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Designing A Japanese Tattoo

 
  

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Logos
12:18 / 18.02.04
You know, I once tried on the Condensed Milk dress, but it was too tight. I went with the Whole Milk evening gown.

On t'other hand, English is sadly lacking in ideograms, so if you need to borrow one from time to time, and it's graphically interesting enough to wear on your skin 'til you're 80, then why not?
 
 
pomegranate
16:09 / 18.02.04
steve-o's tattoo is so meta that it hurts my head. i think asian character tattoos are tacky just cos they're so abundant. see also: tribal armbands, celtic tats, yin-yangs, and stars. just...no. if you got one early on and then everyone copied you, well, sucks to be you, but by now we know how popular these are and you can know enough to avoid them.
 
 
ibis the being
17:05 / 18.02.04
yeah pm, but after the 50 or so years asian character tattoos spend being lame, they'll become retro-cool again in a funky old man/woman way. see: anchors and mermaids.
 
 
Baz Auckland
17:25 / 18.02.04
Lilith Myth posted this link to an alphabet site in the Arabic thread... it has loads of really cool alphabets! Forget Japanese! Go get something tatooed in Ethiopian!

 
 
Char Aina
17:35 / 18.02.04
they'll become retro-cool again in a funky old man/woman way. see: anchors and mermaids.

i dunno, thats not a very cool way to be cool...
 
 
ibis the being
17:44 / 18.02.04
(was being facetious)
 
 
Char Aina
18:21 / 18.02.04
(oh, okay. i have a buddy who has recently become a tattooist and actually digs all that old and shit shit. i am bemused by this.)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:20 / 18.02.04
I would totally get an anchor done. Or a heart, or something. I mean, not soon or anything, coz I want some other stuff done first. But yeah, anchors are cool. And at least you're not rocking on someone else's cultural dime. Execpt possibly Popeye's.
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
02:16 / 19.02.04
The old shit is pretty cool when you start to look into the meanings behind the tattoos. An anchor tattoo originally indicated that a sailor had crossed the Atlantic, a dragon that he had crossed the international dateline. A swallow on the base of the thumb would mean that the owner had sailed a certain number of nautical miles. Specific swallow designs were also apparently used by gay sailors as signs to each other. Mermaid tattoos were supposed to ward against drowning and crucifixes (on the back) were meant to prevent floggings from being too severe (I've heard that slaves in the southern US also used this one). The cobweb on the elbow tattoo is a prison design that shows how long the owners sentence is.

So the next time you see a punk-rock hipster with a cobweb on his arm and a swallow on his hand you'll know that he's a gay sailor who has done some serious time and spent a lot of time at sea.
 
 
ibis the being
12:34 / 19.02.04
That's really cool to know RC. My Pops (grandfather) has an anchor tattoo, I figured from being in the Navy, but I didn't know the part about crossing the Atlantic. Makes sense, he fought at DDay.
 
 
Char Aina
19:36 / 19.02.04
but france is across the english channel! its america thats across the atlantic.


so by the same sorta rules we all seem to have for japanese tatoos, would we expect all them hipsters to be adhering to the rules of the game? i have been across the atlantic, but never by boat. does that count? what do you get tattooed if you have your 'helmsman' badge from scouts?
 
 
Saint Keggers
20:00 / 19.02.04
what do you get tattooed if you have your 'helmsman' badge from scouts?

I dont know but im sure all the other 12 year olds will look at you with newfound awe and respect....the cellmates may have a different idea however.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:23 / 19.02.04
Actually, I support Mike-O and folks like him, because getting a tattoo of this nature would make him immediately identifiable as a turbodouche supreme, which can be helpful for the rest of us.

I went to school with dozens of white kids with asian-character tattoos that they didn't understand on their bodies. It's a total cliche.
 
 
The Puck
21:36 / 19.02.04
Can sombody please explain "cultural tourism" im not entirly sure what that entails, i mean i occasional eat chinese food does this make me a cultural tourist, if it offends anyone i would like to know, what about my jewelry i wear and Ankh as a necklace surely this makes me a culteral tourist of the highest order. At which point do i stop being a culteral resident. What about sub cultures? can i be a goth that occasionally wears a smile? a skater that somtimes rides a horse.

i serouisly live in fear of causing the scorn thats been showered in this thread, please dont tell me off using big words i might explode with shame.

just explain so i will never offend everybody so much
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:51 / 19.02.04
Well, don't you think that appropriating part of someone else's culture for superficial reasons without fully understanding it is more than a little shallow and condescending? Haus nailed it in the third post: "Oh, your letters are pretty. I won't bother to learn them, but I'll take them, thank you."

I don't think any of us would take the position that cultures shouldn't mix; it's not like that at all. It's just that a lot of us find that treating other cultures like something to be used as adornment and fashion accessory and not actually engaging with them is a particularly icky form of American/Western cultural exchange.
 
 
The Puck
22:06 / 19.02.04
he must be enaging with the culture some-what he was prepared to get the thing etched onto his skin for christ sake, the thing is everyone jumped onto the poor guy (when all he was really guilty of is poor taste), is anyone that doesnt speak japanese allowed to get that tattoo? if so how much research do you have to do before you are allowed? does posting on a web site count at least a little? what about celtic band patterns would a non celtic person be allowed to get one?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:27 / 19.02.04
Weel, wearing an ankh makes you a big goth, and it's probably your choice whether you want to go for that. In the sense of the ankh as symbol, one might bear in mind that the culture that produced this symbol is effectively dead, and that you have some understanding (albeit imperfect) of what it represents. You're coming at it from the other direction, or rather he thwer goths who got ankhs are coming at it from etc.
 
 
bio k9
22:30 / 19.02.04
How much research do you have to do before you are allowed?

I think he should get a black belt in karate first.
 
