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Lost in Translation

 
  

Page: 1234(5)6

 
 
Cold Bacon
15:50 / 07.03.04
E Randy,

This thread is obviously already dead. No one can actually refute any of my accurate and true complaints with this B+ film. I have no choice but to post a 2nd essay in an attempt to discover whether anyone out there can actually defend the film on terms other than 'gee i loved it' 'the music was so great' and 'bill murray was so funny.' And no, in case anyone is wondering, Sofia Coppola did not pee on my foot.

Dear Ms. Fleming,

I am writing in regard to your recent Newshour essay contrasting Kill Bill and Lost In Translation. First, I fully sympathize with your sentiment that Tarantino is not the bold filmmaker he was once thought to be, although he might be. And I agree with you a bold filmmaker could be someone who reaches deep into the common human experience, and pulls out something meaningful, which needn't have to do with swords, decapitations or even goblins. But alas, Sofia Coppola is not the answer you seek. Lost In Translation has all the trappings of a great movie. It has great sights and sounds and solid acting by at least one actor. But it's not a great movie. And if its immediate success and acceptance is any clue, nor is it bold.

You suggest that by not relying on mega-violence and sex, Coppola is somehow bold? What was bold about having the two protagonists not have sex given that half of America would have thrown up on themselves if they had and that some of that vomit might have reached the tender ankle of Mrs. Coppola? Wong Kar-Wai's In The Mood For Love focused on the longing of two people who are ultimately unable to connect, and by connect I mean have sex. Now that was bold since we wanted them to get together as much if not more than the characters themselves did. And what was bold about having such a huge age difference between Bob and Charlotte? Harold and Maude had an even bigger one, and they sure enough did have sex. And I almost vomited, but I didn't. Now that was bold filmmaking.

You say that Kill Bill is shallow, but when it comes to superficiality, it is Coppola who is the hostess with the mostest. No need to crowd. There's plenty for everyone. First, we have the shameless exoticization of the Japanese, which should bother you. Coppologists will say it's okay because it's only the perspective of Bob and Charlotte. But where is the evidence that Coppola's own is any different? Consider the 'lip my shoe' scene with the Japanese prostitute in the hotel. First, no hooker should have to suffer such humilation. As if it weren’t enough to be rejected by the client, now her accent is ridiculed on top of it. And while it may not be a crime to employ this sort of joke, it does create an imbalance in the force, which the director must then do something to correct. Take the scene in Kubrick’s Full Metal Jacket when the motorcycle pimp brings the Vietnamese prostitute to the young GI's. They all make fun of his accent. "Do you wan number wan fuckie?" "Yes, we wan, we wan." But when the prostitute refuses to do it with a black man, note how the pimp shows respect by faithfully translating her objection. "Too beaucoup. Too beaucoup." Then when the penis in question is taken out, the pimp preserves his own dignity by looking away. And like the pimp, Kubrick shows deference and sympathy to the characters he has brought forth for our consumption. True we still laugh, but not unreproved. This is the right way to do the foreign accent thing. Coppola's is wrong.

But Saturday Night Live does it, don't they, with Steve Martin and Dan Akroyd as two "wild and crazy" Czech brothers swinging for American foxes? Sure, they make fun of the accents, the attitudes, the powervac all the way from Bratislova. But in the end, low and behold, they sure enough do get the foxes. Again, the issue isn't whether you make fun of someone or not. It's why. In Best In Show we get to laugh ourselves silly over crazy-obsessed dog people, but we're also made to love them—and through the same sequences. And when Coppola does try to prop up Japanese culture, it seems forced because it's unconnected to the main storyline. Misty walks through Japanese temples are as pertinent as a series of self-help tapes or a swim in the hotel pool. We watch young Japanese kids being cool in an arcade. Yes, they are cool. And it has nothing to do with Bob or Charlotte other than they're totally missing it. It seems with Lost Coppola expects us to laugh at Japanese culture, but love Bob and Charlotte—and then spend a little time just staring at the screen.

