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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Lost in Translation

  
  

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Elegant Mess
17:39 / 08.09.03
I've been hearing a lot of good things about "Lost in Translation", Sofia Coppola's new movie, and I had a look at the trailer earlier today, courtesy of the official site. . Admittedly, I would crawl through broken glass to watch anything with Bill Murray in it, but this actually looks really good. Appealingly melancholy, and God, Tokyo just looks gorgeous .

I see it's out very soon in the US, but the only UK date I could find for it is TBA 2004, which isn't particularly heartening. Does anyone have any idea when it might be out on this side of the pond?

Interestingly, Kevin Shields has a couple of songs on the soundtrack, a snippet from one of which you can hear on the site. Is this a new track? It's hard to be sure from the appalling quality of the stream, but it doesn't sound familiar, although it certainly sounds like My Bloody Valentine.

Also, when did Scarlett Johanssen become so... beautiful?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:43 / 08.09.03
When was she ever not beautiful?

I'll see this movie soon, probably over the weekend. But given my track record of almost never posting about movies unless I hate them, I probably won't end up writing much about it.
 
 
Elegant Mess
17:57 / 08.09.03
I dunno, Flux, I'd always thought of Scarlett Johanssen as more the "unconventionally yet undeniably attractive" type.

She looks radiant in this movie, though. Radiant, I says!
 
 
gridley
14:48 / 22.09.03
Saw it friday night. Great film. Superbly subtle. Both the dialogue and plot were a lot less stylized than I expected. But then I'm used to seeing Bill Murray in Wes Anderson films now. Bill definitely proves he can be a dramatic actor. Scarlet (who's already proven her dramatic acting ability) proves a woman can have a belly and still be be amazingly sexy. And Sophia definitely proves she's can write and direct an excellent film.

The funny thing is even though I went in excited about Kevin Shields, I barely noticed the music. The soundtrack is quite listenable though by itself....
 
 
The Strobe
15:21 / 22.09.03
Radiant you say?

Dude, for some of us, she's always been radiant. You just needed the brightness turned up more to see it.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
18:50 / 22.09.03
wonderful wonderful movie.

kevin shields contributes 4...pieces to the movie. 2 are very short incidental type of music, 1 is sort of short and sort of a song but not really, and 1, "city girl" is a full on lovely pop song that is reminscent of some of the You Made Me Realise -era MBV tracks.

So, not a full fledged comeback, but welcome nonetheless.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
17:00 / 30.09.03
It's not showing anywhere here in London, Ontario.

Foust wept.
 
 
MojoJojo
15:39 / 02.10.03
The feeling of alienation in a foreign land was conveyed fairly well, but was it necessary to portray the japanese as caricatures (in certain scene - not throughout the entire movie, to be fair) to achieve that effect?

Great to hear "Sometimes" by MBV, though I wish it would've lasted longer.
 
 
some guy
15:51 / 02.10.03
The feeling of alienation in a foreign land was conveyed fairly well, but was it necessary to portray the japanese as caricatures

Yes, in a sense. As a former ex-pat in Asia myself, I thought that Lost in Translation really nailed the feeling of the early days.
 
 
MojoJojo
16:23 / 02.10.03
It would've been interesting to see maybe a japanese character feeling the same type of alienation - even just as a background character, in a quick scene or two.

Having the japanese as super-polite smiling drones, and showing how funny they talked, just seemed a bit too simple and obvious. The jokes have been done in a lot of american films & shows before, haven't they?

Caricaturing the japanese to create a sense of gap between the main characters and the japanese might've worked to show how unconnected the two are from everything, but I just wish other methods were used.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:36 / 02.10.03
Don't you think it's totally missing the point of the film to fixate on the Japanese background characters? The film isn't about Japan, it only takes place there.

The film is focused squarely on Bob and Charlotte, it's their story, it's about them. How we see the Japanese characters and culture in the film isn't about representing Japan in the best light, it's about representing Japan as it is experienced by the two lead characters. Bob and Charlotte are extremely specific and well-drawn characters, and their experience in Tokyo is hardly meant to a typical one. Bob's a rich celebrity who is there to film ads. Charlotte's been dragged there with her successful photographer husband. She just graduated from Yale. Both are coming from a position of privelege, and it shows in how they behave throughout the film, including how they interact with the city and its people.

The jokes have been done in a lot of american films & shows before, haven't they?

Yeah, exactly. Bob and Charlotte definitely have a sense of irony. They have a sense of humor, and are both sort of amused that they recognize all of these silly stereotypes around them. Most of us would, I'm sure. If you reversed this situation and dropped two Japanese characters in the middle of NYC, I guarantee you that it would be no different, and that the recognition of stereotypes and cliche would be amusing to them as well. NYC would seem just as ridiculous and surreal as Tokyo is to Bob and Charlotte.

