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New X-Men #153

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I'm Rick Jones, bitch

20:34 / 03.03.04

CRY HAVOK! AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF FAN FICTION!

I love you all but some of this really is the most rediculous bollox ever.

20:40 / 03.03.04

Actually, he may be on to something. I believe the story Fantomex recounts to Logan is a story about a SPACE traveller who flew out of the world and into the great unknown. He returned after what seemed like a short journey to him, but was actually millenia on earth, coming back to a strange and unrecognizable planet.

There are parallels with this story, my idea that Weapon XV could become the new Xorn, and Chesed's vMeme parallels about intellectual ascension and uploading. If Weapon XV transcended the World, therefore uploading himself into a higher conciousness, and if we agree that Xorn's Buddhist ideals are the ultimate in ascension, then it would fit that the Space Traveller who ascended into the great unknown comes back as the only fully-realized, yet fictional, persona in the book.

20:55 / 03.03.04

I added that XV prototype crap just to see if someone would call us on all this fanfic drivel we're spitting.

XV is unfortunately dead. So's Magneto. So's Xorn. So's QQ. So's Esme and Darkstar and Colossus and Psylocke and Risque. And Jean, I think...

21:32 / 03.03.04

Fine.

21:44 / 03.03.04

XV is unfortunately dead. So's Magneto. So's Xorn. So's QQ. So's Esme and Darkstar and Colossus and Psylocke and Risque. And Jean, I think...

Of course, some of those are obviously less permanent than others...

02:13 / 04.03.04

Some X-Men mini-essays, look quite good.

Didn't really know where to put it, but there's allsorts.

08:27 / 04.03.04

You know, Chesed... You're usually a brilliant guy, but sometimes you can be such a prick... and a stubborn one, indeed.

09:09 / 04.03.04

Just to clarify that point, here's the 'space/time traveller' excerpt from issue 144 (Fantomex to Cyke):

"My partner E.V.A. has a story about a SPACE TRAVELLER travelling at light speed through the stars for what seems to him to be only days. But when he arives home, breathless with tales of the great beyond, he finds that HUNDREDS of years have passed. And everyone he knew died LONG AGO."

Thus said, I assume he arrived in the FUTURE, whoever he/she/it is.

Anyway, I think that connection between QQ and Skylark might be too much of a stretch.

Next post, some parallels between Weapon XV and... XORN!

09:44 / 04.03.04

Well, here are those curious similarities between Weapon 15 and Xorn. I'm not claiming they are the same (nor denying it, mind ya), but there are definitely striking parallels:

- In issue 143, a surviving AIM operative says about Weapon 15:
'It can stare so hard at things they explode, but it didn't see me...
...THE HEAD WAS ALL SMOKE AND LIGHTS and... PEOPLE just... BOILED inside...'
(a SMOKY, LIT-UP head? ring a bell? and remember what happened to those guinea pigs in Feng Tu, when they were exposed to Xorn's face?)

- In issue 144, Weapon 15 says (thinks?):
'I have BROKEN the World.' (what if he broke the Universe too?) and continues...
'But do I build a new prison here in the ruins... or dare I go beyond?'
(remember how AoJun claimed to have built a new Feng Tu in the ruins of the first prison, after Xorn's alleged escape?)

- In issue 145, Weapon 15 again:
'I have come to this house as if drawn to a LIGHT INSIDE MY MIND.'
(dare I say more?)
Later, during his existentialist doubts, he asks 'What is the purpose of life?', questions Dr.Sublime's directives and finishes with:
'...I could have been a painter, as well...'
(he could have been anything, or he '(...)could have layed the foundations of Paradise on Earth', as Xorn said)

- Then, his 'death' in issue 146, when Wolverine claims Weapon 15 has lowered his guard... and then what? Wolverine gutted him? how? in issue 144, Logan slices him several times with ABSOLUTELY NO CONSEQUENCES (beyond a lot of sparks)! So, how could have Logan killed him? Especially because he was...
'Unstoppable, indestructible, IMMORTAL.'

The body we see in issue 146 is probably just a container of Weapon15' true form, an energy life form who was somehow released after the station exploded.

Too many coincidences?

10:08 / 04.03.04

Um... is it me or are you all missing the obvious nature of the SPACE TRAVELLER story?

Its an analogy for Fantomex. He left The World and when he returned everyone he knew from there had died because of the accelerated time.

Simple mais non?

10:17 / 04.03.04

And to take on the Weapon XV vs Xorn parallels I'd like to point out that Grant has a thing for repetition. Telepathy is all the way through NXM why not Heads for Light?
If there's one thing GM's done on this run is keep everything simple and run through a limited number of themes and characters. Except for the Xorn/Magneto thing but I doubt he'll do that again (oh... Ernst/Cassandra.. I'll shut up now).

10:34 / 04.03.04

Quoting Rawkusbiu: "Um... is it me or are you all missing the obvious nature of the SPACE TRAVELLER story?
Its an analogy for Fantomex. He left The World and when he returned everyone he knew from there had died because of the accelerated time."