Next, we're given a one-dimensional, wholly unsympathetic caricature of a wife back home. It's reverse exoticization I tell you! Bob's cookie-cutter wife does nothing to further the complexity of whatever internal struggle we might want to project onto him, since Coppola didn't. And are we to believe that anyone, no matter how deranged by drugs and rock and roll music, could ignore Scarlett Johansson? Half-clad? In a hotel room? In Japan? Actually, yes. If she was that boring, I think anything's possible. Personally, I would be very attracted to any tall, somewhat emaciated, Swedish-named heroin junkie with a six inch hypodermic sticking out of her chest. Now where could I find that? The friend on the phone in the beginning was almost as unrealistic. Scarlett Johansson pours her heart out to you on an overseas phone call. You just don't respond with "yeah, that's great, gotta go." Nobody does, except I suppose the people in Sofia Coppola's imagination.

Sometimes when trying to sort out good and great films, we must look to the little clues for help. When Bob gets out of the cab and whispers in Charlotte’s ear, it’s marketed as a transcendental moment shared between the two of them. But this is shattered when the entire point of the scene becomes not what either one of them is feeling, but rather the mere fact of us not being allowed to hear it. We want to know what he said because we’re desperate for some meaning to the whole affair when, of course, there is little. In In The Mood For Love, when Tony Leung whispers his secret into the wall at Angkor Wat, no one is thinking about what he’s actually saying because they already know the meaning and because they’re all too busy trying not to explode in huge tears. The scene is also a copout because it essentially provides audiences with the same gratification as another scene which did not take place, which is where the two of them just go into a room and shut the door on us (remember we don't expect or want them to show it). People have speculated on the many things he might have whispered in her ear. Let me propose that if he told her he loved her or wanted to see her again, that this would hardly be any more acceptable to his wife back home. And what else besides that could he possibly have said? Nice wig?

A light touch, in a great director, is when the sense of something deeper weighs like a sunken ship at the bottom of the film. But it is left there waiting and not blasted to the surface for vulgar looting. There is only seabed at the bottom of Lost In Translation. Nothing is asked of us or expected. We don’t have to fight back vomit (except perhaps during the karaoke scene) or tears or see something in any new light. The closest the film comes to being a real movie is when Bob stubs his toe and inadvertantly sleeps with the redhead next door, and both Charlotte and us have to deal with it.

Sofia Coppola does not have the light touch of a great director. She simply does not touch. She has made what amounts to an hour long Zima ad with a storyline by Nyquil fit for consumption by four million Americans ready to lap up an exocitized world and pretend like they've learned something. Tarantino may be, as you basically suggest, raised by wolves. But he is the master of the unique domain he himself has created. Not that I’m necessarily going in, but there he is. Lost In Translation is a good film for seeing one time. Then just as Bob will forget Charlotte, so too we will forget this film. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Yours Truthfully,
Cold Bacon
 
 
Ethan Hawke
16:08 / 07.03.04
I've always liked this one better.

Are we all sick of talking about LiT yet? When does Wes Anderson's The Life Aquatic come out?
 
 
Not Here Still
16:36 / 07.03.04
Dear God,

I don't like films where characters have conflicting emotions, it confuses me. I find conflicting emotions prevent me from seeing things as a tidy cohesive whole. I note you have also used the device of conflicting emotions in real life. Please stop using it.

And perhaps think about adding a little more meaning to life too, I can't deal with the random.


Cheers,

NMA
 
 
Baz Auckland
10:28 / 08.03.04
I think fred said it best above. "I still maintain that you are ascribing too-lofty ambitions to this project." It's just a comedy. It doesn't have to be anything profound, it can just be a fun movie.

...even if it apparently doesn't compare to it as a film, I'm glad that LiT wasn't In the Mood for Love...
 