 
The Puck
22:33 / 19.02.04
he might have too judging from some peoples opinions.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:38 / 19.02.04
What about this?



Is this an acceptable way for a white man to "engage" with a culture not his own?
 
 
The Puck
22:40 / 19.02.04
How on earth is that relavant?
 
 
Jack Fear
00:10 / 20.02.04
Highly relevant, I'd say. White folks adopting outward signifiers of another culture forcultural cachet, and all that.

And, you know, minstrel shows were very much engaged with African-American culture: the two men most responsible for the creation of minstrel culture, the songwriter Stephen Foster and the folklorist Joel Chandler Harris (who wrote the Uncle Remus stories--Br'er Rabbit and the Tar Baby, etc.), were intimately involved with black culture, having been essentially raised from infancy by black "mammies." Their songs and tales were extrapolations and interpretations of black music and folktales with which they were exceedingly well-versed.

And the white audiences for minstrel shows were mostly made up of people who lived and worked among blacks.

Blackface minstrel shows traded in stereotypes both positive (carefree, children-of-God, light-footed) and negative (lazy, ignorant). Some whites who performed in blackface could profess--perhaps even legitimately--that they were motivated by a sincere love for African-American culture.

I'm half-joking. Which means I'm half-serious. In any case, blackface minstrelry makes getting a tatt in Asian characters because "they look cool" seem like small potatoes.

Or, perhaps, like the thin end of the wedge.
 
 
Char Aina
00:49 / 20.02.04
i think the use of japanese lettering is often people trying to obfuscate what they feel is too obvious a tattoo...

see the tattoos for "happiness" or "good luck".

a combination of that and feeling like its more 'symbolic' or 'powerful' because it is foreign. similar to those folks who need their sorcerers' handbook to be written in an ancient and untranslatable form of aramiac slang, or the aetheist who believes in feng shui because chinese people just seem so mystical.

when is it okay, you ask?

for me, i think it is okay when the choice of alphabet/language is relevant to the meaning of the phrase, or its significance to you. if for example you had been sneeringly told 'better luck tomorrow' by a yakuza gunman as he levelled his hanyatti at your temple, only for wolverine to appear, gut him and save all your 'tomorrows', then i would think it would be okay.


i was asking for advice on a tattoo design previously.
i wanted to find the correct arabic calligraphy to represent the sufi written language, as i wanted to translate a proverb credited to that particualar sect. thats why i asked if 'better luck omorrow' was a japanese phrase; i think that makes it okay as long as you show a connection between the language and the idea.


s'mah tousenz, fwa'swurf.
 
 
Char Aina
00:52 / 20.02.04
sorry, i meant as long as there is a connection, not as long as you show one.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:25 / 20.02.04
But minstrelry wasn't for cultural cachet, but for money, surely? It was a form of entertainment - a minstrel was performing for an audience, whereas Mike-O is not *intentionally* providing a source of fun...
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
05:47 / 20.02.04
I expect quite a lot of people get tattoos that they think look cool without being aware of the connotations / symbolism / meaning. Kanji characters would appear to be the most common (current) example of this, but I'm going to go with the small potatoes school of thought. The guy I mentioned earlier who ended up with 'crispy' on his back was neither culturally insensitive nor a turbodouche supreme. He dated the (Japanese) guy who mis-translated the noodle package for him for a while, and he certainly didn't appear to be offended (he thought it was hilarious and took photos to send home). The worst thing he was guilty of was getting a dumb tattoo that made people grin when he told them about it.

As for traditional designs, some of them have been around for so long that they have taken on multiple meanings, while others have ended up with no real current meaning at all. Who's to say that the person sporting the tattoo is entirely oblivious to its original meaning or has not attributed a personal meaning to it? Even if they are oblivious, I doubt any 19th century sailors are going to give them shit for not spending five years at sea first.

About the only designs that I think are problematic are traditional ones with strong religious or cultural significance (didn't a Maori group recently express anger over Robbie Williams' and Mike Tyson's designs?) and perhaps prison tats (mostly because they could just end up pissing off the wrong person).
 
 
Bear
07:18 / 20.02.04
Discussions like this always make me think of magick, meat eaters using Buddhist techniques etc. In fact an awful lot of chaos magick would probably fall under the 'cultural tourist' heading...

Anyway can I keep watching anime because I'm really enjoying Wolf's Rain
 
 
Cat Chant
15:49 / 20.02.04
Look! A Conversation thread has gone all serious and theoretical-like! And the Headshop is very busy this week!

Is Barbelith Dying? No!
 
 
rakehell
22:38 / 22.02.04
"It's just that a lot of us find that treating other cultures like something to be used as adornment and fashion accessory and not actually engaging with them is a particularly icky form of American/Western cultural exchange."

Riiight, because all the English language t-shirts, signs and tattoos in Japan are totally well thought out and not at all simply adornment and fashion.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:30 / 23.02.04
All your base are belong to us.
 
 
Cat Chant
11:09 / 23.02.04
Riiight, because all the English language t-shirts, signs and tattoos in Japan are totally well thought out and not at all simply adornment and fashion.

So your argument is... "they started it"?
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:17 / 23.02.04
Probably more one of symmetry. "If its ok for others, why isn't it ok for me?"
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
12:32 / 23.02.04
"yeah, a neighbour of mine had a t shirt with random english written all over it.. she was korean."

Well when you've punched them in the face make sure they are aware it was because they're cultural tourists, I'd suggest perhaps spray painting them.

Well it was only a matter of time before Barbelith's first hate crime.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:45 / 23.02.04
Now we've got that sorted out, can we kick some serious shit out of non-Christians who wear crosses?
 
 
40%
12:51 / 23.02.04
Okay, but you'd probably fight better without that turban on.
 
  

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