There's an exchange between Bob and Charlotte in the film where they both ponder the r/l thing, and they both seem kind of surprised that the stereotype is actually true, and they just wonder why the hell that is. It's not racist, it's not condescending, it's just curious and honest.
 
 
some guy
18:23 / 02.10.03
Caricaturing the japanese to create a sense of gap between the main characters and the japanese might've worked to show how unconnected the two are from everything, but I just wish other methods were used.

You can't exactly demonstrate culture shock without resorting to stereotypes. I think you're really missing the point of the film by focusing on this - a more developed Japanese character would have torpedoed the theme just as much as if the characters were more sympathetic to country life in Withnail and I.

When characters become more developed, the cultural gap lessens (Wong Kar-wai films are universal). This is why culture shock is a temporary phenomenon.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
21:54 / 02.10.03
It is a charmingly subtle movie. So many things that would have been spelled. out. word. for. word. in any big Hollywood production were all toned down, which was great. It's so rare to go to a movie where the creator(s) assume that the audience has enough intelligence to figure out the jokes without them being shoved in your face.

Case in point: as we were driving home last night, my roommate said "You know when they were in the hotel bar with that Hollywood Nightmare going on about not being anorexic, and her father's time in the Bay of Pigs? Why didn't Charlotte point out the difference between anorexia and bulimia?" And the answer is: because Coppola expects the audience to understand the difference and get the joke without having to underline everything. I loved that approach; it's so rare in cinema these days. I also loved that the slapstick, whilst being there, because, hey, this is a Bill Murray movie, was kept to a minimum. The moments it was there, like on the running machine, added to the general sense of complete alienation rather than just being a moment of light relief to counterpoint all the rest.

I really liked the end, as well. Such a non-Hollywood ending, but it was perfect. (although that particular choice of song for the closing scene and end credits almost had me in huge floods of tears, but for reasons entirely unrelated to the film. What a suckerpunch. Oy)
 
 
MojoJojo
00:49 / 03.10.03
I totally understood that the focus was on both characters' sense of dis-attachment and not about representing japan as accurately as possible. Proper represention of japan wasn't what I was focusing on while watching the movie, but rather just something I've been thinking about after watching it.

I suppose some scenes near the end of the film should convince you that this is a japan that's filtered through the point of view of the two main characters, but somehow it doesn't convince me that certain (not all) earlier scenes in the film were also filtered through the eyes of the two, or that they were alienated from the world around them.

Though if later scenes show it, shouldn't it redeem the whole thing?
Not totally sure why it doesn't work for me, in this case.

I did like the part between the old japanese woman and Bob in the hospital.

And the part where the two are karaoke-ing(sp?) with Charlotte's japanese friends.


You can't exactly demonstrate culture shock without resorting to stereotypes.

Not really sure about that. You can't demonstrate culture shock without depicting the race as some alien Other, but choosing obvious stereotypes and executing them in ways that reminded me of the way hollywood executes them, didn't translate their sense of alienation effectively (again, certain scenes. Not all).

Not saying the film's offensive or anything, just that some scenes worked, and others didn't in getting the point across.
 
 
some guy
11:11 / 03.10.03
You can't demonstrate culture shock without depicting the race as some alien Other, but choosing obvious stereotypes and executing them in ways that reminded me of the way hollywood executes them, didn't translate their sense of alienation effectively

On the other hand, as someone who spent a few years as a Western expat in Asia, I can tell you that LiT translates the feeling exactly. There was just scene after scene where you think Yes! You do focus on the stereotypes and the wacky television and the bustle because those are the things that you notice as different; as time passes these things become normalized, and the universal qualities that fly below your radar become more obvious. I was not surprised to learn that the film is in part a memoir of Coppola's own time living in a hotel in Japan. She totally nailed it.

The thing about these stereotypes is that they come from somewhere (the r/l scene again); and since the movie is about as far from Hollywood as you can get while still having any semblance of a budget, I'm really flummoxed by your statement. I guess YMMV.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
10:49 / 04.10.03
Ok, it finally came to London.

I absolutely loved the friendship between Bob and Charlotte. How often do we get to see movies where the male and female leads are friends, and not lovers? I can't think of any off hand.

It was great to see a movie that treated male/female friendship so well; they were intimate with each other, they really were - just in a differant way. They weren't "just" friends.

And Tokyo did indeed look gorgeous, and I want to marry Scarlett Johanssen.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
20:52 / 28.12.03
It just opened here, so I finally got to see it.

Just beautiful. Loved the way the visuals smeared - much more so than in The Virgin Suicides - they really communicated more about alienation, about being out of place than any amount of bewildered wandering might've. It was, as others have pointed out more subtle than expected, which was the most fabulous part. Underplaying rules.