 
Cold Bacon
11:58 / 08.03.04
not me again,

i hope that wasn't a response to me because i never complained about the characters having conflicting emotions or that the film was too random or that it wasn't profound enough (except to make one silly little joke). my complaint was that coppola has created unrealistic characters, that her script doesn't hold up, and that her attempts to manipulate her audience are as clumsy as they apparently have been successful. your response has nothing to do with anything i've said.

baz,

your surrender is unusual but i accept.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:44 / 08.03.04
...because that's the point of talking about Art: to be Right.

...

...uh, no.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:47 / 08.03.04
Oh, and this little gem...

But it's obviously too much to ask all of the people who are gushing of S.C. to actually sit thru ‘L'Avventura’ or ‘In the Mood For Love’...

...makes me far less inclined to listen to anything you have to say, because it marks you as a smug, patronizing little fuck.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:55 / 08.03.04
But the stuff about the ex-girlfriend, that was good, wasn't it?
 
 
HCE
17:22 / 08.03.04
Ok cold bacon, here are my point-by-point refutations & counter-arguments, except where I agree.

Lost In Translation has all the trappings of a great movie. It has great sights and sounds and solid acting by at least one actor. But it's not a great movie.

Originally, I simply didn't think it was possible to take Sophia Coppola seriously as a director because she's a lousy actor, and I don't think the two talents are entirely unrelated. To my astonishment, this film is being treated as something terribly novel, terribly moving, terribly serious. It's none of those things, but still I won't concede the point that it has their trappings.

What was bold about having the two protagonists not have sex given that half of America would have thrown up on themselves if they had and that some of that vomit might have reached the tender ankle of Mrs. Coppola?

You seem to be insisting that it is unrealistic that they didn't have sex. But Bob's not having sex with anybody -- not the prostitute, not the lounge singer (except by mistake), and probably not his wife either. He's emotionally constipated and the gentle laxative of connecting with somebody similarly lost yet sufficiently removed from his life to not be a part of his woes is more a welcome relief than some kind of aphrodisiac. For Charlotte's part, she too is probably not fucking even her distracted young husband, more than occasionally. It's not so easy to go from being emotionally and sexually repressed within a marriage to opening yourself to a new person, and certainly not over the course of such a short period of time. It is entirely realistic that they wouldn't have sex -- I certainly wouldn't have sex with Charlotte, it'd make me feel like a child molester, nor with Bob, who seems far more weary than alluring. Their satisfaction comes from A) connecting as people who feel out of place, both within their lives and within themselves, not to mention within Japan, and B) connecting intergenerationally and across gender. Type B) is a particularly sweet sort of connection and sometimes it includes sex but sometimes it does not. I was absolutely able to identify with both Bob and Charlotte on B), which made A) more credible to me though I can't personally identify with it.

First, we have the shameless exoticization of the Japanese, which should bother you. Coppologists will say it's okay because it's only the perspective of Bob and Charlotte. But where is the evidence that Coppola's own is any different?

I sort of agree here, but it's a subtle thing really. The point is not, as you point out, whether the Japanese actually do speak English with any particular type of accent, have wacky TV shows, arrange flowers, or have old temples: the question is how & why it's used here -- and I think in fact it is used legitimately. Bob & Charlotte are to some degree cultured & traveled, and doubtless don't consider themselves at all racist, and yet they indulge in obnoxious mocking. Is this realistic? Does is give it a fuller sense of what they're like? I think you can say yes to both.

Again, the issue isn't whether you make fun of someone or not. It's why. In Best In Show we get to laugh ourselves silly over crazy-obsessed dog people, but we're also made to love them—and through the same sequences.

But this is not a story about the Japanese! She used Japan because that's what she knows. Could this have been a movie set in Madrid? Possibly -- there are wacky things there, but also old & beautiful things. Or set in Bombay? Bombay is in some ways even funnier and more beautiful than Tokyo, but I don't think SC knows fuck all about Bombay (or Mumbai). And the point is not to love Bob & Charlotte, but simply to understand them. If you say that you don't want to understand them because they're pricks, well fine, but they're not only pricks. They also are capable of feeling something. The Rich & Idle Have Feelings Too.