- Oh, but did he leave the World travelling at lightspeed through the stars? And did he return there breathless with tales of the great beyond? Yeah, I thought he didn't too.

10:37 / 04.03.04

Sorry... sent the message too soon.

But yeah, if we look at it as an analogy, you may be right, with emphasis on MAY.

Matthew Fluxington

10:55 / 04.03.04

I don't think that Quire is particularly relevant to this story, other than that when was dying, he entered the White Hot Room and saw the future that we're reading about now. I doubt that he'll pop up again, unless we enter the White Hot Room itself.

13:58 / 04.03.04

But yeah, if we look at it as an analogy, you may be right, with emphasis on MAY

I thought it was quite a logical conclusion... he says it as he returns to The World, its a nice bit of poetic analogy. It made me think that Fantomex was more of a sympathetic character, which I think was the idea.

I find it amusing that its generally only here that the wild theories run rampant, one throw away line creates a vast conspiracy that manages to get a life of its own. Its both good and bad.
Its also amusing that now we're one issue away from completion the theories are flowing thicker and faster than ever... in case we don't get to do it once GM's run is finished and he's managed to explain everything and tie up all his loose ends with one neat little bow.
What will we do once he's finished?

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

14:44 / 04.03.04

Write our own.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:47 / 04.03.04

I think we've already written a better issue than Grant is likely to...

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

14:55 / 04.03.04

Which is my point :-). As I've posted before, the ideas that have been posited here and on the other NXM threads are what have kept me reading - I stopped reading NXM with Assault on Weapon X - and I believe that there are more interesting concepts presented here than in Morrison's run.

15:47 / 04.03.04

Yes, of course, we're all so damm brilliant... I don't even know why do we spend so much time discussing these stories by such a lousy and predictable writer...

Yes, of course...

16:07 / 04.03.04

(now in a less bitter mode)

Some of you are being extremely unfair to Grant Morrison. He laid all the foundations of a great run. Will it prove to be just great or will it turn to be absolutely brilliant? Only the conclusion will tell.

Because I think it's already brilliant in the way he has been writing and tieing everything together, in the way he's been planting hints and clues, some of them certainly misleading or even with double meanings.

Some of our theories may be very interesting, that's obvious, but they wouldn't even exist without Grant's creations. He made us think, he made us investigate, because he made us care for the characters, care for the storylines. So sometimes we read too much from his words, stretch our theories too far or even expand beyond what he intended to or thought of. We're intelligent, articulate people, we're here to speculate.

But does that make our rantings better than his actual stories? That's not even comparable. If we want to be judged or compared to Grant, we better write our own original stories, instead of claiming a theoretical fanfic is better than the original. That's a great disservice to Morrison and ourselves.

16:50 / 04.03.04

I agree... I think ppl here tent to get off on certain concepts and attempt to spell out what will happen. When it doesn't, it's b/c "Grant isn't writing well anymore, I could write it better"... well, NO, bullshit, you couldn't. This guy is the fucking ISPIRATION with his work, and just b/c he may not chose to follow what seems most logical to anyone here doesn't detract from the man's skill and story. GM will wrap shit up how he sees fit... and it will be the beast of all possible ending b/c this is HIS story.

Now I'm not trying to Nazi the fact that I think crying about NXM is ridiculous, b/c that would in turn be bullshit. All I'm saying is, yes, I think everyone involved in the NXM threads have had some crazy-imaginative and entertaining ideas at one point or another, but let's not get ahead of ourselves by claiming Grant's shit compared to what gets thrown around here. That's just a little nuts...

17:02 / 04.03.04

As one of those none too happy with his writing of late I think I should step in.
My enjoyment (and sometimes understanding) of his work generally stems from the discussion that comes about after each issue.
His actual writing, dialogue and plotting have been somehwat lacking since Riot. I'm sorry if you don't agree but I've been bitterly disappointed on many occassions in the past year after reading an issue of NXM and just thinking: "what the crap was that?"

This last arc has been a return to form but I'm still concerned at his throw away nature with some of the more ambiguous ideas and plot points that he throws out every page. I'd like him to stop and focus instead of spewing forth all these ideas. Just once perhaps he could see one through to execution?

I REALLY want to be proved wrong with his last issue... but to be honest I think his last issue was really with Planet X. Here Comes Tomorrow seems a bit tacked on the end for the sake of it.

17:44 / 04.03.04

I just got smacked with the parallel of Weapon Plus creating a comic book super team to wipe out all mutants and Cassie sending a comic book super team, the Imperial Guard, to wipe out all mutants. I realize that sending a comic book super team to do anything in a comic book is rather par for the course, but still!

17:46 / 04.03.04

But it's already tied together so many loose threads and allusions from earlier.

3/4 in, it looks like everything was choreographed for this, to me. That, and the whole 'Days of Future Past' angle.

MFreitas - yes, yes and yes.