And Bill singing "More Than This"... genius.
 
 
King Mob
23:39 / 11.01.04
First off - it's a great fucking movie, scarlett is beautiful and murray is brilliant and vice versa... but, yeah the first time i say it i was a little annoyed with some of the cheap fish-out-of-water type jokes like the short shower head. other than that neither of them spoke japapanese, they were only there for a week, and were staying in an expensive hotel where everybody would probably act exactly the same if the hotel was transplanted to new york or something (with the exception of HOME ALONE 2: LOST IN NEW YORK)... i'm sure if somebody was looking to be offended by something in it they could easily find something, but should a storyteller have to worry about the possibility of offending? ...and does anyone know if it's going to be released in japan?
 
 
rakehell
03:01 / 12.01.04
I think if they just relying on stereotypes they wouldn't have crafted the Japanese dialogue as well as they did, but some of it is really funny, esp the director yelling at Bill Murray during the ad shoot.

I thought the movie was good except they shouldn't have kissed at the end, I thought that was a bit of a cop out and audience pandering. You don't get to kiss every guy/girl you think is cute/interesting.
 
 
feverandmirrors
05:14 / 17.01.04
brilliant. fucking brilliant.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
09:16 / 17.01.04
Would you mind elaborating on that, Mr. Oberst?
 
 
foot long subbacultcha
12:25 / 17.01.04
Not sure if the kiss was as much a cop out as the indecipherable last line, but they were both quite essential. I think the movie shouldn't have ended without some kind of closure. To me that wouldn't have suited the relationship between these two characters. The "cop out" at the end allows us as viewers to participate in the movie and finish it oursleves.

I dunno if this helps but when I saw the film there were a couple of japanese women in the cinema and they had a great time laughing at the japanese dialogue. Made me wonder who missed out more, me for feeling as alienated with Bob and Charlotte's surroundings as they were, or these two women for NOT feeling removed from the unsubtitled japanese.
 
 
Harhoo
16:55 / 17.01.04
It's a really, really pleasant movie. It's not particularly ambitious, it doesn't do anything special, but it's a good use of 100 minutes. The jokes at Japanese caricatures are spectacularly unoriginal (they're short; they hand out business cards; they read violent comics on trains) but they do get plenty of laughs and help to settle the audience down for the first 30 minutes. And Bill Murray's mugging in the two whisky adverts was a madeleine biscuit back to a childhood where Ghostbusters was the greatest film evAH.

Also, to quote Anna('s friend):

Why didn't Charlotte point out the difference between anorexia and bulimia?

I took that as being indicative of the state of play of her relationship with her boyfriend. She's already been bollocked by him for picking up on the Evelyn Waugh mistake, and his reaction ("Not everybody's been to Harvard") makes it clear that it's not the first time that's happened. i think she's realising that she's in for a lifetime of biting her lip and submerging her personality if she keeps on walking the path she's on.

Two questions; what on earth was that gun in the scene where they get chased out the bar? Some sort of stun gun? Is this standard issue?

Also: why did they make Bill Murray into an action movie star? Sort of a suspension of disbelief issue there I thought.
 
 
Bear
20:39 / 19.01.04
I just finished watching and thought it was wonderful. The movie looked great but the story was just fucking top....that's what it's all about 2 people, excellent.
 
 
Simplist
23:22 / 19.01.04
I dunno, maybe it just didn't agree with my mood, but I barely made it through to the end. Like, we're lonely, disconnected, we stare pensively out windows a lot, and did I mention we stare pensively out windows? Like, a lot? Oh and aren't stupid people just... stupid? How dare they be stupid?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:39 / 20.01.04
Two questions; what on earth was that gun in the scene where they get chased out the bar? Some sort of stun gun? Is this standard issue?
I believe it's a bb gun.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
14:00 / 20.01.04
Wow.

I hadn't entirely made up my mind about this film until the end, when everything slotted in to place - firmly in the "straggeringly beautiful" section. I really feel I need to see it again for this reason. Don't get me wrong, I liked the rest of the film well enough - it is a very quiet film though (I don't think a lot of the audience were expecting that) - but it certainly had it's moments, and I was smiling throughout.

But what changed this from being "Yes, it was good" to "Wow, I have to see that again" was the last moment. The Jesus and Mary Chain have never, ever, sounded so good. I have never experienced such a rush from the cinema, a rush of emotion/adrenaline, I practically floated out of the cinema. Full of love and possiblity, it was so exciting! It also transformed what I'd always thought of as a middling Mary chain song in to something that feels fantastic.

It might seem odd for my opinion to weigh so heavily on that one moment, but it's just where everything clicked for me. Overall, of course, it is all fantastic, and full of great moments. (Touching her feet! Aw! Putting her to bed). But I felt so elated after the conclusion that I was left quite stunned.

