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Astonishing X-Men

 
  

Page: 123(4)5678

 
 
_Boboss
14:23 / 01.03.04
seems silly to me to dismiss a character's given history just because you want to write about something other than what that character has become. that's what new characters are for, and i'm surprised a writer trying to do his bit to the x-mythos doesn't want to drop a new character in anyway. tho perhaps he will. i freely admit there's an awful lot of rubbish coming from me based upon a single page of words.

and with specific regard to kitty pryde - she's been kind of scrappy from day one, the two facets of her character are not mutually exclusive - the whole point of her is that she's a little ballet dancer girl from chicago who has joined a team of shitkicking superheroes. or 'mutant emergency rescue workers' as i'd prefer they were called (bit of a mouthful tho). she's not some girl with a pet - she's a girl with a pet DRAGON
 
 
FinderWolf
17:40 / 01.03.04
Very true, she can be mature and scrappy. (I don't mean that sarcastically, that's a good point.)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
18:27 / 01.03.04
" I don't think one X-Man has been written " out of character " in the excerpt. "

Well, try this is I suppose, at pretty much any point you like.

LOGAN - " Slim, don't be fucking stupid. I'm NOT fucking wearing a costume, bub. "

Or words to that effect anyway.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
18:28 / 01.03.04
.... UGH. The whole script sample reads like what it is, in my opinion, a writer thinking out loud.

I mean, CHRIST, it's like Superman talking to the JLA, saying "I'm a born leader, I can do this. As a team, we all function in different ways which I'll explain to you individually. Batman, you're a symbol of fear, we can use that. Wonder Woman, you're strong and women identify with you. Flash, you're fast, so you can do things... more quickly than the rest of us."

...right, Joss, why not keep this shit on your note book and actually have the characters talk rather than do exposition to the reader. Yikes. How much money does he get for this? Anyone on this board could do better.
 
 
Spaniel
18:47 / 01.03.04
she's a girl with a pet DRAGON

And bring back that fucking dragon, I say.

Not sure what's going on with Tom's post. The return to spandex and superantics seems like a 'new' editorial direction rather than the will of Jossy. Suppose he has some input, but...
 
 
FinderWolf
05:40 / 02.03.04
Actually, though, all criticism of a 2-page script preview aside, the fact they got Joss Whedon to do this is nothing short of amazing, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what Joss does with this. (and Cassaday as well)

Joe Quesada said in a recent interview at Newsarama that he felt it was time for the return of colorful costumes (cycles and all that) and he said when he brought it up to Joss, Joss felt the same way.

from this week's Lying in the Gutters by Rich Johnston:

>> HEY KIDS! COMICS!

Remember last week when I spoke about Marvel's attempt to make their Marvel Universe line very kid-friendly again?

I understand this policy is driven by Gui Kayro and Dan Buckley, and was part of their publishing plan to Ike Perlmutter, to make the Marvel Universe as kid-friendly as possible, and commercially viable and safe for licenses as they can. The only sop they've given editorial, some of whom are as displeased about this as some of the creators, is the Marvel Knights and MAX lines. Hence the moving of several key, yet challenging, creative titles ("Hulk," "X-Statix," Millar's "Spider-Man" and more) to those lines. And this week that policy exhibited itself in a number of ways.

The firing of Igor Kordey for a style that is considered no longer acceptable for the launch of Excalibur, and the redrawing of the first issues. Igor Kordey talked about this decision with me in this week's Waiting For Tommy. His attitude to the return of superhero costumes probably didn't help.

The decision to release specific Joss Whedon dialogue from "Astonishing X-Men," designed to portray the future of the Marvel line, a return to costumes and more black and white (in gaudy colours) superheroics.

The leak that Bob Morales will no longer be writing "Captain America."

Look for the culmination of this policy at Marvel over the summer with what is only being called "The Bendis Event" in my earshot

------
 
 
_Boboss
07:51 / 02.03.04
am i a terrible cunt for assuming that the bendis event will have lots and lots of small talk and not a great deal else?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:37 / 02.03.04
Conversation: The 40 issue crossover event!
 
 
_Boboss
13:47 / 02.03.04
do you know something we don't flux?

can bendis manage to squeeze a single act of consequence or interest into 40 issues? he'll be surpassing himself if he does. or will it be cap chatting to bucky's ghost on the phone about 'what america means today' for 40x22 pages? (i love that bendis bit - trying to work out what the guy on the other end of the phone must be saying shows you just how bollox his 'realistic' dialogue is). a one-man 40 ish crossover event would be along the same lines as dc onemilliion i spose.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:59 / 02.03.04
So anyway, about Joss Whedon & John Cassaday's X-MEN...
 