Next, we're given a one-dimensional, wholly unsympathetic caricature of a wife back home.

Again, it's not her story. A movie can't be about every person in it, unless you're a fucking genius like Ermanno Olmi or Andrei Tarkovsky, which SC is not and nobody's saying she is.

The friend on the phone in the beginning was almost as unrealistic. Scarlett Johansson pours her heart out to you on an overseas phone call. You just don't respond with "yeah, that's great, gotta go."

I concede the point about the friend.

When Bob gets out of the cab and whispers in Charlotte’s ear, it’s marketed as a transcendental moment shared between the two of them.

Yeah, I also thought the whisper was pretty gratuitious. Actually, the whisper bothered me more than anything else in the film. Come on already, don't try to shoehorn in some mystery or depth into what is basically a mood piece.

In In The Mood For Love, when Tony Leung whispers his secret into the wall at Angkor Wat, no one is thinking about what he’s actually saying because they already know the meaning and because they’re all too busy trying not to explode in huge tears.

A light touch, in a great director, is when the sense of something deeper weighs like a sunken ship at the bottom of the film. But it is left there waiting and not blasted to the surface for vulgar looting.

You're right on both those counts, but what evidence do you have that she's trying for either of those things? The whisper? The not-having-sex? The worst thing you can say about this film is that in some parts her clumsiness as a director works against the film's strengths -- the cinematography, the wistfulness. Also I don't think you gave it enough hell for the music, which couldn't have been any more intrusive and as far as I could tell served only one purpose, and that was letting people know what kind of music SC likes.

The lounge singer stole the show, in my opinion. Somebody go make a movie about her.
 
 
ibis the being
18:04 / 08.03.04
One of my college professors said about (most of) my fiction writing - a lot of moody, pretty but aimless, what-is-love stuff - that when she read it she felt a little embarrassed and a little bored. That's my exact response to LIT. It showcases that kind of adolescent self-fascination that's fairly universal but a little embarrassing and a little boring, pretty but neither original nor profound.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
18:34 / 08.03.04
Oh, and this little gem...

But it's obviously too much to ask all of the people who are gushing of S.C. to actually sit thru ‘L'Avventura’ or ‘In the Mood For Love’...

...makes me far less inclined to listen to anything you have to say, because it marks you as a smug, patronizing little fuck.


Uch. This is probably my most loathed Message Board Response (#324, I believe in the National Archive For Message Board Cliches). What, if anything, is less smug and patronizing than completely ignoring a thoughtful and well written post because the writer had the balls to call the reader out on his or her film viewing experience?

Please, disregard any episode of the Sopranos because they gratuitously murder people and you disagree with gratuitous murder.

Please, disregard Nabokov's work because you disagree with statutory rape.

Actually, feel free to do all those things, but don't expect me to take your indignation seriously.

Fact is, it's increasingly likely that the situation is just as Cold Bacon described. It's much more dangerous to assume that Audiences Are Much More Experienced Than They Let On (in terms of seeing lesser known movies) than it is to assume the opposite. When one does make the sensible choice and assume the opposite, as Cold Bacon does, they're labeled "smug, patronizing little fuck[s]."

You honestly believe that this is not the case? Granted, people who post on Barbelith have most likely seen all of those movies (or maybe not, that's not the point). I'd say, though, that about .000003% of those people make up the governing body of the Academy For Motion Picture Arts & Sciences, The Filmgoing Public, or the Published Body Of Film Criticism. All three of the above, by the way, are directly responsible for LiT's perceived, critical, and financial success.
 
 
Simplist
20:26 / 08.03.04
What about naming the band Sausalito? Was that not a stroke of genius? Perhaps a very oblique reference to WKW since Maggie Cheung (ITMFL) and Leon Lai (Fallen Angels) starred in a cheesy movie by that name?

