what's been happening in the world, but our governments still tweak their language when they speak to us - I think Emma is doing the same. She's more of a politician than Scott, you know?

Haus of Mystery

15:28 / 28.05.04

'Okay, I just don't get this. The costumes that Cyclops, Beast, and Wolverine are wearing are basically reworked versions of the classic costumes that they wore in the comics for a few decades. Is this a basic "I hate superhero costumes" thing, or do you not recognize the continuity of design?'

Flux, for me it's not that I hate superhero costumes, rather that I liked Grunt 'n' Frank's slinky updated look. They were hardly dressed in civvy gear after all, i was still costumes. Emma for example had all the pervy elements of classic female X-gear but with a club queen spin. Now she's got flowy-cape bits and I just like it less. But really, it's not a big deal, and I can dig Whedon's desire to give them a timeless look. Now my only real concern is that it's gonna be dogged by the same deadline problems as The Ultimates (etc). Trying to be too enjoy the joy and not be a pessimist though.

Matthew Fluxington

16:29 / 28.05.04

I don't think that lateness will be a huge issue - Whedon has said that meeting deadlines is built into his contract, so he has no choice but to get the books written on time. I imagine that the same stipulation exists in Cassaday's contract. They had a decent lead-time - it seems as though they have at least four issues in the can at this point.

17:31 / 28.05.04

There are already various suggestions online that this book might not stay on a monthly schedule – Fray and Planetary are cited as bad precedents...

Fray actually stayed more or less on schedule for the first six issues or so. Then Joss's TV career intervened, and it was over a year before the final two issues made their way to press. While Joss has insisted that won't happen this time, I'm sure that track record figured heavily into Marvel's decision to put him on a new title rather than having him take over one of their preestablished monthlies. It certainly figures into my own reluctance to try to follow this book monthly.

That said, Fray was a lot of fun, worth a read even if you're not a Buffy fan. I was fairly bummed, upon finishing the trade, to realize that it's unlikely ever to be continued (the opening story did conclude, but left all the elements in place for a long-term ongoing).

17:55 / 28.05.04

'Okay, I just don't get this. The costumes that Cyclops, Beast, and Wolverine are wearing are basically reworked versions of the classic costumes that they wore in the comics for a few decades. Is this a basic "I hate superhero costumes" thing, or do you not recognize the continuity of design?

Neither, actually. If they'd stuck Logan in some version of his brown and tan gear and put Hank in something that didn't look like a giant golden diaper with leggies, I'd have no real problem with it. As I said before, Kitty and Emma look fine to me (though Emma's outfit is on the bland side compared to the previous one), and Scott's uniform won't be difficult to get used to, though certainly I would've preferred one of his 90s-era costumes (ie. with his head uncovered) to this 70s-update they've put him in.

17:58 / 28.05.04

OK, as a costume nay-sayer, let me articulate my take on it, and others can expand or contradict:

It's not out of character for Scott to want to go back to costumes, in fact, it's a nice touch; but it IS out of character for the rest of the team to go for it, especially Logan, who as Flyboy astutely noted doesn't trust Scott as far as he can throw him at the moment. And Kitty hadn't even quite realized that she was being drafted onto the team. Beast, sure; Emma, she'll do what Scott tells her to (mrrow); but Logan especially puts the kibosh on the whole idea.

And then there's the fact that the designs are, in fact, stupid. I recognize the attempt in Scott's costume to hearken back to the good ol' days, and it's appreciated. But Wolverine's is just bothersome, since it's so clearly almost exactly like his old suit (which we now know he hated) and has only been altered enough to produce a new action figure. In the case of Emma, I have *no* idea why they'd be allowing her to run around in a costume that telegraphs "Remember me? I used to be a villain!" to the public -- I can't recall if she was ever a public figure, but it can't be helping them much. (On a side note, remember back in the early 80s, when Rogue joined the team, all the intelligence agencies assumed the X-Men were terrorists because she was on the team and was a terrorist? Why hasn't this happened with Emma?) And Beast's just looks absolutely ridiculous on a design level, and is, in fact, not really physically possible -- what's holding the bits that go above his hips in place?

The Morrison costumes were a great idea because they worked as both action suits and a school uniform; the team looked just as convincing no matter what role they were playing. And now that they've been "outed" to the world, it's kind of ridiculous for them to compartmentalize their lives in this fashion; Wolverine and Scott's masks made sense when everyone on Earth didn't have their poster on their wall, but now they do. What's the point?

I will reiterate, however, that this is pretty much the only issue I'm having with Whedon's take on the book so far, and I'm really looking forward to the next issue.

18:11 / 28.05.04

My big opinion on the costumes: I think the characters would look much, MUCH better in the Quitely costumes GIVEN the way Cassaday draws them. The realistic style would make the leathers look badass, in the same way that I feel it actively detracts from the spandex. Cassaday's art is just too realistic and it makes the body-condoms look as dopey as they would on TV or in a film.