 
_Boboss
15:24 / 02.03.04
yeh sorry bout that gang. boring day.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:57 / 02.03.04
Dunno if this has has been covered but is that art from the start of this mammoth topic actually by Cassady? If so it's shocking. Plus why are they hiring a guy who CANNOT get work out on time. See 'Ultimates', See Quitely's 'X-Men', See anything by Simon Bisley. Not in a monthly comic please!
 
 
grant
19:38 / 02.03.04


Look familiar?

And moreso here.
 
 
eeoam
23:21 / 03.03.04

I mean, CHRIST, it's like Superman talking to the JLA, saying "I'm a born leader, I can do this. As a team, we all function in different ways which I'll explain to you individually. Batman, you're a symbol of fear, we can use that. Wonder Woman, you're strong and women identify with you. Flash, you're fast, so you can do things... more quickly than the rest of us."


Mister Six, you are a gem.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:28 / 05.03.04
I agree with eeoam. Mister Six nailed it.

Why exactly did Grant post Steve Rude (and Adam Hughes) NEXUS covers? I'm not clear on this. Are you saying Cassaday's art looks like or is aping Rude's art? If so, I don't see that here. I'm confused...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:54 / 05.03.04
Perhaps Cyclops will have a secondary mutation that makes him look like a giant prick? No wait, that happened thirty years ago... in defense of the uniform I'll just say that Cyclops' X-uniforms have always tended to be modified versions of the basic X-men uniform that the team were kitted out with right back in the very first issue ever. His mutant angst powers destroyed his imagination.

And consider Kitty Pryde. Do you not think that her existence might have been waved in Whedon's face by the unimaginative marketing bastards that now run Marvel because they hope that he'd write her like Buffy joins the X-Men? If memory serves she comes from a well-off LA home... much like Buffy.
 
 
houdini
20:01 / 05.03.04

Kitty comes from Chicago.

And I think Grant thinks that Cassady's Cyclops costume looks a lot like Rude's Nexus costume. But I may be wrong about that one.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:29 / 05.03.04
Also, now we can play Celebrity Barbelith Mole - Ethan Van Sciver, did you really know Joss & John were confirmedway back when the speculation was rampant? (I ask since you said, "Oh, that post I did on Millarworld was just a silly rumor, it's not true" - did you discover it, post it, and then been asked by Marvel to keep it on the hush-hush? Just curious. I don't mean this in any kind of accusatory way, just curious what your side of that whole thing was.)
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:32 / 05.03.04
Don't be so cynical about the inclusion of Kitty - given that the two main characters of Buffy were essentially variations on Kitty, and that Whedon was a big fan of the X-Men as a kid while Kitty was a key member of the group, I get the feeling that he's wanted to write her for years now.
 
 
The Falcon
11:33 / 06.03.04
Incidentally has no-one noticed that Wolverine has been wearing 'lemon-yellow' for the last 3 issues of New...?

And he had a negative of that costume on during 'Assault...'?

What a silly fuss.
 
 
makeitbleed
17:18 / 07.03.04
This is just my opinion. I hate that dialogue. It's contrived and unrealistic. I think I'd have trouble reading the story without hearing Whedon working hard on attempts at the snappy patter. It seens to dominate the whole scene. Wolverine's a thug? "Born and bred!" A thug? What is he 14 years old? Why would Wolverine give a shit? Or wear a costume if he didn't want to?

I have this sense I can now predict the entire run's dialogue.

Kitty: Attempt at wry observation
Emma: Catty response
Cyclops: Attempt to re-focus on the topic at hand, but spending more time on his witty remark
Wolverine: I'm subversive!
Beast: I'm focused on something extraneous or humourous in an attempt to pull things together.

Repeat as necessary ...

Yuk.

I feel really disappointed. I've only seen a few episodes of Buffy, but so many people I know (who seem to have good or at least similar taste) love it.

Can anyone out there who is fan of Buffy tell me if this stilted stuff is indicative of the average Whedon work?

Maybe I'll get the trade, but this looks like it's going to make it easy for me to make a clean X-break after 3/17.
 
 
houdini
13:35 / 08.03.04
Can anyone out there who is fan of Buffy tell me if this stilted stuff is indicative of the average Whedon work?