Actually it was just one more bit of snobbish mockery on the part of the filmmakers. The lead singer of 'Sausalito' represents a particular cultural type very familiar to anyone who lives anywhere near Marin County, California, the most famous town within which is Sausalito. Culture snobs like Coppola & Co. are obviously just as contemptuous of said Marin type as they are of the various other types represented by the characters in LiT aside from the two leads.
 
 
Jack Fear
20:27 / 08.03.04
As I read it, Cold Bacon was not simply saying that most LiT fans have not seen L'AVENTURA--I would not dispute that point.

What s/he's saying, asa I understand it, is that the average LiT fan would be incapable of "sitting through" an Antonioni film--i.e., they wouldn't have the patience / wouldn't understand it / don't have the refined aesthetic sensibility to appreciate it, as Cold Bacon hirself does.

It's an argument I hear a lot--that American audiences are morons--and it's indefensible and self-serving--both contemptuous and contemptible.
 
 
Deifelen
23:02 / 08.03.04
Lost In Translation has all the trappings of a great movie. It has great sights and sounds and solid acting by at least one actor. But it's not a great movie. And if its immediate success and acceptance is any clue, nor is it bold.

Well that last sentence got my "elitist snob" sense twitching...

First, we have the shameless exoticization of the Japanese, which should bother you.

Are you Amish? I only ask because I'm trying to figure out what kind of life someone would have to lead to consider the Japanese people we are shown in LiT to be shamelessly exotic.

People drinking in bars = Not exotic.
People getting drunk and singing punk songs. = Not exotic
People playing arcade games = Not exotic.
Camp talk show hosts = Not exotic.
Flower arranging and swimming pool areobics = Not exotic.

Consider the 'lip my shoe'

"lip my stocking"

scene with the Japanese prostitute in the hotel. First, no hooker should have to suffer such humilation. As if it weren’t enough to be rejected by the client, now her accent is ridiculed on top of it.

Her over the top attempts to get it on with Bob were ridiculed, not her accent.

And when Coppola does try to prop up Japanese culture, it seems forced because it's unconnected to the main storyline. Misty walks through Japanese temples are as pertinent as a series of self-help tapes or a swim in the hotel pool. We watch young Japanese kids being cool in an arcade. Yes, they are cool. And it has nothing to do with Bob or Charlotte other than they're totally missing it.

Yeah, except for the fact that Charlotte is standing RIGHT ******* THERE watching it with a big smile on her face.

Gah!

It seems with Lost Coppola expects us to laugh at Japanese culture, but love Bob and Charlotte—and then spend a little time just staring at the screen.

No, I think Coppola is inviting us to laugh at some of Bob's experiences, which isn't the same as laughing at Japanese culture.

Next, we're given a one-dimensional, wholly unsympathetic caricature of a wife back home.

She seemed like a nice woman to me.

The closest the film comes to being a real movie

What's a fake movie?

is when Bob stubs his toe

Charlotte stubs her toe (I wouldn't keep doing this if you didn't make such a big deal about light touches and looking for little clues).


Sofia Coppola does not have the light touch of a great director. She simply does not touch. She has made what amounts to an hour long Zima ad with a storyline by Nyquil fit for consumption by four million Americans ready to lap up an exocitized world and pretend like they've learned something.

Damn those dumb Americans and their love of exotic things like arcade games and skyscrapers!
 
 
Deifelen
23:20 / 08.03.04
Looks for the Edit post option which allows him to add all the fancy bold and italic stuff that he didn't put in before accidently hitting the Post Reply button...

WTF? I need the agreement of two other moderators???

Wanders off for another two years.
 
 
HCE
00:57 / 09.03.04
Dear Simplist,

Culture snobs like Coppola & Co.

What standard are you applying? I mean, sneering at smooth, soft jazz is all it takes to qualify you as a snob? How pitifully low the threshold has fallen.

*I* am a culture snob and I can guarantee you, no way in hell SC is ever making it into our club. Not even as Mascot or Towel Boy, let alone Treasurer or Social Coordinator.