I overheard a lot of other people leaving the film, commenting on how dissapointed and bored they'd been, and I felt sorry that they hadn't quite got the film. (I'm not just being mean "Oh, YOU just didn't get it" - I heard people say they don't think they really got it). It is a very quiet film, and it takes it's time. Essentially for me, that just further highlights the feelings the film is bringing to your attention, and I thought it was great for those reasons. But I can see it not being for everyone. But it's kinda sad to think that so many people will likely be dissapointed with this film, and probably expect something completely different from it.

I saw on Newsnight Review - before I'd seen the film - someone commenting on the importance of Bill Murray's face. I cannot even try and agree more (although I will add that maybe it will be the saviour of all mankind). This film just wouldn't work without him (echoed by what I've heard about them not wanting to do the film without him). I was pleased to see this mentioned on telly though - in relation to the end of the film being "some of the finest screen acting" I've ever witnessed. It's good to see him getting some recognition, he is a truly talented man. If he wins an Oscar, for once, I would actually be bothered.

Scarlett is beautiful. I can think of this no more, because it's vaguely sickening that someone so young and pretty can be so talented. Luckily, she manages to remind me of other people I know in this film, which makes her role even more effective for me.

A-ring-a-ding-ding.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:26 / 20.01.04
>> Scarlet (who's already proven her dramatic acting ability) proves a woman can have a belly and still be be amazingly sexy.

Does she have a belly in this movie? I didn't see/notice it. She seems in perfectly fine shape to me. She didn't look like she had an even mild gut or anything like that. She looked like a real woman, but not super-skinny.
 
 
Icicle
13:21 / 25.01.04
It's strange because this film has had a lot of good reviews but I completely despised it, hollywood arthouse that thought itself original because the two main characters didn't have sex. I still found it predictable. There were a few funny jokes but far more unfunny ones, some of the jokes simply consisted at laughing at someone because they're Japanese, which equals racism. I thought it quite a spoilt attitude to be so rich and yet, feel so sorry for yourself because you're feeling a bit 'alienated'. Why not learn a bit of Japanese, immerse yourself in the culture, otherwise just fuck off back to where you came from.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:07 / 25.01.04
Icicle, you're totally missing the point.

It seems like you wanted to see these people be the idealized versions of people in this situation, and that is not what you're getting, and THAT'S why the film is great. It's crucial that the characters are from privileged backgrounds and that they never made the effort to learn the language, and that they are sort of mystified by the Japanese people all around them. It's not uncommon, and the characters are very real. There's certainly a good chunk of autobiography in Coppola's writing, and she's just focusing on experiences and characters that she knows - people who've lived similar lives like her own. The flaws that you're focusing on aren't necessarily flaws in the film, but rather flaws that make the characters well-observed, interesting, and human.
 
 
Seth
22:05 / 25.01.04
Beautiful film. Johanssen and Murray were both beyond perfect.

What was that minimal electronic piece that was playing as Johanssen stared out of her hotel window? It sounded like Aphex Twin, and I'm sure I own it somewhere, but it'd take ages to trawl through my CDs to find it.

I have an intuition that the whispered final line exists in some sense. It may have been in the script, privately shared between the two leads and Coppola, or improvised. Don't know why I get that impression, but it seemed as though Johanssen had something concrete to play against.

Makes me want to hang out in hotel bars.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:01 / 26.01.04
I can't remember exactly - my copy of the soundtrack's at home - but there's Air and Squarepusher throughout the movie. Could it be Squarepusher, not Aphex?
 
 
Seth
09:12 / 26.01.04
Yeah, it's Squarepusher. Tommib off the Get Plastic album, to be precise. I checked the soundtrack listing on Amazon before I went to bed last night. Lovely piece, and great scoring!
 
 
Icicle
09:49 / 26.01.04
I am aware that the characters are supposed to be flawed, but for some reason it just didn't work for me. Of course people feel alienated in foreign countries but I just didn't get any enjoyment out of watching these privilaged people feeling sorry for themselves. The fact that it stems from Sofia Coppola's own experience makes the film even more unattractive to me, it seems like she's got to make a film to get over her terrible 'trauma' of being a westerner in the east.
For me the film failed because although Coppola is putting forward the two main characters as somewhat flawed she is also trying to make our sympathy's lie with them and I just couldn't do that as they were spoilt brats!
 
 
Harhoo
11:20 / 26.01.04
Why not learn a bit of Japanese, immerse yourself in the culture, otherwise just fuck off back to where you came from.

To be fair to them, they're only there for, like, a week or so. I suspect there's remarkably little Japanese you can learn on your own in that time. You're also overlooking all the scenes where she wanders through parks and temples while Air warble away merrily in the background. Her reaction to the ceremony in the temple is a pretty major factor in establishing her character.
 
  

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