Well ... since I don't have the problems you do with the script excerpt ... probably "no".

Buffy is a very cheesy, formulaic show. And within that context, Whedon makes it really shine. It's a textbook example of TV show plotting, to the point where I can't get a copy of Season III out of the Cornell Library because it's on hold for use in a writing class.

Mileages vary. But. I think you may be over-reacting to the script excerpt, particularly given that it's two pages. I'm not sure you or I or anyone can meaningfully extrapolate what the other 130 pages of the Whedon-Cassaday run are going to look like.

My suggestion: Wait till it comes out. Pick it up. Read from page 1 on. See what you think. Either take it to the cash register or put it back on the shelf.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:21 / 08.03.04
I'm a huge Joss fan, I love Buffy and Angel. BUT, I can tell you that even I as a huge Joss fan feel that Joss isn't always at the top of his game. He can write incredibly well and really surprise viewers with his plot twists and depth of characterization.

Here's my take on Joss:

60% of the time he's a genius
20% of the time he's just very good
20% of the time he's not so hot

And this script excerpt seems to fall in the "not so hot" range for me, and I love Joss. I would say that Joss can do far better than this obvious, forced little sample we've seen.

So I'm going to just hope that this sample is not indicative of his quality on the run as whole. Most likely, the run will follow something like the quality-meter I've listed above. There will some true Greatness, some Pretty Goodness, and some cheesiness/over-writing.
 
 
diz
18:22 / 08.03.04
Don't be so cynical about the inclusion of Kitty - given that the two main characters of Buffy were essentially variations on Kitty, and that Whedon was a big fan of the X-Men as a kid while Kitty was a key member of the group, I get the feeling that he's wanted to write her for years now.

in his intro to the Fray trade paperback he spills a lot of ink about how Kitty Pryde changed his life as a young comics fan or some such.
 
 
spake
19:38 / 08.03.04
nice one Whedon, kick us while we're down. Its bad enough that we have to deal with GM leaving 'NEW', but now we have to look at the loss of Quitely's awesome rendering of cyclops and wolverine. In the 20 years of wolverine fandom that i've suffered from, nothing showed Logan in his true colours better than his bare-chested look. it showed wolverine as his true egotistical, macho self.

as for kitty pryde? what kind of name is that??? she should have shot herself when Colossus died.
 
 
Mike-O
20:26 / 08.03.04
//nice one Whedon, kick us while we're down.//

Man, some ppl just like to bitch, eh? Cause I'm sure it was Whedon and Whedon alone that resulted in the return of costumes... and you haven't even read an issue yet, so why not reserve judgement and get off the guy's back? I'm sure I've just asked to be flamed but whatever... all the shit-disturbing over Whedon's forthcoming run by some ppl just pisses me right off... fuckin' wait for the issue, then start your screaming.
 
 
spake
22:16 / 08.03.04
Okay, maybe my initial comment was a bit over the top and slightly harsh. I'll admit that i'm mildly pissed because the Morrison run is about to end, and i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations here.

However, i will always remain cyncial with regards to anyone who makes the transition from writing for film/tv to writing comics, the only exception being Kevin Smith's run with the recent Green Arrow series.

I'll just have to wait and see then,...
 
 
The Falcon
22:18 / 08.03.04
Did you like that? In retrospect, I don't very much.
 
 
spake
23:26 / 08.03.04
Green arrow?
Yeah, surprisingly i did like it. Keep in mind that i had set my expectations incredibly low though. What i got was a good combination of exceptional artwork, with a clear statement of the understanding of the characters and their all to human flaws. It was nice to some classic villains re-loaded as well. anyway, shame it had to end.
 
 
Mike-O
01:34 / 09.03.04
Shiva: I get u there. Hard to imagine anyone having the impact that Morrison did for me with his vision of the X-Men. Even for Whedon, I'm sceptical... I mean it could very well be one of the most amazing, critically acclaimed runs of all time, but Morrison won my heart and that ain't an easy thing to replace.

As far as writers from other mediums: I think JMS's Amazing Spider-man started out much better than it has become, however his Supreme Power is stunning. K. Smith... well, I thought his DD run got a little more hype than it deserved, but than again DD comics hadn't been even THAT good in quite some time. I never got around to Green Arrow, but I'll take your word on it. As far as others, I hear David Goyer was successful with his take on JSA...
 