Signed,
fred, Elitist-at-arms
Stan Brakhage Chapter
Karlheinz Stockhausen Division

(serious note: I can't stand Stan Brakhage)
 
 
Baz Auckland
02:15 / 09.03.04
Next, we're given a one-dimensional, wholly unsympathetic caricature of a wife back home.

...I don't think Bob's marriage was that unsympathetic. His wife wasn't made out to be evil in the least. He's thinking of her when he returns from karaoke, she calls him before he leaves to wish him a good flight and to see how he's doing...
 
 
Cold Bacon
12:08 / 09.03.04
Deifelin,

>Yeah, except for the fact that Charlotte is standing RIGHT ******* >THERE watching it with a big smile on her face.

i think you have a point here. she is standing there. she is visually connected with the material. it does play into the storyline of C being bored and spiritually empty. maybe i should not be complaining that it's disconnected to the film's story -- but rather the problem is it's disconnected to the story about Bob and C in terms of their 'hooking up or not hooking up' which is the story WE care about. be honest, the other stuff is just filler for most viewers. it's all about Bill Murray being funny and B and C's potential romance. the scenes with just C don't really excite anyone. so they are technical related, but their impact is minimally felt. in addition, they do seem contrived in that you can see Coppola's hand at work during those scenes. a scene is foced and clumsy when you watch it and the main thing you get from it is that the director was trying to make some point (i.e. this japanese tradition is cool or whatever or don't i like coldplay, etc).

but you are right, and i will adjust my essay to reflect this. unfortunately, not here, because that would require 31 moderators to come to a consensus. and think of the bribes that would take. whoa. i don't have that much gold trinket on hand.
 
 
Gary Lactus
13:10 / 09.03.04
(Spaliance)

Ummm, has anyone got anymore info on the Murray-as-neo-nazi thing?

I'm feeling pretty upset about this and I'm really surprised no-one's had anything to sa about this horrible, horrible news. Was the reviewer taking the piss?
 
 
Baz Auckland
14:34 / 09.03.04
If you do a google for Bill Murray and Neo-Nazi, all that comes up is the film review posted above. Maybe he just registered to be a Republican or something...
 
 
Simplist
18:07 / 09.03.04
What standard are you applying? I mean, sneering at smooth, soft jazz is all it takes to qualify you as a snob? How pitifully low the threshold has fallen.

Really, it wasn't just the music that was being mocked. The bit was an intra-regional California in-joke. Sure, it was vaguely amusing, in a mean-spirited kind of way--the Bay Area audience I saw the film with broke into titters when the singer said "We're...Sausalito!" I just found the attitude behind the slam to be distasteful, this whole offended "Oh how ridiculous those Marin people are, how dare they behave so, how dare they value and enjoy things I find ridiculous?" Not that I wasn't guilty of much the same kind of (counter)cultural snootiness myself when I was much younger--like 20--but at this point it's that very attitude that strikes me as ridiculous.
 
 
HCE
06:48 / 10.03.04
OK, I'll grant you that it was mean-spirited. Actually a great deal of the movie was mean-spirited, and maybe that's a better way to describe it than either obnoxious or racist.

(I still thought it was funny -- and in fact I wouldn't know about Sausalito if not for the film I mentioned.)
 
 
Baz Auckland
03:48 / 18.03.04
Poking around the internet tonight, I stumbled on a fansite that has the translation of the commerical-filming scene...

...quite funny...
 
 
Jack Fear
12:33 / 18.03.04
Mm. And the director's patter was just as ridiculous and affected in the original Japanese--which tends to support my thesis that the real cultural divide here was not East vs. West, but show-biz shallowness vs. introspective self-awareness...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:59 / 18.03.04
I'm glad I read that when I was really tired, because I don't remember exactly what it was now. I think it would sorta ruin that scene when I re-watched it though.

It's probably sort of what I imagined, but I think it works better when you have to think about it.
 