That said, I don't mind the idea of the recostuming too much. (I mean, I don't agree with it, but I won't lose sleep over it.) Alan Davis is probably carrying it off very nicely over on Uncanny. It's just too bad that it has to happen on this book too.

All in all, I'm happy to be waiting for the trade on this one. Then I'll be able to tell how Astonished I am....

Oh! And...

remember back in the early 80s, when Rogue joined the team, all the intelligence agencies assumed the X-Men were terrorists because she was on the team and was a terrorist? Why hasn't this happened with Emma?

Well, Rogue used to be a part of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants who went around doing public terrorist activities like attacking Congress, trying to murder senators, fighting the Avengers, etc. Emma, OTOH, used to be part of an ostensibly-respectable club for the uber-rich. The more dubious activities of the Hellfire Club were largely not recorded on film. And it's reasonable to assume that they had a certain amount of clout in law enforcement circles (hell, we *know* they successfully infiltrated S.H.I.E.L.D. at one point -- but then, who hasn't?) which they probably used to keep their record sheets clean.

That said, yeah: Emma's new costume still sucks.

18:52 / 28.05.04

And it's not entirely appropriate apparel for a school full of teenage boys, either.

Matthew Fluxington

18:57 / 28.05.04

I will reiterate, however, that this is pretty much the only issue I'm having with Whedon's take on the book so far, and I'm really looking forward to the next issue.

Well is it Whedon's take, or Cassadays? I don't think Joss had very much to do with the design of the new costumes.

With the exception of the cape, I don't get how Emma's outfit in Astonishing is tremendously different from what she wore in NXM, other than that the new costume seems a lot more restrained and comfortable. She's the one whose look has changed the least!

19:10 / 28.05.04

Well is it Whedon's take, or Cassadays? I don't think Joss had very much to do with the design of the new costumes.

He wrote 'em into the script, making clear that they were to be superhero costumes. He didn't give Beast hip-huggers, no, that was Cassaday, but costumes are very obviously a Whedon call.

It's not a coincidence that I really didn't like Emma's NXM costume either. But I do take special exception to the cape -- the most impractical of all superhero garments. You can't fight while wearing a cape. Go try it. You'll break something. It almost works for Emma because as a character, she'll choose fashion over practicality anytime; but would Scott let her? It's a small team; he can't have somebody snagging their heels in the middle of a fight.

I very much agree with -- was it Houdini? -- whoever said that the NXM costumes would've looked super-duper hot under Cassaday's pencil, and that the uber-realistic take makes the current suits look bizarre. It's almost compelling, but once my ideological opposition comes into play, that small advantage goes away.

I'm willing to mitigate this criticism if the practicality, function, and effects of the costumes are an ongoing concern in the book, and not just a first-issue gag, but we don't know that yet.

Matthew Fluxington

19:21 / 28.05.04

but costumes are very obviously a Whedon call.

Well, this isn't true. The return to costumes was a corporate mandate, and virtually everyone involved has said so in interviews. Whedon and Cassaday went along with it, in part because maybe they thought that it was a good time to go back to costumes, but primarily because they didn't really have a choice.

19:28 / 28.05.04

...costumes are very obviously a Whedon call.

Actually I read an interview with Whedon where he said the costumes were an edict from Marvel (his exact words, IIRC). I got the (admittedly vague) impression he would've preferred to keep the leathers, but was sufficiently excited to be writing X-Men at all that he wasn't complaining about it.

19:30 / 28.05.04

...which is to say, what Flux said. Great minds type together, but some type faster than others.

Matthew Fluxington

19:31 / 28.05.04

I think that it is pretty clear that Whedon made a point of addressing the new costumes in his first issue so that it made sense that why ere suddenly wearing these costumes again. There's not much more to it than that. Marvel wanted costumes; Whedon explained it away as best as he could.

19:42 / 28.05.04

My face is red. I stand corrected.

(Still sucks though.)

Matthew Fluxington

19:49 / 28.05.04

In a way, I am glad that the costumes are back if just so that no one will be able to delude themselves into thinking that the X-Men is not a superhero comic, as some people here did throughout Grant's run.

20:01 / 28.05.04

In a way, I am glad that the costumes are back if just so that no one will be able to delude themselves into thinking that the X-Men is not a superhero comic, as some people here did throughout Grant's run.

The X-Men is a superhero comic, yes, but I think what people react to in Grant's run, and are reacting against in the current stuff, is the idea that it could, potentially, be more interesting if you don't write it that way.

And yeah, I'm aware that a lot of what Morrison did was just straight-up superheroics with one kind of twist or another that tried to convince you otherwise. But he also brought in a lot of ideas, both surface-level and structural, from outside the traditional superhero framework, and people are understandably sad to see that kind of cross-pollination go. It can be a good, or even great, superhero book, sure, but it could also be an even better book that's not as chained to the superhero mentality.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:02 / 28.05.04

In fact, Emma's wearing a lot more! Gosh, she's got TROUSERS!