 
"See me for what I am, OK?"
19:53 / 09.03.04
Ah...

I have no problems with the 'Astonishing...' costumes, or with the stated reason for going back to them. It does actually kinda fit in with Morrison's run (for those of you who disagree, check out "Germ-free Generation" and the last part of "Planet X".

The fact is that the X-books ARE superhero comics, and that the main problem with them in the past hasn't been that they have been written as spandex-y superhero books, but that they've been written as really, really BAD spandex-y superhero books.

Morrison came in, took away the spandex and it worked. But it can work with full-body condom costumes as well. Probably.

Earlier in this thread, someone said that they liked the use of this style of costume in 'X-Statix' because it fit with the poppy, campy style that Milligan and the Allreds have going. I agree whole-heartedly, and I think that there's a good chance that the esteemed Mr. Whedon will go for such a style as well. After all, 'Buffy' is pure camp pop culture madness, and 'Angel' isn't far off.

My point, I think, is that we should wait and see what Whedon will do. As it goes, I'm fairly enthusiastic. I think he WAS off his game for a while. 'Firefly' was fairly abysmal, and season seven of 'Buffy' failed miserably (although I think season six was excellent - if anyone wants to argue, my email address is graemelyon@yahoo.co.uk), and I think that Whedon may have reevaluated in the wake of the cancellation of 'Firefly'.

Angel season five has been easily the best thing to come out of Mutant Enemy yet, and the two recent Joss or part-Joss episodes ("Smile Time" and "A Hole In The World") have been utterly intoxicatingly superb - at least on a par with the best of 'Buffy'.

But back to 'Astonishing'. I think the dialogue we've seen thus far is actually rather good, and I'd like to address a couple of complaints about it from earlier in this thread:

1) Mister Six complained about all the exposition in the dialogue. The way I see it, this is the first issue not only of Whedon's run, but of a "new" X-book. Considering this (not to mention the fact that Whedon's name is very likely to bring in at least a few new readers with NO previous connection to the X-comic canon), I would posit that some expositionary dialogue is a good thing, especially since it will no doubt highlight the sides of the characters that Whedon is going to concentrate on. Morrison did much the same thing in "E for Extinction".

2) I also have issue with makeitbleed's bitching about the "born and bred" line. This is, to my mind, EXACTLY how Wolverine would respond to being called a thug, especially in the wake of Morrison's run. In 'New X' Logan was quiet and thoughtful. Of all Morrison's characters, he was the most mature and at peace, except for that one niggling thing. Then came 'Weapon Plus' and 'Planet X', when he had to come to terms with the fact that he is nothing more that a killer. And he did. So having him embrace that in this one line really really works for me.

And I'm rather sure that last paragraph makes NO sense outside my head.

So I am seriously looking forward to this, I think at least as much as I looked forward to each new Morrison issue. Whedon on form is better than sliced bread, and Cassady's art is nice. It might not be astonishing, but at the very least, it should be 'Interesting X-Men'.
 
 
houdini
12:44 / 10.03.04
And I'm rather sure that last paragraph makes NO sense outside my head.

Au contraire, Fred.

Makes sense to me.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
11:25 / 11.03.04
I'm warming to the concept...
It was very much an X-editor idea to bring back the costumes but Whedon wanted it aswell. They all tought it was "time" (whatever that may mean) and I don't disagree.
If Scott and Emma are taking over the school its hardly suprising that they'd re-introduce costumes. Emma is the dress up queen (sorry, Ice-queen), she's never really been out of costume, even when she's naked. Scott is the archetypal superhero. He wants to be the Captain America of mutants so much its distasteful. Morrison's run had him full of doubt and questions, Whedon may bring back his confidence and Emma will certainly encourage him to be more gung-ho.
It makes sense... mores the pity.

But I'm still only plumping for the delux hard cover version.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:32 / 11.03.04
TBH, I really, really don't want the condomstumes back, but, hey ho, I dig on Joss.
 
 
T'Pau
17:15 / 11.03.04
Whedon is a great writer, no doubt. I don't understand the position most of you are taking on the costumes thing - colorful costumes are what make super heroes so visually tantalizing and larger than life. Everyone knows these would look like shit on real people, but in the 2 -D world they kick ass.
If this comic is a " Back to basics pre over - commercialization" X-men stroy that I remember from the early 80's, than it is more than welcome!! What say you?
 
  

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