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Designing A Japanese Tattoo

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The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

13:48 / 25.02.04

Presumably Mike O likes the look of the Japanes language as a whole when written down, either that or he's weirdly picked a language at random and also presumably if that particular ideogram does not look nice he won't go ahead and stamp it. Tacky it may be but that's subjective taste. He wants a message he finds with meaning codified in a symbol he'll most probably find aestheticly pleasing, I hardly think it makes him commodore perry.

I also think this smack of hypocrisy on a web site that treats the noble profession of ninja as ireverent frippery!

14:01 / 25.02.04

...and not just a meaningless appropriation for the sake of it.

I actually read sake as: sA-key (the alcoholic beverage that goes great with sushi).
I must stop reading this thread.

16:53 / 25.02.04

what's so noble about ninja?
they skulk around in the dark and kill you without anouncing their intentions. as haus will no doubt be able to explain, they also never did that right. any depth or enlightened state of being they have in our minds is a creation of TeeVee and other folklore.

'sides, ninjas, like curry, are something many of us know how to create our own version of. the japanese language is not.

17:12 / 25.02.04

One basically knows what curry *is* - you can't really appropriate it as a concept.

Hmm. Yes and no. I shuddered when I read as a Top Tip in Take A Break that you can make a delicious curry by putting a tin of baked beans in a blender with a teaspoon of supermarket curry powder, as I would say that is not what curry is - so notions of authentic/inauthentic certainly come in, which are kind of linked to notions of who has a right to define "curry". And there's an interesting difference between curry, which still sells itself as "exotic" food, vs fish'n'chips, which has assimilated itself to indigeneity - cf the decor in a typical "Indian" restaurant vs a typical "chippy". So there's an inauthentic mythic dimension to both curry and Japanese tattoos...

Why am I even arguing about this? I'm far too tired to make any sense. Sorry. Someone should pick that up and run with it, though, it might be interesting in the right hands (the hands with an authentic cultural connection to, or a learned knowledge of, it?)

17:38 / 25.02.04

Leaf it out!

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:46 / 25.02.04

I have said this before, but the ninja weer not actually very good, historically speaking. No ninja ever managed to take out a shogun. Best try was three ninja with a cannon (a very piratical approach), which killed a passle of the shogun's chums, but not the shogun. As such, Mike-O is harder than ninja.

Reidcourchie - the point is, one can hardly appreciate aesthetically the look of a series of characters *one does not actually know the look of*. Otherwise he could choose to have "Millwall, Millwall, they never score because they are ladies" tattooed on his face, if the question is only one of a general character set. Think on't.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:09 / 25.02.04

Yeah, they sucked.

00:34 / 26.02.04

YES, harder than ninja. =)

00:39 / 26.02.04

And yes,"rise of Reidcourchie", it's pretty much that... I mean okay I probably would come off as a knob if I had a tat in a language I wasn't able to speak... but the motivations were largely aesthetic combined with putting something down on myself that means something in a personal way but that kinda looks a little balls in just english. And boy, does that ever sound hypocritical given that's my tongue, but then who gives a fuck? Would I give an asian guy flack for having an english tat? (But at this point I've decided on something different anyways, so this is all irrelevant)...

03:29 / 26.02.04

...what are you getting? (if you don't mind saying...I'm asking out of purely tatoo-related interest)

07:10 / 26.02.04

Mike-O, DON'T answer that. Else the whole thing might begin again...

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:14 / 26.02.04

It better not be an ankh.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:24 / 26.02.04

OR a cross.

And them furriners that wear Union Jacks sometimes...

they make me seethe!

Oh yeah, and Liverpool supporters who weren't born there like I was.

01:29 / 27.02.04

are you even a supporter?
or are you just not letting anyone else?

06:31 / 27.02.04

who has a right to define "curry"

What about Japanese-style curry? I used to work near 'Little Osaka' and Hurry Curry was right across the street from Curry House. Japanese curries all resemble one another pretty closely, to the best of my knowledge, and whenever somebody mentions curry, it's the first thing I think of. Smooth brown sauce and steamed white rice.

Jack The Bodiless

12:06 / 02.03.04

People seem to be arguing that it's in some way tacky and/or 'wrong' for Mike-O to fancy getting a tattoo of a favourite phrase translated into Japanese because he's a fan of the aesthetic of the script. The cultural appropriation thing apepars to centre around the fact that Western - specifically imperialist Western - culture has a history of taking motifs and designs from other cultures and relocating them into a Western milieu for no other reason than it looks pretty or picturesque.

I have Hebrew script on my back. I know what it means, and checked before I got it (a friend translated it, and I verified with a reasonably extensive online search, which revealed that, although his translation was only a loose one, it was also nominally correct, and that other loose translations are just as personal to me). I chose it both because it was cool looking, and because of the above meaning. I am not Jewish, Arab or Israeli or any cultural/racial permutation or thereof, and nor is any of my family. I have only a vestigial interest in Jewish culture or the language concerned in general.

How does that grab the conscientious cultural objectors here? C'mon, go nuts...