Matthew Fluxington

20:07 / 28.05.04

I'm not clear on what in this issue, aside from them all wearing spandex at the end, is so dramatically different from what the characters were doing under Morrison. Except for the clothing, how is this a departure?

1) They still run a school for mutants, and are teachers first, superheroes second.

2) They are actually going on rescue missions, which is something Grant stopped doing after his third issue.

3) They are still concerned with their public image, which was very much a concern in the first two years of New X-Men.

What's missing, aside from the typical Morrison metaphysical/pseudoscience mumbo jumbo?

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:12 / 28.05.04

People sad to see that stuff go = Surely Grant luvvies, nay? A superhero book can still be a good book. Please let's not pretend this isn't one, because that's what it's always been. It doesn't mean you can't tell an interesting story with good ideas...

Superheroes oversaturating the comic book market is problematic, and I can understand any issues with that, but wanting all non-superhero stuff in superhero comics just seems a bit silly. This is the X-Men! Grant really didn't do much that suggested it was anything other than this.

The guy writing this comic wrote BUFFY. Superheroes, non? Essentially... I don't think people are going to go changing genres to please a small amount of people, and you're really looking in the wrong place if you expect them to. Let them play around with the conventions of superheroes in superhero comics, it really seems fair enough.

20:27 / 28.05.04

1) They still run a school for mutants, and are teachers first, superheroes second.

I'd say it's too early to say this, and the reason for my pessimism about this angle centers around how the issue spends most of its time justifying the decision to actively become "superheroes" again, which implies that the title's going to need to spend most of its time fleshing out, exploring, and working with this dynamic -- not to mention that Whedon's only signed on for a year, and I suspect he's going to be interested more in a big action epic, as opposed to spending four issues on mutant teaching techniques. (Which, I will admit, Grant never really did -- but he was the first writer to write the series so that that looked like it would actually be an interesting road to walk down. And no, "Let's throw them in the Danger Room and see what sticks," the Claremont idea of "mutant teaching techniques," does not qualify.)

It's infuriating to a lot of people, but a lot of the greatness of the Morrison run really was less what ended up on the page -- and yes, I agree that what's on the page in AXM #1 largely compliments Morrison's run very well -- and more what was floating around it, i.e. the exciting speculation it invited about how a school for mutants actually would work, the specifics of human-mutant interaction, etc. It's about the framework he built for the series, and what it emphasized and de-emphasized, more than it was about the actual plot. Based on this issue (which I concede is premature, and which, again, I really did like), it just looks like Whedon's framework won't have quite as much room for the things that a lot of people found interesting in Morrison's run. And that includes elements of the "scientific mumbo-jumbo," which I don't think is "outside" of the X-Men concept to the degree that you're figuring it, as well as the stuff I've outlined above.

Again, Joss Whedon's X-Men looks like it's gonna be a really good straight superhero book, but I don't think it's stupid to think and hope that it would have been great as something else entirely.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:33 / 28.05.04

I'm still not seeing where you would ever have gotten the idea it would be anything else...

Comics as a whole would have to be a very different beast for that to occur. Indeed, when most of the alternative and popular "genre defying" comics concern themselves with looking at superheroes from increasingly different angles, adventure, sci-fi or commentary on comics itself, it's not a possbility I can imagine.

Matthew Fluxington

20:37 / 28.05.04

I don't think it's Whedon's fault that the editors and the rest of the writers are throwing away all of these opportunities that Grant has set up for them. If anything, Whedon is the one guy running with Grant's ideas, so why complain about him?

It would make a lot more sense to be annoyed with New X-Men: Academy X, which is the school-based book that is pissing away everything great about the Xavier student body as written by Morrison. I cannot fathom why the editors thought that it would be a better idea to continue on with the bland, generic characters from the new New Mutants (a series with middling sales and no discernable fanbase) rather than to spin off the well-loved, nuanced supporting cast from the number one book in the franchise for the past three years. It blows my mind that characters as thin as the ones in the new New X-Men are wasting paper while characters with as much potential as Beak, Angel, the Three-In-One, Ernst, and Martha are trapped in character limbo.

For fuck's sake, a "special class" comic practically writes itself! It could be such a great coming-of-age warped mutant teen soap opera! It would have a built-in conflict, with one of the characters actually being Cassandra Nova. There's so much which could be done with Martha alone!

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:38 / 28.05.04

Write it!

Matthew Fluxington

20:43 / 28.05.04

That said, I think that it is only fair that the writers go in the directions that they want to. Grant Morrison was given a massive amount of leeway, and was allowed to do lots of radical things with the series. Why should everyone be beholden to his stories when he wasn't a slave to anyone else's design?

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