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

18:40 / 04.03.04

MFreitas - If by "some of you" you're referring to my post, then I'd like to clarify it: Morrison is my favourite comic book writer and I consider his work, among others, to have inspired my own. What I'd tried to point out is that lately, it hasn't been Morrison's work itself that has kept me interested, but the discussion that surrounds it on this and previous threads. Most of the posters on this thread have used Morrison's ideas, as well as the ideas that inform his writing, to explore the concepts and characters in NXM beyond their presentation in the comic itself, often with imaginative and intellectual posts. That they have done so seems to me to provide a parallel to Morrison's own story of development, and is a credit to both writer and reader. I would buy any comic in which the writing was as thought-provoking and enjoyable as reading some of these discussions. I don't think I'm criticising Morrison's work on NXM if I think that some of the discussions are more interesting than the comic that inspired them - I consider that to be positive. I don't advise writing NXM fan-fiction in order to explore these ideas, but I'd suggest moving beyond the characters to examine the concepts themselves, and working with them to produce original material.

10:28 / 05.03.04

I wasn't mentioning only you specifically, Carnaby, otherwise I would have said it. You weren't the only one with that line of thinking.

Anyway, I think both our points of view have been perfectly made clear.

On with the show!

(and next week's advance copy? who's gonna reveal it to me?)

15:20 / 05.03.04

I second that emotion. Now that we've had weeks of furious spectulation, bring on the damn spoilers! I want to know if this next issue will be good or not!

16:31 / 05.03.04

Well I know what I'm gonna do after the run is done.
It's based in three little simple things:
1- Continue to read comics until I find someone that cathc my mind so much as this one.
2- RE-read it countless times.
3- (This I am already doing it) Redraw the issues that I didn't liked the art. Currently I'm working in the first two pages of the first issue of Assault on Weapon Plus.

Matthew Fluxington

17:16 / 05.03.04

I don't advise writing NXM fan-fiction in order to explore these ideas, but I'd suggest moving beyond the characters to examine the concepts themselves, and working with them to produce original material.

It's the opposite for me. I like the characters more than the Big Ideas. I'd be more interested in seeing characters like Fantomex, Beak, Cassandra, the Cuckoos, Martha, Scott, Henry, Emma, etc be further developed by other writers because they have so much potential that Grant only hinted at while he was writing the book. I find the characters far more compelling than anything else. When I think of NXM, my best memories of it come from the fun of anticipating what comes next and just plain enjoying the characters.

17:31 / 05.03.04

I agree Flux but I'd prefer if it was GM doing the "further adventures of..." The thought of letting some of these fantastic characters out into the mess that is Reload worries me to no end. I don't think I'll stick around once he's gone, none of the creative line-ups really do it for me.

Except Joss' one... but even then it'll be a nice hardcover eventually and I'll just wait for that.

17:39 / 05.03.04

Just reread Assault on Weapon Plus with Quitely drawing it in my mind. I liked it so much better.

I agree with Flux in that the true meat of this whole experience is what is actually written. The theories are fun and lord knows I'm one of the guiltiest speculators. But having reread a lot of the run in the past few days, it's clear that the biggest deterrent to enjoying this run at face value is holding on to continuity. Without caring about what happened before, or laterally in other books, this run really is pure genius. The Assault arc in particular.

But I do not expect a nice, neat package to be created in the final issue. I'm going to fill in the blanks with what I think certain open-ended statement allude to, like the Beast's speech about allies. Then, I am NOT going to visit any web site where I can debate my assumptions and be told I'm wrong. NXM is best when self-contained, both in its own universe and in the reader's mind.

06:03 / 06.03.04

rI have read over everyones ideas and am completely amazed how deep you think one last issue of new xmen is gonna be. Grant Morrison is the best writer in comics period, But i think rawkus is right whne he says he needs to slow down and take a deep breath before spewing his never ending ideas onto paper. in one issue he could make his whole run come together like glue, and i would would pay money for him to read over all your ideas and rewrite 154 becasue i dont think its gonna happen. but for fun il play along.
THERES ANOTHER THING EVERYONE HERE HAS MISSED as far as i know anyway....
In the weopon plus storyline the leader said they had an insider in the school. could it be Ernst since she knew who fantomex was, and magneto said theres more to her than apeared.

Another Threory- Maybe All four of them. EVA SCOTT FANTOMEX and WOLVERINE (this is a stretch but just for fun) there still stuck in THE WORLD living out eons of evolution.

11:27 / 06.03.04

Ernst being Cassandra would be 'more than there appeared'.

I've got Dummy or Esme as the insider.

13:39 / 06.03.04

Yep, Dummy being the main suspect. And I find rather amusing (not!) someone who claims to have read every post and still says EVERYBODY has missed the 'informant at the school' bit. That's been discussed here and there and that was one of the topics I only recently listed as still in the open.

And the thing with Ernst was soooo obvious.

20:24 / 06.03.04

oh, i apologize i was drunk when i read them all

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