 
Cold Bacon
17:08 / 02.05.04
Moviemaking today divides into two main bodies of work: (1) the genre films that are so public a hermit couldn’t escape the omnipresent hype; and (2), a less observed film that leans heavily on the traits of other art forms, is strongly concerned with structure, and mightily taxes the brain with motivations and ideas well worth the dredging that it takes to find them. There are good films in both worlds, but they don’t feed each other in any framing-language-narrational way. Mike Snow never touches a Hollywood ticket and Coppola’s never heard of Fassbinder.

– Manny Farber, 1975
 
 
Jack Fear
21:10 / 02.05.04
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, Bacon, but that quote is just ill-informed bullshit. I'd bet my left nut that Francis Ford Coppola had indeed, even in 1975, heard of Fassbinder: the Hollywood directors of the 1970s, Coppola among them, were the first of the film-school generation, and were steeped in the avant-garde as well as the commercial classics.

It's always been like that, in all artforms: the avant-garde may reject the mainstream, but the mainstream tends to embrace the avant-garde, and appropriate its tropes and techniques as it finds useful. That's what the avant-garde is for: literally, it "goes in front," and breaks new ground, and its new discoveries are taken up by the rest of us in due course.

Anyway, even if those stereotypes were broadly valid in 1975, they're surely false today. Thanks in roughly equal measures to home video, the Sundance Film Festival, and the Weinstein brothers, we're in an entirely different landscape for film-watchers and film-makers: artsy little movies have never been so commercially viable, and the divide between high ("film") and low ("movie") cinema culture has never been so fluid or meaningless.
 
 
Cold Bacon
23:03 / 02.05.04
Coppola mentioned Godard, Antonioni and Wong Kar-Wai in her acceptance speech. Name one technique from any of them which is incorporated into her film. And please don't say handheld camera or cool music.
 
 
Jack Fear
23:58 / 02.05.04
Why not?

Or better yet, why try this exercise at all? If I can demonstrate specific techniques that Lost In Translation shares with L'Avventura or Weekend or Chungking Express, does that make Lost In Translation a better film, or a worse one?

If we say that LiT has themes and concerns in common with the work of those three directors, how does that effect your judgment of LiT?

I'm honestly baffled as to the terms in which you are trying to frame this debate. What, exactly, is your point? Do you think Sofia Coppola is just paying lip service to Godard et al? What evidence do you need that she has seen and appreciated their films?
 
 
Krug
05:53 / 06.05.04
I would like to take this oppurtunity to tell everyone that I thought L'Avventura was utter shite and completely lacking, what do they call it again? A heart. It's definitely not my cup of tea but it baffles me when it's put in the same category as LiT and ITMFL.

I don't see how anyone couldn't like In the Mood for Love unless they're the "aversion to subtitles" crowd. There is beauty in that film that anyone with half a brain can appreciate.
 
 
Cold Bacon
11:33 / 06.05.04
yes, and the other half of your brain currently enjoying l'avventura, chief.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:53 / 13.12.07
Hey now! With the dust largely cleared, we come to this: Digitally-enhanced audio reveals what Bob whispered to Charlotte in the final scene.

Spoiler, or simply missing the point?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:15 / 13.12.07
"Coppologists" lol
 
 
Mug Chum
15:59 / 13.12.07
I had seen another digitally enhanced audio of that scene. In that version it was...

... (spoiler)

something like "When you come back in the plane with him, tell him the truth, ok?". It was more fatherly advice-like.


I'm sure there's a version out there saying "In seven years I'll be in old-man's diapers. Is that a turn on?" and another one where he's saying "I'm Batman".
 
 
HCE
19:25 / 20.12.07
I would like to take back anything nice I ever said about this film. I still think it's too stupid and shallow to have meant to be racist, but I now realize that it is hopelessly racist just the same. I obviously gave Sofia Coppola WAY too much credit when I said that she was accurately portraying Charlotte and Bob as racist. Mea culpa, I was completely wrong and I'm embarrassed that I didn't see the obvious.
 
  

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