12:12 / 02.03.04

You bastard.

12:45 / 02.03.04

Oy vey! You got some pretty big cojones to post that here, cabron. Apart from cultural appropriate being so gauche, you have no excuse to avoid using the global lingua franca. Namely, English. Its pure kitsch and I shall experience no little schaudenfreude watching the hoi polloi turn your supposed bon mots turn into your bette noir. Savoir-faire is the sine qua non of tout le monde, here on Barbelith.

12:49 / 02.03.04

you anti-semitic bastard.

13:05 / 02.03.04

Tom: I hope you're gonna ban him for this. I'm moderating for all his posts to be deleted.

13:07 / 02.03.04

Jack, that is. Not Bill. I agree with Bill and his strong stance on anti-semetic tattos.

13:48 / 02.03.04

Indeed, though I'm not one for censorship and fascistic moderation here on the 'Lith, yes, someone, anyone, delete that post at once! And delete Jack's back, too!! Otherwise we'll all be posting in German by the end of the week. The Nazi menace must not be allowed to triumph.

* proudly sings Dambusters theme *

14:53 / 02.03.04

I have a Star of David on my back! Let's hang out!

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:58 / 02.03.04

hoi means "the". You insensitive *fuck*.

19:06 / 02.03.04

I should KILL YOU ALL WHERE YOU STAND, in the very RAT-HOLES IN WHICH YOU FESTER, you pack of STIFF-ARMED, INK-SPATTERED FASCIST ASS-BASTARDS.

Tattoos = the "I'm With Stupid" T-shirt of the MTV Generation.

The Tower Always Falls

02:13 / 03.03.04

At risk of adding more petroleum to the ensuing blaze...

So suppose you are white and want a Japanese symbol on your shoulder. You actualy studied religion in Tokyo and Kyoto for a while and also knew some of the language, although this has completely deteriorated over the years to 2-year old status. Most people would say that you have more than a lifetime passing interest and appreciation in this culture. Is this tatoo justified?

Likewise, say you want Hebrew script on your back (sycnhronicity Jack...)- specifically EMET. You don't speak or read Hebrew, but want this particular word because of the golem connotations, as well as what the word means (Truth), as well as a true appreciation for the intricacy and layered meanings of the Hebrew language (Truth becoming Death, Aleph being Light and inspiration and without it is disintergration...). You are technically Jewish according to Israel law, due to maternal bloodlines passing it down even though you were never raised as such. (Long, detailed history of your grandmother being taken to Synagouge in secret at night and going to an Irish Catholic school during the day so that the Chicago White Sox can safely pretend in public that their accountant is a good Catholic) Is this tatoo justified?

Full disclosure: I have no tatoos, yet I am considering the latter. I considered the former, but decided against it because... well, every trendy fucker has one- as has been so eloquently expressed already.

And I can't find it on the website, but there was a brillaint Onion "In The News" bit that said "Woman's Arm A Confusing Jumble Of Cultural Symbols". Damn... it's gone I think. Well here's this.

Travel the world in a single piece of skin...

Jack The Bodiless

12:06 / 03.03.04

Tattoos = the "I'm With Stupid" T-shirt of the MTV Generation.

Jesus wept. Not quite the most brainless thing you've ever said, but pretty close, old pal, old buddy...

12:09 / 03.03.04

Yeah, well. You would say that, wouldn't you.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:23 / 03.03.04

Are they still an "I'm with stupid" T-shirt if you're technically part of the MTV generation but never actually had MTV, and sometimes not even just TV, during your formative years? Does it then become something like a Millet's parka? I ask coz I really need to categorize the little black rose I have on my bonce, and any future tatts.

Jack The Bodiless

12:41 / 03.03.04

Yeah, well. You would say that, wouldn't you.

I'm not the only one, either. Funnily enough, the stupidity of the remark seems fairly obvious even if you don't already have a bias in favour of tattoos. But then you've made your reactionary and offensive opinions on any kind of bodymod pretty clear in the past, so I guess it's too much to expect you to keep them to yourself now, right?

12:53 / 03.03.04

Actually, Bodiless, it's more like you made the mistake of showing me where your button is, and now it's too much to expect me to stop pushing it.

Now DANCE, monkey! Dance for me! DANCE!

Jack The Bodiless

13:01 / 03.03.04

Button, he says. Button. Button. Button.

Shit, the word's lost all meaning.

Fear, y'old tortoise, your nurse says it's time for cocoa. You like your cocoa, don't you, Mr Fear? Yes you do, yes you do. No, come on now, Mr Fear, the young people don't want to hear you bleating on at them again. Come on, drink your cocoa and have yourself a nice nap.

Silly old Mr Fear.

13:08 / 03.03.04

Bravely played, Inky-Boy.

But you too shall be old some day, whereas I will never be tattoo'd.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:12 / 03.03.04

I'm going to be both old and tattooed. In fact, I reckon my tattooedness will increase in direct proportion to my advancing years.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:14 / 03.03.04

In fact, this thread makes me want tatts more than ever. And teflon implants in my forearms. And horns. Horns are cool.

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